From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #719 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, February 4 2003 Volume 05 : Number 719 In this issue: Gun registy will take up to $500 million more to fix Minister Of Justice Releases Results Of Independent Gun Control Program Reviews Reports Offer Fix for Bloated Gun Registry ... (fwd) Five men drown hunting ducks in Newfoundland Ottawa ne pourra récupérer les sommes investies dans le programme des armes à feu Clifford Olson Billboards Gun Registartion. My letter to the Ottawa Citizen My letter to the Edmonton Journal Re: STEREOTYPING Columbine testimony Re: Chalk up One for the "Good Guys" !! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:03:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Gun registy will take up to $500 million more to fix NOTE: Versions of this story also appeared in: The Montreal Gazette, Times Colonist (Victoria), and the Calgary Herald. PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2003.02.04 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A1 / Front BYLINE: Tim Naumetz SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen NOTE: Back off: Gun registry foes target urban dwellers, page B1. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun registy will take up to $500 million more to fix - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The federal firearms registry could cost more than $500 million over the next 10 years unless the government streamlines the program and begins collecting licence and registration fees from gun owners, an independent study has found. Even with major changes to the registry and its requirements, combined with stiff fees for licensing and registering firearms, the price tag will reach almost $300 million, says the private-sector study commissioned by Justice Minister Martin Cauchon. The study was conducted by former federal bureaucrat Ray Hession and HLB Decision Economics Inc. It recommends the federal Justice Department and the Quebec government merge the two processing sites for licensing and registration -- in Miramichi, N.B., and in Montreal -- into one location. In a detailed 65-page report on the massive problems facing the registry and a $1-billion cost overrun so far, Mr. Hession recommended the Justice Department abandon some of the complex requirements and reporting procedures that are now facing firearms owners. Those include dropping the requirement for authorization to transport restricted and prohibited firearms, removal of the requirement for weapons owners to produce licences and registration certificates, relaxation of import and export requirements and removal of a requirement for owners to provide specific purposes for owning prohibited firearms. The Justice Department waived licensing fees and registration fees over the last two years to coax owners into complying with the law. Auditor General Sheila Fraser cited the waivers as one of the chief reasons for cost overruns. Mr. Hession's report said his recommendations would not affect the public safety goals of the program. Mr. Hession also disclosed that development of a new computer system to serve as the centralized registry, one of the most crucial and costly aspects of the program, has been delayed by several months. The two companies that won a $34-million contract last year to develop the system and operate it for the Canadian Firearms Centre -- CGI Group Inc. and BCP Business Data Services Ltd. -- were unable to complete the work by a deadline of last Jan. 9. Mr. Hession said that while the two firms have indicated they expect the project to be complete by mid-year, he does not expect it to be ready until the end of the year. Mr. Hession, a former federal deputy minister, blamed the ballooning price tag on "flawed assumptions" that underestimated the scope of the project when it was being planned in 1994 and 1995. As the program developed, the registry computer system went through almost 2,000 changes at the request of various users, including the government, police and the firearms community. That resulted in the number of "function points" in the system to multiply from 900 to 12,000 over a five-year period. Mr. Hession compared building the registry to the pyramids that were constructed in ancient Egypt, saying "it got a lot more complicated than anyone believed at the get-go." "I wouldn't describe it as a mess, I would describe it as a struggle," said Mr. Hession. "I don't care if you put Superman in charge, it's a tough, tough job." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:04:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Minister Of Justice Releases Results Of Independent Gun Control Program Reviews http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/review_feb2003/default.asp Minister Of Justice Releases Results Of Independent Gun Control Program Reviews OTTAWA, February 3, 2003 - The Honourable Martin Cauchon, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, today tabled in Parliament two reports from independent experts on Canada's gun control program. The first report, by consulting firm KPMG, has allowed the Department of Justice to confirm that the necessary systems are in place to ensure the integrity and completeness of relevant financial data. This work has provided the Department with confidence that the information compiled on past expenditures is accurate. This information is what was reported to Parliament in the Public Accounts. The second, by independent management consultant Raymond Hession, makes 16 recommendations for improving the management and operations of the Firearms Program. Minister Cauchon noted that for the past three years, the costs of the program have continued to decline. The Hession report concludes that, with a one-time investment to re-engineer key infrastructure and business processes, faster and more significant savings can be realized in future years. Minister Cauchon said he will consider the reports and, fulfilling his commitment to Parliament and to Canadians to take prompt action, will release an action plan as soon as possible in the next few weeks. "The Government is committed to improving the efficiency of the Firearms Program and further reducing its cost," Minister Cauchon said. "These two reports will be useful in helping us achieve these two objectives without in any way sacrificing our goal of increased public safety for all Canadians." In releasing the reports, Minister Cauchon reiterated the government's commitment to both the registration of firearms and the licencing of firearms owners as the two pillars of the Program. "These reports clearly indicate there is no quick fix. We must make some tough choices on the management of this program, which continues to be supported by a majority of Canadians." The Hession report includes recommendations to: provide better service to the public and reintroduce online registration; develop an annual audit plan for all major components of the program; establish a Program Advisory Council to oversee the program; consolidate employees into one headquarters site and consolidate processing sites split now between Miramichi and Montreal; freeze the development of new software for all but emergency requirements; strengthen financial accountability by creating a Comptroller position; and examine additional legislative changes to reduce program delivery costs and overhead, and improve client service. - - 30 - NOTE: Supporting technical documentation available at the Department of Justice (613) 957-4207. Ref.: Mike Murphy Special Assistant - Communications Office of the Minister of Justice 613) 992-4621 David Austin Communications and Public Affairs Canadian Firearms Centre (613) 941-5371 Internet: http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/en A Review of the Management and Administration of the Canadian Firearms Program http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/review_feb2003/rev iew.asp KPMG Transmittal Letter http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/review_feb2003/pdf /kpmglet.pdf Report of Findings From the Performance of Specified Procedures http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/review_feb2003/pdf /final%20report.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:05:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Reports Offer Fix for Bloated Gun Registry ... (fwd) Letter to the Post in response to today's article ... unpublished. Dear Sir/Madame, Mr. Cauchon lets slip a juxtaposition indicative of the true intent of the Firearms Act: "These two reports will be useful in helping us achieve these objectives without in any way sacrificing our goal of increased public safety". It implies that the policy objectives and public safety are two different goals. I am lead to wonder at exactly what the policy objectives of the Canadian Firearms act actually are, as they have never been publicly stated, nor can they be obtained in written form. If the policy objectives are to create a punitive regulatory environment to drive the responsible firearms enthusiast out of their sport, then by this measure the Firearms Act is a resounding success. If on the other hand, the policy objectives of the Firearms Act are to increase the public safety, then it is a cataclysmic and abysmal failure. Which is it? Certainly our federal government would not be so crass as to stoop to social re-engineering, would they? Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:09:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Richard A. Fritze" Subject: Five men drown hunting ducks in Newfoundland Five men drown hunting ducks in Newfoundland Surviving son was conscious enough to tell his rescuers, 'Everybody's all drowned except me': Boat capsizes Richard Foot National Post Tuesday, February 04, 2003 CREDIT: Scott Cook, The Telegram People gather on the wharf yesterday in Musgrave Harbour, Nfld., where six duck hunters set out from on Sunday. Five died when their boat sank. Five men, including a father and two sons, died before dawn yesterday when their boat capsized during a duck-hunting trip off northeast Newfoundland, the lone survivor left to stumble across ice and marsh in the dark looking for help. The men were on a trip to the Wadham Islands, an archipelago of small, marshy islands about 15 kilometres offshore from Musgrave Harbour, a fishing community north of Gander. The survivor, who saw his father and two brothers drown, was rescued by duck hunters from another boat, whose crew members discovered the young man stumbling on the ice toward them, almost overcome by hypothermia. "He was conscious enough to say, 'Everybody's all drowned except me,' " said Edison Easton, who helped ferry the survivor to safety. "We're very shaken up," Mr. Easton said in an interview yesterday. "It's a terrible ordeal. They were all friends of ours." The hazards of the sea are well-known in Newfoundland's coastal villages, yet the loss of five men on a midwinter food-gathering mission is still proving hard to fathom. "This is the biggest tragedy we've had in many, many years," said Roland Abbott, the 90-year-old curator of Musgrave Harbour's Fishermen's Museum. Fishing crews from the town chase crab and scallop in the summer. In winter, they journey in longliners and smaller boats to the Wadham Islands, where sea ducks gather on the icy marshes. The hunters leave after midnight and anchor in the islands' small coves, or "tickles," where they lie in wait for the ducks to fly at first light. snip Full story at: http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id={D8A58C89-0E1B-433C-B6DB-CC70 00EE33B0} ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:19:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Ottawa ne pourra récupérer les sommes investies dans le programme des armes à feu PUBLICATION: La Presse DATE: 2003.02.04 SECTION: Canada PAGE: A5 BYLINE: Bellavance, Joël-Denis DATELINE: Ottawa - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ottawa ne pourra récupérer les sommes investies dans le programme des armes à feu - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Le gouvernement Chrétien se berce d'illusions s'il croit pouvoir récupérer un jour les centaines de millions de dollars qu'il a investis afin de mettre sur pied le controversé régime national des armes à feu. Telle est l'une des conclusions d'un rapport commandé par le ministre de la Justice, Martin Cauchon, afin de déterminer les moyens de mieux gérer ce programme qui aura coûté aux contribuables près d'un milliard de dollars d'ici 2005, soit 500 fois le coût prévu à l'origine. Ce rapport, rédigé par Raymond Hession à un coût de 92 000 $, conclut, à l'instar de la vérificatrice générale Sheila Fraser, que la gestion du programme canadien des armes à feu est "inutilement complexe et coûteuse" depuis le début. "Les quelque 400 millions de dollars investis en vue de la création des dossiers électroniques massifs du registre des permis et des armes à feu ne pourront pas être récupérés à partir des recettes futures tirées des droits exigibles", soutient M. Hession dans son rapport de 31 pages déposé hier à la Chambre des communes. D'emblée, M. Hession se montre sévère à l'endroit de l'ancien ministre de la Justice, Allan Rock, aujourd'hui ministre de l'Industrie. Il affirme que la prévision de M. Rock selon laquelle la mise sur pied du registre national des armes à feu coûterait aux contribuables environ deux millions de dollars une fois les recettes découlant des droits de permis et d'enregistrement comptabilisées, "était clairement fondée sur des hypothèses erronées". En tout, M. Hession formule 16 recommandations dans son rapport visant à améliorer la gestion du programme, dont l'une propose de regrouper à un seul endroit les activités du bureau central de traitement, qui sont réparties à Montréal et à Miramichi, au Nouveau-Brunswick. Il propose de créer un poste de "contrôleur financier" qui serait épaulé par une équipe de 14 agents financiers afin d'éviter les dépassements de coûts énormes du passé. Il recommande aussi de créer un conseil consultatif chargé de surveiller le programme et de continuer à offrir un service d'enregistrement des armes par Internet. Le ministre Cauchon, qui a aussi déposé hier aux Communes une autre étude réalisée par la firme comptable KPMG portant sur la comptabilisation des coûts reliés à ce programme lors des exercices financiers 2000-2001 et 2001-2002, a indiqué qu'il étudiera les recommandations avant d'annoncer un plan d'action pour réduire les coûts. "Le gouvernement s'est engagé à améliorer l'efficacité du programme des armes à feu et à en réduire encore davantage les coûts. Ces deux rapports seront utiles pour atteindre ces deux objectifs sans pour autant sacrifier celui de rehausser la sécurité de toute la population canadienne", a déclaré M. Cauchon. "Ces rapports indiquent clairement qu'il n'y a pas de solution rapide. Nous devons faire des choix difficiles quant à la gestion de ce programme, que la majorité des Canadiens et des Canadiennes appuient", a ajouté le ministre. Le rapport produit par la firme KPMG, qui a coûté 60 000 $ aux contribuables, a passé au peigne fin les détails financiers du programme au cours des deux derniers exercices financiers, qui s'élèvent en tout à 337 millions. La firme entend soumettre des recommandations au cours des prochains jours pour permettre d'améliorer les contrôles financiers du registre. L'Alliance canadienne et le Parti conservateur ont vertement critiqué hier les rapports déposés aux Communes, estimant qu'ils n'apportaient rien de nouveau à ce que tout le monde savait déjà, que le programme a connu des dépassements de coûts importants. "Il s'agit d'un autre cas de gaspillage éhonté des fonds publics", a déclaré le député allianciste Garry Breitkreuz. "Ce programme doit être aboli parce qu'il ne contribue en rien à améliorer la sécurité de la population", a déclaré le chef conservateur, Joe Clark. Une majorité de provinces, à l'exception du Québec, réclament aussi l'abolition du programme des armes à feu. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:40:57 -0600 (CST) From: "Tom Empey" Subject: Clifford Olson Billboards Could you imagine a few strategically placed billboards with a lovely picture of Clifford underscored with the words, "I'll vote Liberal" or "I'm in favour of gun registration--it kept me safe" NOW IS THE TIME--does anybody have a billboard fund they're not using? Tom Empey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:41:42 -0600 (CST) From: Rae Baker Subject: Gun Registartion. I read, and read daily the itemts , on the digest. None seem to apply to the problem. The problem is the government, who is not listening and will not. The only way to rid ourselves of these people is to vote them out of office. The other problem is that there is no party with the movement to present themselves of a viable group to govebment the country. The coming fact is that we will have a LIBERAL GOVERNMENT in power and they will go along and can prove that what they are doing and have done is lawfull and the will of the people Are you listening out there, or just interested in the whining and complaining that appears on this and other groups. ACTION is the only way that will rid us of this totalitarian government. His majesty Jean has seen the writting on the wall and is bowing out with pomp and cerimony, say how wonderful he is and was. We just sit and listen like dutifull children. If you are not aware, that our government is controlled by few, just note that the Cuacus and the PM control the contry, your representative has little if no power to present your views and effect the out come of things. We do not have a Democracy,....We have an elected democracy. and your elected rep, has not power. If in the center of government, your rep disagress witht he PM he will not sign his party papers , and he or she will not be part of the party We must do something about this, and not just whine away our lives. Too old and not well enough to do anything but complain Rae Baker Burlington,Ont. Key West Fl. (till April) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:42:18 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Ottawa Citizen Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Smoking guns Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:38:19 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Ottawa Citizen Dear Editor: You seem to have failed to grasp the basic premise behind Dr. Hudson's mission: he has no license or registration to carry with him, because he has burned them both. Dr. Hudson wishes to be arrested for this paper "crime" in order to become a test case for the constitutionality of this "law". That the police and the Crown Prosecutors consistently fail to do so, even though it is manifestly obvious that he is in contravention of the law, speaks volumes about their faith in it. Instead, they persist in their Keystone Kops routine of trying to confiscate someone's private property, and charging us with non-Firearms Act offences, like "obstruction", if they should resist this theft. The Courts then continue to nibble away at our rights by placing limitations on our freedom of mobility, our freedom to assemble, our freedom of association, and our freedom of expression. Not to mention draining our bank accounts defending ourselves from these shenanigans in court, while they bring the full force and resources of the State against us. Dr. Hudson is a hero and a freedom fighter, who is being persecuted by the State for his political beliefs. If you don't think that this fight is about rights, freedom, and liberty, all you have to do is look at what the Federal Liberal government is trying to get away with, playing fast and loose with this law. It is our sacred duty to disobey an unjust law. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:09:45 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Edmonton Journal Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: SLASHED BUDGET IN '95, WOULD BOOST IT AS PM Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 10:52:27 -0500 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Edmonton Journal In typical Liberal fashion, Paul Martin tries to place the blame for the billion dollar failed firearms fiasco everywhere but where it really belongs: squarely at his own feet. Martin was the Finance Minister and Vice President of the Treasury Board when this obscene amount of money was wasted on a program that will never work. Either he didn't know (ignorant), didn't care (arrogant), or was in on it from the start (complicit). In any case, these are not qualities that one should be looking for in a Prime Minister. A true leader accepts the blame for his own actions, he doesn't try to palm them off on others. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:10:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Re: STEREOTYPING >Recently on the Digest were postings from Al Harper and Rick Lowe >regarding stereotyping. It all started with a lawyer joke. Well I can >tell you that lab guys suffer much more that lawyers or posties from >stereotyping. > >Just look what they did to that poor Dr. Frankenstein.............. > >Bob Lickacz ========= Could you tell us some lab guy jokes? Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:32:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Hondatoy Automotive Ltd." Subject: Columbine testimony Some time ago I read here, testimony given by a parent of one of the victims at Columbine. In it he made reference to how Cain slew Able and how nobody was concerned about the club he used, but rather how and why there had been such evil in his heart. I would like to have this testimony again. Maybe somebody could post it here again. Thanks Dave Rusnell. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:33:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Chalk up One for the "Good Guys" !! Boris Gimbarzevsky wrote: > Before I get flamed by people regarding my views on "child pornography", I > suggest that people examine whether their negative emotional reactions to > pedophiles stem primarily from their loathing of that tiny minority who prey > on "children", especially if involuntary sex acts are involved, or if they are > perturbed by the notion that "children" can have sexual feelings. If it is > the former, then we have little disagreement in how one deals with convicted > pedophiles. If it is the latter, then you should try to honestly recall your > childhood sexual feelings to see what you've been repressing or misclassifying > all these years before you send an angry email my way. > > Boris Gimbarzevsky I agree with Boris on many counts, especially his recommendations for the punishment of those who actually prey on children. If I may wade in with my comments, here is what I think should be a good criteria for determining whether a crime has been committed or not. This revolves around the basic concepts of "consent" and "harm". Children, by and large, do not have the capacity to form "informed consent"; those that exhibit that capacity should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Any sort of "child pornography" that does not breach "consent" or "harm" issues, that is, that are not actual depictions of children who cannot or have not consented, or who are being harmed, should not fall into the category of "criminal". Drawings of non-specific persons, or writings of a purely fictional nature, that are not depictions of actual acts are some examples. Just like drawings or pictures of guns, or fictional writings about shooting people. Only when actual depictions of actual acts that involve non-consensual activities, or actual harm taking place, should they be considered "criminal". Such depictions are predicated on actual crimes, and should then be criminalized themselves. Exceptions should be made for genuine scholarly works examining these activities. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #719 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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