From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #300 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, November 21 2002 Volume 05 : Number 300 In this issue: 'Tyrannical government' caused man to kill his neighbour Ont. game farmer charged under conservation law vows to fight My letter to the Editor, Saskatoon Star-Phoenix [none] RE: Column: OWNERS UNDER THE GUN =?iso-8859-1?Q?LE_PROJET_DE_LOI_LES_DROITS_DE_PROPRI=C9T=C9?= HARPER SECONDS BREITKREUZ'S PROPERTY RIGHTS BILL Further to my previous letter... RE: NOT ABOUT CONFISCATION Re: SENATE MOVES MOTION TO SPLIT C-10 (Formerly Bill C-15B) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:32:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: 'Tyrannical government' caused man to kill his neighbour PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2002.11.21 SECTION: Canada PAGE: B6 SOURCE: The Canadian Press - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- 'Tyrannical government' caused man to kill his neighbour - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Peterborough, Ont. - A man accused of murdering his neighbour told a jury Wednesday that he tried to sacrifice himself to protest the "tyrannical government forces" that put him under round-the-clock police surveillance in an effort to trick him into breaking his bail conditions. "I was martyring myself, killing myself for Canada and our country," John Hogg said in his second day of testimony in his first-degree murder trial. Hogg, 49, who is defending himself, is on trial for the Oct. 31, 2000, shooting death of his Buckhorn, Ont.-area neighbour Warren Robinson, 66, a retired psychologist. The prosecution contends Hogg had unplugged an air pump he had asked to use and when Robinson bent down to fix it, he shot him three times before turning the shotgun on himself. Working his way through a 12-page handwritten letter police seized from his home, Hogg spent the entire day telling the jury numerous anecdotes of how he became aware the government was using the police to conscript his friends and family to entrap him into breaching bail conditions stemming from a "false" firearm charge in January 2000. "This letter makes it clear that my life wasn't worth living. I couldn't go to a psychologist because everybody I knew was involved," Hogg said. The government used the police to make Hogg look like a criminal because he had embarrassed it by not filing a tax return for his Caribbean-based business since 1986 to protest its irresponsibility in not addressing the "$536-billion national debt." "(Police) used the Robinsons' as a base to come to me," Hogg said. Hogg earlier testified Robinson was shot in a "reflex action" after he shot himself on the eve of his trial for the firearms charges, but mentioned theshooting only once during an entire day of testimony. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:32:29 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Ont. game farmer charged under conservation law vows to fight DATE: 2002.11.20 CATEGORY: Quebec-Ontario regional general news PUBLICATION: cpw - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Ont. game farmer charged under conservation law vows to fight - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ORILLIA, Ont. (CP) _ A game farmer who said he has been humiliated and his business destroyed since he was charged with 31 counts of violating Ontario's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act believes he has done nothing wrong. ``I am not going to pay a penny (in fines),'' game farmer Todd Grignon said Wednesday outside a Barrie, Ont. court. ``I'll go to jail if I have to.'' Grignon, 44, raises deer, elk, and buffalo on his Coldwater, Ont., game farm. The animals are used for meat, breeding, and for controlled hunting in a wooded area of the property. At the heart of the dispute are the elk, which the government has said should not be hunted on the farm. Grignon argues the animals are his, and he should be able to harvest them just as he would any other livestock. He said a hunt farm, where animals are raised to be hunted, is a legal business and it does not deplete any species of animal, nor endanger the public. ``I am not guilty. My farm is legitimate. They are my animals. They were raised to be harvested. You would think I am a drug lord.'' Natural resources officers raided the farm last year and laid the charges. Grignon's lawyer attended a pre-trial hearing before a justice of the peace in Barrie Wednesday. A trial is scheduled for early next year. Grignon said he began farming at 18, and spent 15 years raising mink before the rise of the anti-fur movement caused him to shift into another line of business. (Orillia Packet and Times) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:32:31 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Editor, Saskatoon Star-Phoenix Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Police find large stash of guns, illicit drugs Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:46:07 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Saskatoon Star-Phoenix I must object in the strongest way possible to Sgt. Jerome Engele's description of the man wanted for possessing these guns and drugs as a "gun nut". What he is is a "criminal", plain and simple. This comment only shows the disdain that the police are adopting towards all gun owners. And if these guns were stolen, they are "illicit", too. Your newspaper's failure to properly identify these guns as such in your headline only continues to foster an anti-gun sentiment with your readership. Law abiding gun owners are fed up with being equated with, and blamed for, the criminal actions of others. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:46:29 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: [none] by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEAEB8DB2 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:18:16 -0600 (CST) (prnask01d02040155.sk.sympatico.ca [142.165.107.55]) by lancer.sasktel.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with SMTP id <0H5X00FWYS0A39@lancer.sasktel.net> for cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:17:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:22:22 -0600 From: Joe Gingrich Subject: re: SCOFF-LAWS WON'T BE HUNTED DOWN To: 'Firearms Digest' Message-id: <3DDD083D.8E696C5B@sk.sympatico.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:12:29 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Hill Subject: SCOFF-LAWS WON'T BE HUNTED DOWN snip....... About 500,000 gun owners with licenses have yet to submit forms for millions of guns -- but the feds have no plans to search for offenders. Snip....... And these are just the ones with POLs not the old FACs or PALs as according to the threat letters the POL requires a firearm to be registered by the end of the year. The other two entitle the owner to ACQUIRE a firearm anytime during the term of the lic which is five years. Maybe now it is beginning to sink in why we were telling people not to get sucked in by the CFC's offer of the cheap POL. If everyone had obtained a PAL as was suggested the CFC would not be able to send their threat letters out until near the expiration dates of the PALs. IMHO. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, N.S. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have an acquaintance with an active FAC. This person informed me on Nov.19, 2002 that they just received a letter from the CFC stating they must register at least one firearm before the end of this year. Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Your statements "Maybe now it is beginning to sink in why we were telling people not to get sucked in by the CFC's offer of the cheap POL. If everyone had obtained a PAL as was suggested the CFC would not be able to send their threat letters out until near the expiration dates of the PALs." should read people should not get sucked in by the CFC's offer of licensing and registration at all. Yours in tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox, Sask. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:46:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Bear.23 Rogers" Subject: RE: Column: OWNERS UNDER THE GUN Too bad the piece is way back in the paper... But I like it... finally an honest piece in a big paper... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca]On Behalf Of Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1 Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:54 AM Subject: Column: OWNERS UNDER THE GUN PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2002.11.21 EDITION: Final SECTION: Sports PAGE: 122 SOURCE: BY JOHN KERR COLUMN: Outdoors - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- OWNERS UNDER THE GUN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Hunting seasons are winding down, but the hassle season is starting for hunters who have yet to register their guns. The deadline to have registration certificates in hand is Jan. 1. Having sent in applications by the deadline isn't good enough says the Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC), so act quickly to get certificates before then. Taking Christmas holidays into account, there are only about four working weeks to tackle the backlog of registrations, let alone the flood of new ones coming in from tardy gun owners. And CFC application turnaround has been three to five weeks, at best. I am alarmed at the number of otherwise law-abiding gun owners I know who say they will not register their firearms, or at least not all of them, in protest of what they consider an expensive and ineffective registry. I feel the same way about it, but, like it or not, I can't condone breaking the law. And having unregistered guns after Jan. 1 is a Criminal Code offence, not a minor infraction. I reluctantly sent in applications to register my older hunting guns last month. I hope the problems I experienced, although relatively minor, aren't typical of the system, but I suspect they are. Worse mixups, such as registration certificates and licences going to the wrong people, have been reported all year. There are two ways to register, by mail or online. It costs $18 to register all your guns at once by snail mail, but there's no charge if you do it electronically through www.cfc.gc.ca If you received a personalized application last fall when the CFC was offering free mail-in registration, but didn't accept the offer, you still can use it. That's the route I chose, although it meant paying the fee. If you don't have a personalized application, you'll have to get one from the CFC by calling 1-800-731-4000. Good luck getting through. I phoned for five days in a row, but the lines were so busy that calls were not being accepted. If your firearms have serial numbers, you will be sent paper registration certificates once your applications have been processed. For guns without serial numbers, you also will be issued Firearms Identification Number (FIN) stickers to place on the receivers of your guns. It took 34 days from mailing out my applications to getting FIN stickers by return mail. Not bad, but although enclosed instructions were to match the FINs to the guns mentioned on the certificates, no certificates were included nor was there any mention of which guns the FINs belonged too. Yet, certificate numbers differing from the FINs were listed. Why the two numbers differ doesn't make sense. Hence my phoning spree to the CFC's central number. On Monday I gave up and called CFC media spokesman David Austin. He explained that registration certificates and FINs are processed at different locations, because the stickers have to be laminated for durability. He said registration certificates usually are sent out first. That's two mailings. Austin didn't know the extra cost involved, but common sense says the cost would double for stamps, envelopes, and staff to stuff them. No wonder the cost of implementing the gun registry and licensing system is heading for the $1 billion mark. Soon after I talked to Austin, a helpful staffer from the CFC called about the missing certificates. Wait a few more weeks, he said, and if they don't show up the centre will issue duplicates. Hopefully I'll get them one way or another before Jan. 1. Otherwise, along with hundreds of thousands of other honest firearm owners who simply have waited too late to register their guns, I will be considered a criminal on Jan. 1 by the federal government. Will the long-gun registry lower crime rates, as it's touted too? Unlikely. A handgun registry since the 1930s has done nothing to stop the murderous riff-raff that has been terrorizing our streets with handguns. Real criminals don't register their "pieces" or bother with niceties such as firearms licences. Hassling hunters and target shooters with long guns is just an expensive, feel-good, paperwork exercise. Scrap the registry and put the money into policing our streets and stopping the flow of illegal handguns and realcriminals into Canada. - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:46:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?LE_PROJET_DE_LOI_LES_DROITS_DE_PROPRI=C9T=C9?= http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzg/proprightsnov2102fr.htm COMMUNIQU=C9 21 novembre 2002 Pour publication imm=E9diate LE PROJET DE LOI LIMITERAIT L'APTITUDE DES LIB=C9RAUX =C0 FOULER AUX PIEDS LES DROITS DE PROPRI=C9T=C9 =ABLe projet de loi de Breitkreuz renforcerait le droit de = propri=E9t=E9 de tout un chacun dans la l=E9gislation f=E9d=E9rale=BB Ottawa - Garry Breitkreuz, porte-parole de l'Opposition officielle pour = les armes =E0 feu et les droits de propri=E9t=E9, a red=E9pos=E9 = aujourd'hui son projet de loi visant =E0 mieux prot=E9ger les droits de propri=E9t=E9 dans la = l=E9gislation f=E9d=E9rale. Stephen Harper, chef de l'Opposition officielle, a = appuy=E9 le projet de loi d'initiative parlementaire. =ABLes gens sont toujours =E9tonn=E9s quand je leur dis que leur droit = fondamental de poss=E9der des biens et de jouir des fruits de leur travail n'est = pas prot=E9g=E9 par la Charte des droits et libert=E9s=BB, a d=E9clar=E9 = Breitkreuz en justifiant son projet de loi. =ABS'ils ont des doutes l=E0-dessus, ils = n'ont qu'=E0 parler =E0 ces agriculteurs des prairies qui ont essay=E9 de = vendre leur propre grain.=BB =ABLes Lib=E9raux pr=E9tendent que la D=E9claration canadienne des = droits prot=E8ge amplement les droits de propri=E9t=E9 dans la l=E9gislation = f=E9d=E9rale, mais les tribunaux ont statu=E9 =E0 maintes reprises qu'il n'en =E9tait rien=BB, = a lanc=E9 Breitkreuz. =ABEntre-temps, au Parlement, les Lib=E9raux continuent de = s'en prendre, projet de loi par projet de loi, =E0 notre droit de = propri=E9t=E9 et de jouissance de nos biens.=BB Breitkreuz donne quelques exemples =E0 l'appui de sa position : Le projet de loi lib=E9ral sur les esp=E8ces en p=E9ril ne d=E9dommage = pas pleinement les propri=E9taires dont les terres sont retir=E9es de la = production lorsqu'on y trouve une esp=E8ce en voie de disparition. Le projet de loi lib=E9ral de modification du Code criminel en = mati=E8re de cruaut=E9 envers les animaux risque d'avoir des r=E9percussions = n=E9fastes sur beaucoup d'honn=EAtes agriculteurs, =E9leveurs, trappeurs, pourvoyeurs, = etc. Mais il ne pr=E9voit pas la possibilit=E9 de d=E9dommager les = entreprises qui d=E9pendent des animaux des pertes qu'elles subissent =E0 cause de ce = projet de loi mal con=E7u. La Loi sur la Commission canadienne du bl=E9 des Lib=E9raux a pour = r=E9sultat que des agriculteurs des prairies sont emprisonn=E9s pour avoir vendu le = grain qu'ils produisent sur leur propre terre. Les agriculteurs des autres provinces ont le droit de vendre leur propre production, pourquoi les agriculteurs des prairies ne l'auraient-ils pas? La Loi sur les armes =E0 feu des Lib=E9raux a interdit plus de 500 000 = armes =E0 feu l=E9galement enregistr=E9es sans pr=E9voir de d=E9dommagement pour = leurs propri=E9taires au titre de la valeur perdue ou lorsqu'elles leur sont carr=E9ment confisqu=E9es. Voici ce qu'on pouvait lire dans un = =E9ditorial de Southam News le 10 janvier 2002 : =ABCeux qui appuient cette mesure = parce qu'ils sont contre les armes =E0 feu devraient songer =E0 ceci : = Lorsque les gens sont d'accord pour que le gouvernement fasse main basse sur des = biens qu'ils n'aiment pas, il leur est plus difficile ensuite de l'emp=EAcher = de faire main basse sur les leurs.=BB =ABOn n'annule pas les libert=E9s civiles sans motif grave=BB, a = d=E9clar=E9 le solliciteur g=E9n=E9ral Wayne Easter =E0 la Chambre des communes le 19 = novembre 2002. =ABO=F9 avait-il la t=EAte lorsqu'il a vot=E9 en faveur des = quatre projets de loi gouvernementaux que je viens de citer?=BB a demand=E9 Breitkreuz. =ABCroyait-il que les droits de propri=E9t=E9 n'=E9taient pas une = libert=E9 civile? Les Lib=E9raux ont-ils peur de faire adopter leurs projets de loi = n=E9fastes aux droits de propri=E9t=E9 par une majorit=E9 des deux tiers de la Chambre = comme c'est le cas de mon projet de loi.=BB =ABM=EAme si notre parti pr=E9conise l'inclusion des droits de = propri=E9t=E9 dans la Charte des droits et libert=E9s, nous continuerons de favoriser toutes = les mesures l=E9gislatives possibles pour renforcer la protection des = droits de propri=E9t=E9 dans la l=E9gislation f=E9d=E9rale. Le Canada est la = seule d=E9mocratie moderne qui n'inclut pas les droits de propri=E9t=E9 dans sa = constitution. Ce projet de loi est un premier pas en vue de rem=E9dier =E0 cette lacune = =BB, a conclu Breitkreuz. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:46:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: HARPER SECONDS BREITKREUZ'S PROPERTY RIGHTS BILL http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/proprightsnov2102.htm NEWS RELEASE November 21, 2002 For Immediate Release BILL WOULD LIMIT LIBERAL'S ABILITY TO RUN ROUGHSHOD OVER PROPERTY RIGHTS "Breitkreuz's bill would strengthen every individual's right to own and enjoy property in federal law." Ottawa - Today, Garry Breitkreuz, Official Opposition Critic for Firearms and Property Rights, re-introduced his Private Members' Bill to strengthen property rights protection in federal law. Stephen Harper, Leader of the Official Opposition seconded Breitkreuz's bill. "It always comes as a shock to people when I tell them their fundamental right to own property and enjoy the fruits of their own labour are not protected in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms," said Breitkreuz as he explained his reasons for introducing his bill. "If they have any doubts they should talk to those prairie farmers who tried to sell their own grain." "The Liberals claim that the Canadian Bill of Rights provides adequate protection of property rights in federal law, but the courts have repeatedly proven this not to be the case," reported Breitkreuz. "Meanwhile back in Parliament, the Liberals continue their attack on everyone's right to own and enjoy property in bill after bill." Breitkreuz provided a few examples to prove his point: The Liberal's Species at Risk legislation fails to provide full compensation for landowners who have their land taken out of production when an endangered species is found on their land. The Liberal's Cruelty to Animals amendments to the Criminal Code could have significant and detrimental implications for many legitimate farmers, ranchers, trappers, outfitters, etc. But there is no provision to compensate animal dependent businesses for any losses they suffer because of this poorly-worded legislation. The Liberal's Canadian Wheat Board Act has resulted in prairie farmers being jailed for selling the grain they grew on their own land. Farmers in other provinces have the right to sell their own crops, why not prairie producers? The Liberal's Firearms Act banned more than 500,000 legally-owned and registered firearms and refuses to compensate their owners for their loss in value or when they are confiscated outright. As a Southam News editorial said on January 10, 2002, "Those who support this because they disapprove of guns should consider: If you favour government authority over property that you don't like, it is harder to fend government off when it comes after yours." "We do not just cancel civil liberties without cause," said Solicitor General Wayne Easter in the House of Commons on Tuesday, November 19, 2002. "What was he thinking when he voted for the four government bills I just cited? asked Breitkreuz. "Did he think that property rights are not a civil liberty? Are the Liberals afraid to put their property rights bashing bills to a vote of a two-thirds majority of the House as my Private Members' Bill would require?" "While our party policy calls for an amendment to include property rights in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we will continue to pursue every legislative measure we can to strengthen property rights protection in federal law. Canada is the only modern democracy that does not include property rights in their constitution. This bill is a first step to correct this deficiency," concluded Breitkreuz. -30- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:47:18 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Further to my previous letter... .... a curious thing just popped up during my research regarding Toronto's gang-related murders. A July 1st Star article observed that "The drop in the number of homicides in areas such as Jane and Finch, Regent Park, St. James Town and parts of Scarborough, have contributed to the decrease in the rate this year, police say. " The article quoted homicide Detective-Sergeant Michael Davis; "There's no doubt in my mind that I think they will stay down," "If the effect of the gun task force is what we have right now, such a low homicide rate compared to last year, then I can only give credit to those people." If this is the case, should they also take credit for the recent outburst of gang killings? Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:47:19 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: RE: NOT ABOUT CONFISCATION On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Jim Pook wrote: > Also, with respect to the "Missle" confiscated in this raid - it is > nothing more than a large model rocket. I read that it wasn't even military. It was a used weather rocket. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:47:26 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: SENATE MOVES MOTION TO SPLIT C-10 (Formerly Bill C-15B) "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" wrote: > ----------------------------------------------- > NOTE: WITNESSES WISHING TO APPEAR BEFORE THE SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE = > ON > CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL AFFAIRS > For more information, please contact : > Committee Clerk: Marcy Zlotnick: (613-943-7865) > Administrative Assistant: Lyne H=E9roux (613-990-6382) > General Information: (613-990-0088) > Facsimile: (613-947-2104) > Committee Email Address: leg-jur@sen.parl.gc.ca > > Mailing Address: The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and = > Constitutional > Affairs > The Senate, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0A4 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= This would seem to be an important victory, one that we have been seeking for some time. Now, can someone outline some points that we should be making in letters to the Committee members about what should be done about the Firearms Act amendments? I can't recall offhand what is wrong with it. For a list of Committee Members, see one of my web pages at: http://www.geocities.com/c_f_r_a_n/senate.legal.committee.html Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #300 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., P.O. Box 1342, Saskatoon SK S7K 3N9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered in any way.