From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #28 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, September 6 2002 Volume 05 : Number 028 In this issue: Re: Representing the NFA RE: Man gets four years for shooting pizza driver Re: Canadian Firearms Action Campaign A question of semantics and perception. Re: Annual Warburg Gun Show gun show dates Fw: Gorilla Forming a new Organization. Fw: New scam Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #27 SHOT FOR NO REASON Shooting sparks bitter memories Gun shop owners' plea to feds: Help us to defend ourselves Cops fear weapons will fuel local crime upsurge RFC Ottawa: Ottawa RFC Office Proposal On the Way Condolences We're feeling unsafe in public places Don helps cons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:35:56 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Representing the NFA Paul Ryan wrote: > > It appears very much Dan that you are not only speaking on behalf of the > NFA you are trying to promote it's national services to Eduardo, who I > believe does not live in Saskatchewan. I live in Saskatoon. Dan and I discussed some of these legal matters at an RFC Saskatchewan meeting in Moose Jaw two weeks ago. I was seeking clarification on two points: 1) a local Saskatchewan resident has been charged with FA violations after shooting a neighbor's farm dog on his property, and 2) if the NFA's position regarding civil disobedience had changed. On point #1, DAT called and offered to assist the legal counsel for the accused in the dog shooting. On point #2, Dan seems not yet ready to accept civil disobedience to the FA. I am much obliged from the help offered by the NFA, but what I can not understand is the reluctance of Dan and the NFA to embrace civil disobedience. I firmly believe we are going to have to personally torpedo the C-68 Titanic to sink this slave ship. Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:38:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Ed Sieb" Subject: RE: Man gets four years for shooting pizza driver Based on that article, it's now obvious that our courts are worse than useless. > While being chased through the building, he saw one of the > would-be robbers load the gun and shoot. > > Although shot in the leg, Mr. Horne continued to run, made > it to his car and drove himself to hospital. > > He has since undergone at least six operations. > > Mr. Falls was also charged with attempting to murder Mr. > Horne and endangering his life by discharging a shotgun. But those > __charges were withdrawn by the Crown__ on Tuesday. snip > The teen, whose identity is protected under the Young > Offenders Act, had earlier pleaded guilty to __robbing the driver > and violating his probation__. snip > Mr. Downey had pleaded guilty to armed robbery for using a > shotgun to steal money from Mr. Horne. > > He pleaded not guilty to attempting to murder the driver but > guilty to __a reduced charge of aggravated assault, for which he received > a six-year concurrent sentence__. > > The __Crown withdrew a third charge of endangering Mr. Horne's > life__. > To the Liberals, of course, this means nothing. They coddle criminals, while persecuting law-abiding, middle-class Canadians, whose only desire to be protected from this Liberal-spawned mayhem. I'm totally disgusted. Ed S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:40:03 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Canadian Firearms Action Campaign Al Dorans wrote: > It needs to be clearly understood that this Campaign is a cooperative venture of > Canada's recreational firearms community. It is not the exclusive domain of any > single firearms organization, or any individual. My primary concern has been the ambitious nature of this project. The great amount of work involved does not seem to bother you. Therefore it is time for me to either support you or get out of your way. How can I help ? Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:41:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul Chicoine" Subject: A question of semantics and perception. A question of semantics and perception. In today's Montreal Gazette it is reported that there has been another attempt on the life of biker kingpin, Maurice "Mom" Boucher. According to the Gazette blurb, an inmate attempted to kill Boucher with a "zip gun". The attempt failed after the device misfired. CBC Montreal reported the attempt failed when the device misfired. The CBC characterized the device as a sort of "mini bazooka." Given this ability for overstatement I suspect the CBC would characterize an Easton 2216 as a sort of scud and a .308 as a sort of Howitzer. Along the same line. Last week a man went missing from work one evening. His body was discovered late the next day complete with several bullet holes. According to CFCF Montreal, "police are treating the cause of death as suspicious." __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice _________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:42:00 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Annual Warburg Gun Show Gordon Hitchen wrote: > FAC challenge Available. Eh ?? What is an FAC challenge ? Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:42:53 -0600 (CST) From: whornby@telusplanet.net Subject: gun show dates does anyone have a list of alberta gun shows over the next 6 to 12 months? if you do could you please reply to me at whornby@telusplanet.net. Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:01:59 -0600 (CST) From: The Jordans Subject: Fw: Gorilla A man wakes up one morning to find a gorilla on his roof. So he looks in the yellow pages and sure enough, there's an ad for "Gorilla Removers." He calls the number, and the gorilla remover says he'll be over in 30 minutes. The gorilla remover arrives, and gets out of his van. He's got a ladder, a baseball bat, a shotgun and a mean old pit bull. "What are you going to do", the homeowner asks? "I'm going to put this ladder up against the roof, then I'm going to go up there and knock the gorilla off the roof with this baseball bat. When the gorilla falls off, the pit bull is trained to grab his testicles and not let go. The gorilla will then be subdued enough for me to put him in the cage in the back of the van." He hands the shotgun to the homeowner. "What's the shotgun for?" asks the homeowner. "If the gorilla knocks me off the roof, shoot the dog!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:20:43 -0600 (CST) From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: Forming a new Organization. I recently received a copy of an email apparently from David Tomlinson that suggested Peter Kearns, myself and others should try to start a Firearms Organization! Thank you Mr. Tomlinson. Neither myself or anyone I know of is contemplating that at present but if someone were , I would certainly suggest they use your NFA designs as a template of what not to do ! While credit is undoubtedly due to your temporary success in building the NFA it is now becoming apparent this was not an altruistic effort but rather the establishment of a source of income for yourself and some close associates. This has resulted in approximately three and a half millions of dollars of NFA Members money and money donated by non NFA Members of the recreational Firearms Community being unaccounted for due to the puppet president, Mr. Hinter and the dissapeared NFA Director of Communication, Mr. Wally Butts as well as yourself refusing to have a proper accounting done as ordered by the Courts. Reports coming from the spokesman of the defunct Members Advisory Committee formed by yourself and the puppet president to stall the members inquiries, investigate the ongoing struggle by the members to get an accounting of the three and a half millions of dollars, and rewrite or effect changes in the current bylaws prior to calling an election, also Ordered by the Courts, indicate that YOU have effectively prevented this committee from performing any useful function at all. In fact you have made laughing stocks of them , expecially the Chairman, Randy Coombs, reportedly a Chartered Account and a sometimes $150.00 per hour employee of the NFA, it is rumored. No investigation has ever been conducted, no bylaws produced for the membership's perusal and neither an election or an Annual General meeting called as required by YOUR OWN written bylaws currently still in effect. In calling for others to form an alternative to the NFA you show an absolute ignorance of what is currently taking place within the Recreational Firearms Community. Many learned experienced people are working very hard to unite all the other groups into a working partnership and it is succeeding! Those smaller groups you hold in contempt vastly outnumber our own membership, Mr. Tomlinson, and there is no power struggle to gain or maintain control of them or their finances! Rather they are being encouraged to act independently in promoting ideas which if acceptable to all will be acted upon in unison in communites cross the nation, targeting local politicians etc on their own turf. For examples see the postings of Al Dorans and others appearing almost daily in this forum and others. One group is even forming local groups in each of the 301 Federal ridings, following very much the course now in vogue with Federal political Parties, with a view of promoting our side of the story at the grass roots. Large numbers of the "little" people putting in the elbow grease to help these initiatives are , or were members of the NFA. They would have worked equally as hard I am sure if the NFA had ever produced any logical, possible strategies. Indeed many actually suggested excellent ideas but were ignored at best and ostracized at worst for daring to "think" for the appointed leaders! Others merely censored off or prevented from joining NFA lists that they were paying for and still are , that were established in an effort to destroy this very forum I am writing in and you are reading! Over a hundred thousand dollars of NFA Members money was spent on that initative Sir , including computers, computer Services and Advisors etc and it failed! The largest NFA financed initive ever mounted was against a Firearms orientated readers Group and YOU failed! Even worse your $30,000.00 dollar a year "Editor" exposed the personal information of all NFA Members to anyone who wanted to look! And yet you suggest that someone as inexperienced as myself go ahead and form a Firearms Organization? At a time when you have cast serious creditability doubts on all Firearms Organizations with your actions? No Sir, we will not be doing that! Instead we are continuing to work at rebuilding YOUR NFA, into the Members Organization it was supposed to be with an audit, reformed bylaws and elections that every member will have a right to vote in! Then, and then only will the members decide if refloating the NFA is a viable option worth their hard work. Until then rest assured we are paying attention to the ideas of others, working to further them where we see them as useful, and volunteering our time and resources to continue the struggle to destroy this hateful Firearms Act. While accepting the Liberal pieces of silver to speak to the Senators later please be cognizant of the fact they have all been privately advised of the current situation of the NFA and the role yourself and Mr. Hinter are playing in it! Gordon Hitchen Director - NFA Alberta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:35:33 -0600 (CST) From: Med Subject: Fw: New scam The FBI & Treasury Departments have issued a warning for all users of ATMs (Automated Teller Machines) to be on the lookout for "New and Safer" card readers attached to the face of ATMs. These are swipe type card readers that are attached to the face or side of the standard teller machine. These have not been installed by the Bank to enhance your card's security - they are being installed after normal banking hours by individuals that are stealing your card information. After a card is passed through it, they can then duplicate your ATM card or credit card and use it to drain your finances. If you find such a reader DO NOT USE IT!! and report it to the local police immediately as the machines are often removed after only several hours of use. This scam was latest reported in Atlanta, GA. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:06:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #27 John Fullerton, shot in the head on the 5th of Sept; died at 0950 today, he never recovered consciousness. His family was by his side. The Police have told the gun store employees they would be charged if they wore guns for protection. John was my best friend of 20 years. We sat and watched the monitor turn to Zero, at 0950 hrs this morning. Mike Hargreaves. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:23:53 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: SHOT FOR NO REASON http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-06-0002.html Friday, September 6, 2002 SHOT FOR NO REASON Gun shop employee critical after robbery By ROB LAMBERTI, TORONTO SUN WOODBRIDGE -- Police have launched a dragnet for at least six bandits who fired -- without provocation -- a sawed-off shotgun during a firearms heist yesterday morning, critically injuring a gun shop employee. The 39-year-old man remains in critical condition following surgery at Sunnybrook hospital to his wound to the back of the head. A second employee suffered minor injuries to a wrist from pellets in the 10:25 a.m. theft of between 75 and 85 handguns from Ontario Sporting Supplies on Hwy. 7, near Hwy. 400. York Regional Police have assigned four homicide detectives to the case, as well as its holdup unit. Toronto's holdup squad has also joined in the hunt for the vicious bandits. COOPERATING WITH BANDITS Insp. Dennis Mulholland said the three employees had been cooperating with the gang of at least six bandits. "The store was open," Mulholland said. "Apparently, the employees were cooperative. As to why he shot, I don't know. "It would appear they were in there, were very excited and fired for no reason. "Certainly it makes us nervous," Mulholland said of the stolen weapons. "There's the propensity for more homicides, more robberies. We'd like to get them located." He said the bandits smashed display cases and within minutes gathered the weapons, shot the victims and fled the scene. The bandit armed with a sawed-off shotgun was described as Hispanic. The other five, including one armed with a silver handgun, were only described as non-white. A fourth man, a former employee, was in the washroom changing the diaper of his infant during the heist. Neither was injured. The bandits fled in two Dodge Caravan minivans, one green, the other maroon. The first was recovered in an underground garage on Gosford Rd., in the Jane St.-Finch Ave. area. The other was seized on Dixington Cr., in the Islington Ave. and Hwy. 401 area. One of the vans had been reported stolen. JEWELRY STORE HEISTS Police suspect some of the holdup crew that robbed the gun shop -- which police said used to be known as Ontario Auto Mart on Keele St. in Concord -- might have been involved in jewelry store heists in Etobicoke and Vaughan. An employee from a neighbouring business, who identified himself only as Tony, said he heard a ruckus in the gun shop. "It was just crashing and banging, like things falling over," he said. "Two or three times and that was it. "We called 911," Tony said. "We saw three running out. Yeah, they were armed ... they were wearing masks." He said one bandit carried a long-barrelled type of firearm. "Seventy-five? That's quite a bit," he said when told how many firearms might have been stolen in the raid. "It's kind of scary isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:24:41 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Shooting sparks bitter memories http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-06-0004.html Friday, September 6, 2002 Shooting sparks bitter memories Oshawa gun shop owner murdered in '94 By ERIN SILVER, TORONTO SUN Mike Wallace thought he'd conquered his worst nightmare, but the violent memories came rushing back yesterday with news another gun dealer had been shot in a robbery. VICIOUS PAIR Wallace, who asked that his real name not be used, was working at Oshawa's Gagnon Sports in September 1994 when two gunmen burst in and killed store owner Roger Pardy with a shot to his temple. They wounded three others before fleeing with 11 guns. Earlier in the day the thugs had carjacked and killed Ken Thomas, of Pickering, and used his car for the gun heist. Two men were later convicted of first-degree murder and attempted murder. They were sentenced to life in prison. It's a tragedy that Wallace can't forget. "I was shot at twice, but the bullets just missed my head," the Oshawa resident said yesterday. "I was in shock, but it's something I've put behind me. I handled it." Wallace said he felt "sorry for the people it happened to. I wouldn't wish it to happen to anybody." Also shocked was Roger Pardy's widow, Nathalie, who said she was too upset to comment. 'HORRIFIC CRIMES' "These were horrific crimes and they're traumatic for anyone, whether they're working in the store or buying outdoor goods," said Durham Regional Police Det.-Sgt. Shane Wasmund, who co-led the probe into the 1994 case. "These are very serious offences and these people mean business. These will be very significant criminals." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:25:14 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Gun shop owners' plea to feds: Help us to defend ourselves http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-06-0005.html Friday, September 6, 2002 Gun shop owners' plea to feds: Help us to defend ourselves By SANDIE BENITAH, TORONTO SUN Gun shop owners want the government to stop making life easy for criminals and start helping retailers protect themselves. Nick Barlas, owner of Nick's Sport Shop on Yonge and Wellesley Sts., said it's the government's tough gun control laws, not robbers, which keep him from defending himself. "They're not protecting me, they're protecting the criminals," he said. Registration laws have gotten stricter on regular gun-toting citizens since Bill C-68 was implemented in 1995. Barlas said he isn't surprised when any shop is robbed these days. Shop owners in countries like the United States, where gun control laws are much more lenient, are in a far better position to protect themselves. "If a robber knows you have a gun under your store counter, he's not gonna come in." Patricia Interdonato, owner of Giovanni's Gun Shop on Wilson Ave., agrees -- but after being robbed three times, she doesn't take any chances. Now she won't let anybody through the store's locked gated door without seeing a gun owner's licence. "Maybe they should follow my example," she said of other gun stores. David Austin, spokesman for the Canadian Firearms Association, said that shop owners are always welcome to apply for a permit that allows them to carry a gun. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:25:46 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Cops fear weapons will fuel local crime upsurge http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-06-0003.html Friday, September 6, 2002 Cops fear weapons will fuel local crime upsurge By Jonathan Kingstone It took seven months, dozens of cops and hundreds of man hours to get 474 guns off the streets -- and only minutes to put 75 back on. A senior member of Toronto's gun task force said the massive cache of weapons taken in yesterday's heist will be used to commit other violent crimes. "Every law enforcement agency in the GTA will be making this a priority," Det.-Sgt. Gary Keys said. "Seventy-five to 80 is a huge number of handguns to be out on the streets from one robbery," he said. 'TRY TO GET THEM BACK' "It only takes one gun to cause a tragedy, so when you get this sort of number it's important to try to get them back as quickly as you can." Keys, whose unit was alerted by York police shortly after the heist, said there's no doubt the "ruthless" thieves targeted the gunshop to amass weapons for other crimes. "(The guns) will be in the hands of criminals to be used for criminal purposes -- armed robberies, the drug trade, selling them to other criminals. "They won't be passing them out to proper, lawful firearm owners." Since January, officers with the gun task force have seized 474 guns and more than 84,000 rounds of ammunition and made 1,351 arrests and laid 2,610 charges. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:26:44 -0600 (CST) From: Al Dorans Subject: RFC Ottawa: Ottawa RFC Office Proposal On the Way RFC Ottawa/FED UP Canada Protecting Canadian Freedoms .............................. Dear Firearms Owner, September 6, 2002 The interest from gun owners regarding an Ottawa RFC Office has certainly been lively. Email traffic is high. Already we have received 6 offers for donations, asking where the money can be sent. One contribution was for $300. Yikes! We never even asked for any money. This is a good sign. To preserve precious energies, I am in the process of preparing "The Case for an Ottawa RFC Office." This will give gun owners and organizations a more fully developed idea of what is involved. It will expand on the letter to Fred Hoenisch "RFC Ottawa: Answering Questions About an RFC Office" that was posted on the Digest, September 2, 2002. Watch for it. After members of the RFC have had sufficient opportunity to read, study and discuss the proposal, they will be in a more fully informed position to answer an informal survey to determine what the RFC wants to do about C-68/FA. Fight or Surrender? Professor Al Dorans Director, RFC Ottawa Chairman, FED UP II Rally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:28:27 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Condolences I think it would be a wonderful gesture if each one of us sent a card of condolence to the staff at Ontario Sporting Supplies. We keep saying we're a family, and we have to support each other - I think this would be a good way to show it. Ontario Sporting Supplies 2951 Hwy 7 W Thornhill, ON, L4K 1Y9 Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:37:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: We're feeling unsafe in public places Maybe we get these feelings translated into a push for CCW, based on the theory that we are responsible for our own security... http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-06-0011.html Friday, September 6, 2002 We're feeling unsafe in public places By Rob Granatstein More than half of Canadians feel security in public places has to be heightened to keep us safe, a poll has found. The Toronto Sun/Leger Marketing poll reveals 13% of Canadians say security in places like train stations and shopping malls needs to be heightened greatly, while another 43% want it heightened somewhat. Only 39% felt security is fine as is. "A lot of Canadians do not feel safe in their everyday lives," terrorism and security expert John Thompson, director of the Mackenzie Institute, said. Ontarians were the most likely to want security increased while Quebecers were the most satisfied when it came to feeling safe in public places. The poll of 1,500 adults taken Aug. 20-26 is considered accurate within 3%, 19 times out of 20. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:50:20 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Don helps cons http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-06-0038.html Friday, September 6, 2002 Don helps cons Inmates get credit By JASON BOTCHFORD, TORONTO SUN Conditions are so bad inside the Don Jail that convicts are being credited as much as seven days for each day served at their sentencing. Lawyers say it is now customary for judges to credit Don inmates with triple time for all or part of their pre-trial custody due to "unacceptable" conditions at the Toronto prison. "I don't think a lawyer could in good conscience ask for anything less now," defence attorney Peter Bawden said. "The public has a right to know what's happening in there." Last year, defence lawyer Alana Page was the first to successfully argue for triple credit -- the norm had been double -- for clients' so-called "dead time" spent in the Don after calling in workers from the jail to testify about "horror conditions." Now most judges grant triple time based solely on the testimony of the inmate, lawyers say. LICE, VIRUSES Almost every day inmates are telling judges at sentencing hearings that they are sleeping on the floor, three to a cell. Courts have heard about rampant lice, viruses, no clothing changes, no isolation cells for inmates with tuberculosis and a lack of medical care. Page said there was one case in Newmarket in May where Justice Joseph Kenkel granted a man seven days for each day served. In his decision last year, Justice David Watt called the Don conditions "unacceptable" and things have only become worse during the past year, according to jail workers. But the provincial government isn't issuing any apologies. "It is jail," said Julia Noonan, a spokesman for the ministry of correctional services. "I'm not saying for a second inmates shouldn't be treated well, but this is jail and we are a no-frills system." ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #28 ********************************* Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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