From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #335 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, November 30 2002 Volume 05 : Number 335 In this issue: Resignation/Non renewal of Membership in NFA. my letter to The Hamilton Spectator NFA Corporate Structure. NFA Life Memberships RFC Ottawa: Gun Owner Options Before Gun Registration Day why they get the votes ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:24:30 -0600 (CST) From: AOB Subject: Resignation/Non renewal of Membership in NFA. To all NFA members and non-members who have been NFA supporters. I note that we [The RFO have once again lost another hard working active member] Mr. Hitchen now an ex Alberta NFA Director.] Three years ago Mr. D Tomlinson posted an article (in part) titled:- CHANGING THE GUARD "Sixteen years ago, Ray Laycock and I designed the NFA.Eleven years ago, I retired so I could manage the NFA full time. During all of that time, the NFA has been actively looking for people who could replace me. During all that time, people were offering to take over from me, until they discovered what the workload looked like and the fact that our Bylaws say that Executive Officers of the NFA do not get paid for their work. During my sixteen years, the NFA grew from an idea to a 100, 000member organization with Branches all across Canada. We took it as far as it could go with me at the top end. I'm a technical person, not a salesman. A couple of years ago, Jim Hinter walked into Ray's office and volunteered to help. Remarkably, he stayed even when Ray (and you know Ray!) got crusty with him. He worked, he learned, and, as time went on, he introduced new ideas and methods into the main office. The NFA bloomed". Snip. To my personal knowledge I am aware of over 43 ex NFA members among my acquaintances and as many more who are not going to renew their Membership in NFA. However per above Mr. Tomlinson claimed over 100,000 members and J.M. Hinter as of today is claiming record numbers signing up with NFA. Ladies and Gentlemen this from two ex presidents of NFA that have failed to comply with a court ordered Audit, Election & have failed to respond to NFA members demand for an accounting of all NFA monies, In addition they have failed to "Sink the C68 Titanic" as Tomlinson boldly predicted they were going to. In a short three years under the presidency of J.M. Hinter the NFA has declined to a non-entity in the firearms community in opposition to the Firearms Act. What a pitiful waste of NFA members dedication, time & money, also their hopes of successfully causing the Government to change its policy on firearms all due to Tomlinson & Hinter's exaggerated sense of self-importance & conceit. A.W Parsons NFA#4882s "FREEDOM" For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 22:57:36 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Gingrich Subject: my letter to The Hamilton Spectator On Nov.29, 2002 Morry Walfish of Hamilton wanted to know when Canadians will admit that we have a problem with guns. Actually Morry we have a problem with the criminal use of firearms not the firearms themselves. The Chretien Gun Law does very little to control the criminal use of firearms but is very effective at making "paper" criminals out of our law-abiding firearms owners. The liberal government has created a $1Billion useless inaccurate gun registry with a bloated bureaucracy (firearms cops) to control Canada's Finest (law-abiding firearms owners). All this while the real criminal elements are not affected because there is no money for law enforcement (real police). The government's firearms cops are too busy harrassing law-abiding citizens and placing them into jail. Firearms cops do not chase crooks. If the government were sincere about controlling the criminal use of firearms they would make this offence have a minimum 10 year prison term. Also any felon caught in possession of a firearm should have a 10 year prison term. This would require real police doing real police work. The worthless Chretien Gun Law should be immediately abolished as it targets law-abiding firearms owners not criminals. The $Billions saved could be used for law enforcement by real police. The Canadian government has got it wrong. This is what needs to be admitted. Repeal the Chretien Gun Law; the sooner the better. Yours in tyranny Joe Gingrich Box 2409 Nipawin Sask. SOE1EO (306)276-2158 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:38:35 -0600 (CST) From: AOB Subject: NFA Corporate Structure. Re NFA National Directors and Legal liability. Go to this site:- http://www.strategis.ic.gc.ca/ Choose English Enter the following into quick search NATIONAL PHOENIX 1984 FIREARMS INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION ASSOCIATION You will then have the Corporate # for the NFA as a Registered Canadian Company & list of the NFA National directors to name in a class action Suit for negligence and non performance of their fiscal responsibilities as directors to recover all monies spent contrary to the bylaws that they are refusing to account for. Current Canadian Director's Liability. Features Under both federal and provincial legislation, directors are exposed to substantial liabilities for the unpaid debts of their corporation: 1) they are liable to the Crown for unpaid remittances by their corporation of income or sales taxes, and of public pension plan and employment insurance premiums; 2) they are also liable to the Crown for environmental damages; and 3) they are liable to employees for unpaid wages of their corporation. Some directors' liability provisions impose absolute liability: in those cases, there is no defence. In other cases, due diligence and good faith reliance defences are available. Liability for taxes. Directors are liable for various types of taxes that corporations may fail to remit as required. The federal Income Tax Act (ITA) makes directors liable for unremitted source deductions of income taxes of employees of their company. They are also liable for unremitted Canada Pension Plan and Employment Insurance premiums, and the federal Excise Tax Act (ETA) makes them liable for unremitted corporate goods and services tax (GST) as well. At the provincial level, legislation routinely imposes liability on directors for Liability for unpaid wages. Directors are liable for unpaid wages under a variety of federal and provincial statutes. At the federal level, the CBCA makes directors liable for six months' unpaid wages and vacation pay. Directors are not liable if they relied in good faith on reports of competent professionals indicating that wages would be paid. The Canada Labour Code also imposes absolute liability on directors of companies covered by the Code for six months' wages as well as termination and severance pay. At the provincial level, directors are made personally liable for unpaid wages and, in some cases, for termination pay, in both corporations and employment standards legislation. In some cases, the liability is absolute; in others, defences of good-faith reliance on experts' reports are provided. British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec and the Northwest Territories all impose absolute liability for wages and vacation pay in their employment standards legislation. Ontario and Quebec have similar provisions in their corporations legislation. Employment standards legislation in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and the Yukon makes directors absolutely liable for termination pay as well as wages and vacation pay. In Alberta, legislation governing corporations and employment standards imposes liability on directors for unpaid wages and vacation pay, and provides a defence of believing on reasonable grounds that a corporation can pay its debts as they fall due. The corporations laws of Saskatchewan and Manitoba provide good faith reliance defences to directors against liability it imposes for unpaid wages and vacation pay, and in Saskatchewan for termination pay as well. The four Atlantic provinces do not impose liability on directors for unpaid wages. sales taxes not collected or remitted. Directors are given due diligence defences against liability under these tax provisions. For example, the ITA provides that directors are not liable for the corporation's failure to deduct or remit amounts owing if they exercised the degree of care, diligence and skill that would be exercised by a reasonably prudent person to prevent the failure. The ETA has similar wording, as do provincial statutes, which make directors liable for unremitted sales taxes and generally provide due diligence defences Liability for unpaid wages. Directors are liable for unpaid wages under a variety of federal and provincial statutes. At the federal level, the CBCA makes directors liable for six months' unpaid wages and vacation pay. Directors are not liable if they relied in good faith on reports of competent professionals indicating that wages would be paid. The Canada Labour Code also imposes absolute liability on directors of companies covered by the Code for six months' wages as well as termination and severance pay. At the provincial level, directors are made personally liable for unpaid wages and, in some cases, for termination pay, in both corporations and employment standards legislation. In some cases, the liability is absolute; in others, defences of good-faith reliance on experts' reports are provided. British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec and the Northwest Territories all impose absolute liability for wages and vacation pay in their employment standards legislation. Ontario and Quebec have similar provisions in their corporations legislation. Employment standards legislation in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and the Yukon makes directors absolutely liable for termination pay as well as wages and vacation pay. In Alberta, legislation governing corporations and employment standards imposes liability on directors for unpaid wages and vacation pay, and provides a defence of believing on reasonable grounds that a corporation can pay its debts as they fall due. The corporations laws of Saskatchewan and Manitoba provide good faith reliance defences to directors against liability it imposes for unpaid wages and vacation pay, and in Saskatchewan for termination pay as well. The four Atlantic provinces do not impose liability on directors for unpaid wages. "FREEDOM" For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:38:38 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: NFA Life Memberships Tom Zinck said: > Just to clarify things Gordon, according to Jim Hinter > (email of Oct 15), and I quote, "...the Membership in > the NFA is not a year, but twelve issues.." > > To me, this means that your membership does not expire > until you receive 12 issues of CFJ or you resign your > membership. This also means that no memberships have > expired in several months now. I questioned Jim > regarding this on the NFA Exec forum, and he did not > reply. Thus I assumed that as of Oct 15, this is > official NFA policy. Christ... the rate the NFA Fuhrer's are publishing issues of the CFJ, everybody who is presently an NFA member is a Life Member... What's Peter Cronhelm doing to justify his existence and paycheque these days? I'm almost afraid to ask... Hey Tom... you still get the NFA Exec mail and all... you figure Hinter is still the NFA president despite his term of office expiring months ago and the election being cancelled? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:38:40 -0600 (CST) From: Al Dorans Subject: RFC Ottawa: Gun Owner Options Before Gun Registration Day RFC Ottawa/FED UP Canada Protecting Canadian Freedoms ..............................=20 November 14, 2002 Gun Owner Options Before Gun Registration Day On January 1, 2003, Bill C-68: The Firearms Act legislates that all Canadian gun owners must register all of their firearms or face maximum criminal charges of 10 years in jail. For doing absolutely nothing, millions of gun owners will become instant criminals. Members of Canada's Recreational Firearms Community (RFC) have described Chretien's gun bill as the most needless, ineffective, costly, dangerous, deceptive, error-ridden, wasteful, offensive, incompetent, undemocratic and odious piece of garbage legislation ever inflicted on freedom-loving Canadians. Therefore, * Whereas universal gun registration has been tried and failed twice in Canada, due to massive gun owner non-compliance; * Whereas the Liberal government presented no scientific evidence to justify C-68/FA; * Whereas there is no evidence, whatsoever, that Canada's RCMP handgun registry reduces crime and saves lives, despite 64 years and $640 million (Gray); * Whereas C-68 is built on the totally false assumptions: 1) that crime is rising, when it is not, 2) that guns pose a threat to Canadians, when they do not, 3) that gun owners are a threat to society, when they are not, the Firearms Act is fatally flawed to the core and cannot be salvaged; * Whereas the Canadian government no longer trusts law-abiding citizens with their legally owned private property, namely firearms; * Whereas there has been a monumental breakdown of trust between the federal government and Canada's 5-7 million responsible firearms owners who were lied to and deceived repeatedly by Liberal politicians, especially by former Justice Minister Allan Rock; * Whereas the Canadian public has been duped on the gun issue through false statistics, flawed surveys, bogus polls, fraudulent research and a largely biased anti gun media; * Whereas firearms owners are statistically the safest citizens in Canadian society; * Whereas civilian firearms ownership deters criminal activity and mass killings (Lott); * Whereas criminals fear armed homeowners more than the police (Wright and Rossi); * Whereas Canadians use firearms 60,000-80,000 each year for self protection against animals and criminals (Mauser and Buckner); * Whereas firearms are a net benefit to society and save up to 75 lives in North America for every life lost with a firearm (Lott, Kopel, Mauser, Buckner, Kleck, Suter); * Whereas the 3 best countries/170 in which to live are Canada, the USA and Norway, the countries with the greatest number of guns are the USA, Norway and Canada; * Whereas gun owner licensing and registration have failed in every country where they have been implemented, including Canada; * Whereas wherever gun registration has been tried, gun confiscation followed, including Canada; * Whereas there is clear documented evidence that the United Nations, globalization New World Order agenda, spearheaded by Canada and Japan, is to disarm all world civilians of their private firearms; * Whereas 1600 pages of complex gun laws intimidate Canada's 5-7 million gun owners and provide a flimsy pretext for sweeping police powers and home invasions; * Whereas C-68/FA was sold to the public on an $85 million price tag and a promise that C-68 would be scrapped if it ever reached $150 million, the cost has soared to $1 billion officially, and to $3 billion unofficially; * Whereas the Canadian shooting sports, a $6 billion economic industry employing 33,000 workers and generating 33,000 taxpayers, is being deliberately destroyed; * Whereas C-68/FA violates the Constitutional and Charter rights, the Privacy rights, the Civil liberties and the Private Property rights of all Canadians, including: the Right to Liberty, the Right to Security of the Person, the Right to Procedural Fairness, the Rights Against Unreasonable Search and Seizure, the Right to Privacy, the Right to be Presumed Innocent, the Right Against Arbitrary Detention, the Right to Counsel Upon Arrest or Detention, the Right to Freedom of Expression, the Right to Bear Arms, the Right to Property, and the Rights to Equality. (Morton, Breitkreuz) * Whereas the government has made a conscious decision to waste at least $3.5 billion over-regulating law-abiding firearms owners for absolutely no gain in reduced crime and saved lives and in the process is sacrificing the lives of at least 60,000 Canadians who die annually from heart disease (80,000), cancer (60,000) and lung disease (20,000); * Whereas C-68/FA is a bad law, it must be repealed and replaced with reasonable legislation that reduces crime, saves lives and is cost effective. It is recommended that before gun registration day on January 1, 2003, members of Canada's RFC be informed that firearms owners are considering a range of major options before deciding what to do. All choices have advantages and disadvantages. The RFC takes a neutral position on these options. Option #1: Register all firearms, under written protest. The problem with registration is that gun confiscation is sure to follow. Firearms will be devalued. Now the police will know who owns guns, where they are located, the number of guns and the types of guns. A gun registry will be a veritable shopping list for criminals. They will hack into the registry and know exactly where to steal guns and precisely which homes are undefended. With privatization, personal security will be at greater risk. Personal privacy fears are also real and legitimate. Hence, Canadians will be less safe in their homes. Private property will be seized by the gun police and destroyed without just and swift compensation. Firearms owners could face 5 years in jail, if any mistake is made on the registration forms, by anyone. Failure to register all firearms carries a 10 year maximum jail term. Compliance will lead to the next round of restrictions and confiscations. Error rates with registration will soar. Costs will skyrocket. Participation in the licensing and registration sections of C-68/FA violates the Constitutional, Charter, Civil and Privacy rights of Canadians, as well as the state stealing their Private Property. If gun owners own more than 10 guns, they could be visited by the gun police at any unscheduled time. Firearms organizations that advocate gun registration could be placing themselves in an untenable position and liable for recommending that Canadians violate their Charter rights. Option #2: Register all firearms, under written protest, with a written proviso. Since most gun owners are not experts in firearms identification, many have no desire to risk the intimidating and ridiculously unjust penalty of 5 years in jail, in the event a judge rules that an inadvertent error made, by anyone, was deliberate. A gun owner statement is issued that compliance will be completed, in protest, upon the Department of Justice sending a qualified technical expert to identify and register firearms at a time convenient to the firearms owner. This will be excessively time consuming, very expensive and may take several decades to implement. Another approach being chosen by some gun owners to avoid severe penalties, is to write "Unknown" in appropriate spaces and leave others blank. They have no wish to risk providing incorrect information. Option #3: Register some firearms, under written protest. Some firearms owners are contemplating registering hunting guns, such as one duck gun and one deer rifle. They plan to hide the rest until such time as a friendly government replaces the Liberals and scraps C-68. In the meantime, they would lose the use of these firearms, unless they took the risk of being caught and prosecuted in the field. Penalties range up to 10 years in jail for failure to register all guns. Non-compliance could lead to surprise visits by the gun police and criminal charges laid. Option #4: Do nothing. Some hope that the registry is so flawed that the Department of Justice has no information on them. Besides, it may take years before the government has sufficient resources to get around to them, eventually. Again, police visiting homes would be excessively time consuming and astronomically costly. Others hope that with massive non-compliance the registry will collapse under its own sheer weight, administrative bungling and costs. Then again, thousands of gun owners are so uninformed and unaware that licensing and registration are even required. Option #5: Register no firearms, deliberately. This can be done quietly or with a written protest. This is civil disobedience. Many gun owners feel that the government has no business in the bedrooms or the recreational rooms of the nation. Why should you have to license yourself or register your own legal private property, if you are a responsible citizen? There is no crime problem in Canada, no gun problem, and no threat from gun owners, the statistically safest citizens in society. With the Kyoto Accord, what would be next on the government's hit list? 8 cylinder trucks? 2 cycle outboard motors and lawnmowers? A case for civil disobedience was supplied by the Brockville Recorder and Times (Dec.18, 2000). Editors at the BRT wrote wisely that Canadians should obey the rule of law, even if they disagree with that law. However, are Canadians required to obey the rule of "bad law"? Their response: "Yes, there are rare occasions, when the law clearly violates fundamental rights or when it is so abhorrent that it offends basic principles of decency, in which civil disobedience is not only permissible, but necessary." For millions of gun owners and Canadians, C-68/FA is such an offensive law. Compliance with gun owner licensing is about 30%. Compliance with gun registration is about 20%. Reporter Lorne Gunter, Edmonton Journal, called C-68/FA, "The greatest act of civil disobedience in the history of Canada." The documented error rate for firearms licenses is 71%. The documented error rate for gun registration applications is 132% (Breitkreuz). In summary, Liberal Member of Parliament, Roger Galloway, evaluated the gun registry as "a shambles", "a joke", and so far, "1250%" over financial projections. Given the foregoing, it is recommended that Canada's firearms organizations unite in common agreement to 1) inform firearms owners of the previous major options and 2) advise gun owners to make their own personal choices on gun registration, by letting their consciences be their guides. When Canadian firearms owners are free and informed, they can find their own best ways. Please communicate this message, swiftly and widely, to all gun owners and firearms organizations in the RFC, before January 1, 2003. Without delay, send a copy of this letter, along with your own views, to your provincial and federal Members of Parliament. Professor Al Dorans Director, RFC Ottawa Chairman, FED UP Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:56:01 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: why they get the votes ? In a message dated 11/29/2002 10:04:20 PM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > - I agree with you Bruce, Good Letter- but trying to get the Liberals > > admit they made a mistake will be a chore. They feel they're always > right, > > and never make mistakes- they feel that it is only they who know what's > best > > for Canadians, and that we are too stupid and incompetant to think for > > ourselves - we need government to think and make our decisions for us ( > like > > we were pets or somthing ) > The trouble is, how did Rock, Stewart, Copps, Manely etc. get > re-elected???? That ones easy to answer- There will always be a segment of feminist liberals and others in society who vote based on emotion, instead of facts and logic. Many of these same people are simply diehard liberals who think their party has all the answers for all people- and they are the party of kindness- who can do no evil. - - In their minds, all others with opposing views are nothing more than extremists and right wing radicals who cannot be trusted and must be fought tooth and nail. People like Wendy Cukier basically fall into this catagory quite nicely. - - They feed on the views of their american anti-gun counterparts like HCI , Americans for Gun Safety,etc ... and adapt the propaganda to suit Canadian anti-gun agendas. They quote the same statistics, and old debunked studies, etc. while trying to sound like they have just invented the wheel or somthing, and this old/stale statistical propaganda is some type of scientific breakthrough that should astound everyone. - - but back to your statement- why do these people get re-elected ? ... I would guess because so many Canadians have been fed this misinformation about gun control for so long - that they accept the propaganda as facts at face value without question. - - Canadians have become both Lazy and unintellectual when it comes to Politics, their rights, etc. it is also through this very same ignorant attitude that the average Canadian has no clue about the current political activities of his government. (except for what they hear on the late night news ) - - Liberals are about the slimiest politicians on earth (next to Democrats, communists and marxist supporters) ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #335 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@shaw.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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