From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #628 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, March 20 2002 Volume 04 : Number 628 In this issue: Crown likens teen bullying to shootings Re: scanner Re: Coyotes Re: (no subject) New Border Regulations on Guns When Travelling to the USA My letter to Peter Hadekel Free Registration Re: [NFAMemberDigest] OPERATION PHONEBOOK nametag software re:Bowser ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:50:32 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Crown likens teen bullying to shootings I fail to see what this Crown Prosecutor's remarks have to do with this particular incident - I guess it's all about the Lieberal "vision of Canada"... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/printarticle/gam/20020319/UBULLN Crown likens teen bullying to shootings Tuesday, March 19, 2002 – Print Edition, Page A11 ABBOTSFORD, B.C. -- The Crown prosecutor in a precedent-setting criminal trial involving bullying by teenagers says the court case is pivotal in determining the kind of society Canadians want. In a wide-ranging closing address yesterday, Crown prosecutor Wendy Harvey pointed out the erosion of discipline in schools, compared to that of 1949. She drew comparisons with recent student shootings in U.S. and Alberta high schools. She urged the court to recognize parallels between the Grade 9 student who committed suicide after she had been threatened and the death of those in the New York World Trade Center because of the attacks committed by terrorists on Sept. 11. The trial is about how Canadians can live together in peace and harmony, she said. Two teenagers face criminal charges of uttering threats against a 14-year-old schoolmate, Dawn Marie Wesley, shortly before she killed herself in November, 2000. The two girls had been friends of Dawn. They were angry over a rumour about them that they believed Dawn had spread. One girl has also been charged with criminal harassment. The girls, who cannot be named under the Young Offenders Act, threatened to beat her up, court heard. One girl made a death threat. After hearing the evidence and legal arguments for five days, Provincial Court Judge C. J. Rounthwaite reserved judgment until next week. Parents, relatives and friends have attended the emotionally charged proceedings. Dawn's mother, Cindy Wesley, repeatedly broke into tears yesterday as the lawyers talked about her daughter. The court did not deal with the cause of Dawn's suicide. Rather, the five-day trial concentrated on whether the girls made threats that could be considered an offence under the Criminal Code. The Criminal Code provides for up to a five-year sentence for uttering threats. The Young Offenders Act provides guidelines to allow sentences to be reduced for minors. Bullying by teenagers has received increased attention in recent years, after a group of teens beat to death Victoria student Reena Virk. However, this case is believed to be the first time in Canada that after-school taunts have led to charges under the Criminal Code. Defence lawyer Darrel Schultz told the court that the words were blurted out in anger and frustration, and "absolutely did not mean to be taken seriously." He said the threats reflected "the ups and downs of an emotional life of a teenaged girl." Mr. Schultz said evidence at the trial indicated that girls often say they would beat someone up, but no one ever was beaten. " 'Beating up' has its own meaning," he said. "The Criminal Code sanction against uttering threats may not have been designed to deal with the school-yard taunts we're dealing with here," Mr. Schultz said. Ms. Harvey said that the words were intentional and were intended to instill fear in and intimidate Dawn. She said Mr. Schultz's comments were disrespectful to young girls who know what they say and say what they mean. "The bottom line is, the girls engaged in criminal behaviour that not only caused tremendous upset to one 14-year-old who is not here today but also to the community," Ms. Harvey said. Copyright © 2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:16:07 -0500 From: "John Poulin" Subject: Re: scanner From: "B Farion" > Does Osama have lead-lined chain mail to disguise him self while > running borders?? I wonder if Osama is already living in Canada? I know our Liberal friends would welcome him with open arms. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:41:54 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Coyotes DJ wrote: "Did I mention that due to population density, you aren't allowed to hunt with any rifle bigger than .22 rimfire? The coyotes have learned that already, and usually stay about 100 yards off..." Who makes up these rules? Last summer I fired my .22-250 at various angles at various surfaces to see if I could get it to ricochet. All shots vaporized on impact. No ricochets of any kind. I know, because I set up sheets of newsprint behind the impact area and there were no holes in it at all, only a bit of speckling from fine sand-like debris. Try that with a .22 LR and see the difference! They ricochet like hell. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:44:59 -0600 From: John Coupland Subject: Re: (no subject) I've got some old 'phone books... John Bruce Mills wrote: > > From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" > Subject: What the Animal Alliance thinks of hunters, farmers and gun owners > > Excerpt from Animal Alliance of Canada - Winter 2002 Fund Raising Letter > - --- snip --- > Hoping that you will renew your support, may I ask even more of you? Any > gift you choose to make will be greatly appreciated, but - if at all > possible - please consider becoming a monthly contributor. > - --- snip --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:46:45 -0600 From: Ron Alton Subject: New Border Regulations on Guns When Travelling to the USA The attached gives some info on the new policies coming out of the USA from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, an agency that seems to have a lot of power given the surprise attack this new policy perpetrates on all of us in the recreational firearms community-this is scary stuff as it will seriously curtail our ability to cross the border with clay target guns and hunting firearms within the law and partake in hunting and target shooting pursuits. Many questions remain to be answered-the question the guy in this mail puts forward is not answered in the response for example ,i.e. lots of us travel down I 75 through Michigan on our way to S.Ontario destinations across from Port Huron-I plan to do that this spring for the turkey hunt and later on this year for some trap shoots as I have in the past but maybe now I cannot. And as a trapshooter and hunter I need to find out if all of the trap shoots and hunts I plan to attend in the USA over the next 12 months need to be specifically approved on the permit I must acquire under this new policy or generically approved via a general letter from shooting associations such as the ATA-hopefully a generic letter accompanied with a specific shoot program with my name on it as addressee along with a membership card will be enough but this remains to be determined. The new USA policy is annual and does not provide for 5year approvals as the new Canadian law does so this means paperwork every 12months and if not complete 3 or 4 months in advance of planned shoots you could be screwed and even run the risk of having your guns confiscated at the border. Across border target shooting leagues such as our Twin Sault Trap League seem to be in serious jeopardy as it is far from clear as to what the requirements will be for us here in the Sault- at skeet league here last Sunday Jim Moore of the Chippewa Shooters Assn. of Sault Michigan (Jim and 3 of his Mi colleagues have PAL's) agreed to put forward a request for exemption for all of us in the Twin Sault Trap League but it remains to be seen whether such an exemption will be granted so we would be prudent to put forward our individual requests in the meantime and to do this we will likely need the specific dates of each and every shoot-the days of free common sense passage appear to be gone. I just got back from Florida where I did quite a lot of trap shooting at several shoots including the Southern Grand and having taken 4 guns over with me- the crossing was routine in late January with the normal checks on entry and no checks on leaving-seems I just beat the deadlines. Under the new policy it appears that I will be checked on leaving in future as well as the entry process which means that possibly I will not in future be able to sell a gun in the USA even on a trade for a new or other used gun as the policy appears to say that we must bring back whatever we take over elsewise we could be branded illegal importers-literature on the new policy has clarified that we Canadians can indeed purchase a gun in the USA within the "1998 Alien Law" so long as we do not take possession of the firearm in the USA, we have an INS-issued admission number obtained when entering the USA from the USA Customs Office, support of an export licence(not clear whether the purchaser or seller has to get this) and that we have the exemption documentation supporting the BATF permit issued ahead of our entry (ie we have to have it shipped by a USA FFL dealer to Canada wherein we would pick it up at Canada Customs, pay the requisite taxes and do whatever paperwork we have to do under Canadian law)-this seems to be the law if purchasing from an FFL dealer but it is not clear what the law is if we purchase from a private individual which is commonplace at big trap tournaments for example. Indeed the "liberal" movement seems to be taking over North America and that is very sad as I had thought that at least the USA had some common sense in these matters and that only the Canadian govt. was out to lunch-notwithstanding the disgusting aspects of C68, the Canadian law, at least our USA friends can acquire a 5year PAL which basically gives them unfettered entry for 5yrs but under the new BATF policy we Canadians seem to be under a far more rigorous annual process from here on in. I guess Sept.11th has created a paranoia that none of us could anticipate-the challenge now is to bring as much common sense to this as we possibly can-hopefully the associations that look out for our interests including the NRA, NFA, SCI, CILA, SFC, ATA, NSSA etc. will fight the good fight and get the clarifications we need and mollify the policies accordingly BUT in the meantime it will every man for himself as time if of the essence as the shoot season is upon us and the hunting seasons not far behind. The ATA has quickly responded such that ATA members can access the ATA website and follow the prompts and enter their membership data and print out an "invitation letter" that the ATA thinks will satisfy the new rules when entering the USA for ATA trap shoots-good reference material on the new BATF policies are accessible here also and recommended reading for all interested parties. The new rules being put into place to curtail "terrorists" are going to create immense obstacles to we law-abiding hunters and target shooters that accentuate bureaucratic processes and I guess that's the price we have to pay until the bureaucracies of both countries can get together and mitigate the rules so that only the "real potential terrorists" come under the gun of bureacratic rule and so that the North American fellowship that we now enjoy in the recreational shooting community will be preserved. One would think that the Free Trade Agreement would grant legitimate shooting sport citizens of both countries some leeway here but this seems to be a pipedream as there does not appear to be any route around the cumbersome permit process. As a "nonimmigrant alien" that travels via and into the USA for many such pursuits I'll be pursuing some pertinent questions on this with the USA authorities and will report on my findings. Ron. Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:34:48 -0600 From: "Nelson Dahlgren" Subject: Re: U.S. ATF Permit required? > From: "the hamgran" > Subject: U.S. ATF Permit Required? > Does anyone know if Canadians require an ATF Import Permit (or any > other = > documentation) under the new U.S. regulations, to bring their own = > firearms and ammunition through the United States in transit. > We are from southern Ontario and once a year travel to northwestern = > Ontario to moose-hunt. We like to travel through Michigan, crossing > at = > Detroit and again at Sault Ste. Marie, as the distance is less. We = > sometimes stay overnight in Michigan one night while travelling, but = > always keep our guns and ammunition locked and cased during our > journey = > through the States. Will the new regulations apply to us (even though > = > we are not hunting or trapshooting in the U.S., or obtaining firearms > or = > ammunition in the U.S.?) > I have e-mailed the U.S. government three times now, through their = > website, with no answer. (The Canadian authorities couldn't give me > an = > answer and told me to contact the U.S. authorities.) > Cathy Countryman I enquired of the ATF regarding Cowboy Action Target Shooting in Montana. The process seems involved, but is probably not that difficult. Nelson, Calgary This is a copy of their reply: Nelson, Thank you for your email to ATF. The new procedure is for a form 6 application and documentation supporting one of the exceptions. In general, nonimmigrant aliens may not receive or possess firearms or ammunition in the United States. An exception exists under 18 U.S.C. section 922(g)(5)(B), for all aliens in the United States in a nonimmigrant classification (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)) AND under 18 U.S.C. section 922(y)(2)(A) when the nonimmigrant alien is admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes: 1. a nonimmigrant alien entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event sponsored by a national, State, or local organization, devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms; or 2. a nonimmigrant alien entering the United States to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization, devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms. OR is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States. If the above situation applies, then the nonimmigrant alien must apply to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to import the firearm(s) and ammunition on the ATF Form 6 Part I application and attach to the Form 6 application, applicable documentation establishing that the alien falls within an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. Also the alien must present to the U.S. Customs Service the approved ATF Form 6 application and the applicable documentation establishing the exception or waiver, before importing or bringing a firearm or ammunition into the United States. Be advised the firearms must be removed from the territorial limits of the United States once the activity is done. You can download the Form 6 from our website at www.atf.treas.gov - - -On the left side of the home page click on forms - - -Under 5000 Regulatory Enforcement Operations & Programs click on 5300 Firearms and Ammunition Programs - - -Click on ATF F 5330.3A The time standard for processing a Form 6 application is 4-6 weeks from the date that ATF receives a correct Form 6 application. Be advised that certain firearms are not importable. These include firearms under the purview of the National Firearms Act, semi-automatic assault weapons, and large capacity magazines. Magazines capacities for rifles and handguns must be 10 rounds or less and 5 rounds or less for shotguns. You must comply with all State laws relative to your possession of the firearm as an alien. For State and local requirements, you can contact the State Attorneys General, and/or State or local police at your destination. If your firearms are importable, please be advised that Federal law provides a person, who is not prohibited by the Gun Control Act from receiving or transporting firearms, the right to transport a firearm under certain conditions, notwithstanding State or local law to the contrary. The firearms must be unloaded and in a locked trunk or, in a vehicle lacking a trunk, in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Also, the carrying and possession must be lawful at the place of origin and destination (18 U.S.C. 926A, 27 CFR 178.38.) The permit application and copious information concerning the new permit requirements is listed on our website at www.atf.treas.gov. We trust the above information will be of assistance to you. If you should have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact the Imports Branch at (202) 927-8320. Regards, FEAS Division - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:49:12 -0600 From: Michael Ackermann Subject: My letter to Peter Hadekel Peter Hadekel The Montreal Gazette Sir, I read with interest and I thank you for your recent article on abuse of police powers. This issue is nothing new to the Responsible Firearms Community (RFC) of Canada. We have been warning Canadians for years that the laws the government were passing against us were much more ominous than just an expensive and inconvenient bait and switch ploy aimed at society's safest and most productive segment (us RFC members). These laws open the door to Statist policies that impair every one of our basic inalienable human rights. If you would like more information, may I refer you to the wealth of information available at the SMSA links site at: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/Links.htm May I suggest in particular you pay close attention to the "Lethal Laws" review at: http://www.jpfo.org/L-laws.htm Rest assured we lawful shooters are not the extremist, ultra-right, white supremacist, Bambi-blasting machines we are portrayed as by our political opponents. We are people from all walks of life who just happen to enjoy the recreational use of firearms. We are also the last minority group in Canada that can be slandered and subjected to hate literature, not only with impunity, but with our government's active participation and encouragement. I wish you well in your journey of discovery through this material. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/SMSA_Web_Page.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:50:15 -0600 From: Richard Green Subject: Free Registration Bob Licacz wrote: "the CFC sent out packages to all licensed gun owners. My wife got her free offer, but no second reminder offer. Many gun owners got the original offer and a follow up reminder notice. The good ol' gang at the CFC must not like yours truly because I didn't even get one free offer. " R. Green writes: The CFC people must not be feeling warm and fuzzy about me as well. I haven't received any registration package, in spite of having held an FAC since 1978 (my current FAC remains valid) and having registered a prohibited item more than 20 years ago. In all that time my address has not changed, either. I'm just another licensed firearms owner who has gone missing from the perfect CFC data bank! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:51:24 -0600 From: awp Subject: Re: [NFAMemberDigest] OPERATION PHONEBOOK Tom wrote:-I applaud your creativity, but I am not sure what the purpose of this "simon jestor" plan is etc SNIP. Tom everyone resists a perceived wrong in their own manner ie C68, As you are aware a lot of us do write letters etc, however that does not mean our choice of paths is the only correct way to achieve our united objective the defeat of Bill C68. Should you have an understanding of logistics you must be aware that in fighting a battle the longer a supply line is stretched the more crippling the effect if the resources used for that supply line are "Attacked" in this case by draining money from the allocated budget for C68. So Operation "telephone book" serves two functions it is;- 1. A passive legal method of protest that requires a minimum of effort. 2. It drains allocated funds from the Justice department that was supposed to be used to implement C68 not be used up in administrative costs which will eventfully cause a public outcry such as the Hon J Stewart's HRD fiasco. Sincerely awp an AOB. " FREEDOM " For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:53:11 -0600 From: Christopher di Armani Subject: nametag software Hi gang, As part of another project, I needed to develop a module to generate nametags. It worked out pretty well, and I decided to break that portion out into a stand-alone module for the NFA. It's a simple thing... all it does is print nametags using the NFA logo in addition to the person's name and title. Very useful for volunteers at NFA public events and so on. Gives us a more professional look. http://dolphinsoftware.bc.ca/firearms/nametag/Setup.exe If your shooting club, fish & game club, etc wants a copy that uses their logo, please contact me off list. I just need a copy of the logo you want included. Christopher di Armani christopher@dolphinsoftware.bc.ca Apologies to Bob and gang in Edmonton for not having it in time for their show! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:55:51 -0600 From: Barry Snow Subject: re:Bowser >Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:08 -0600 >From: "Bob Lickacz" >Subject: BOWSER MEETS MR. WINCHESTER > >Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:19 -0600 >From: "Ken Kellar" > > >>>Municipal discharge regulations are set by the local municipal bylaws and >>>are specific to each municipality. This is not in the provincial domain. >> The Alberta Wildlife Act does specify that it is illegal to discharge a firearm at night. I have heard the opinion that this means only for the purpose of the Wildlife Act. Am I covered for predators under the Agricultural Pests Act? NO, but I have been told by conservation officer'S that this covers me AND for shooting gophers from my vehicle on my land. NOT! The firearms act allows these activities but ONLY where it is legal. Neat! Therefore, if the province allows the discharge of a firearm from a parked vehicle, to allow disabled persons to hunt, then it is legal (under feds. law) The provinces could change the meaning of loaded firearm this way. About twenty years ago, we (Ab) changed the definition of loaded firearm in a vehicle for safety reasons. ie: when some had detachable magazines, and some had drop out floor plates, the old 30-30 (aka '94 for those people who seem to believe that there were no 'modern' firearms in 1898) lever was an extreme disadvantage when suddenly appeared a check stop. Ammo all over the floor, magazines in pockets, and old thuty-thuty blowing holes in roofs, trannys and feet. Also, CO dodging ricochets. One Conservation Officer in Alberta told me that within the first year of changing back to no ammmo in the breach, chamber OR magazine that there had been at least one incident of AD for this reason. I was lucky enough to start and quit my hunting days during the no ammo in breech or chamber days (well except a bear last fall). Crack the 30-30 just enough to show brass below and MT breech, MT chamber and officers were happy No AD's. Barry If this will not die a graceful death, at least we can try and change the small parts.. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #628 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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