From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #713 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, February 3 2003 Volume 05 : Number 713 In this issue: Canadian Gunnutz Re: ...voting from jail... ARTICLE: Tax cuts won't solve growing underground economy: study Mayor Mel gets tough legal problem, not firearms related LETTER: National Post re: PAL application Re:Government now handling gun safety courses ARTICLE: Woman survives stray bullet that passed through her Another letter printed ....10-20-Life... Re: Storage requirements for Powder used in reloading... Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #711 EDITORIAL: Privacy, please Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #711 Re: This was funny !! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:58:33 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Canadian Gunnutz If anyone here is subscribed to the Canadian Gunnutz BBS website, would they please contact me directly? I am having trouble connecting and need to speak with one of the owner/operators. Thanks, Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario akimoya@sprint.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:57:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Re: ...voting from jail... >Lets not get too smug about being able to vote from jail. >That is based on the assumption that we will be accorded the same status = >as pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc. >Whats to prevent an Order In Council to preclude persons convicted under = >the provisions of C-68 from voting? >Wouldn't that be another way to stifle protest and keep people in line? > >Todd Birch >Merritt,BC ========== Has anyone done a study to see how the inmates would vote? Do they vote for the constituency of their origin or of their incarceration? Do they vote in numbers which would actually sway a decision? Alan Harper Life NFA Life CSSA alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:43:53 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Tax cuts won't solve growing underground economy: study http://www.nationalpost.com/utilities/story.html?id={27D78B82-ED16-4F4E-9CB4-FF28D54769DF} Tax cuts won't solve growing underground economy: study $44B per year in revenue lost, experts estimate Eric Beauchesne Southam News Monday, February 03, 2003 OTTAWA - Recent tax cuts may have been too little too late to wean cheats off an underground economy that, fed by two decades of tax increases, has ballooned to the size of the economies of British Columbia and Saskatchewan combined. While higher taxes drive people into the underground economy, lower taxes won't necessarily lure them back into the above-ground economy, say tax specialists, including the author of a major study into the problem. Tax cheaters may have become too comfortable in the simpler and more lucrative hidden economy, said Lindsay Tedds, co-author of Taxes and the Canadian Underground Economy. The study estimates the underground economy had grown to nearly 16% of the above-ground economy by the mid-1990s from 3.5% in the early 1970s. That would suggest that $130-billion a year in income from both legal and illegal activities was being hidden from Canadian governments and not taxed, costing them $44-billion a year in lost revenues. "One of the authors' principal findings is that there is a strong association between increases in effective tax rates and increases in the size of th e underground economy," noted a summary of the study's findings in the latest edition of the Canadian Tax Journal, published by the Canadian Tax Foundation, an industry research organization. The reverse, however, is not necessarily the case, Ms. Tedds said this week. "The period of high taxation drives people into the underground economy where they establish close relationships and social networks between other people who are active in the underground economy," she said. "In addition, the profits are higher and the investments in real and human capital are lower in the underground economy. "As a result, once they become active in the hidden sector, there is little incentive to transfer back to the observed economy, even over the long run," she said. "This implies that major tax reforms may only be able to stabilize the size of the underground economy, rather than shrink it," she said, adding further research will be needed to see what, if any, impact the tax cuts by Ottawa and the provinces have had on the underground economy. David Perry, economist with the Canadian Tax Foundation, disagreed in part. "If you see a reduction in tax rates you should see a reduction in the size of the underground economy," he said. "The rewards for cheating are less because tax rates are less." He agreed, however, that recent tax cuts may not have been enough to shrink the underground economy, in part because the study also found that economic growth in the above-ground economy feeds growth in the underground economy. "There's a sort of direct relationship there that could overpower the reduction in taxes," Mr. Perry said. He also noted that about half of the $130-billion-a-year estimate for the size of the underground economy comes from illegal activity. Unlike the unreported income from legal activities, the illegal portion would not be reduced by lower taxes. "That's the sort of potential tax revenue that you'll never get," Mr. Perry said. But criminal activity aside, Ms. Tedds said people engage and remain in the underground economy for a variety of reasons. "Other issues, such as the regulatory burden, indirect taxation [such as the GST], perceived fairness of the tax system, social security contributions, payroll taxes, and enforcement also affect a person's decision to participate in and/or remain in the underground economy," she said. "As a result, a change in just one factor that drives this sector may not have much of an impact. "A government aiming to decrease underground economic activity has to first and foremost analyze the complex and frequently contradictory relationships," she said. And they haven't, added Mr. Perry. "Governments have done little else in the way of adjusting policies to tackle the underground economy, other than step up enforcement in recent years" he said. © Copyright 2003 National Post ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:00:01 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Ramsey Subject: Mayor Mel gets tough >From InsideToronto.ca Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman is asking Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino to increase the volume on a growing chorus seeking stiffer penalties for gun-related crimes. Lastman requested the chief file a report citing specific recommendations to toughen gun laws before the March 27 meeting of the Toronto Police Services Board. That report is intended to then be approved by the board and forwarded to the federal minister of justice as cause to amend the Canadian Criminal Code to provide for stronger penalties for gun-related crime. "Let's stop these damn gun criminals as fast as we can," Lastman said at a meeting of the Toronto Police Services Board Thursday. "I want people to be terrified of the consequences if they use a gun. If it only saves one life, it's worth it. ********************** Wendy will love Mayor Mel's last line. Wasn't Mayor Mel at one time in favour of making Toronto a gun-free zone? Isn't he echoing what firearm owners have been saying for decades? I don't understand why these politicians take so long to see the light. It's lke erecting four-way stop signs at a dangerous intersection after 20 people die in auto accidents. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:01:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: legal problem, not firearms related Here's a question. Perhaps, some of you have had experience with it. We want to get a copy of the records of a condo corporation, specifically the records of which parking spot was originally assigned to which condo, and more specifically which parking spot was assigned to my wife's condo, when the place was built. She still owns the condo. The place was built in the 70's. Also, we would not like to tell the condo corporation board of directors exactly what we are looking for. We don't want to let the cat out of the bag, regarding our intentions. Any ideas? Perhaps there is a simple way to do it. I am not experienced in this area. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:10:41 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: LETTER: National Post Not terribly on topic, but it's a slow news day...an interesting look into the evolution of the tax and monetary systems and their effects on our country's economy. http://www.nationalpost.com/utilities/story.html?id={A773370D-E4A9-445A-96FD-CE8CDF05E0E7} Re: A Discordant Note in Paul Martin Hallelujah Chorus, Feb. 1 Although I have no comment on who is Canada's best finance minister, I am disturbed by what John Turley-Ewart finds laudatory about Sir Thomas White. Are we to be thankful for White's introduction of income taxes? In taking Canada off the gold standard in 1914, White breached the right to redeem bank notes (really warehouse receipts) for the gold that Canadians had deposited for safekeeping. No doubt the state arrogated the power to do so; but, done by anyone else, it would be honestly called theft. In Canada's Finance Act, 1914, White socialized the previously private function of credit banking. That allowed creation of paper money by the state printing press, without backing by real assets, and paved the way for price inflation -- a "modernized" version of coin clipping. That operation is honestly called counterfeiting. The purpose of these acts was the power "to steer the economy rather than allow it to drift on the tides of economic chance." It is no friend of capitalism that uses "chance" for the system of property rights, voluntary contracting and trade; and uses "steer" for a system that was later to be labelled fascism. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:11:45 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Snow Subject: re: PAL application > From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Check > this out > > The CFC has an on line form that one can download to your computer to print out on your printer to allow you to apply for a PAL: > > http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/e-services/licence/licence.asp > > Sounds convenient, eh? > > Why does it take a couple of hours to download at 56K? Why does it > require runing an executable file? Why does it require installing files > that alter your operating system? > Wasn't this the program that they claim helps you fill out the simple form? I tried this two hour download and never got it to work when it was done. > If I wanted to make a simple form available, I'd either have it as an > HTML, a JPEG or an ADOBE PDF file. In fact I have at: > > http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/Reg_Frm_Frt.html > > There is no need whatsoever for a 400 meg file to be downloaded just to > get a simple form. In fact, after a bit more looking, I found the form > as an ADOBE PDF at: > I still have been unable to find a renewal form for my licence. It was close to expiry so I finally took this PDF and filled out the first section with name and address, (part A), wrote renewal on part B, filled out part C (photo guarantor), wrote renewal on part D and E, signed it, part F and sent it in with a new photo. > http://cfc.gc.ca/en/forms_assistance/PDFs/888e.pdf > > Am I being paranoid or do you think they are putting surveillance > software on the user's machine as a Trojan Horse? You never know... > > - -- > If this is being done it is by the software developer and quite frankly I have seen no evidence of any quality programming from either this file, the FaRT disk or any of their web pages. In other words, I don't think they could do this if they wanted. The rest of the system is such a complete mess that they would build a Trojan horse without the required secret door. BTW, weren't they supposed to send renewal notices like every other agency in North America? e.g.: driver's licence, car registration, car insurance, magazine subscriptions, club memberships, political party memberships, etc. Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:16:15 -0600 (CST) From: "dhammoa175" Subject: Re:Government now handling gun safety courses > Subject: NEWS: Government now handling gun safety courses > > http://sask.cbc.ca/template/servlet/View?filename=gunsafety030201 > Government now handling gun safety courses > > REGINA - The federal government has taken over firearms safety in the > province. Another indication that this government trusts no one who does not work for it. DH "Understand, too, that there's no such thing as a "liberal". It's a word socialists and statists use to evade being properly identified." (Aaron Zellman, JPFO) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:39:03 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Woman survives stray bullet that passed through her http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20030203/UCOPSM/Headlines/headdex/headdexNational_temp/14/14/16/ Woman survives stray bullet that passed through her By JAMES RUSK Monday, February 3, 2003 – Print Edition, Page A18 A Toronto woman narrowly escaped becoming the city's latest fatal victim of a street shooting early Saturday morning when a random bullet passed through her without hitting a vital organ. The 26-year-old woman was walking on Queen Street West near Elmgrove Avenue in the city's Parkdale area about 1:40 a.m., and "as she passed a group gathered on the sidewalk, she heard a noise and later discovered she had been shot in the chest," according to a Toronto Police Service statement yesterday. "At the time, she didn't realize she'd been shot," Staff Sergeant Steve Francis of 14 Division said. "She was very lucky. The bullet passed through her without hitting any vital organs and without any major damage." The woman, whose name the police are not releasing at this time, was treated at St. Michael's Hospital and released. Since the victim was the unlucky target of a stray bullet, the police have no motive, and Staff Sgt. Francis said that any possible list, or even the number of suspects, is "pretty wide open" at this point in the investigation. Police are asking for people with any information on the incident to contact them or Crime Stoppers. It is slightly more than a month since the city experienced a deadly wave of street shootings. Four people were shot to death in separate incidents that occurred in just over an hour in late December, 2002. Despite the year-end incidents, Toronto Police feel the city is no more dangerous than last year. Although there were 48 homicides in the city in the second half of 2002, there were 60 homicides in the full year, exactly the same as there were in 2000 and 2001. Copyright © 2003 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:43:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Nick & Michelle" Subject: Another letter printed And they just keep on coming! THE MISSISSAUGA NEWS Guns are us Dear Editor: The Mississauga News Feb 2, 2003 Regarding your recent rant against private firearm ownership...I think you might just be on to something there. Of late we have been struggling with a spate of difficulties in certain "seedy" publications and your solution may be effective there as well. Let's ban books, lets ban newspapers. After all, Canada does not enjoy a first amendment like our demented friends to the south. As has been said before, "The pen is mightier than the sword," having been proven thousands of times in the world's history. Just imagine the blissful existence we could live if we did not have a "free press" standing by to point out the failings of our elected officials. The argument the people need free speech is a silly idea touted by radical elements in Canadian society. I say do away with them. Oh, as for guns. I do hope that your editorial was satire and either that or you have no grasp of either history or reality. John Evers Guelph ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:07:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: ....10-20-Life... Fantino's formula for dealing with firearms crime is so logical, would = be so effective, act as such a deterrent that it has almost no chance of = getting off the ground. What a grand political legacy for Chretien to = leave behind! I'm sure that there would be any number of Charter of Rights based = reasons why it couldn't be implemented. If the feds were serious about 'gun control crime', the Montreal = massacre would have been the perfect show case to implement such a = program. Even now, it would be an effective tool against 'gang bangers' and 7-11 = hold up artists. They ain't listenin' and they just don't get it. Or - they do, and its = us who ain't listenin' and don't get it. Todd Birch Merritt, BC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:22:42 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Youngson Subject: Re: Storage requirements for Powder used in reloading... - --- "E. John Wilson" wrote: > > I have been searching the WWW for info re: storage > of reloading powder > regulations here in Canada, so far not much luck, > anyone know what type > of powder magazine would be suitable for home use > and quantity of powder > that can be owned at one time? Thanks John... This all falls under Natural Resaources Canada. Please see: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/explosif/pub/publi_e.html For Bulletin #8, which pertains to this subject in detail, please see: http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/explosif/pdf/8.pdf Happy reloading Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:30:10 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #711 In a message dated 2/3/2003 7:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > Bruce, That would make a Great RFC Member Bumper Sticker !! > > It's called the Gadsden Flag and was used during the American Revolutionary > War. > > http://www.claremont.org/writings/000612robinson.html?FORMAT=print ..If you seen the movie "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson, the same flag flew in the backround of their battlesecenes, along with the early American flag. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:45:22 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: EDITORIAL: Privacy, please http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/editorials/story.asp?id=97A02F7C-7E32-4AC0-93D3-76980974FD97 Privacy, please The government is wrong to encroach on our lives The Ottawa Citizen Editorial Monday, February 03, 2003 On Dec. 15, 1890, an article titled "The Right to Privacy" appeared in the Harvard Law Review. It addressed the threat new technologies of that century -- such as cameras and high-speed printing presses -- posed to individual privacy. "The intensity and complexity of life ... have rendered necessary some retreat from the world, and man, under the refining influence of culture, has become more sensitive to publicity, so that solitude and privacy have become more essential to the individual," the article concluded. More than 100 years later, we hear echoes of these concerns in the latest report from federal Privacy Commissioner George Radwanski. "The right not to be known against our will -- indeed, the right to be anonymous except when we choose to identify ourselves -- is at the very core of human dignity, autonomy and freedom," he wrote in his Annual Report to Parliament released last week. In Mr. Radwanski's judgment, the Liberal government is failing in its duty to protect Canadians' privacy. He says the government has used the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks "as an excuse for new collections and uses of personal information about all Canadians that cannot be justified by the requirements of anti-terrorism and that, indeed, have no place in a free and democratic society." How has the government reacted to his strong warning? Dismissively. "We all know the commissioner," shrugged Immigration Minister Denis Coderre. This is not an appropriate response to an officer of Parliament. Whether it agrees with everything he says or not, the government has a duty to take Mr. Radwanski seriously. And so it should, given the concerns he raises. They include: - - The Canada Customs and Revenue Agency is planning a database to collect information on all people who enter or leave Canada by air. The danger is that the agency will accumulate dossiers on law-abiding citizens that could be misused. If, for example, you frequently travel to Southeast Asia, it is possible some analyst will look at your file and speculate you're a client of the region's child sex trade. Mr. Radwanski has repeatedly asked Revenue Minister Elinor Caplan to limit the uses of the database to anti-terrorism purposes. "She flatly refuses." - - Government anti-terrorism legislation enhances the power of police and security agencies to monitor e-mail, cellphones and the Internet. According to Mr. Radwanski, the legislation effectively requires de facto mandatory self-identification to the police and, as such, is "a highly intrusive activity that strikes at the heart of the right to privacy." - - Mr. Coderre recently floated the notion of a national identity card. That, says Mr. Radwanski, would "remove our right to anonymity in our day-to-day lives." Mr. Radwanski does Canadians a service in pointing out the potential such measures have for changing our society. It is unreasonable for authorities to use surveillance technology for "fishing expeditions" (their use when investigators have reason to be suspicious is justified, and can be controlled through search warrants). Indeed, the Ontario Court of Appeal recently ruled against police flying over neighbourhoods with infrared aerial cameras on random searches for marijuana operations, arguing that even if this was convenient, it violated the privacy of people in that neighbourhood. In pre-modern societies, people were subjected to the constant surveillance of the "community." It was the development of liberal societies that freed the individual from the tyranny of the group. Mr. Radwanski's report boldly challenges government's assumption that it can invade privacy at its whim. Too bad the cabinet isn't listening. © Copyright 2003 The Ottawa Citizen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:46:05 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #711 Vulcun1isback@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/3/2003 7:19:36 AM Central Standard Time, > owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > > > Bruce, That would make a Great RFC Member Bumper Sticker !! > > > > It's called the Gadsden Flag and was used during the American Revolutionary > > War. > > > > http://www.claremont.org/writings/000612robinson.html?FORMAT=print > > ..If you seen the movie "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson, the same flag flew > in the backround of their battlesecenes, along with the early American flag. It is also the flag that flies on the Capitol building of Charlestown SC, before it switches to the Union Jack after it is occupied by the British. Just watched it on TBS Superstation last night. Great movie - should be in every gun rights activist's film library. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:46:59 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: This was funny !! In a message dated 2/3/2003 7:33:06 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > , Mr. Manley focused on social issues, not > economics. That was an apparent bid to shift left, to counter his image as > an economy-minded, right-leaning Liberal. ...I'm sorry, but that Part about "Right-leaning" really made split a side - -but when in Alberta, a Conservative Province - it helps your image with voters if your "friends" in the media call you "Right-Leaning" huh ? ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #713 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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