From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #326 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, November 27 2002 Volume 05 : Number 326 In this issue: [none] .357 Load Data re Re: Why the RFC Fails to Unite: Response to Dan Lupichuk RE: Professor Dorans response to Mr. Lupichuk "Journalists Guide to Gun Violence Coverage" Fw: Praising the Liberals RCMP REGISTRAR HAS TABLED 2001 FIREARMS REPORT [none] Re: 132% error rate Re: 132% error rate Fw: The inside Story Gun for sale Re: My Letter to Michael Taube- Windsor Star MIKE BROWN Re: Why the RFC Fails to Unite: Response to Dan Lupichuk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:37:15 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: [none] Subject: Dual registration It was asked: >Does anyone have the definitive word on whether it is legal >and/or advisable to register firearms to both owners if the >firearms are jointly owned, as in by spouses? I would prefer to >not take part in the Liberal charade but the firearms are needed >for hunting. I can speak from direct, personal experience. Due to the necessity of participating in the fedGrit/provTory/CPA/CACP/OPPA charade to maintain a police 'vulnerable sector screening' clearance - - - both spouses and parent/son/daughter can complete dual registration - as before, at least with any existing dually registered firearm. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:37:41 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: .357 Load Data JimK@CALPINECANADA.com said: > Hi. A question to all reloaders, I am looking for load data for .357 mag > using Hy Skor 700X powder. Looking to build a fairly hot load for my Desert > Eagle. I have used this powder for loading .38 special but can't find it > under .357. Any data and suggestions would be most welcome. Any replies Max loads: 110 gr. JHP 6.6 gr. 1165 fps 35,600 CUP 125 gr. JHP 6.2 gr. 1075 fps 36,000 CUP 158 gr. JHP 5.2 gr. 885 fps 35,800 CUP Two things... I don't know how finickity the action of the Desert Eagle is to various loads, but that may be a consideration if your loads don't fit this handguns required pressure curve for proper functioning. Second, if you are looking for the hottest loads in a .357, you won't get themwith Hi Skor. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:41:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul Chicoine" Subject: re Re: Why the RFC Fails to Unite: Response to Dan Lupichuk > > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:04:49 -0600 (CST) > From: "Jim Thacker" > Subject: Re: Why the RFC Fails to Unite: Response to Dan Lupichuk > > To the NFA folks > I must say that in reading Dorans and Lupichuk, Dorans gets my vote. The > only thing I would decry is the fact that all the time that it likely took > to compose both notes, and all the other notes responding to the internal > firearms community squabbles, could have been used to fight the real enemy, > the feds. - -snip- The Hinter/Tomlinson/Lupichuk etc. NFA is no longer trustworthy. comment composed and typed in no time at all !!! __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice _________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:57:55 -0600 (CST) From: "RFOCBC" Subject: RE: Professor Dorans response to Mr. Lupichuk Robin, is Ed Tait the Ghost of Christmas Past? I thought people quit speaking and writing in that style 300 years ago. Kevin P.S. Maybe a better suggestion WOULD be for Al and Jim to have a duel. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] On Behalf Of Ed Tait Sent: 26-Nov-02 6:58 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: Professor Dorans response to Mr. Lupichuk I read with interest this morning, Professor Dorans missive of this date, addressed to the RFC, in response to Mr. Lupichuk's of 28.10.02 which was written and posted, as I understand, in response to the Professor's comments, made in reference to Mr. Hinter's posting of 27.10.02 Regardless that I fully understand the Professor's motivation in responding to Mr. Lupichik's comments and positions and regardless also that I fully support the Professor's right and I would say, obligation to make his full case to his peers in the RFC, I choose not to involve myself in the minutia of the matter. I do not however, wish in any way to demean, or belittle the significance of the insinuations and allegations made or countered. I was raised to protect my reputation. I suggest that were we in another time, the response of the parties might have been by way of a slap of glove. We do not however, to the chagrin of many, live our lives any longer in that world. It is my considered judgment that the case in regards these matters has been made. On behalf of the current leadership of the NFA the case has been stated publicly by its President. Such has been commented to by the Professor, and the original case has been re-stated and reinforced by Mr. Lupichuk. All in an equally public forum before the full membership of the RFC. The members of the RFC are in my opinion, an intelligent and far-sighted lot, they will have, had they not previous to this latest exchange of views, determined where they stand, particularly given the amount of discussion and debate on these matters over such a prolonged time. In my judgment, no further point nor counter-point is required. Therefore, I request, with the greatest respect, that the matters which separate the parties be now, set aside by them, for the betterment of the RFC. Gentlemen, my old Father used to often opine, can agree to disagree and move forward together without loss of their respective integrity. Further he would suggest, such was the duty of a gentleman, were there to be a greater good than the individual at risk. I suggest, again with respect, that such is the case here, in this matter. As I have oft suggested, our adversary is the Federal Government, in its desire to continue in their efforts to diminish the God given rights of free men. Our personal battles, regardless their personal importance and significance are made petty by the import of this task and dare I say duty, which is ahead of us, good men all. We have I suggest, no further time to waste on these matters. We have a greater dragon to slay and we must be united or we shall surely fail and to fail would be to be held to account by the generations to come as well as the generations of the past, who toiled and sacrificed and died to secure from attack and entrust to us the freedoms that are today again in peril. I do not call for forgetting, nor forgiving, I call upon us all rather, to agree, for the good of us all and the good of the rights of our children and theirs, to end the bickering and the back and forth, to end for evermore, any manner of self indulgence and self interest. I call upon us to agree to disagree and to unite against our true and mutual adversary. I call for us to unite, regardless the wrong or the slight, for the greater good of all. With the greatest respect for all positions, I call upon all concerned in these matters to publicly announce the end of their participation in the continuation of that which would serve to divide us. Respectfully offered Ed Tait Victoria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:02:47 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Gingrich Subject: "Journalists Guide to Gun Violence Coverage" Dear Dr. Brown: Nov. 27, 2002 We, the law-abiding firearms owners, in Canada are being subjected to the most cruel legislation of any group in Canadian history. The Chretien Gun Law which comes into full operation on Jan.1, 2003 will have the effect of removing several rights and freedoms from Canada's best citizens. Lost to freedom loving Canadians will be the right to liberty, the right to security of the person, the right to procedural fairness, the right to unreasonable search and seizure, the right to privacy, the right to be presumed innocent, the right against arbitrary detention, the right to counsel upon detention, the right to freedom of expression, the right to bear arms, the right to property, and equal rights. The reason I am contacting you is that we have been using your "Journalist's Guide to Gun Violence Coverage "on our "Canadian Firearms Digest" as reference as to how the media demonizes and villifies firearms owners "caught" in police raids before they have a chance to defend themselves. The "firearm offenders" are openly, verbally, and brutally attacked by the media who often quote the police who themselves are spewing hateful and biased terms concerning "suspects" as they procede with their supposedly "fair investigations". This is where your guide applies. Our media uses many of the terms and techniques which you have so aptly described in your article to create yellow journalism which pushes the federal government's gun grabber dictate. I want to say thanks to you for exposing this jaundiced practice used by our "free press" to attack, until now, free law-abiding people who own firearms and have done nothing wrong. Yours in tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox, Sask. Soviet Kanuckistan (formerly Canada) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:02:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Tom Empey" Subject: Fw: Praising the Liberals - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Empey" To: "EDM. SUN" Cc: "CAL. SUN" ; "WPG. SUN" ; "TOR. SUN" ; "OTT. SUN" Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: Praising the Liberals > [please withhold my name if published] > > Editor > I think the federal Liberals and prime minister Chretien are the very best > government in Canadian history. Every single policy or plan put forward by > this government has always impressed me. I'm quite sure that the gun > registry will disarm all the criminals if we only spend lots more money to > make it work. Government spending is much more effective if they funnel our > tax dollars through their friends. Don't Liberal-friendly advertising firms > pay taxes, too? Giving the vote to murderers and rapists in prison is an > excellent idea--after all, they will probably never re-offend since they > were all deprived when they were young and that's our fault. The Kyoto > Protocol will be super for the economy because the Liberals say it will. I > know that I'd rather pay $2 a litre for gasoline if only the air quality in > the Arctic improves. > Trust them. They know what's best for us. > Sorry that this letter is in crayon as they do not allow us to have anything > sharp in here. > > > Tom Empey [please withhold my name if published.] > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:39:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: RCMP REGISTRAR HAS TABLED 2001 FIREARMS REPORT Returns and Reports tabled with the Clerk of the House and referred to committee pursuant to S.O. 32(5)=09 2nd Session - 37th Parliament November 22, 2002 By Mr. Easter (Solicitor General of Canada) - Report of the Registrar = of the Canadian Firearms Registry for the year 2001, pursuant to the Firearms = Act, R.C. 1995, c.39, sbs. 93(2). - Sessional Paper No. 8560-372-144-01. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights)=09 - ----------------------------------------- =C9tats et rapports d=E9pos=E9s aupr=E8s dugreffier de la Chambre et = d=E9f=E9r=E9s aux comit=E9s conform=E9ment =E0 l`article 32(5) 2e session - 37e l=E9gislature le 22 novembre 2002 Par M. Easter (solliciteur g=E9n=E9ral du Canada) - Rapport du = Directeur du registre canadien des armes =E0 feu pour l'ann=E9e 2001, conform=E9ment = =E0 la Loi sur les armes =E0 feu, L.C. 1995, ch. 39, par. 93(2). - Document = parlementaire no 8560-372-144-01. (Conform=E9ment =E0 l'article 32(5) du R=E8glement, = renvoi en permanence au Comit=E9 permanent de la justice et des droits de la =personne) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:47:18 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [none] Subject: My letter to the Editor, Windso Star Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Gun control myths Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:34:28 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: mtaube@win.southam.ca, letters@win.southam.ca I would like to thank the Windsor Star and Mr. Taube for writing and publishing an important column like "Gun Control Myths". Far too often the media promotes only the anti-gun sentiment through sensationalizing "gun violence" in the "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality. This does a disservice to all law abiding gun owners. Mr. Taube is right: it is all about respect. Respect for the rights of others, respect for their property, and respect for their person and beliefs. All gun control serves to do is to tell law abiding gun owners that they can't be trusted, and that somehow they are the problem. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gun owners are fed up with continually being blamed and punished for the criminal acts of others. It is time to put a stop to this shifting of responsibility, and put it back where it belongs - on the real criminals who commit criminal acts. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:49:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Mark Horstead" Subject: Re: 132% error rate - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Walker" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: 132% error rate > I think I missed how this was calculated, but I see everyone is > using this figure. Without that knowledge, I believe we will have a > difficult time convincing people that the figure is correct: How do you > get more errors than things to error (which is what the number seems to > imply)? If this is a valid number, then explain it each time you use it, > or it may actually detract from the cause. Multiple errors on many applications/certificates. This figure was courtesy of Garry Breitkreuz and Dennis Young. Nobody's questioned it yet. All that the Wendies do is tout their meaningless platitudes. They've yet to be able to counter our arguments. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:22:41 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: 132% error rate On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Mark Horstead wrote: > > difficult time convincing people that the figure is correct: How do you > > get more errors than things to error (which is what the number seems to > > imply)? > Multiple errors on many applications/certificates. This figure was > courtesy of Garry Breitkreuz and Dennis Young. I believe it is from http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/gunregistryerrors3.htm 1. JUSTICE DEPT. ADMITS 90% + 42% ERROR RATE IN FIREARMS REGISTRATION APPLICATIONS: Justice Department letter dated May 22, 2002 (ATIP File A01-051/ok): The error rate for applications received up to July 18, 2001, was 90% of a total of 362,375. In addition to errors detailed in Appendix A, 42% of firearms registration applications contain errors in the firearms description, in comparison to the Firearms Reference Table. The sum of the errors exceeds the number of applications received because the application is only counted once even though it may contain multiple errors. > Nobody's questioned it yet. The above is actually an outdated figure. It refers to license applications and registrations up to July 18, 2001. > All that the Wendies do is tout their meaningless platitudes. > They've yet to be able to counter our arguments. Forget Wendy. It is the average Joe Blow reading the letters to the editor that is the concern. By itself, a "132% error rate" is illogical. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:30:10 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: Fw: The inside Story This comment was made on a Chat that i'm on. Probably Tongue in Cheek, and some could get a chuckle out of it? KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!!! MED To The A-Team, Many have predicted that after her resignation Ducros would get a plum posting from her friend the PM. Well my informants have given me the scoop. Apparently our PM will announce this afternoon that Ducros will be our new Ambassador to the USA. She will be taking up residence in Wasghington immediately. Our PM for the first time is sincerely planning in boosting our security, but not in Canada, just in the USA, in Wasghington to be exact. The truth to this story has "more on" it than you think. Gerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:28:48 -0600 (CST) From: "T.Bennett Finley" Subject: Gun for sale An older friend of mine (not on Internet) is getting rid of most (but not all) hisa guns. He wants to sell this special one: Ducks Unlimited Beretta Autoloader(A303-20), 20 gauge, 3inch, 26 in bbl, Inscribed, Serial 87DU1971 Never fired, comes with original documentation, and original hard case. He purchased it at a Ducks Unlimited evening when they auctioned this off many years ago. He hopes to get around $1,000 for it. He paid more than that. Anyone interested contact me directly and I'll put them in touch with my friend. T.Bennett Finley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:19:29 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: My Letter to Michael Taube- Windsor Star Dear Sir : - - I would like to thank you for writing your recent article on The Truth about Gun Control and Gun Ownership in Canada.(Myths of Gun Control) I am a former Peace Officer from Manitoba, and have been an avid Target shooter for over 22 years. I can tell you that not only is Gun Control Unconstitutional ( as it violates Canadians charter Rights on at least 17 different accounts, - but also endangers Canadians by depriving them of their right to self-defence, because Canadian Gun Laws are set up in such a way so as to make defensive use with a firearm almost impossible in a real emergency. - - The U.S. states that have CCW laws enjoy the lowest crime rates in North America!! - another factor our Liberal Govermnment chooses to ignore !! - - The Bottom line is Gun Owners are being singled out for discrimination, harrassment,etc because they simply refuse to become part of the Liberal Government 's Social Engineering agenda. Gun Owners are not the Real Criminals - but yet they are being treated like they're all some type of World Notorious terrorists by the Government. - - The Government is now currently trying to pass even more discriminatory legislation (Bill C-17 ) that would prohibit Gun Owners from possessing or manufacturing their own ammunition (or even components) ( Currently many target shooters and hunters make their own ammunition, tailored made to be far more accurrate then store-bought factory made ammunition. ) Gun owners do this for either Hunting ammunition or for Target Shooting and/or Target Competition Shooting. - - So again, the Government figures since they know they won't get all gun owners to comply with their gun laws- they will try to ban ammunition !! ...Excuse me, Did I hear someone say that Canada is a Free Country / Democracy ? ..Really ? - - it seems very apparant to me that Canada stopped being a free country Long ago when the Liberals took Office. Ever since then Canada has been Allowing Pedophiles to collect child pornography in the interests of artist merit, Allowing murders,Rapists, and others to plea-bargain their way out of jail, insists only Law-abding Gun Owners comply with Laws that will prevent them from defending their families against the very same people they have allowed to roam free via plea-bargaining- and Let us not forget the ultimate Socialist Act yet this Government has performed...Throwing innocent hard working Farmers in Jail for selling their very own wheat !!! .... Yeah, we're a real free country alright !! - - There is somthing very definiately wrong with this country - and the people who sit on their duffs and simply don't care enough to act and voice their concerns don't deserve freedom ... We recently honored our fallen soldiers on Rememberance Day- they gave their lives for freedom - so that we may "Have Freedom" - having Freedom is one thing , cherishing it and protecting it is another !! - - Canada has become a nation of Lazy, complacent cowards, who needs a good kick in the pants at times to get their brains motivated !! - -I hope your article on Gun Control may have done that !! - - Sincerely, - -Robert A. Mazurek - -Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:29:57 -0600 (CST) From: "BOB LICKACZ" Subject: MIKE BROWN Dear CFDer's: Mike Black, oops Brown, (you know I've always had difficulty in telling the difference between those colored people) is one of us. If you notice he describes himself as "Professor Michael Brown School of Journalism, Brady Chair". If you don't understand this signature at the end of the article, let me explain it to you. An aid to Ronnie Raygun (Ronald Reagan, former US president) by the name of Allan (?) Brady was shot in the head by John Hinckley Jr. during an assassination attempt. Brady survived the shooting, but has considerable associated problems. His wife Sarah, then became active with the anti-gun crowd, Handgun Inc., if I'm not mistaken. So you see the Brady Chair reference ties in with the tone of the article. I really admire a guy like Brown for his wit. Bob Lickacz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:51:01 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: Why the RFC Fails to Unite: Response to Dan Lupichuk Al Dorans said: > On October 28, Dan Lupichuk, President, Saskatchewan NFA, felt compelled on > behalf of Jim Hinter, to answer my letter regarding the NFA President's > Message appearing on the Digest #195, October 27, 2002. I have to tell you, Al, that I'm not sure whether Dan Lupichuk felt compelled to post on behalf of Jim Hinter - or whether he was ordered to post on behalf of Jim Hinter. Looking back through his emails of last spring, Dan Lupichuk was probably the most strident person condemning Jim Hinter's leadership. Some of Dan's comments regarding Jim Hinter: With regards to the hour before plane left that I had to spend in the company of JH----completely disgusting, he thinks everyone except him is brain-dead and if he bullsh*ts enough he can turn everything into being RAL's fault and blame him for everything- Man oh Man does this fellow ever have problems. I am seriously thinking he needs a good Doctor--not meant as a joke--I am dead serious. please remember there is not a shred of decency, any ethic, morals or basically any normal human traits amongst the lot of these snakes, they have proved that many times. In our part of this country we know what to do with characters like have been shafting us and our members in this organization---it involves getting a rail and a bunch of tar and feathers---we already have good hemp ropes and some good sized trees!!!!!! Yep, Dan posted often, and as you can see from the above, he had lots of strong things to say about Jim Hinter and his performance as the National President of the NFA. Actually, come to think about it, he didn't have much good to say about Dave Tomlinson and Wally Butts either. He had lots of advice on how to deal with Jim Hinter, freely and often offered to "the takeover gang" (which is what I think he calls the Directors now). Now suddenly things have changed. Dan Lupichuk is supporting Jim Hinter. And what really concerns me is that he posted that criminal and civil action had been taken by the NFA against "the takeover gang". I found that quite curious, so on at least two separate occasions I emailed Dan Lupichuk to please provide me with the details regarding what criminal charges had been laid against the directors, what civil actions started, etc. And at this point, Dan Lupichuk has become unexpectedly, instantly and completely silent. It is my belief at this point that in fact no criminal or civil actions exist against any of "the takeover gang". I have emailed several of the Directors and they have told me they have not been charged with anything or summonsed to court. Simply put, I think Dan Lupichuk was lying about the existence of criminal charges and civil actions in order to smear "the takeover gang" that he was once a prominent and outspoken member of. It appears that Dan has been hanging around with Jim Hinter too long and has finally contracted Jim Hinter Disease... And THAT, Al, is why I think you found yourself attacked by a posting from Dan Lupichuk which was full of half truths and outright lies. Dan is Jim's boy now... I don't know what it took to buy him, but they bagged Kearns somehow or other after he had originally condemned their dishonesty and lying, and now they've managed to do the same with Dan Lupichuk. Hinter is actually a better hunter than I gave him credit for - which is unfortunate for the rest of the RFC. > I hoped that Mr. Lupichuk would have felt compelled enough to answer my > initial question, "Has the term of office of the NFA President expired?" > DL failed to answer that. He evaded it altogether. Instead, he deflected Yes, I put that question to him directly as well. I didn't even get evasion; I got outright silence. Strange response from Dan, who was never shy before this about voicing opinions about Jim Hinter. > Frankly, I am not at all bitter that the NFA would not fund an Ottawa > Office. The main reason is that the NFA was never asked to do this. It > appears that someone is badly misleading NFA members. Accordingly, I am > justifiably concerned about the spin-doctoring, miscommunication and > distorted communication within the NFA. To justify his rejection of the Curious isn't it, Al, that you never approached the NFA about this and yet Dan Lupichuk brings it up on behalf of Jim Hinter with an implication that this is exactly what you had done? Spin doctoring indeed. Right up there with the "Do you still beat your wife" methodology... Kind of makes me wonder if Tomlinson's puppet Hinter doesn't now have a puppet of his own to play with. > Ottawa RFC Office proposal, JH described to NFA members that $300,000 for > an Ottawa Office would be half of the NFA's $600,000 annual budget. > Whatever gave Jim Hinter the erroneous idea that the total cost of an Ottawa > Office would be borne exclusively by the NFA? As explained to JH numerous > times orally, and in writing, the cost was to be shared cooperatively by > donations from 5-7 million gun owners and 2,000 firearms organizations. > Why does he fail repeatedly to comprehend this? As a national firearms > organizations, the NFA was simply invited to play its cooperative and > proportional part. Given many invitations, the NFA has steadfastly refused > to cooperate with the rest of the RFC in the collective fight to scrap Jim Hinter comprehends this just fine, Al. The primary problem Jim Hinter and Dave Tomlinson have with an Ottawa RFC office is actually threefold: First, such an office would detract from their importance and draw some RFC attention away from them. Second, this would also result in some of the money donated by the RFC each year going to the Ottawa RFC office rather than into their greedy little hands. And third, as I have mentioned previously, an Ottawa office would be beyond their grasping reach and control. So it isn't an issue of comprehension with JH and DAT - it is an issue sabotage; blowing yet another idea that they don't want to get established out of the water. > biased media. Regarding the Ottawa RFC Office proposal, I reported an > option to forego a physical office space and thus save close to $100,000 > off the NFA estimate. Why did DL and JH neglect to mention this to NFA > members in their letters? Why were these facts withheld in subsequent NFA > communications? You've already come up with the answer, Al: spin doctoring. The NFA membership is a perfect example of a mushroom farm: the members are kept in the dark and fed bullsh*t. Jim Hinter, Dave Tomlinson - and now Dan Lupichuk - - are very careful to make sure they only get the right bullsh*t as well. As they feel threatened by an Ottawa RFC office, that idea has to be torpedoed in the memberships' eyes - and that means they make sure nothing positive about the idea is allowed to be communicated to the membership. > DL asked, "Did it ever occur to you to try to work together rather than > attacking organizations that are actually accomplishing something?" I have to tell you, Al, that it is rather amusing reading the archives of Dan Lupichuk's emails from last spring attacking Jim Hinter, Wally Butts, and Dave Tomlinson - and then turning around and reading those comments directed at you. Dan is starting to sound amazingly like Jim Hinter in how he thinks and talks. If I didn't know that Dan Lupichuk actually exists, I would be beginning to wonder if Dan was just another Hinter persona like "SamuelColt1865". > FED UP I/FED UP II Rallies Dan Lupichuk raised the issue: "Speaking of the > Fed Up I and Fed Up II--there was to be a financial accounting done to the > groups that donated towards those. I belong to at least three of those > groups. None have ever received a financial statement of any kind. Private > messages have also went unanswered and ignored, maybe a public one will get > answered. When Are The Groups That Donated To These Fed Up Rallys Going To > Get The Promised Financial Statement?" In my opinion, Al, you missed a vital point in your response. Dan Lupichuk is demanding to know when a financial accounting will be presented to the groups that donated to these rallies. Which is all fine and good, despite the fact you aren't the money guy to begin with. What you overlooked in your response is that Dan Lupichuk's interest in financial accountings seems to only extend to finances he thinks can be laid at your door. Dan Lupichuk is a provincial NFA president and signs himself as such. Do you ever hear him demanding an NFA financial accounting from Jim Hinter to comply with the court order? How about the annual financial accounting that the NFA is supposed to provide? How about an accounting to Ted Nugent USA regarding the money raised from that event? You don't hear so much as a squeak out of him now about NFA financial accountability - just the Fed Up rallies. One would hope that a provincial president of the NFA would deal with the serious financial irregularities and missing money of the organization he is a very senior officer of before worrying about what is going on in somebody else's back yard. However, let's give Dan Lupichuk a chance... Now that you have explained to him and everyone else on this list what is happening with the Fed Up Rally finances, I'm sure Dan Lupichuk will immediately turn his inquisitive concerns to NFA financial issues. Perhaps NFA members will FINALLY receive that court ordered accounting they have waited so many months for with Dan Lupichuk leading the charge! Then again... perhaps not... > That shattered the faulty and illusory NFA premise that there is no point > in trying to influence politicians in Ottawa. Bombardier has an Ottawa > office. The Coalition for Gun Control has offices in Ottawa, Montreal and > Toronto. Walter Robinson and the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation have an > Ottawa office. So do hundreds of other Canadian lobby groups. Is it any > wonder why we are losing? Exactly. And many people have pointed that out. Which leads to several possible conclusions. First, Jim Hinter, Dave Tomlinson, and now Dan Lupichuk are too stupid to realize the value of having a presence in Ottawa. Frankly, I don't believe any of them are that clueless. Second, these people don't want an Ottawa RFC office, for reasons mentioned above. And they feel so strongly about that they are willing to give up a potentially powerful tool and handicap the RFC in this fight in order to maintain power and control. My vote is for the second scenario. > Mr. Lupichuk asks a rhetorical question that is impossible to answer. "How > many firearms owners have you actually REALLY HELPED?" How many grains of > sand are there on the beach? All he needs to do is read some back issues > of the Digest or I can send him hundreds of emails. At FED UP II, 30,000 > demonstrators, 43,000 petitioners, 30,000 proxy voters, and 1500 small > businesses certainly signaled their real appreciation for what RFC > Ottawa/FED UP Canada were doing. Meanwhile, contrast those accomplishments with what Dave Tomlinson and Jim Hinter can truthfully lay claim to. The difference is that Dave Tomlinson and Jim Hinter accomplish nothing but self aggrandization and providing themselves with a lifestyle that they feel they deserve (compliments of NFA membership dues, of course). Al Dorans managed to put serious numbers on the Hill and serious numbers in front of politicians. And he did it with a fraction of the volunteer and financial resources that the NFA could tap into if it actually wanted to accomplish something. There are those who just talk the talk. And then there are those who can also walk the walk. Al Dorans belongs in the second group, and despite remaining relatively in the background, he has accomplished far more than Hinter and Tomlinson ever have or will, all their preening and grandstanding before the converted notwithstanding. > 1. Billboard Campaign About 2 years ago, Jim Hinter telephoned me to ask > if I would serve on the NFA Billboard Committee. Realizing the importance > of cooperation within the RFC, I agreed spontaneously, as usual. > Thereafter, I heard absolutely nothing. Money was collected. It was all > talk. This wasted precious time and energy and led us nowhere. When Dan Lupichuk gets that financial accounting from the NFA for everyone (now that he no longer has to worry about Fed Up finances), no doubt it will be explained to all of us where those thousands and thousands of dollars in the Billboard Campaign disappeared to... Over to you, Dan... > In fact, JH returned to Calgary, received his new marching orders, > reversed his position 180 degrees on FED UP III, for whatever reason, > influenced by whomever, and thereafter worked to defeat the FED UP III idea > that he had been promoting. More wasted time and energy. All smoke and > mirrors. Who is running the NFA? Yet again, Dave Tomlinson and Jim Hinter torpedo another cooperative RFC initiative. Do they have enough "kills" to make ace yet? As for who's running the NFA, does anybody seriously doubt that Dave Tomlinson isn't the eminence gris standing behind Jim Hinter in the NFA office he illegally occupies? Dave Tomlinson has too much personal dependency on the NFA to ever voluntarily allow it to fall into hands that he hasn't bought or in some other manner controls. And until his sorry ass and that of his apprentice Jim Hinter are booted out, the NFA is never going to be more than the publisher of a cheesy magazine that doesn't make its' publishing schedule and a minor footnote in history. What a legacy Tomlinson and Hinter are building for themselves! > It took CILA 5 weeks to contact its many directors who agreed to support the > CFAC program. It has taken the NFA 20 months and still it has not agreed > to work cooperatively through CFAC, in fighting to repeal and replace > C-68/FA. Reasons for refusal included NFA having to bear the entire cost > (false), the cost itself (overstated) and the foolishness of lobbying in > Ottawa (myth). So guess why are we losing? Another cooperative RFC coalition torpedoed by Tomlinson and Hinter. Yup, they must have made ace by now... Why are we losing indeed... why does any member of the NFA even have to ask that question? > Some NFA members have speculated that Dave Tomlinson torpedoed the CFAC > program and also the FED UP III Rally, because an Ottawa Office was 2500 > miles away from his grasping reach. Another common NFA assessment was, "If > it's not an NFA idea, it's not a good idea." I resemble those remarks. And I think they are entirely accurate. > For whatever reason, JH was singularly obsessed with knowing what was left > in the FED UP II reserve fund. Perhaps he was being prompted and prodded. Odd that a man with such an obsession for how Fed Up monies were spent can be so secretive and dishonest about accounting for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that pour through his fingers each year, don't you think? Isn't it also odd that if knowing where the money went is so important to him, he then can't understand that knowing where NFA money went is important to NFA members? Hmmmmm.... > Within a week, after promising to handle the matter personally and > internally, JH was on the phone trying to pry the information out of Karl > Schrader, one of the key FED UP II Organizers and a trustee of the reserve > fund. As JH was fully aware, Karl who was 75, was recuperating from heart > trouble. Regardless, JH called him. Karl was very emotionally upset that > JH initiated this underhanded stunt. Hence, I called JH to protest his > reprehensible actions and the abuse of Karl. JH was taken aback. A day > or two later, Jim Hinter claimed that Karl had initiated the call to him. > JH claimed that Karl was the one who had raised the issue of the small > reserve fund. When I shared this with Karl, his reaction in his strong > German accent was emotional and swift, "Vot! This is crazy! I never You discovered that Jim Hinter can't be trusted and he's a pathological liar. My, what a shock that is to the rest of us! Welcome to the club, Al. Y'know, it must just make somebody who is an NFA member feel warm and fuzzy all over to know they are being identified with and represented by a "leader" with Jim Hinter's morals, character, and reputation... > The reserve was diminished further when we recognized the persistent > persecution of Yukon prospector, Allen Carlos. In a precedent setting test > case, Mr. Carlos stood up courageously to the legal onslaughts of a > vindictive federal government and an unjust judiciary. After thorough > investigations, much discussion and significant deliberations, the 4 FED UP > II trustees agreed unanimously to send Mr. Carlos $1,500 for his legal > defense fund, for standing up on behalf of all gun owners. Once again, FED > UP II trustees acted responsibly. While the NFA lied, with Jim Hinter claiming that they had donated money to Carlos' defense, when in fact they had not. Dan Lupichuk is the one who made that little fact public, incidentally. But that was back in his days of saying Jim Hinter had to go. Once again, it appears that Al Dorans and his efforts are walking the walk while Hinter and Tomlinson do little but strut and talk the talk to the converted. ...And spend NFA money on themselves and their "politician at the trough" lifestyles, of course... > The Digest letter by Dan Lupichuk was prompted by false information > circulating within the leadership of the NFA. The first of these is that I > organized the FED UP I Rally. That is a lie. Second, I was therefore > responsible for a financial statement to FED UP I contributors. That is > also a lie. Boy, more of them NFA lies from the NFA dictators. Gets to the point when you're more surprised to hear the truth from this bunch than another lie... > DAT's claim that he sent me an NFA cheque for FED UP I is another lie. I > challenge him to produce that cheque with my signature on it along with the > co-signed authorization for the cheque per NFA bylaws. While you're at it, Al, ask him to also produce the names of the expelled Directors who he wrote sent him apologies for their part in the removal of Hinter and Butts "for cause". It appears he lied about that as well... > Shouldn't NFA leaders address their prime responsibilities first, before > casting stones and circulating wild accusations to deflect attention away > from their highly questionable conduct? I think so. Dan Lupichuk and others within the NFA apparently don't agree. Don't blame the general membership however - I doubt that even one in fifty has even the slightest clue this is going on. One thing the NFA dictatorship is very good at, and that is propaganda and controlling the flow of information to the masses within the NFA. Give them credit for that; Goebbels would be proud. The only problem they have with information control is that they are constantly being caught in lie after lie after lie. They seem to have partially dealt with that problem by simply remaining silent. > If DAT is so quick to accept extravagant credit for things the NFA has, > or has not done, then he should accept major responsibility for the dire > situation that the RFC faces with C-68/FA on gun registration day. Curious how he overlooks that part of the commander's (he ain't no leader) job, isn't it? The fact is the NFA has failed miserably to make any significant gains while under Tomlinson's command and that of his puppet Hinter. He has entertained the troops with his bombast and strutting, but at the end of the day, the Firearms Act has been implemented with scarcely a hitch. The biggest bobbles along the way were the Fed Up rallies - which Tomlinson had little to do with. All Tomlinson can do is point to a small string of lower court decisions which haven't halted the progress of Firearms Act implementation in the slightest. Hinter and Tomlinson are now promising anyone still listening that they will devastate the Firearms Act with a series of clever court actions once it is implemented. Aside from the fact this tells me they gave up the fight to stop full implementation of the FA a long time ago, it also reminds me of the previous "can't miss" strategy... Remember Tomlinson's happy assurances that once the Reform Party formed the next government, the Firearms Act would be repealed? That one was a real winner, and I don't expect much different from the next promised lightening offensive from the NFA... > Why does a non-elected individual such as DAT have my confidential NFA > membership information? That is none of his business. For the same reason that elections weren't held. For the same reason that Hinter is collecting an illegal salary. For the same reason money isn't being properly accounted for. The reason is that NFA bylaws - including your right to not have your personal information shopped around - mean nothing to Dave Tomlinson. You have forgotten the unwritten "God Rule": Dave Tomlinson is God, and all the other rules, bylaws, etc don't apply to God. > DAT has a particular problem with the word "leadership" which he equates > with dictatorship. DAT doesn't have a problem with the word "leadership" - it simply doesn't exist in his vocabulary. Why in the world would the dues paying peons think they deserve anything more than to be overseen by an oligarchy, the scum? The peons have to realize their sole purpose is to keep the coffers full, shut up, keep their questions to themselves, and do what they're told. Who the hell do they think they are, anyway? > DAT's previous attitudes could be described variously as hostile, > uncooperative, derogatory, controlling, condescending, narrow, pessimistic, > insulting, negative, degrading, untrustworthy, all-knowing, domineering, > demeaning and abusive. These attitudes are cancerous and have spread to > others in the NFA. They are inconsistent with the attitudes of effective > leaders. You left out "dishonest", "prevaricating", "conniving", "scheming", "underhanded", and of course, "meglomaniac". > DAT to NFA Leader: "Our members don't need to look at the financial > statements because they aren't bright enough to understand them". Ah yes, doesn't that also give you a warm fuzzy feeling as an NFA member to know you are so well thought of? Members are bright enough to run their own businesses, some support their families and raise children on limited incomes, others successfully manage the financial complexities and forcasting required to survive as a farmer or rancher, still others are accountants... But sadly, the poor dears are simply too stupid to understand the NFA's financial statements - if they were ever allowed to actually see them... God! I can't help but wonder what would be found hidden in Tomlinson's and Hinter's spending if people ever DID get a chance to see those financial accounts... > Therefore, why should I, or anyone else, want to join the NFA when members > are held in such low regard and with utter disdain? Ummmm... because if you don't Tomlinson and Hinter won't be able to support themselves and their fantasies in the manner they are accustomed to? > As NFA leaders see memberships dropping, gun owners failing to renew their > memberships, and donation pledges heading elsewhere, this is a contrived > and desperate attempt to deflect attention away from their culpability and > to discredit others. Yup. > Similarly, NFA leaders are jealously protecting their turf and sacrificing > the entire RFC in the process, rather than cooperating to scrap C-68/FA. > The NFA fiddles while the RFC burns. Yup. > Herein, I have addressed clearly and directly the questions posed in Dan > Lupichuk's letter. Yup. > Now it is the NFA's turn to answer clearly and directly, its members' long > standing concerns, without delay. Yup. As usual, good job Al... ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #326 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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