From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #630 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, March 20 2002 Volume 04 : Number 630 In this issue: Not paying enough attention DEER PROBLEMS ON THE RISE; Still at it Genoa Italy RCMP Airgun List Re: Operation Phone book and grumpy old men First Nations challenge MATH LESSON FOR GUN OWNERS RE: Natives to take deer-hunting case to Supreme Court Re: CAUCHON: "the gun registry system works well." Aboriginal hunting rights Re: Kenya: Thousands of guns to be burned ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:23:54 -0600 From: Barry Snow Subject: Not paying enough attention >Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:17:34 -0600 >From: "James J. McAllister" >Subject: Re: Operation Phonebook > >I am surprised in this surge in interest for Operation Phonebook. >It's as if this idea was born yesterday. > >It must have been at least a month ago when Bob was explaining the >operation. I have to wonder how closely folks are reading the digest. > It might even have been years ago. Yeah, that's what it was, years ago. That's the ticket. Gee, sometimes I don't read it for months. Calving now so I have a much more erratic schedule. Need to know, as required, P.R.N. whatever. Ears freeze in under 1 hour (daylight) but not enough Mother-Up time. Incubate now, mother later (wish wish). 14 deliveries last Saturday, 4 today. cheers bear ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:25:56 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: DEER PROBLEMS ON THE RISE; PUBLICATION: The London Free Press DATE: 2002.03.20 SECTION: City & region PAGE: B3 SOURCE: Free Press Reporter BYLINE: Peter Geigen-miller ILLUSTRATION: photo by London Free Press File Photo THOUSANDS: The NaturalResources Ministry estimates there are upwards of 30,000 deer in Middlesex, Oxford and Elgin counties. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- DEER PROBLEMS ON THE RISE; LARGE NUMBERS OF THE ANIMALS INEVITABLY BRING THEM INTO CONFLICT WITH HUMAN INHABITANTS OF THE REGION. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Another mild winter, another boost for the London region's booming deer population. And more deer-people troubles ahead. Southwestern Ontario's population of white-tailed deer is huge -- the Natural Resources Ministry estimates there are upwards of 30,000 deer in Middlesex, Oxford and Elgin counties alone -- and the number's growing. Large numbers inevitably bring deer into conflict with human inhabitants of the region. Last weekend, London police had to shoot an injured deer after it crawled up the embankment along the CN tracks near Hyde Park Road. In November, horrified onlookers watched as police shot a deer in southeast London after it was hit by a truck. It was another in a rising toll of deer-vehicle collisions. Huron OPP report the number of such accidents jumped from 160 in 1998 to 315 in 2000 to 277 last year. Already in 2002, the Huron detachment has recorded 44 deer-vehicle collisions, up from last year. Middlesex OPP have reported 48 deer collisions this year. Accidents are fatal for the deer and the annual vehicle damage toll runs to hundreds of thousands of dollars in Southwestern Ontario. Occasionally, drivers or passengers are injured, says Sr. Const. Shropshall of Huron OPP. As the recent mishaps show, deer are not restricted to rural areas. They're found in surprising numbers inside London, along sections of the Thames River valley and in natural areas across the city. Pud Hunter, a ministry biologist in Aylmer, says once-low deer numbers in the region have rebounded significantly. A succession of benign winters has helped deer thrive but Hunter says that's only part of the answer. Deer also flourish because of an abundant food supply, improved wildlife programs that offer deer protection from the pressures of the early 1900s and conservation programs that protect wetlands, forest and river valleys, all prime deer turf. One area of deer-human conflict is near the Sifton bog in west London, where deer have been damaging properties by, among other things, munching on gardens and shrubs. Residents have met with representatives of the city and Upper Thames River Conservation Authority, which jointly manage the bog, and the ministry to seek a population control solution. Another meeting is planned March 28. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0600 From: "rossj." Subject: Still at it > RCMP HAVE IDENTIFIED 286 TYPES OF AIR GUNS AS FIREARMS. > ACCORDING TO THE LAW, MANY AIR GUN OWNERS ARE NOW CRIMINALS. I do not know why these dunderheads are wasting even more tax money on air guns. I can think of many more useful things to do with the extra time they clearly have....like fighting crime, taking down parolees who breach conditions, stopping drug smugglers, or heaven to betsy taking down the MOB. All these require courage and fortitude and actual police work, Instead they look to see how many air guns they can put on their uselessFart disc. So many criminals...too many bureaucrats. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:58:14 -0600 From: "rossj." Subject: Genoa Italy It's a day of international protest against police brutality, not everyone's idea of a good time. This is an annual ritual, played out in hundreds of cities around the world. On one side, demonstrators, mostly young people, show up to protest against what they see as increasing police brutality, especially at anti-globalization rallies like the one in Genoa, Italy, last year where a protester was shot to death. The protester was shot in the head by one of the Carabinieri whose head was about to be turned to mush by this protester who was about to crown said carabinieri with a 20 pound fire extinguisher. The poor protester got what he deserved for trying to kill another human being. In his stupidity he paid the ultimate price ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:00:48 -0600 From: "Richard Branton" Subject: RCMP Airgun List I have some question regarding the RCMP list in regard to which air gun are considered firearms and non-firearms. Some of the air gun mentioned on the list, IE: Crosman 795 Springmaster and the Beeman fh500 are still sold by Canadian Tire as non-firearms and do not require the use of a PAL. The Daisy 853C (Use by the Army, Air & Sea Cadets) these Air gun were purchased by the CDN government to supply the Cadets with a legal shooter, now they are on the list. According to the RCMP list these are considered Firearms and require the use of a PAL. Being myself Ex-Military, I have been refused a PAL for very strange and unreasonable reasons. The firearm office in N.B. always have all kinds of reasons to refuse. I was once returned my application because of no return address. At the time I purchased the 2 above mentioned air gun (CDN version below 500 f.p.s) and manufactured 2 stocks to fit an adult (SVD type) and installed a scope to the Beeman and good iron sights to the Crosman. I invested a lot of cash for the wood and the scope and stock fixings. After calling the RCMP I was told to return these Air gun immediately or I could be charged with illegal possession. I was under the impression that these Air gun were legal to own as non-firearms seeing that they are still sold at Canadian tire and Wall-Mart to name a few. These stores do not ask for a PAL. What’s with this? Is the RCMP aware that a CDN version of these rifles exists? I have ordered a Daisy Valiant XS-40 at 490 f.p.s., from our local air gun supplier, that I have put on hold this morning. The cost of this Air gun is astronomical and I do not wish to loose a lot of cash on this purchase, if I cancel I will loose the down payment. Again the Supplier requested no PAL. I still want to shoot at paper targets and be legal with the government, force of habit. I have used a firearm almost every day for the past 34 years. R.W. Branton (Cdn Forces Ret) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:02:52 -0600 From: Paul Chicoine Subject: Re: Operation Phone book and grumpy old men Tom Zinck wrote: >Bob: >I applaud your creativity, but I am not sure what the >purpose of this "simon jestor" plan is. >The NFA has been fighting for YEARS against the >stereotype that the gun lobby is made up of "angry old >men". >This could be seen as vandalism, and abuse of Canada >Post. I am not sure what type of POSITIVE effect this >would have. >Might I suggest that we focus on letter writting by >targeting newspapers and MP's ? This has worked VERY >well over the last few years.. so well that when the >odd pro-C68 letter is puvlished that the editor >typically rebuts it for us. >Just my thoughts. >Tom A lot of people have written a lot of letters and a lot have been published and we saw that it was good. As long as people continue to write it will remain good. Unless the mass of the citizenry finally get off their flat a*sses and talk down to their MPs, editorial writing will be good but not good enough. Everyone needs to continue to do what they can. Everyone needs to encourage the citizens to stand up. Bob is talking about civil disobedience. Civil disobedience which injuries no one, which threatens no innocent bystander, which places no law enforcement officer in jeopardy. What is does however is cost and it can cost big and that might get more attention from the liberial back bench dead beats who might one day have to explain cost over runs to their flat as* constituents. If civil disobedience is breaking the law then the government is guilty of civil disobedience, they ignore their own laws and waste other's money. The opposition can consider this group to be any kind of grumpy old age, middle age or young age citizens they want. The point is this. It's a group which stands up to the government, is not afraid to speak out in public and although in legal possession of what can be dangerous items of private property when in the wrong hands this group doesn't hurt other citizens. Bob wants to send phonebooks, he wants others to send phonebooks. Let them send and do what they want. If their affiliation to NFA is a concern, it shouldn't be. At least everyone is pointed in the same direction. All organisations have personalities. Except for the governing party, mute automatons towing the party line. Men and women of compromised honour I clearly recall an episode of CPAC where you completely routed a lawyer representing Ottawa Police Services. CPAC phone lines were jammed with RFC members ready and willing to back you up every step of the way. My guess is that a lot of people were jumping as high and celebrating as much you were after that pasting . Solidarity to the n th. degree. Solidarity that is still there in need of a harness. Oh Tom, how I would enjoy to see you do that again to some other spokesthing. You were brilliant! Lets argue. But let some spokesliar pipe up and see how long it takes us to swarm. An acid test is at hand. Carlos is headed to the Supreme Court. Its time to fish or cut bait. Lets see some loonies, 2nies, fins and C notes, lets see some solidarity. DAT once wrote NFA is bigger than any single person. He was right then and its true now. The same truth holds for the entire RFC. If the soldiers are not willing to step into the breach there is no need for generals. It doesn't matter what the opposition thinks or comments about us. The only way to change that would be to lay down and surrender....and even then. ===== ____________ Paul Chicoine Illegitimi non Carborundum Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice. _________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:07:57 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: First Nations challenge It was said on the CFD: >As far as they are concerned the feds could ban "sport hunting" >and private gun ownership tomorrow and - as long as they are >exempt - they wouldn't oppose it. >Even the money for their constitutional challenges comes from >government coffers. They have no need for us whatsoever. [Beyond our financial support]. Somewhat hard to figure why the various First Nation groups have fallen for the old fed trick of retroactively re-writing old treaty laws and see a need to legitimize their position on the FA by this court action. They could choose to simply do nothing. . . and mount a legal defence if and when someone is charged. I guess if you have the bucks and you want to be thorn in the side of government this is the way to go; take the offensive. And the news media suggests a rationale. >The suit claims the law violates treaties because it requires >treaty Indians to obtain a licence, registration certificate and >authorization from the Crown before they can legally exercise >their treaty right to pursue traditional means of subsistence. >An interlocutory injunction is an "extraordinary remedy (for) . >. . extraordinary circumstances," says briefing notes for FSIN >chiefs, who approved the move in February. >"Successful interlocutory injunctions can often determine the >outcome of litigation at an early stage. . . . The defendant >could attempt to settle out of court if we were to win an >interlocutory injunction in the early stage. This would be a >huge saving in time and resources as we would not have to >proceed with the trial." And another news report indicates: >If the cards fall the FSIN's way, (Federation of Saskatchewan >Indian Nations) they won't be going to court alone. The Assembly >of First Nations (AFN), the most powerful native lobby group in >the country, is mulling over throwing in with the FSIN in its >bid to topple Ottawa's costly and controversial Firearms Act. Plus: >The Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation (SWF) has thrown its >support behind the FSIN and may come up with some money to help >pay for the protracted legal battle, said executive director >Lorne Scott. >"We will try to offer assistance wherever we can help out, >including, hopefully, from the community, even a bit >of financial support from all of us." >The SWF hopes that if the law is found to violate First Nations' >treaties and is overturned, that it will be invalid for all. >"Our belief is if one group of people in society is exempt from >Criminal Code law then theoretically everybody should be exempt >from it because Criminal Code traditionally applies equally to >everyone," Scott said. I have lobbied for this kind of joint progressive action for a long time. Is there any way the NFA, etc. along with other provincial organizations can join in this action? Would they become intervenors or remain 'silent' partners in a court action? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:17:41 -0600 From: "Bob Lickacz" Subject: MATH LESSON FOR GUN OWNERS - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Zinck" > Bob: > > I applaud your creativity, but I am not sure what the > purpose of this "simon jestor" plan is. > DOLLARS Tom, DOLLARS. There are 4 - 6 million gunowners in Canada. If each and every gunowner gets the CFC to spend a DOLLAR that is 4 - 6 million DOLLARS they don't have to spend to harass you and me. If each and every gunowner gets the CFC to spend ten DOLLARS, that is 40 - 60 million DOLLARS they don't have to spend to harass you and me. The CFC is not operating on a bottomless bucket o' cash. Any project that gets the CFC to spend money, manpower, or other resources is a project that wins this war for us. We have the power of numbers. We need to take advantage of this fact. Sooner or later the CFC will become a rotting albatross around the necks of the Liberals. Nothing would make me happier than to see those Goddamned Liberals stick a knife into the back of their little illegitimate tar baby. It would be poetic justice. > The NFA has been fighting for YEARS against the > stereotype that the gun lobby is made up of "angry old > men". > Well Tom, I'm 51 years old. I am male, and yes I'm white too. I'm sick and tired of having all those feminist cows haranging me for being what I am. On the topic of the NFA, IN SPITE OF ALL OUR COLLECTIVE BEST EFFORTS, we are a scant 9 months away from mandatory registration. My point is, if this is where our BEST EFFORTS have gotten us, maybe it is time to (a) rachet up the pressure and (b) try something different. Canadians are sheep, plain and simple. Even the "RADICAL CANADIAN GUNOWNER". Hell gunowners are so afraid of their own hides that they aren't willing to mail the CFC an old phonebook. ANONYMOUSLY. Tom, what are they going to do to YOU?? Shoot you?? Have a sniper assassinate you when you drop the dreaded phonebook in the mail box?? Tom, I've got news for you. The Canadian armed forces have only TWO SNIPERS. One of those guys is in Afghanistan, AND HE TOOK THE RIFLE WITH HIM. > This could be seen as vandalism, and abuse of Canada > Post. I am not sure what type of POSITIVE effect this > would have. > Vandalism?? We are at war with these clowns!! If you are not prepared to make 'em suffer, like they will make YOU suffer, maybe it's time you registered your guns. The up side for gunowners not willing to do ANYRTHING is that it is FREE. One gunowner at the Edmonton Boat & Sportsman's Show, told me " Yeah, but I can save myself $18.00". That is no word of a lie. "Yeah, but I can save myself $18.00". I looked the stupid $onofabitch in the eye and said "If $18.00 means that much to you, PLEASE REGISTER YOUR GUNS NOW ---- YOU'RE NOT BRIGHT ENOUGH TO BE A GUNOWNER". This was to the applause of the 20 odd people standing at the NFA table. I can tell you now the next show I work, will have a new sign. It will say: "THINGS TO DO TODAY" #1 Buy Guns. #2 Shoot Bastards. If you don't like it. Tough. Come down to the show and MAKE ME TAKE IT DOWN. Better yet, get off your ass and GIVE ME A HAND. Bob Lickacz NFA Edmonton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:19:38 -0600 From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: RE: Natives to take deer-hunting case to Supreme Court At 10:07 PM 3/19/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Jason Hayes wrote: > > > We should be working together with them wherever possible as both > > groups are in similar positions with regard to the federal > > government. You are right, the natives are only fighting for their rights as we are only fighting for our rights. We should be uniting all the groups fighting for rights and that way create a massive bloc that the Liberals dare not fight against. Gordon Hitchen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:20:35 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: CAUCHON: "the gun registry system works well." On Tue, 19 Mar 2002, Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1 wrote: > Hon. Martin Cauchon (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of > Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first of all the government is very > proud of the choice that it has made in terms of policy: proceeding > with gun registration; making sure as well that to carry sidearms in > this country will be seen as a privilege and not as a right; > including the framework to ensure we will continue to have a safe > and secure country and communities. Second, the gun registry system > works well. Of course we did proceed with it lately and we will > proceed with public works department outsourcing in order to make > sure that we keep offering the population very good services. The > licence process is over and now we are proceeding with the > registration. My god. This guy is nothing but a mindless Liberal robot. Oh look! And there's Chretien behind the curtain working the remote controls. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:23:01 -0600 From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Aboriginal hunting rights Jim Powlesland wrote: "Unfortunately the natives are only in it for themselves and they could care less about the supposed "rights" of non-native hunters and gunowners. As far as they are concerned the feds could ban "sport hunting" and private gun ownership tomorrow and - as long as they are exempt - they wouldn't oppose it." Well, Jim, much as I hate to jump on any sort of anti-native bandwagon (they have enough problems as it is), the one thing that I will criticize them for is their attitude toward hunting. Contrary to this "one with the land" myth that surrounds them, I've seen a lot of activity by unscrupulous individuals that literally cries for the equal justice they so fervently oppose. When I hunted moose near the Clova reserve outside of Parc de La Verendrye, we often wondered what happened to the abundant grouse we had seen during earlier fishing trips to the area. A local in Clova told us that the yearly drill was for them to drive up and down the roads and trails outside the reserve for a couple of weeks leading up to hunting season and kill every bird that they could find. Maybe I'm naive but I figured that paying for my license entitles me to an equal share of the game. Harder to swallow was the fact that my tax money was being used to feed these people so there wasn't really any necessity in going out and slaughtering every bird in site. When the Sparrow decision shooed every CO from prosecuting natives for game violations, the issue really took on a new light. Here were a bunch of civil servants - tasked with protecting the resource - being paid with my license fees to closely monitor my activities while totally ignoring gross violations by people who are also getting my tax dollars. When I moved to Ontario, we had a pretty good moose hunting area north of the reserve in the Espanola/Massey area. We consistently harvested moose and always saw lots of sign. One year after the Sparrow decision, things changed drastically. CO's stopped bothering natives and we saw more and more of them driving around our area. The fact that they could harvest any animal while we were restricted to a group tag for a specific gender of adult kind of blew the whole management system out of the water. Hunters started to be approached at the local hotel bar by natives offering to sell moose meat or to take them out jack-lighting. We saw all sorts of drag trails in our hunting area and heard of a trailer full of moose meat being found on the roadside nearby. News reports from nearby Manitoulin Island showed that the natives there had gotten into the wholesale deer slaughter business. The result, we stopped picking up moose tracks within 1 or 2km of the bush roads and it became rare to scare up a moose during our frequent chases through our favoured "feed hills". Now, instead of a 2:1 chance of getting a group tag in our area, the odds are worse than 10:1. I guess what blew it for me, with regard to respecting natives' unfettered rights to hunt and fish, was a W5 interview with a native who had been caught with a large quantity of walleye. Eric Mallen (I think) asked him if he really needed 2000 lbs. of walleye to feed his family. The guy just smiled and shrugged. Natives are not immune to the same kind of greed we all see. For that reason and for the integrity of our natural resources, they should be held to the same standards as us. And I don't see why someone who has spent less time in this country, and put far less money into its resources, than I have should have any special status over me. Barry Glasgow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:23:47 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Kenya: Thousands of guns to be burned "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" wrote: > NAIROBI -- The government plans to burn more than 10,000 illegal firearms to > send a message to criminals and dealers. > > President Daniel arap Moi set ablaze a huge pile of elephant tusks more than > a decade ago to show the government's seriousness in fighting poaching. By > destroying guns in a similar manner, officials hope to curb the smuggling > rings that bring weapons from neighboring countries like Somalia. I wonder how the poaching situation is in Kenya these days... ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #630 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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