From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #679 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, April 11 2002 Volume 04 : Number 679 In this issue: Surveillance cameras Land of the Free Actor with toy gun killed but charges ruled out Alliance to fight animal cruelty bill Police officer kills five in shooting rampage; Two gun thefts not related, say police ACCUMULATION_D'ERREURS_DANS_LE_REGISTRE_DES_ARMES_=C0_FEU_?= Shotgun-toting 56-year-old arrested No jail time for man who invaded woman's home I had to shoot, guard says ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:54:06 -0600 From: "Richard A. Fritze" Subject: Surveillance cameras Cameras focus on safety, privacy Paul Morse The Hamilton Spectator Another street camera committee member who is supposed to consult the public admits his mind is already made up in favour of controversial police video surveillance in the core. What's more, Gord Thompson is sure the eight-person closed circuit television (CCTV) steering committee, which has not held an official meeting, will give police the green light. "I'm confident the committee will recommend them," he said yesterday. Thompson, a downtown jeweller and pawnbroker, is the second member of the steering committee to admit his mind is already made up. The CCTV committee, whose members were chosen by police, is to consult the public through open community meetings, phone and police Web site feedback, and a random survey. It will then present its recommendation to police Chief Ken Robertson. The chief wants to put five high-tech surveillance cameras at strategic downtown intersections but has publicly promised not to install them without public input and approval. A key issue in the debate is whether cameras in public areas infringe on people's rights, as George Radwanski, Canada's privacy commissioner, argues. "I regard video surveillance of public streets by the police to be the biggest immediate privacy challenge or issue we are facing as a country," Radwanski said in a phone interview yesterday. Not only is video surveillance of public streets a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but "there is absolutely no evidence that video surveillance of public streets by the police is effective in reducing crime." On its Web site, Hamilton police have challenged critical comments Radwanski made at McMaster in February. The Web site also cites a KPMG study of Sudbury's video camera program which it says has caused downtown crime rates to drop dramatically. Radwanski said the KPMG study is deeply flawed because the statistics do not support the view that video surveillance in Sudbury reduced crime. "According to Statistics Canada, the rate of violent crime in Sudbury between 1997 and 1999 actually increased by 9 per cent in contrast to the provincial trend, which posted a 0.5 per cent decrease," Radwanski said. "The rate of property crimes decreased by 18 per cent between '97 and '99 where they had the video cameras, but by 19 per cent across the province where there were no video cameras. "All the best evidence from around the world is that the very most that video surveillance cameras do is to displace crime from where the cameras are to where the cameras are not," he said. Bernie Morelli, Ward 3 councillor and chair of the police services board, said the issue will come to the board. "I certainly will want to make sure that all opinions are inclusive," he said. "This is not an empty exercise ... I will continue to urge the police to assure that they have provided every imaginable opportunity for those who want to provide public input." You can contact Paul Morse at pmorse@hamiltonspectator.com or at 905-526-3434. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Richard A. Fritze (780) 449-3808 - Phone (780) 464-6707 - Fax www.fritze.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:55:56 -0600 From: "Randy Coombes" Subject: Land of the Free The Cincinnati Post April 10, 2002 http://www.cincypost.com/ Judges Uphold Right To Carry Hidden Guns By Kimball Perry, Post staff reporter Ohio's century-old ban against carrying concealed weapons violates the state and U.S. constitutions, a three-judge panel of the Cincinnati-based Ohio 1st District Court of Appeals ruled today. Their ruling means law-abiding Hamilton Countians can legally carry concealed weapons - at least until today's decision is appealed to the Ohio Supreme Court. ''There is no doubt that the . . . Consti tution grants citizens the right to bear arms,'' Appeals Court Judge Mark Painter said today in upholding a ruling earlier this year by a Hamilton County judge. ''They put the citizens' rights right up there and we believe they meant what they said.'' ''The court can only deal with what we have before us which is an unconstitutional law.'' Today's ruling may not take effect for some time because of appeals. ''We will be immediately asking for a stay and will file (an appeal) as soon as we possibly can,'' said Joe Case, spokesman for the Ohio Attorney Generals' office, said minutes after today's ruling was announced. They are joined in that appeal by Hamilton County and the city of Cincinnati, which believe the current law is legal. That was expected by Chuck Klein, the private investigator who was the lead plaintiff in a suit challenging the legality of the law. ''We've still got probably the (Ohio) Supreme Court to go to but we're prepared for that. It's what we asked for all along,'' he said. Klein and others sued, saying the law was opposed to the constitutional right to bear arms. In January, Hamilton County Common Pleas Court Judge Robert Ruehlman agreed and ruled the law unconstitutional. Today's ruling resulted from an appeal of Ruehlman's decision. Ohio's law requires someone to prove they need to carry a concealed weapon for their personal safety or business reasons. Called an ''affirmative defense,'' the person has to be arrested, jailed and then prove in court the weapon is needed. That's exactly what Pat Feely did. Feely drove a catering canteen truck that provided food at construction sites. He carried a gun because he had large amounts of cash on him. When he was arrested, he declined an offer from prosecutors to pay a $100 fine and hand over his gun. Instead, he challenged the law, went to court and won, providing the ammunition Klein and the others needed to file their suit. ''Think about the courage of Pat Feely,'' Bill Gustavson, Klein's attorney, said today. ''He said, 'No, that's not right.' He had the courage to risk everything.'' Gustavson believes the earlier decision by Ruehlman and today's ruling by the appeals court will withstand further challenges. ''This isn't the decision of one judge,'' he said. ''This is a rational review of a statute that has been in effect for 100 years.'' While today's ruling applies specifically to Hamilton County, Gustavson believes it quickly will spread. ''I expect to see this issue pop up all over the state now,'' he said. ''There is no mystery in this. It's clear the law is unconstitutional.'' Publication date: 04-10-02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:25:42 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Actor with toy gun killed but charges ruled out PUBLICATION GLOBE AND MAIL DATE: THU APR.11,2002 PAGE: A18 BYLINE: CLASS: International News S EDITION: National DATELINE: Los An - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Briefing Actor with toy gun killed but charges ruled out - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Los Angeles No criminal charges are to be filed against a police officer who shot and killed an actor brandishing a fake at a Halloween costume party, prosecutors said yesterday. Anthony Dwayne Lee was killed in October, 2000, while attending a party at a Bel-Air house where police were responding to a noise complaint. Prosecutors said in a report that officer Tarriel Hopper saw Mr. Lee point what looked like a .357 Magnum at him and the police officer fired nine rounds. The turned out to be a toy. Reuters ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:26:34 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Alliance to fight animal cruelty bill PUBLICATION: The Kingston Whig-Standard DATE: 2002.04.11 EDITION: Final SECTION: World PAGE: 14 BYLINE: Dennis Bueckert SOURCE: Canadian Press DATELINE: OTTAWA - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Alliance to fight animal cruelty bill - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- OTTAWA - Canadian Alliance MPs are vowing to stall the government's animal-cruelty bill as long as possible, saying it could result in criminal charges against legitimate farmers, ranchers and scientists. Practices such as branding cattle or killing lab animals could be open to challenge under the bill, critics said during third-reading debate yesterday. "Radical animal rights groups in Canada will certainly use this new legislation as the basis for legal harassment and unjust prosecutions," Alliance Justice critic Vic Toews charged. Advocates of the new law say those fears are unjustified because Crown prosecutors wouldn't make frivolous use of the law. As well, they say, updated legislation is needed. The current law dates to the 1800s. But Toews said animal rights groups want to put animal mistreatment on the same level as mistreatment of a child. "It demeans children, it demeans human beings. This is the type of philosophy that this Liberal government is asking people to accept." Alliance MP Brian Fitzpatrick said the party will put up as many speakers as it can to oppose the bill, and predicted the Liberals would have to invoke closure. "We're going to try to stall it out as long as we can," said Fitzpatrick in an interview. Animal welfare groups are livid over the Alliance stance. "It's been extremely frustrating," said Shelagh MacDonald of the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies. "It's really outrageous, the statements they're making." The legislation would provide a new source of revenue for humane societies since convicted persons could be required to pay costs incurred during investigations and in caring for rescued animals. MacDonald said there are about 250 humane societies across the country, and many of them are financially hard-pressed. The real goal of the Alliance is to score political points against -control provisions included in the same bill, said Rick Smith of the International Fund for Animal Welfare. He said charges laid under the proposed law would go through a pre-screening process, and would require the involvement of a Crown prosecutor. The bill would apply to anyone who "negligently causes unnecessary pain, suffering or injury" to an animal, or fails to provide it with adequate food, shelter, air or care. Under current animal-cruelty provisions of the Criminal Code, animals are treated as property. The new bill would define animals as vertebrates capable of feeling pain. Convictions under the bill could result in jail terms of up to five years, and fines with no maximum limit. Currently, convictions for cruelty to animals can bring six-month jail terms and fines of not more than $2000. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:27:24 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police officer kills five in shooting rampage; PUBLICATION: The Toronto Star DATE: 2002.04.11 SECTION: NEWS PAGE: A16 SOURCE: (AP) DATELINE: DOVER TOWNSHIP, N.J. ILLUSTRATION: LUTES - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Police officer kills five in shooting rampage; New Jersey veteran wounds boss before committing suicide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- A veteran police officer shot five neighbours to death, wounded his boss and then committed suicide, shocking a community still reeling from an almost identical rampage in February. Authorities said yesterday that Edward Lutes, 42, had apparently feuded with some of his neighbours in Dover Township. They did not elaborate, but a law enforcement source said that one of the victims was acquitted of sexual assaulting a member of Lutes' family. The source spoke on condition of anonymity. "There was a great deal of acrimony between Mr. Lutes and his neighbours," prosecutor Greg Sakowicz said. "Certainly, it wasn't a random shooting." Some acquaintances portrayed Lutes as the neighbourhood grouch who had gone through bankruptcy years ago and lost his girlfriend in a car accident about a year ago. Authorities said Lutes went on his rampage Tuesday night, armed with a handgun and a semiautomatic assault called an MP5. He then drove 20 kilometres down the Jersey Shore to Barnegat Township, where he wounded his boss and then shot himself in the head as he sat in his car. "It's a tragedy of the highest order," said William Polhemus, a former Seaside Heights police chief. The Dover Township shootings happened just a kilometre from where a retired Newark police officer, John Mabie, allegedly went from house-to-house, killing his granddaughter and three neighbours Feb. 21. He has pleaded innocent. "To do something like that, they snap," said Karen Picht, who decided to walk her 12-year-old daughter to a bus stop yesterday. Police said Lutes went to the home of Dominick Galliano, 51, and his wife, Gail, 49, and killed them with the assault weapon. He also killed the couple's 25-year-old son Christopher. Lutes then went to another home and killed Gary Williams, 48, and his wife, Tina, 46. The couple's 23-year-old son jumped out of a window. Lutes fled to Barnegat Township, the home of Seaside Heights Police Chief James Costello. The chief was shot in the leg and wrist as he left home to respond to the shootings. Costello was in satisfactory condition. From his hospital room, he said he could not explain the rampage: "I really don't know. He's a very close friend of mine." Dover Township Police Chief Michael Mastronardy said Lutes and a neighbour were involved in an Oct. 30 criminal mischief case. He would not give details. Lutes was a summer police officer and a volunteer firefighter before becoming a full-time police officer in 1985 with the borough of 2,000. Thomas Aballo, a lawyer who represented Lutes and his father in separate bankruptcy filings several years ago, said the shootings took him by surprise. He recalled Lutes discussing problems with a department supervisor several years ago, but said the officer did not pursue any legal action. "I never got the indication of anything but a dedicated officer and an overall good guy," Aballo said. Neighbours said Lutes lived with his 12-year-old daughter and other family members. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:28:59 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Two gun thefts not related, say police PUBLICATION: Almaguin News (Burks Falls, ON) DATE: 2002 03 27 EDITION: Final SECTION: News SOURCE: Almaguin News Two gun thefts not related, say police Emsdale: Gun thieves have struck not once - but twice - in a span of two days, stealing an undisclosed number of firearms.The break-ins took place on Tuesday and Wednesday of last week. In one instance, the entire gun case was taken. However, police are treating the break-ins as two separate incidents. As of press time, there are no suspects in either break-in. On Tuesday, March 18th, a Ryerson Township man was lured away from his home after receiving what turned out to be a bogus call from police. According to the OPP, the man received a telephone call from someone identifying themselves as Huntsville OPP. His wallet had been turned in, said the caller. Police later confirmed that the victims wallet had gone missing, or was stolen at the beginning of the month. While the man was away, his residence was broken into and a gun case, along with its contents was taken. Upon his arrival at the Huntsville OPP detachment, the victim learned that the call had never been placed by police. The following morning, a residence on Highway 592 was broken into and an undisclosed number of firearms taken. There was minor damage during the break-in. Almaguin Highlands OPP in Burk's Falls advised that the break-in occurred sometime between 7:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. The police investigation into the gun thefts is continuing and anyone who may have information is asked to contact the OPP at 1-888-310-1122, or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:25:12 -0400 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: ACCUMULATION_D'ERREURS_DANS_LE_REGISTRE_DES_ARMES_=C0_FEU_?= http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzg/Armes59.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:31:43 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Shotgun-toting 56-year-old arrested PUBLICATION: The Kingston Whig-Standard DATE: 2002.04.11 EDITION: Final SECTION: Community PAGE: 4 SOURCE: The Kingston Whig-Standard A shotgun-toting 56-year-old arrested in the rear parking lot of Napanee's OPP detachment Tuesday morning will make a first court appearance today, charged with multiple weapons offences. Kenneth Conway of Napanee was arrested at gunpoint around 10:30 a.m. when he drove onto OPP property to give himself up. At the time, the parking lot was full of officers loading rifles and equipment into their cruisers, preparing to respond to the 911 call they'd just received about Conway and his shotgun. Police were told he showed up at a home on Meadow Lane earlier that morning and got into an argument with the woman who lives there. She telephoned a male friend to come over and Conway was persuaded to leave. He's alleged to have returned, however, with his shotgun and more threats to kill the woman and her friend. That's when police say the woman called 911 and Conway left a second time, arriving about five minutes later at the OPP detachment only a short drive away. Police seized a loaded sawed-off shotgun from him along with several extra rounds of ammunition. He's been charged with making threats and with six criminal offences, including possession of an illegally altered shotgun - a prohibited weapon - and unauthorized possession of a firearm. - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:33:46 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: No jail time for man who invaded woman's home PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2002.04.11 SECTION: NovaScotia PAGE: A4 SOURCE: Staff Reporters BYLINE: Gerrie Grevatt; Ian Fairclough - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- No jail time for man who invaded woman's home - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Bridgewater - A Berwick man charged in a break-in and armed standoff in the town will spend three years on probation for illegally entering a woman's home. Judge Anne Crawford also sentenced Clarence Michael MacLeod, 47, to a pair of 12-month concurrent probation terms for careless use of a firearm and breaching a peace bond. Mr. MacLeod had been in custody since his Feb. 8 arrest and the Bridgewater provincial court judge credited the two months as part of the sentence. Mr. MacLeod pleaded guilty to the charges last month in Kentville. A kidnapping charge was dismissed at that time. In a 19-page decision, Judge Crawford acquitted Mr. MacLeod of using a firearm to commit a sexual assault, carrying a restricted weapon and two counts of uttering death threats. "This situation could have led to much more serious results," the judge said. The victim testified that on returning home from work she was confronted by Mr. MacLeod, who was armed with a handgun that accidentally fired at one point. No one was hurt. Mr. MacLeod was trying to convince the woman to break up with another man. After a series of events, Mr. MacLeod eventually surrendered in a house in another part of Berwick. Judge Crawford ordered Mr. MacLeod to get anger management counselling and to stay away from the woman and another man. She also banned him from possessing for three years and ordered him to provide a DNA sample. The judge told him he couldn't return to Kings County except to see his children. A brother living in Liverpool said Mr. MacLeod can stay with him. Mr. MacLeod told the court that if anybody had told him two months ago he'd be standing before a judge "I would have called him a liar. "I made a bad, bad decision. . . . It's one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life," he said. Crown attorney Lloyd Lombard had asked for a five- to seven-year prison term. "We're lucky this is a sentencing process and not a funeral," Mr. Lombard said. But Mr. MacLeod's lawyer, Chris Manning, said the Crown's recommendation was excessive. He said his client assured him he won't end up in court again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:36:29 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: I had to shoot, guard says PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : THU APR.11,2002 PAGE : A1 CLASS : City EDITION : - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- I had to shoot, guard says - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Bruce Owen Securicor guard Robert Long had less than a second to react when the first blast from an illegally modified shotgun whizzed by his head in front of the busy Maples Safeway last Sunday. The slug slightly burned his ear. He drew his pistol and started firing at the crouched bandit, emptying his revolver, then bolting for cover, the robber still blasting away at him. "He dictated what was going to happen," Long said in an interview yesterday. "He didn't give an option. I've gone over this a thousand times in my mind and I couldn't have done anything different. He damn near killed me." Nearby, shoppers screamed and ducked for cover as Long shot it out with the masked bandit, whom police believe is a serial robber getting increasingly trigger-happy in recent heists. Despite a combative defence by Long and his partner, the robber got a bag of cash, as he apparently has in six of the eight attempted heists to which police have linked him. Long, an armoured-car guard with Securicor for almost two years, said the brazen midday holdup outside the Jefferson Avenue Safeway was the most chilling experience of his life -- and it lasted only about 10 seconds. What has made it worse is criticism of his and his partner's actions, specifically comments by Justice Minister Gord Mackintosh and city councillors that the exchange of gunfire jeopardized public safety. As well, a senior city police officer and Securicor officials are reviewing Long's and his partner's actions to see if they were justified. The outcome may result in legislative changes that require better training for all armoured-car guards. "All of these guys can yap as much as they want, but until they're put in my boots, they should stay quiet," Long said. Long, who served 25 years with the Canadian Forces as a firefighter and paramedic, said bystanders were not at risk in the wild shootout. The gunfire was confined to a small area in front of the store, only about five metres separating Long and the masked gunman. He said that as he came out of the Safeway with a bag of money -- guards call it the "liability" -- and walked towards the armoured van, the gunman suddenly appeared at his left. "This guy didn't say anything. He just came around the corner blazing. A bystander yelled something, but by the time I turned, he was already firing. "He came at me like a real professional. He was crouched and his feet were sliding, not stepping, like you see with a SWAT team. It's like he had military training or something." Long said he thinks he hit the gunman with four of his six shots, but because the bandit was wearing body armour, he wasn't slowed down at all. One of the bandit's shots also grazed Long's bullet-proof vest. "I know I hit him, but when I ran out of bullets, I was heading south." Long said that after he ducked for cover, the gunman continued shooting at him, even walking past the bag of money. The married father of two children said his partner, the driver of the truck, saw what was going on and tried to use the truck to get between Long and the bandit. The gunman stopped firing, scooped up the money and ran to a stolen van he had parked in a handicapped parking spot close to the store entrance. The armoured-car driver then used it to ram the getaway van in a bid to pin it so the robber couldn't flee. This tactic is approved by armoured-car service companies. However, the damaged getaway van did speed off, driving about three blocks east to where the robber had planted a second getaway vehicle. Long said that since the shooting, he's been off work and will be allowed to return only when a psychologist believes he's emotionally ready to do so. "They want to make sure I'm not sitting in the bathroom with a gun in my mouth," he said. Police said yesterday they had no new information to release on the robbery, the eighth of its kind in Winnipeg in the last four years. Long said he believes he had sufficient training during his career. He also worked for the Brink's armoured-car service for four years. He said he'd welcome more training, but added he could have used a better weapon, such as a semi-automatic nine-millimetre pistol common among police agencies. His .38-calibre revolver holds only six rounds, while a semi-automatic pistol can hold 13 rounds -- 12 in the clip and one in the chamber. "If I had an automatic, I would've got him," Long said. "If I killed him, everything would be different. Instead, I'm being criticized. I go from a hero to a chump." He said armoured-car security companies should put more three-person crews on high-risk cash pickups and deliveries. That third person would act as a lookout, watching the flanks of the guard carrying the money. "It's to everyone's benefit," Long said. "This guy isn't going to take on two guys." He said he and other guards believe the same man is responsible for most, if not all, of the recent armoured-car robberies in Winnipeg. Police say they've come up against a brick wall in catching the bandit because he leaves no physical evidence to identify him and police informant tips have been completely useless. Also, there is no pattern to his heists, so no one can predict when he'll strike next. One police official compared him to Ken Leishman, Winnipeg's infamous "Flying Bandit", who robbed banks across Canada in the 1950s by flying to various cities. In 1966, Leishman pulled off the biggest gold robbery in Canadian history at Winnipeg International Airport. Long said the gunman's shotgun was modified so he could fire quickly and load more shells than the gun's manufacturer intended. "He had the plug out," Long said. "He got off seven rounds." Long added another problem is that armoured car services are essentially servants of their clients, called to pick up money at the store when they no longer want it at their premises. The armoured services companies run 24 hours a day, seven days a week picking up money. If its after hours or weekends, when banks are closed, the money is stored in a vault for safe keeping. He also said armoured services companies should pay their workers more money. At Brink's, a worker gets paid $8.50 after six months of service. "A guy at 7-Eleven makes that, and here I am carrying around a gun." Long said whatever the outcome of the police and company review, he believes he had no choice other than to do what he did -- otherwise he'd be dead. "I've become the scapegoat for doing my job," he said. "I'm the bad guy, and that's not right. "Everything has turned on me. They got nothing to say about the bad guy. I think the bad guy deserves some negative press too, don't you?" PHOTO bruce.owen@freepress.mb.ca ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #679 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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