From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #687 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, April 16 2002 Volume 04 : Number 687 In this issue: $3 per person RE: I had to shoot, guard says Re: $3 per person Re: operation phonebook etc.. Ontario announces contingency plan for wild turkey hunt during OPSEU strike Notice of Intention to Engage in Civil Disobedience to Bill C-68 Students face charges over staged robbery A message about NFA audit Re: $3 per person Prince Williams gets $45,000 gun AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT: The Criminal Justice System: Significant Challenges Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #686 Probably a stupid question BUT Re: Actor with toy gun killed but charges ruled out How bad can it get.... gobble-gobble, I have to ask.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:07:45 -0600 From: Barry Snow Subject: $3 per person $680,000,000 divided by 3 = 226,666,666 people. Maybe he meant per north American. One and one half billion divided by 3 is 500 million people. Sure he didn't say 30 / person? One and a half billion spent on 1.8 million firearms owners is $833 / firearms owner. They have admitted to 786 million and another contract for about 300 million for registration to come. Since the HRDC Miramichi web site disappeared right after the HRDC 'lost' close to a billion this is probably in there as well. Even the lowly, admitted amount of 786 million divided by 1.8 million firearms owners licenced is $436.66 per owner. Barry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:13:49 -0600 From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: RE: I had to shoot, guard says >It's a bloody shame that people who are provided with guns and trained >to >use them are made the scapegoats by the press and the companies they >work >for... If they aren't supposed to use the guns why don't they just >give them >pepper spray or stun guns.... What kind of a deterrence are they no >advocating.... Didn't they do that to Barney Fife???? > >I realize that there are those in this discussion group that have a >real >hardon for law enforcement but being the I spend a lot of time with >them on >both sides of the border I must say I wouldn't want to be a cop in >this >country... Here you are instructed that your gun stays in your holster >until >after there is a threat (i.e. your partner has been shot or stabbed) >otherwise you may get cited for intimidation.... In the US it's >protect >yourself at all times... > >Thanks >BW "Bear" Stephens ============ I know a fellow who worked for Universal Armored Car Company in Toronto. In a road incident, 2 guards were attacked by a man with a 40 ounce bottle of liquor. Only one of the guards had a revolver. The other had nothing. The man with the liquor bottle had knocked out the armed guard with the bottle and had broken the bottle in the process. He made noises about cutting up the other guard with the bottle. The other guard, the unarmed one, grabbed the revolver from his unconscious pal and shot the guy once in the chest, killing him. He was charged with manslaughter or murder, I forget which. The benevolent company did absolutely nothing for the guy who was charged, no support, no escort to the courthouse, no payment for attorney, nothing. When the guy showed up for a court appearance, the bottle-wielder's buddies jumped him and beat the cr@p out of him. He was eventually found not guilty. I think one of our regular readers was expert witness at the trial. If so, perhaps his memory of this incident is better than mine. This happened several years ago in Toronto. Alan Harper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:25:58 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: $3 per person Barry Snow wrote: > > $680,000,000 divided by 3 = 226,666,666 people. Maybe he meant per > north American. One and one half billion divided by 3 is 500 million > people. Sure he didn't say 30 / person? There's the problem - the wonks at the CFC can't even do basic arithmetic! Must be that "New Math" stuff... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:29:02 -0600 From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Re: operation phonebook etc.. > > So, think about where you want the parcel to go and get the address > > right. > > If they refuse it, think about where you want it sent for the return > > privilege, and get that address right. > > > > If there is no return address, and it is rejected, it winds up in the > > Undeliverable Mail Office (UMO). So, remember to use the return > > privilege > > to mail it to the address you want, if it gets rejected. ============ >What if the return address were, say, 24 Sussex Drive, Ottawa? ============ You must have a valid postal code to have a valid address. Given that a valid postal code is used, it will be sent to that address for delivery. 24 Sussex Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, would be K1A 0A3. Alan Harper SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:40:03 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Ontario announces contingency plan for wild turkey hunt during OPSEU strike http://www.newswire.ca/releases/April2002/16/c4809.html Attention News Editors: Ontario announces contingency plan for wild turkey hunt during OPSEU strike TORONTO, April 16 /CNW/ - The Ontario government is taking special measures this year to ensure qualified turkey hunters have the opportunity tohunt when the turkey season opens on April 25. Hunters with a valid hunting Outdoors Card, who can prove they have completed the Wild Turkey Certificate course, may purchase the required Small Game and Wild Turkey licences at approximately 80 licence issuers throughout southern Ontario. Hunters can call their local district office or check the Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) Web site at www.mnr.gov.on.ca to get more information on the location of licence issuers. Hunters with an expired hunting Outdoors Card would normally be able to renew through the telephone Interactive Voice Response (IVR) system and Internet, as well as at MNR district offices. However, the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) strike means these options are not available. As a result, the ministry is taking temporary steps to ensure all qualified hunters can get an Outdoors Card that will allow them to purchase the required licences to hunt wild turkey. Private licence issuers who currently sell Wild Turkey licences are now being authorized to also distribute Restricted Temporary Outdoors Cards. These temporarily replace the regular Outdoors Card and will allow hunters to purchase the required Small Game and Wild Turkey licences. The Restricted Temporary Outdoors Card, available effective April 17, will be provided free and will expire December 31, 2002. The usual fees will apply to Small Game and Wild Turkey licences. Also, hunters with an expired hunting Outdoors Card will need to prove they have completed the Wild Turkey Certificate Course in order to purchase their Wild Turkey Licence. A previous Wild Turkey Licence will also be considered proof the course has been completed. New hunters will be allowed to obtain a Restricted Temporary Outdoors Card and the required Small Game and Wild Turkey licences if they can prove they've completed both the Hunter Education Program and the Wild Turkey Certificate Course. They will also be required to produce one other piece of identification. The Restricted Temporary Outdoors Card is valid only for small game and wild turkey. Hunters wishing to enter the moose or deer draws still need to have a valid hunting Outdoors Card. Should the OPSEU strike continue, contingency plans will be developed for the 2002 moose tag draw applications deadline, set for May 15. Disponible en français For more information visit www.mnr.gov.on.ca - -30- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:52:56 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Notice of Intention to Engage in Civil Disobedience to Bill C-68 Riverview Veterinary Services Edward B. Hudson DVM MS 402 Skeena Court Saskatoon Saskatchewan S7K 4H2 1-306-242-2169 off 1-306-242-2379 hm 1-306-249-2359 fax edwardhudson@shaw.ca The Honourable Martin Cauchon Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada 284 Wellington Street Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0H8 webadmin@justice.gc.ca Dear Justice Minister, Re: Notice of Intention to Engage in Civil Disobedience to Bill C-68 This weekend I will be traveling to Consort, Alberta, for the express purpose of meeting with, and encouraging other citizens of Canada to defy Bill C-68 by refusing to register their firearms. I realize that refusing to register our firearms is considered a violation of Canadian law, but I consider Bill C-68 immoral and not worthy of our support. I also realize that encouraging other people to violate the laws of Canada is considered a criminal offense, but I regard this action as protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms as free speech and association. If you are of a contrary opinion, I would appreciate your reply so that we could make arrangements for me to be arrested at a mutually convenient time, if there is such a thing as a convenient time to be arrested. I appreciate your consideration in this matter, and look forward expectantly to your making a recommendation to Parliament to rescind Bill C-68. Firearms owners all across Canada are quite ready to assist you in drafting suitable, fair, effective laws to improve the safety of all Canadians. We deserve better than this law. Sincerely, Edward B. Hudson DVM, MS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:53:44 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: Students face charges over staged robbery http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSLaw0204/15_students-sun.html Monday, April 15, 2002 Students face charges over staged robbery By JENNIFER O'BRIEN-- Sun Media Two students who were arrested last week after staging and video-taping an apparent armed robbery for a school project are now facing several charges. London police said yesterday the students put public safety in danger by acting out a dangerous crime that was mistaken for the real thing. "Police respond to these things in emergency mode, which could put the public in danger and could put the police themselves in danger," said Staff Sgt. Dan Sprague. "There are a lot of pedestrians and traffic on the road and police are in emergency mode . . . it's dangerous." The incident occurred last Tuesday when police were called to deal with a man who was reportedly holding a woman at gunpoint in an automated bank machine lobby on Richmond Street north of Mill Street just before 5 p.m. When police arrived at the scene the trio was already gone, but officers soon caught up with them and made the arrests. That's when they discovered the individuals were making a movie, the gun was a replica and the female in the car was their friend. A security guard working near the scene said he had passed the lobby earlier and saw two males and a female -- the female was on the floor while a masked male stood over her. The other male was taping the incident with a video camera. The guard said he was not alarmed, but he said some pedestrians or drivers passing by might not have seen the video camera and called police. Sprague said it took police nearly a week to lay charges because they had to consult with the Crown about the incident. The two men, both 22, are charged with the committing a common nuisance which endangered the lives/safety of the public, possession of a weapon dangerous to public peace and using an imitation firearm to commit an indictable offence. "Putting the public in danger and having a weapon dangerous to public peace are both indictable offences," Sprague said. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:26:13 -0600 From: russelles@connect.ab.ca Subject: A message about NFA audit I would like to thank Gordon Hitchen for publishing the audit report of the NFA for us people who will not contribute money to any organization that does not have an independent analysis of the financial state and activities of an organization at a certain date. There are numerous accounting issues from the audit that I would like to bring up on this digest, but almost all of you reading my questions would not understand the justification and rational behind them, or would not really care. For simplicity, I will state the following: I will not renew my membership in the NFA UNTIL there is a STANDARD UNQUALIFIED AUDITOR'S REPORT signed by a CHARTERED ACCOUNTANT!! for each financial accounting period. As for donations to the NFA there is a special audit that encompasses such an activity and again this should come under the scope of the chartered accountant's audit FOR CHARITABLE DONATIONS. Why use a chartered accountant? They are universal across Canada. A CMA's audit would not be valid in Ontario under certain circumstances. I suggest that you current members of the NFA take my advise so that you at least could see how the money you have sent to the NFA is spent in accordance with generally accepted auditing procedures. Audits of the day to day activities of the NFA's effiency and effectivness in obtaining their stated objectives and goals can be performed by a CMA who seem to be quite capable and actually specializes at such activities. There are some individuals on this digest that like to attack one's contributions and even go as far as attacking their character and suggesting their background and behaviors. This has happened to me before. Before doing this to me and making a fool out of yourself, I suggest that you take my listed items to any accountant with a designation, and if you have a dispute contact me privately. Russell in Alberta ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:27:22 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: $3 per person On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Barry Snow wrote: > $680,000,000 divided by 3 = 226,666,666 people. Maybe he meant per > north American. One and one half billion divided by 3 is 500 > million people. Sure he didn't say 30 / person? I believe it is over time as well. That is, since 1995. $3 X 30,000,000 = 90,000,000 $90,000,000 x 7 = $630,000,000 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:29:37 -0600 From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Prince Williams gets $45,000 gun Prince William gets $45,000 gun Handmade weapon a gift from Charles CHRISTOPHER MORGAN TIMES OF LONDON LONDON The Prince of Wales has given Prince William one of the finest sporting guns in the world so that he can pursue his passion for deer hunting. The gun, costing an estimated $45,000, was handmade in Scotland, engraved with a special motif and in laid with gold. Built around a Mauser action, it is a large-bore hunting rifle of .243 calibre, a weapon designed for a skilled shot. Prince Charles is thought to have made the gift after his son started his studies at St. Andrews, Scotland. The university is about two hours' drive from the Balmoral estate, which is renowned for its deer hunting. Early last year, the prince was given the run of a four-bedroom hunting lodge near Balmoral for use as a weekend retreat while he was at St. Andrews. The prince shot his first deer at the age of 14, prompting protests from animal rights activists. He "took the stag" on at the western end of Loch Muick near Balmoral, and there were uncon firmed reports he was "blooded" having the blood of his first kill smeared on his face. The late Diana, Princess of Wales was forced to disclose that she had not fallen out with her son over his enthusiasm for deer stalking. William has also become an accomplished game shot, a passion he shares with Prince Philip, his grandfather. Last autumn, Philip hosted William and his friends for a weekend shoot at Sandringham. Through the winter, the young prince attends a number of shooting parties at different estates. His interest in shooting was also encouraged by his father. Charles once justified his love of field sports by telling students at Cambridge: "The fact that I do go hunting is not because I actually enjoy massacring other creatures. I deeply revel in nature; I really do enjoy animals as such. It is part of man's curious instinct over thousands and thousands of years to go hunting, but perhaps my breeding is wrong." That breeding has been passed on to William, who, friends say, is an excellent shot. His gun was made by Michael Lingard, a craftsman based at Friockheim, Angus, near some of the finest country homes of the Scottish aristocracy, including Glamis Castle, where the late Queen Mother grew up. Well known among collectors and sportsmen, Lingard does not advertise. His prices are a matter for negotiation, depending on the precise requirements, from type of stock to engraving. Last week Lingard said: "I am sorry, I am not able to talk about this." - -- CALGARY HERALD Sunday, April 14, 2002 p.A9 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:38:29 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT: The Criminal Justice System: Significant Challenges http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/domino/media.nsf/a70cfc882b597e2c852565bf0070f7bf/2 57c91ae3931eed785256b9c006bc1c3?OpenDocument NEWS RELEASE For release after tabling of the April 2002 Report (Expected at 2:00 p.m. on 16 April 2002) The Criminal Justice System: Significant Challenges Information gaps prevent assessment of system's effectiveness Chapter 4 Ottawa, 16 April 2002 - Major gaps in information about the criminal justice system stand in the way of a comprehensive assessment of the system's overall effectiveness, according to the Auditor General of Canada, Sheila Fraser, in her Report tabled today in Parliament. "Building and maintaining an effective criminal justice system requires reliable national information on the nature of crime, on crime trends, and on what works," noted the Auditor General. "Without such information, the government cannot be sure its initiatives are working together effectively rather than at cross-purposes." The criminal justice system is a complex network of independent but connected organizations, including police, prosecutors, courts, correctional agencies, and parole boards. It costs governments at all levels $10 billion a year. The federal government estimates that the actual cost of crime-including the cost of private security, insurance, and impacts on victims-is about $46 billion a year. The Report looks at key challenges facing the criminal justice system, such as justice issues related to youth and Aboriginal people, organized crime, victims' rights, and wrongful convictions, and the major initiatives developed to respond to them by various organizations. It focusses on main federal agencies responsible for criminal justice issues and statistics, including the Solicitor General Canada, Justice Canada, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Correctional Service Canada, the National Parole Board, and the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, a division of Statistics Canada. The Report points to the need for better co-ordination and sharing of information on crime and offenders by the agencies and institutions that make up the criminal justice system and describes the steps being taken to address this issue. The Auditor General calls for an assessment of the overall effectiveness of government efforts to reshape the criminal justice system. - - 30 - The chapter "The Criminal Justice System: Significant Challenges" is available on the Office of the Auditor General of Canada Web site (www.oag-bvg.gc.ca). It is also featured in a "Selected Highlights" video, which can be obtained by calling our Office Distribution Centre at (613) 952-0213, ext. 5000 or by fax at (613) 952-0696. Information: Geneviève Breton - Manager, Media Relations Tel.: (613) 952-0213, ext. 6292 E-mail: bretongm@oag-bvg.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:54:31 -0600 From: Gary Stier Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #686 Is a Useless Anal Opening (UAO) similar to a UFO?? Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > Re: CBC LAND & SEA Documentary > Med wrote: > > The CBC Land & Sea, by Peter Vener had a documentary about C-68, and > > was > > good enough to interview real Canadians, as well as those Useless Anal > > openings from the CFC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:55:30 -0600 From: Gary Stier Subject: Probably a stupid question BUT Just out of curiousity: Does previous military or police weapons training negate the requirement to take the PAL pre-qualifer courses for Non-restricted and Restricted Firearms? How about all the various Range Certifications/training required to get a transport permit in the pre-PAL/POL days? One would hope that thousands of rounds fired (starting w/ DCRA shooting in Cadets a very long time ago!) during all those years of slogging about w/ a C1 or C2 in my hands might count for something. Please advise and THX for the good work. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:57:21 -0600 From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: Re: Actor with toy gun killed but charges ruled out > Not to be the devils advocate here, but a Halloween party works both ways. > What if the "Gangster" thought that the cop was a fellow party goer with a > really good costume? It would seem to me that a saying bang would be a > natural (although politically incorrect) way of a fake gangster meeting a > fake cop, just like someone in a dog costume might bark at someone in a cat > costume. I do agree that in any usual circumstances a person aiming anything > at a cop should be shot, if the cop is in doubt, but I do think that the cop > here went a little too far. > > Steve Steve - My 2 cents worth: The "appropriate action" for the "Gangster" would be to see if he can convince the cop that he is totally innocent of any law-breaking. Failing that, he might try to bribe the cop into letting him get away with some criminal act. Any Gangster could probably tell you that bringing the heat down by shooting policemen, is a good way to end your criminal career. Look where the Hell's Angels got to, when those prison guards were shot. One of the basic rules of firearms is to NEVER point a gun at anything you do not intend to kill. I have handled deactivated firearms, and toy guns and could NEVER bring myself to point them at anyone. Whether the person who did the shooting was a cop, an old farmer, or a secretary on her way home from work, the appropriate response, when threatened with an act that appears to threaten your life, is to take what steps you need to, in order to save your own life. It was bad news for the "Gangster" that the "Cop" had a real firearm. Jim Szpajcher ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:58:55 -0600 From: "Bear.23 Rogers" Subject: How bad can it get.... I bought a shotgun today.... But apparently it may take me several days to get approved.. Here in Ontario they apparently laid off 54 of the 60 folks working on firearms stuff in Orillia.... Thanks BW "Bear" Stephens info@reloadersbench.com http://www.ReloadersBench.com BDX Bullets, Starline Brass, Dillon Reloading Presses and so much more - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca]On Behalf Of Bruce Mills Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 3:40 PM Subject: Ontario announces contingency plan for wild turkey hunt during OPSEU strike http://www.newswire.ca/releases/April2002/16/c4809.html Attention News Editors: Ontario announces contingency plan for wild turkey hunt during OPSEU strike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:00:33 -0600 From: "Paul Chicoine" Subject: gobble-gobble, I have to ask.. This from Bourque Newswatch: Ontario announces contingency plan for wild turkey hunt during OPSEU strike TORONTO, April 16 /CNW/ - The Ontario government is taking special measures this year to ensure qualified turkey hunters have the opportunity to hunt when the turkey season opens on April 25. Hunters with a valid hunting Outdoors Card, who can prove they have completed the Wild Turkey Certificate course, may purchase the required Small Game and Wild Turkey licences at approximately 80 licence issuers throughout southern Ontario. Hunters can call their local district office or check the Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) Web site at www.mnr.gov.on.ca to get more information on the location of licence issuers. *** I have to ask, anyone who has taken a Wild Turkey Certification Course: How much does it cost? What did you learn? Who gives the course? How long has this been going on? Do you get another plastic card to carry around in your wallet? __________ Paul Chicoine Illegitimi non Carborundum Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice. _________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V4 #687 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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