From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #620 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, March 18 2002 Volume 04 : Number 620 In this issue: Who are the real robbers? Home Protection Re: FYI Re: Law against impromptu target shooting? Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #619 To regain our Freedom Re: free registration Police arrest six in shooting of airman Rash of shootings reminds public every police call is potentially fatal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:52:48 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Who are the real robbers? http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory.asp?id={6CCC61D1-9041-4F3D-9AE3-ED86DD81CFD3} Who are the real robbers? Montreal Gazette Letters to the Editor Sunday, March 17, 2002 News of Forensic Technology's IBIS system for matching spent bullets with the firearms used offers few surprises (Gazette, March 14, "More gun crimes solved: Local company's software helps police match bullets with weapons"). The system is unjustifiably expensive for Canadian law enforcement. This was explained by both the Sûreté du Québec and RCMP officials quoted in the article as being on account of such low levels of firearms crime, which make the manual method of examining bullets perfectly manageable. The mind boggles at the admission that firearms crime is so infrequent in Canada that $540,000, the cost of the IBIS system, is an unjustifiable expense. Yet, the federal government has managed to spend close to or in excess of $1 billion to license law-abiding firearm owners. It's anyone's guess how much more it is going to cost to register all those duck guns. It makes one wonder who the real robbers are. Paul Chicoine Montreal © Copyright 2002 Montreal Gazette ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:59:21 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Home Protection http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_doors.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:55:03 -0600 From: "Keith P. de Solla" Subject: Re: FYI On Thursday 14 March 2002 12:20 pm, you wrote: > On Feb. 12/02 I submitted the following to the digest (not sure > > which digest it appeared in): > >Neither myself nor my brother, both long time FAC holders in > >Manitoba, and neither of us having succumbed to the lure of > >PAL/POL's, have received the "free" registration packages in the > >mail. > > Yesterday I received the following from the CFC: > > From: Canadian Firearms Centre > > >To: "'na_ball@umanitoba.ca'" > >Subject: FW: pls send on > >Date sent: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:54:38 -0500 > > > >Your note regarding receipt of a personalized registration form > >posted in a chat group forum has been brought to our attention. > >Please call 1-800-731-4000 or reply to this e-mail to ask for forms > >to be sent, and verify the address they are to be sent to. Thanks. > > Regards, > N. A. Ball > > [Moderator's Note: Did it suddenly get colder in here?] Maybe that's why there's a backlog - everyone at CFC is busy monitoring the internet..... :-) - -- Keith P. de Solla kdesolla@shield.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:56:44 -0600 From: "Brad Thorarinson" Subject: Re: Law against impromptu target shooting? From: "Mike Swierzy" > Hi all, > > Just got off the phone with a friend who says that there's a federal law > against putting up a paper or other target and shooting in a field other than a > registered range!! > > I would like to confirm if this is true and any other particulars > pertaining to this. > > Sorry if this repeats anything that has already been posted to death in > the past; must have missed it. > > Mike Swierzy. > Your friend is wrong. Unrestricted firearms can generally be fired on private property with no restriction other than that the firing be safe. Much public property is also available eg. anyplace it is legal to hunt. Some provinces require one to get a provincial 'licence' before transporting firearms even if you have a federal firearms licence. Many municipalities also have restrictions on the types of firearms which can be used. The municipality I am in has an area along Lake Winnipeg with a lot of cottages; shotguns are permitted there but not centerfire rifles. Restricted and prohibited firearms are different. While they can be discharged anyplace it is legal to fire other firearms, you must have an ATT or other authorization to possess them at a particular location. While it is technically possible to get an ATT to fire on your buddy's hayfield, I understand these are rarely given out, mostly in cases where the nearest restricted range is far, far away. In my rural location, I could fire them out the window or door of my house as possession is authorised there by the registration certificate. NOTE: This is a brief summary and does not cover all nuances of the law. I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed as legal advice. Brad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:58:38 -0600 From: "David M" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #619 In New Zealand, civil disobedience forced the scrapping of its registry. The people didn't like it, ignored it and the government was smart enough to stop throwing money at it. - -------------------- I don't know where you got this idea from but it is not at all accurate, in fact it is the kind of inaccuracy that one expects from anti gun proponents and should not be acceptable from those on our side of the debate. The real situation in New Zealand is that the Arms Amendment Bill #2, part of which sought to reintroduce registration for rifles and to introduce, for the first time, registration for shotguns, went before a select committee. A large number of submissions were received by the committee the overwhelming majority of which opposed the universal registration of firearms (handguns are registered in NZ). The select commitee report went to government advising that registration would be costly and ineffective in accomplishing its stated aims. To date the government has sat on the report and done nothing. That does not mean registration has gone away and will not be introduced. There are several politicians with their own anti firearms agenda who are determined to see universal registration of firearms in NZ, those same individuals would like nothing better than to confiscate guns in the same way as has happened in Australia and Britain. There are many of us in NZ who will fight tooth and nail, every bit as hard and determinedly as our admirable fellow shooters in Canada have against Bill C68 to ensure that our right to the unimpeded enjoyment of our sport and interests is not lightly given away. Things may be quiet at present but the battle isn't over in fact it's probably true to say it hasn't even started yet. Regards, David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:03:54 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: To regain our Freedom Dear members of the firearm community: So you want the NRA to move in and fight our fight. I say as others have said, if we can't do this ourselves then we don't deserve our freedoms returned to us. If our freedoms were returned to us tomorrow by some stroke of luck; I am not sure Canadians could muster up enough courage to keep them anyway. The next Castro, or Musolini, or Stalin, or Hitler, or Mao, or Clinton, or Chretien to come along would only take our freedoms away again as easily as they were removed on Jan. 1, 2001. It seems that mortgages, car payments, education, stock portfolio, the finer points of life are placed above our freedoms. We should have stopped this thing last year in its tracks with non-compliance; we still can. "If we don't all hang together, we are all going to hang". I believe Ben Franklin said that one. It's still true today. Far too many are thinking of themselves only and do not want to make waves with the little tin potted dictator in Ottawa. Once we get our priorities to the point that freedom comes above all else ( like nothing is more important than freedom) then we can easily stand up, pay the price, and take them back. Back from the tyrant who holds them. The Americans must value their freedoms so much more than Canadians, they must. They fought a mean bunch for their freedoms and they are not willing to give them up. They also knew what it was like to live under the tyranny of King GeorgeIII. Canada never fought for its freedom from England it was "bestowed" upon them by a loving monarch. Until now Canada has never lived under the yoke of tyranny. How is it so far? American history is a very important subject in American schools linking it in heritage. Their hard fought freedoms ingrained into their souls they can feel it; they can see it they can taste it.. With George Washington's image looking over their classrooms they discuss Valley Forge, Bunker Hill, the Boston Tea Party, Trenton and eventually Yorktown They can feel that linkage as if they were really there. Those battlefields have been kept for rememberance forever. My point is they had to know the taste of tyranny before they could appreciate the freedoms they fought so hard to win. And they do appreciate them. Hopefully, Canadians do not have to get completely soaked to know it is raining. I received the following anonymous passage over the net a while ago so I can not vouch for its complete authenticity. It depicts sacrifices made by the American people who were fighting for their freedoms from their tyrant King GeorgeIII of England. I read over it from time to time and try to get an understanding of how it really was for freedom fighters.. Joe Gingrich Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and were tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War. They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they? Twenty four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags. Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months. John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild eyed, rabble rousing ruffians. They were soft spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes this year while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember -- freedom is never free! I hope you will show your support by please sending this to as many people as you can. It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:05:18 -0600 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Re: free registration At 12:05 PM 2002-03-17 -0600, you wrote: >Hi; >Noticed the return address on the envelope in my "free registration" >package. > >PO Box 9815 >CSC-T >Ottawa, Ontario K1G 6P9 > >Who is this??? >Cheers >Bill ('-) The PO Box belongs, I assume, to the private company in Ottawa hired to do this silly registration drive. The CSC-T portion is interesting. My personal belief, based on absolutely nothing, is that this identifies which portion of the country the offer is returned from. You can blow my theory all to hell if you live outside of BC or Alberta. "T" being the first letter of Alberta's postal code. BC got lumped in with them. So Atlantic Canada would have had a B, C or whatever one of the provinces there uses, Quebec would have a CFC-G or whatever letter is the first for the majority of postal addresses there, and so on. I hear talk that quite a few people in CFC-T territory are returning envelopes with postage due, stuffed with flyers telling them to stuff their offer. Again, just my reporting of rumors and inuendo. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:07:42 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police arrest six in shooting of airman PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : MON MAR.18,2002 PAGE : A1 CLASS : City EDITION : - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Police arrest six in shooting of airman - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Kim Guttormson Police have arrested six young men in connection with the shooting of an American serviceman early Saturday morning, and expect two 17-year-olds will be charged with attempted murder. The 20-year-old from the Minot Air Force Base was chasing a purse thief about 3:44 a.m. when he was shot five times. His companion, a 21-year-old serviceman, was beaten during the same incident. Police duty Insp. Darryl Preisentanz said the remaining accused -- a 16-year-old, an 18-year-old and two 24-year-olds -- will be charged with a variety of offences including robbery and possession of . The three juveniles and one adult have been detained in custody. The remaining two adults were released on a promise to appear in court at a later date. The victim, who was shot in the chest and leg, was in stable condition yesterday. "Everything is looking very good," Preisentanz said. Police said the two servicemen and two Winnipeg women were in a 7-Eleven on Ellice Avenue when someone told them a man was stealing a purse from their car. The men chased the suspect into the back lane of McGee Street and were confronted by a group. One of the group fired several shots at the serviceman and his friend was beaten and stabbed. Staff Sgt. Dave Thorne of Winnipeg police said the serviceman was stabbed with a sharp object, likely a beer bottle. The victim was treated in hospital and released. Thorne said the purse-snatcher was known to the men who attacked the airman. The purse and a sawed-off, .22-calibre repeater rifle were recovered. Servicemen from Minot often make the four-hour drive to Winnipeg on their leaves. The Avenue, a club on Portage Avenue, is a popular stop because of the style of music it features. "They come every week," co-owner Roger Man said of American servicemen. "I think it's the urban music, they can't get that from any of the other centres." Man said there were Americans in the bar Friday night, but doesn't know if they were Minot military. It's the second time American servicemen have been the victim of well-publicized crime in the city. In 1995, six Grand Forks servicemen were mugged by 20 youths as they left the back of Portage Place. kim.guttormson@freepress.mb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:09:26 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Rash of shootings reminds public every police call is potentially fatal PUBLICATION: The Hamilton Spectator DATE: 2002.03.18 SECTION: News PAGE: A07 SOURCE: The Hamilton Spectator BYLINE: Paul Legall PHOTO: Photo: Photos by Ron Pozzer, the Hamilton Spectator Photo:Photos by Ron Pozzer, the Hamilton Spectator ILLUSTRATION: Hamilton police BEAR unit detectives Martin Schulenberg,left standing, and George Narozniak question a man who resembles someone who is wanted. After questioning they realize he is not their man.; Detective Bob Norrie puts on his bulletproof vest before staking out a bank. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Cops can't dwell on dangers of their job; Rash of shootings reminds public every police call is potentially fatal - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Detective Bob Norrie was walking into the central police station in downtown Hamilton when he glanced up at the flag and noticed it was flying at half-mast. It was a simple kind of semaphore police officers across Canada have seen too often and had learned to dread in the past few months. It signalled another work-related death among Norrie's peers somewhere in the country. This time it was RCMP Constable Christine Diotte, 35. She was killed instantly last week when a sport-utility vehicle plowed into her parked cruiser on a slippery patch of the Trans-Canada Highway outside Banff. It was fourth time since December Norrie's workday had started with a lowered flag to mark a fallen comrade and the second time a policewoman had been killed in a car accident. Two policemen were also gunned down in routine traffic stops during this period. About two weeks ago, Montreal Constable Benoit L'Ecuyer, 29, was shot to death during a foot chase with a motorist who had initially refused to stop for a speed trap. RCMP Constable Dennis Strongquill, 52, was killed just before Christmas when he and his partner tried to stop a stolen truck near Russell, Man. On Feb. 22, RCMP Constable Mike Templeton, 30, was shot in the face when he tried to stop a stolen vehicle on the Trans-Canada near Portage la Prairie, Man. He is expected to make a full recovery from his injuries. A week ago, a 28-year-old OPP officer suffered non-life-threatening injuries in a gun battle with two occupants of a vehicle he had stopped for a routine traffic violation on Highway 401 near Morrisburg, Ont. The driver of the vehicle was killed in the gunfire. Police said the officer, who has not been identified, would have been killed, too, if he hadn't been wearing his bulletproof vest. The occupants of the car have been identified as bikers associated with the Hells Angels. In the extended police community, these incidents -- especially the shootings -- have provoked waves of anger and frustration as well as pain and sadness. Police officials have blamed what they perceive as a lax parole system and more aggressive criminals for creating an increasingly dangerous environment for cops on the street. Two of the suspects in the Strongquill shooting were parole violators from Alberta. Last week, Canadian Police Association president Grant Obst blasted the parole system for releasing dangerous criminals to the street. "For us, it's a matter of life and death," Obst said during a speech attended by Solicitor General Lawrence MacAulay. He added the "gunning down of four brother officers weighs heavily on the rank-and-file police personnel of this country." He said police on the front lines are encountering a "more assertive, aggressive criminal" and suggested the prison system coddles dangerous criminals and makes it too easy for them to get back on the street. Obst got a lengthy standing ovation from delegates at the Ottawa convention who represented 30,000 police officers from across the country. Toronto Detective Sergeant Steve McAteer -- who founded the first full-time fugitive apprehension squad in Canada -- has called for a national bounty-hunting squad to help track down more than 800 criminals who are on the lam across Canada. They include murderers, armed robbers and sex offenders who have escaped jail or jumped federal parole. McAteer helped launch the new 24-member provincial fugitive squad which goes by the acronym ROPE, for Repeat Offender Program Enforcement unit. Hamilton's Norrie is an avid newspaper reader and keenly aware of the rhetoric and posturing that followed the shootings. But he doesn't spend much time dwelling on these events as he enters his nondescript grey van for another day on the mean streets with the BEAR unit, which focuses on break-and-enters, auto theft and robbery. The squad is three years old and routinely encounters the most dangerous criminals on the street, including violent parolees who walk away from half-way houses and fugitives like the 27-year-old gunman who hid out in Hamilton after a fatal shooting in Toronto. Norrie's unit helped flush him out of an apartment building on Prospect Street. He was a violent parolee at the top of the ROPE squad's most wanted list. A large affable man, Norrie has worked the streets through most of his 29-year career. He always wanted to be a cop and still gets excited about chasing bad guys. He doesn't need anybody to remind him it's a dangerous job. In the 1980s, he had a shotgun thrust into his face during a domestic call. Fortunately, he and his partner disarmed the gunman before anybody got hurt. Norrie suggested the streets are even more dangerous today because the city is awash in crack cocaine. The substance creates desperate criminals who burgle houses, rob banks, and knock off variety stores to raise money for their next fix. The crack-addled thieves create health risks for police on the street. They're often packing used needles -- if not -- that could jab and infect officers who frisk them after an arrest. But Norrie seems cool and relaxed as he eases his vehicle into the morning traffic. He checks out criminal haunts and stakes out a pawn shop where thieves often fence stolen goods. He links up with his BEAR partners through a radio that's encrypted to block eavesdroppers. There's lots of banter as they refer to each other by code names. He's Winthorpe because he looks like the character Dan Aykroyd played in the movie Trading Places. The boss is known as Blarney because of his Irish background. Sergeant Dan Wilson goes by Harry, as in the movie cop Dirty Harry. At 56, he has three decades of police work under his gun belt and a world-weary demeanour suggesting he's seen more of the human condition than he cares to remember. He's been around so long he's now arresting grandchildren of criminals he met early in his career. The chatter on the radio gets more serious, however, when the BEAR units are dispatched to Hamilton Mountain where a young man appeared to be preparing to rob a bank. As the unmarked BEAR vehicles gathered in the parking lot and streets nearby, Blarney's lilting Irish voice broke over the radio: "Are you vested up, boys?" Norrie reflexively reached into the back of the van for his bullet-proof vest, which he Velcroed in place in a matter of seconds. With his Glock handgun strapped to his hip, he settled back behind the wheel of his van and waited for the robber to appear. It was a false alarm. The suspected robber was just someone who liked to hang around banks. Driving back to the police station, Norrie, 49, summed up his feelings about the recent panic that seems to have gripped other parts of the police community. "At the back of your mind, you know there are dangers out there. If you dwell on them, you'll go nutty. You won't be able to do your job." Of course, he's saddened by recent police deaths. "Your heart goes out to them. You think about them. You don't make light of it." Norrie believes his situation is different from the policemen who were shot because he's intimately acquainted with every nook and cranny of the turf he patrols. "I own this city. I've got a pretty good idea who is around. On the highway, it's transient." The best way to prepare for the unknown -- whether you're patrolling the back alleys or open roads -- is training and anticipation, police officials suggest. OPP Sergeant Ed Kinnear, who is vice-president of the Ontario Provincial Police association, said academies have been trying to drive home the point that there is no such thing as a routine traffic stop. Every police call is potentially fatal and you should never let your guard down. Since the shootings, Kinnear said, members of his detachment outside of Ottawa have been "patting their bulletproof vests" and making sure they've got all their equipment before going on the road. "It's close to here. The Morrisburg shooting was about 100 kilometres away," he said. "It was more of a wake up call for the public than for us. We know the job is dangerous." You can contact Paul Legall at plegall @hamiltonspectator.com or at 905-526-3385. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #620 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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