From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #333 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, November 29 2002 Volume 05 : Number 333 In this issue: Re: 132% error rate My letter to the National Post - Published! Re: Moderator CFC - Update on Canada's Firearms Program=20 Re: Moderator CFC BACKGROUNDER - Status of the Canadian Firearms Program WHAT DID TAXPAYERS GET FOR THEIR BILLION DOLLARS? =?iso-8859-1?Q?Qu=27ont_Obtenu_les_contribuables_en_=E9change_?= Re: $1 bn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:19:06 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: 132% error rate On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Jim Hill wrote: > I have used the figure in discussions at work and each time I do > someone always points out that it is impossible to have an error > rate over 100%. I tell them that this is what you get when you count > in all the "gone and ghost guns" that were included in the registry. I am not sure what the statement "Justice Dept. admits 90% + 42% error rate in firearms registration applications" actually means. See http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/GunControl65.htm Perhaps he added the error rate in the handgun reregistry to the error rate in the long gun registration applications. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:20:04 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the National Post - Published! http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/story.html?id={02A80871-AED1-4AD1-A410-05F223F71D54} Re: Time to Ditch the Gun Registry, editorial, Nov. 28. The truth about the federal Liberal government's firearms registry is that it is onerous, costly and ultimately, unworkable. On this we agree. However, I take exception to your classifying this law as "harmless." It is nothing of the kind. It is draconian and unjust. The Firearms Act violates all seven provisions of the Privacy Act, in my estimation, and may even violate at least 10 of our rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This legislation targets exactly the wrong people: law-abiding gun owners. If the Liberal government were really intent in promoting "public safety" and "crime control," it would have enforced the existing legislation against the use of firearms in the commission of crimes. They should keep violent criminals who use guns locked up rather than hand out weak sentences. For far too long this affront to our rights and wallets has gone unchallenged by the mainstream media. Canadians need to speak up and hold the federal government accountable for this shameful legislative fiasco. Law-abiding gun owners are fed up with constantly being scapegoated and punished for the criminal acts of others. Bruce N. Mills, Dundas, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:42:19 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: Moderator On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, moderator wrote: > It is a little more complicated than that Sir. But basically it is > caused by differences in various software and so on. The =20 problem > seems to come from writing in Word and copying to email or mailing > directly from Word. Generally messages received in html etc are > trashed. But the list is growing so there are always new posters > and I hate to trash these without warning. These are generally > returned the first few times with a request to repost in plain text. > Patience is the key I suppose. Thanks for your interest. We are > trying. Gordon, have you looked into a mail converter program? For example, http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Reference/Products/PerlMx/mailconvert.html Moderator: Thank you Jim. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:44:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" , =20@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: CFC - Update on Canada's Firearms Program=20 http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/update-29nov2002/ Update on Canada's Firearms Program=20 OTTAWA, November 29, 2002 - The Honourable Martin Cauchon, Minister of=20 Justice and Attorney General for Canada, today released an update on=20 Canada's firearms program, as the January 1, 2003 registration deadline=20 approaches.=20 "The Government of Canada is making every effort to assist firearm owners in= =20 meeting the registration requirements of the Firearms Act. Today we have put= =20 in place measures to ensure that individuals and businesses that have acted= =20 to comply with the law will not be penalized. We are confident that by the= =20 end of the year, an overwhelming majority of firearm owners will have=20 complied with registration as they have with licensing." said Minister=20 Cauchon.=20 This fall, a reminder letter was sent to licensed firearm owners who had yet= =20 to participate in registration, along with a personalized application form.= =20 Another option is to register on-line for free, until the end of December=20 2002. Details on this service and instructions are available at=20 www.cfc.gc.ca. While the on-line service is free, there is an $18 processing= =20 fee for registration applications submitted by mail. Anyone who has yet to= =20 apply should do so immediately.=20 The licensing phase of the program has been a success, with over 90% of=20 Canada's estimated 2.3 million firearm owners in compliance. So far, about= =20 70% of licensed firearm owners have acted to comply with registration. Over= =20 200,000 registration applications have already been submitted over the=20 Internet. This translates into millions of firearms that are accounted for,= =20 mostly rifles and shotguns, which were difficult to trace under the old=20 system.=20 Canadians are continuing to register their firearms in large numbers and a= =20 peak of applications is expected just before the deadline. In light of this= =20 expectation, Minister Cauchon has announced a six-month grace period for=20 firearm owners who submit their registration application but do not have=20 their certificates in hand by January 1, 2003. This is part of the=20 government's commitment to ensure that law-abiding citizens are not=20 penalized.=20 This is not an extension of the registration deadline but rather protection= =20 from any criminal liability for those who have complied with the law. Owners= =20 who have not applied to register by the end of December 2002 will not be=20 protected by the grace period. The goal of the firearms program is to=20 enhance public safety by keeping firearms from those who should not have=20 them, like those with a history of violence. There is no intention of=20 penalizing law-abiding citizens.=20 While registration will not be completely implemented until January 1, 2003,= =20 the firearms program is already making a significant contribution to public= =20 safety by keeping firearms from those who should not have them and by=20 encouraging safe and responsible gun ownership. With extensive and=20 continuous background checks on applicants and licence holders, over 7,000= =20 firearms licences have been refused or revoked by public safety officials.= =20 That is over 50 times more revocations from potentially dangerous=20 individuals since December 1, 1998, compared to the last five years under=20 the old program.=20 Firearms registration also continues to enjoy widespread public support. A= =20 Gallup poll released last year showed that 76% of Canadians support a=20 national firearm registry. This is consistent with poll results over the=20 past decade, that show strong support for the firearms program.=20 The Minister also announced an extension to the amnesty period for=20 prohibited handguns until December 31st, 2003. This extension will ensure=20 that individuals and businesses in possession of these firearms are=20 protected, until Parliament can complete its consideration of proposed=20 amendments contained in Bill C-10, which may affect them. Otherwise, the=20 amnesty provides them with more time to legally dispose of the firearms.=20 This amnesty also covers businesses that are holding unregistered firearms= =20 for consignment sales. The businesses will have until December 31st, 2003 to= =20 sell the firearms to a licenced individual or business, or to otherwise=20 dispose of them.=20 Additionally the transfer fee, which has been waived since June 30th 2000,= =20 will be reinstated as planned on January 1, 2003. As of that date, the cost= =20 of transferring a firearm will be $25 per firearm.=20 - - 30 -=20 Ref:=20 Mike Murphy=20 Special Assistant - Communications=20 Office of the Minister of Justice=20 (613) 992-4621=20 Chantale Breton=20 Media Information Officer=20 Canadian Firearms Centre=20 (613) 946-3116=20 David Austin=20 Communications and Public Affairs=20 Canadian Firearms Centre=20 (613) 941-5371=20 (Version fran=E7aise disponible)=20 Internet: www.canada.justice.gc.ca=20 Backgrounder=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:02:39 -0600 (CST) From: "Keith P. de Solla" Subject: Re: Moderator A lot (not all) of these problems would disappear if people stuck with a mail program to compose mail and only sent text. The difficulty is not every computer user is a computer expert & may not know that. If there are a lot of new subscribers showing up, perhaps a period post (kept as short as possible) to point these things out & let people know ahead of time non-text email (ie. html) will be rejected. Alternatively, that information could be included in the "welcome" message sent to new subscribers. - -keith On Thursday 28 November 2002 08:57 pm, you wrote: > Sir: > Could something be done about these endless psosts with the =20 at the end > of each sentence. I understnad the user need only change a setting on their > browser. It is so tiring and a nuissance that I no longer eagerly await my > digest. > If the senders cant fix their browsers and e-mail, then please do not post > their letters. perhaps a comment to this on the digest so as to inform > people ...it is really getting tiresome > > otherwise a good job > > J Ross > > Moderator: It is a little more complicated than that Sir. But basically it > is caused by differences in various software and so on. The =20 problem > seems to come from writing in Word and copying to email or mailing directly > from Word. Generally messages received in html etc are trashed. But the > list is growing so there are always new posters and I hate to trash these > without warning. These are generally returned the first few times with a > request to repost in plain text. Patience is the key I suppose. Thanks > for your interest. We are trying. > > Gordon Hitchen > Moderator. - -- Keith P. de Sollakdesolla@austin.rr.com Moderator: Thanks Keith. I have started telling new subscribers that come through me. Many subscribe directly through the server program by following the instructions at the end of each issue of the Digest though. The periodic reminder sounds good . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:02:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: CFC BACKGROUNDER - Status of the Canadian Firearms Program http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/update-29nov2002/b BACKGROUNDER Status of the Canadian Firearms Program Update on Licensing and Firearm Registration As of January 1, 2001 anyone possessing firearms in Canada must have a licence or a valid Firearms Acquisition Certificate, and owners must have all their firearms registered by January 1, 2003. Over 2.1 million (or 90 per cent) of Canada's estimated 2.3 million firearms owners have acted to comply with licensing. So far, about 70% of the 1.8 million licensed firearm owners have participated in registration, with a peak of applications expected just before the deadline. Recently, Canadians have been applying to register their firearms in large numbers. Options for Firearm Owners Licensed firearm owners who are not planning on registering some or all of their firearms have other legal options if they act before December 31st. Firearms that are no longer used or wanted, can, for example, be sold or given to an individual or business that has a licence. Proper deactivation of a firearm by a gunsmith is another option. It is also possible to contact local police and arrange for the disposal of unwanted firearms. While they may differ from city to city, most local police services have disposal procedures in place. Grace Period For Registration While the vast majority of firearms owners have already applied to register their firearms, a last minute surge is expected during the month of December. In order to alleviate concerns from the firearms community and other stakeholders regarding the processing of these new applications, the Minister has announced a six-month grace period. Under this grace period, individuals who have applied to register their firearms prior to January 1, 2003 will be afforded protection from criminal liability while they are in the process of bringing themselves into compliance with the Firearms Act. Protection under the grace period will be afforded until such time as a registration certificate is issued or refused, up until June 30th, 2003. Any firearm owners who have failed to submit their registration application by the deadline will not be protected by the grace period. Steps have been taken to assist firearm owners submit their application by the registration deadline. Amnesty for Businesses with Firearms on Consignment An amnesty has also been announced for businesses that are holding unregistered firearms for consignment sales. Businesses will have until December 31st, 2003 to sell the firearms to a properly licensed individual or business, or to otherwise dispose of them. Many of these firearms have been brought to the businesses from an un-licenced individual who is trying to dispose of the firearm. Businesses will not be able to take in any additional unregistered firearms after December 31, 2002. This amnesty will merely give them time to divest themselves of the firearms already in their inventories. End of Transfer Fee Waiver Last year, the $25 fee to transfer and register a firearm to a new owner was waived until December 31, 2002. This was done in consultation with businesses and the Minister's User Group on Firearms, to allow more time to adjust to the new system. The transfer fee will be reinstated as planned on January 1, 2003, coinciding with the registration deadline. As of that date, the cost of transferring a firearm will be $25 per firearm. Extension of Amnesty for Prohibited Handguns 1. Prohibited Handguns: The current amnesty allowing individuals and businesses to dispose of certain prohibited handguns that they are not eligible to possess has been extended until December 31st, 2003. The affected handguns include those with a barrel length of less than 105 mm, and handguns that discharge 25 or 32 calibre ammunition, except for a few specific guns used in International Shooting Union competitions. Individuals can keep a prohibited handgun only if both they and the handguns have grandfathered status. For the handgun to be grandfathered, an application to register it in Canada must have been submitted by February 14, 1995. For individuals to be grandfathered, they must have held the registration certificate for at least one such handgun on February 14, 1995, and have continuously had one registered in their name since December 1, 1998. Under the terms of the amnesty, individuals in unlawful possession of a prohibited handgun must dispose of it by: deactivating the handgun so that it no longer is a firearm; or, replacing the short barrel with one longer than 105 mm so that the handgun becomes a restricted firearm, and turning in the prohibited barrel to a police officer or a firearms officer; or, exporting the handgun in accordance with applicable legal requirements. Contact the Export Controls Division of the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade at (613) 996-2387 or the Registrar at (613) 998-6366 for more information; or, selling or giving the handgun to a business (including a museum) licensed under subsection 11(2) of the Firearms Act to possess such a handgun, or to a Public Service Agency; or, turning in the handgun to a Police Officer or a Firearms Officer for destruction or disposal. A non-grandfathered individual who owns a grandfathered handgun also has the option of selling or giving the handgun to a grandfathered individual who is licensed to acquire such a handgun. Some of the options are slightly different for businesses. Bill C-10 contains amendments to the Firearms Act that will change the requirements for grandfathered status for both individuals and firearms. The Bill would change the cut-off date by which an individual must have held a registration certificate for a prohibited handgun in order to be grandfathered. Under this proposal, a firearm registered by an individual by December 1, 1998 would be "grandfathered". November 2002 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:03:26 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: WHAT DID TAXPAYERS GET FOR THEIR BILLION DOLLARS? http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/whatdidtaxpayersget.htm WHAT DID TAXPAYERS GET FOR THEIR BILLION DOLLARS? By Garry Breitkreuz, MP - November 29, 2002 Just this week we have seen a headline in the Globe and Mail saying: "Gun registry to cost around $1-billion," an editorial in the National Post titled, "Time to ditch the gun registry," and the Edmonton Sun reported, "Firearms centre won't work: City Cop." We hate to say we told you so. Back in 1995, when Bill C-68, the Firearms Act, was being debated in the House of Commons, twenty Reform MPs took that opportunity to warn the government that it would cost a billion dollars to register all the guns in Canada. Then Justice Minister Allan Rock pooh-poohed our projections saying: "We have provided our estimate of the cost of implementing universal registration over the next five years. We say that it will cost $85 million. We encourage the members opposite to examine our estimates. We are confident we will demonstrate that the figures are realistic and accurate." (Hansard Page 9709 - February 16, 1995). After seven years, all Canadians now know who was right; unfortunately, the Liberal's still don't get it. On November 28, 2002, Justice Minister Martin Cauchon was still claiming in the House of Commons that the gun registry is, "...worth proceeding with such a fantastic value as protecting our society." On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, the Auditor General of Canada, Mrs. Sheila Fraser will present her report to Parliament documenting what she uncovered in her year-long financial audit of the gun registry. She has confirmed with my office that her audit only examined the costs and did, "not examine the efficiency and performance of the program." The Auditor General's report won't tell you, so I'll try to give you a snapshot of what taxpayers got for their billion-dollar "investment" in the Liberals' gun registration scheme. The most important question now is, will the Liberals waste another billion before they actually admit the complete and utter failure of their gun registry to do anything to reduce the criminal use of firearms? (1) Taxpayers got a gun registry that concentrates almost exclusively on law-abiding, responsible hunters and sport shooters instead of criminals, gangs, smugglers and terrorists; (2) taxpayers got a gun registry that has so infuriated the provincial and territorial governments that eight of them have opted out of the administration of the gun registry and the Western provinces refuse to enforce it; (3) taxpayers got a gun registry that doesn't keep track of the current addresses of the 131,000 persons prohibited from owning firearms and fails to check if their guns have been removed from their possession; (4) taxpayers got a new gun registry based on the failed 68-year-old legally-owned handgun registry that has seen a steady increase in firearms homicides committed with handguns from 27% in 1974 to 58% in 2000. Statistics Canada also reported that between 1997 and 2001, 74% of the handguns recovered from the scenes of 143 homicides were NOT registered; (5) taxpayers got a gun registry that is attempting to register all the legally-owned long guns in Canada while Statistics Canada tables show that firearms homicides with rifles and shotguns that have never been registered dropped steadily over the last 27 years, from 64% to 31%; (6) taxpayers got a gun registry that has licenced only 2 million of Canada's 3.3 million gun owners and as of February 27, 2002, had already lost track of 38,000 of them; (7) taxpayers got a gun registry that has only registered 5 million of the estimated 16.5 million guns in Canada; (8) taxpayers got a gun registry that has a firearms licence refusal and revocation rate that is one half the results achieved with the 23-year-old Firearms Acquisition Certificate program; (9) taxpayers got a gun registry that issued 5 million registration certificates that don't even have the gun owners' name on them. Eighteen million vehicle registrations have the owners' names; (10) taxpayers got a gun registry with 3.2 million registration certificates with blank and unknown entries - three-quarters of a million with no serial numbers; (11) taxpayers got a gun registry that admits to issuing 15,381 firearms licences to persons with no proof of having passed a firearms safety course; (12) taxpayers got a registry that admits to issuing 26,800 duplicate Firearms Registration Certificates, issuing 832 duplicate firearms licences and issuing 259 firearms licences with the wrong photograph; (13) taxpayers got a gun registry that prohibited more than 568,000 legally owned and registered firearms, but left police without the resources necessary to combat the criminal use of illegally-owned firearms in our major cities; (14) taxpayers got a gun registry that has increased red tape and the regulatory cost of buying a hunting rifle to $279.00 which in turn has driven hundreds of thousands of hunters out of their sport and cost our economy many millions; (15) taxpayers got a gun registry that hands out boxes of ammunition to Aboriginal people who do NOT hold a valid firearms licence; and finally, (16) taxpayers got a gun registry that will never do what the government promised - namely, tell police where the guns are. In closing, I would like to challenge taxpayers to ask themselves the next question: Where would they have liked this wasted billion dollars to have been spent - health care, defence, more police on the street, etc? Here are a couple of examples. According to the Solicitor General of Ontario, we could have put more than 10,000 police officers on our streets and highways. A billion dollars would have bought, installed and operated 238 MRIs for a year. How much pain, suffering and worry would have been alleviated and how many lives would have been saved? What a sad, sad choice the Liberal MPs and our government have made for Canadians. Garry Breitkreuz is the Member of Parliament for Yorkton-Melville, Saskatchewan, and the Official Opposition Critic for Firearms and Property Rights. For more information you can visit Garry's website at:www.garrybreitkreuz.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:04:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Qu=27ont_Obtenu_les_contribuables_en_=E9change_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?d=27un_milliard_de_dollars=3F?= Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Qu'ont Obtenu les contribuables en =E9change d'un milliard de dollars?=20 par Garry Breitkreuz, d=E9put=E9 - 29 novembre 2002=20 http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/whatdidtaxpayersgetfrancais.=htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:34:25 -0600 (CST) From: B Farion Subject: Re: $1 bn > > Does the minister have new statistics to justify wasting $1 billion of > taxpayers' money-- > The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice. Seems that, counting hidden and known spending, the cost of C-68 passed the $1,000,000,000 a year or 2 ago and is well on its way to $2,000,000,000. Remember when D. Andersons ministry was advertising thru the CWService! ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #333 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., P.O. Box 1342, Saskatoon SK S7K 3N9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered in any way.