From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #722 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, February 5 2003 Volume 05 : Number 722 In this issue: Re: USE OF NFA MATERIAL: LE MINISTRE CAUCHON, LE RAPPORT HESSION ET CELUI DE KPMG RATENT LA Re: Hession Report Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #717 ....loss of moral compass.... RE: Yukonslavia Could Be the Rural 'Role Model' Re: FRT disk? Ontario's tough on crime deals for dumping the FA Seemed reasonable that one or more of our Digest's members may have been in Rwanda...... Re: deals for dumping the FA Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #712 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:40:29 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: USE OF NFA MATERIAL: On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Med Crotteau wrote: > Being poor, and not having much Money left, after taxes and food i > found i could only put 2 One Cent Stamps on each Envelope. At least > i can get in my 2 cents worth, and attempt to help with the Costs > that this Minister sez is Worth It? I'm only trying to be Helpful > !! Actually it costs nothing to mail a letter to a member of Parliament. You could have left your envelopes unstamped and they would have been delivered. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:49:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: LE MINISTRE CAUCHON, LE RAPPORT HESSION ET CELUI DE KPMG RATENT LA CIBLE Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzg/guns75fr.htm COMMUNIQUÉ Le 4 février 2003 À diffuser immédiatement LE MINISTRE CAUCHON, LE RAPPORT HESSION ET CELUI DE KPMG RATENT LA CIBLE « Le ministre de la Justice continue d'avancer sur le chemin miné tracé par ses prédécesseurs. » Ottawa - Le porte-parole de l'opposition officielle en matière d'armes à feu et de droits de propriété, Garry Breitkreuz, a souligné aujourd'hui la principale lacune du rapport Hession et de celui de KPMG déposés hier par le ministre de la Justice, Martin Cauchon. « Il est incroyable que ces personnes ne tirent pas de leçons de leurs erreurs, a fait observer M. Breitkreuz. En 1994, des fonctionnaires avaient prévenu le ministre de la Justice qu'ils n'étaient pas en mesure d'évaluer les coûts du programme d'enregistrement des armes à feu. Ils ont d'ailleurs fortement sous-estimé le nombre d'armes et de propriétaires d'armes, ce qui se traduit par l'actuel fiasco et le gaspillage d'un milliard de dollars. Les rapports soumis hier au Parlement ne font ni l'un ni l'autre mention de ces inexactitudes. Le ministre continue d'avancer sur le chemin miné tracé par ses prédécesseurs. » Des documents gouvernementaux révèlent de nombreuses erreurs dont il n'est pas fait état dans les deux rapports des consultants, et que le ministre refuse de reconnaître : - - 400 000 propriétaires d'armes à feu ne détiennent toujours pas un permis, sans lequel ils ne peuvent enregistrer leurs armes; - - 300 000 propriétaires d'armes de poing enregistrées ne détiennent pas de permis les autorisant à posséder ces armes ; - - Jusqu'à 10 millions d'armes n'ont pas encore été enregistrées; - - Cinq millions d'armes enregistrées n'ont pas encore été vérifiées par la GRC; - - Pour 78 % des armes à feu enregistrées, il manque des inscriptions au registre; - - 813 822 armes à feu ont été enregistrées sans inscription du numéro de série; - - Les adresses de 31 000 personnes visées par une interdiction des tribunaux de posséder une arme à feu ne figurent pas dans le registre. - - Les adresses de 9 000 personnes qui se sont vu refuser un permis ou dont le permis a été annulé ne figurent pas dans le registre; - - Le système n'est pas en mesure de repérer 38 000 propriétaires d'une arme à feu titulaires d'un permis; - - 15 381 permis de possession d'armes à feu ont été délivrés à des personnes ne possédant aucune preuve qu'elles ont réussi la formation sur l'usage et le maniement sécuritaires des armes à feu; - - 26 800 duplicatas de certificats d'enregistrement d'armes à feu ont été émis ; - - 832 duplicatas de permis de possession d'armes à feu et 259 permis portant la photo d'une autre personne ont été délivrés. « Qu'en coûtera-t-il pour délivrer un permis à tous les propriétaires d'armes, enregistrer toutes les armes et corriger l'ensemble des erreurs commises? a demandé M. Breitkreuz. Les rapports très élaborés commndés par le ministre à des consultants ne répondent pas à ces questions. Le ministre a indiqué qu'il faudra plusieurs semaines pour établir un plan d'action. Il a également informé le Parlement qu'il communiquerait à l'automne seulement le montant total consacré par les libéraux à la création du registre universel des armes à feu. » M. Breitkreuz a prédit que les électeurs n'apprendraient pas la vérité avant les prochaines élections. « À l'automne, les libéraux seront plongés à fond dans la course au leadership et aucun des candidats ne voudra défendre ce travail d'amateur qui a coûté un milliard de dollars. Un nouveau leader sera élu d'ici le printemps et les libéraux ne voudront surtout pas compromettre leurs plans électoraux. La majorité des Canadiens souhaitent la disparition du registre des armes à feu et savent bien comment mettre fin à cette hémorragie de fonds publics. Il est dommage que les libéraux ne tiennent pas compte de l'avis de la majorité lorsque l'une de leurs vaches sacrées est en cause. Ils sont manifestement déterminés à jeter encore de l'argent dans ce grand trou noir. Le seul moyen d'y mettre un terme est d'élire un gouvernement allianciste », a conclu M. Breitkreuz. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:50:58 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: Hession Report On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Bruce Mills wrote: > http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/general_public/news_releases/review_feb2003/review.asp Some of my observations on the Hession Report... > In the three fiscal years following 2004-2005,... program > participants should experience continuously higher levels of service > and associated social benefits. I wonder what "social benefits" might accure to the gun owner? Aside from masocism, I can't think of any off hand. > Eliminate ambiguity or uncertainty in the Firearms Act. That would entail trashing it and rewritting it completely. > (NWEST) should be transferred to the RCMP So they can have backup while raiding collector 'arsenals'. > I also met with a number of Canadians who have made direct use of > the CFP as firearms owners. Without exception, I found concerned and > cooperative people. Canadian firearm owners hand-picked by the CFC no doubt. Certainly not any from the dreaded "anti-firearms control lobby" mentioned later. > In the interest of cost effective services, it also contemplates > priority emphasis on a web-enabled (Internet) client interface as the > primary access for: > > - Licensing and registration transaction origination and approval, > and > - CFP program information. Too bad most firearms users tend not to have computers or web access. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:57:29 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #717 Boris, I have read your view with interest. It all boils down to balance of power and control. A child is on more equal footing with another child than with an adult. In this regard it is relatively easy for an adult to coerce behaviours from a child that are not in the child's best interests. As an instructor of martial arts and firearms safety and competitive shooting, I have seen many times young pubescent girls display openly flirtaceous behaviour directed toward me. It is a biological drive that females have to try to attract what they perceive as powerful males (No, I'm NOT saying I'm some demi-god. Its just that an inexperienced teeny-bopper doesn't know any better). My wife, daughters, and I discuss this phenomenon openly. These young girls will exercise these behaviours almost unconsciously. The small conscious part is allowed to express itself because in their hearts they trust the adult male (me, in this case) NOT to actually act on their advances. In this way they get to try out their 'strutting' in a risk-free way. It is up to the adult male to recognize this behaviour for what it is, and to redirect the girl's attention onto a healthier topic. If the adult male has issues of hois own - poor self image, fears of sexual inadequacy, etc. - he may fail to maintain the proper relationship and allow his own fantasies or desires to take precedence over the child's needs for a healthy puberty. Many of my students have now grown up and gone on to develope proper relationships with their age peers. Some of them have come back in their twenties and we have shared a good laugh over their former 'crush'. The bottom line is that it is the ADULT who is the adult and it is only he who is responsible for the outcome. Regarding the 'artistic merit', I say (and teach my kids) that you are not responsible for what you think, only for what you do. If someone wants to creat images or writings that are, shall we say, of questionable taste, then as long as they did not involve actual children in them, why should I care? The whole entertainment industry thrives on sexual violence. Every action movie has at least one scene implying, thretening or showng some pretty young woman getting stalked, attacked, and/or graphically killed. Especially thriller or horror movies. The Scream Queens are a distinct genre of acting. It sells like hot cakes. But actual necro-erotica is about the most disgusting thing we can imagine. So on the one hande we enjoy fantasizing about sexual violence while on the other hand we profess to abhor it. In my mind, were we to try to illegalize the drawings, writings and computer animations of those whose topic is imagined pedophilia, then we had better be prepared to illegalize a whole lot more as well. Like I said, as long as it only happens in the minds of the people who get off on it and not in real life, then I don't care what they dream about. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:14:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: ....loss of moral compass.... We live in a country that has become "multi-cultural" and "pluralistic" = to the point where prayers are disallowed in public schools; no = Christian prayers were allowed at the Peggys Cove memorial service for = the victims of the air crash; the Supreme Court has decreed that child = pornography with "artistic merit" is OK; homosexuality has become an = accepted norm; Svend Robinson has a bill (C-250) that would make quoting = passages of the Bible a "hate crime"; printer Scott Brockie was told by = the Ontario Human (read: homosexual) Rights Commission that he could = practice his religion at home, in his church but not at work; people who = decry hunting as immoral fully sanction aborting (read: stopping a = beating human heart) babies; firearms ownership is regarded as a = "questionable activity"; we have equality before the law, but some are = more equal than others; etc., etc., etc. Before you slap a label on me of any kind, prove me wrong. I guess I = don't understand the term "moral compass". Where there are no absolute = values of right and wrong, that nation can be said to have lost it's = moral compass. Where there is no "capital crime" (read: murder), there = cannot be "capital punishment". That is the lesson of history.=20 In a discussion with a United Church 'clergyperson', I was accused of = being homophobic. When I countered by pointing out that any society that = had historically embraced homosexuality as socially acceptable was = rotten to the core and close to collapse, she blanched. Even she = realized the historical fact. Besides, having a differing opinion is = simply that - a differing opinion. It is not a "phobia" of any kind. I don't particularly care about who does what to whom or how, but I see = the effects of this lack of standards (read: moral compass) on society = and it is disconcerting. I believe that one of the parents of a child shot at Columbine expressed = a similar concern about the loss of a national "moral compass" being at = the root cause of the problem - not guns. Todd Birch Merritt, BC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:15:28 -0600 (CST) From: "RFOCBC" Subject: RE: Yukonslavia Could Be the Rural 'Role Model' Enjoyed this one Jane. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] On Behalf Of janegaffin@canada.com Sent: February 4, 2003 3:40 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: Yukonslavia Could Be the Rural 'Role Model' YUKONSLAVIA COULD BE THE RURAL 'ROLE MODEL' by Jane Gaffin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:16:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul Chicoine" Subject: Re: FRT disk? Hello All Good question! How does one get a legal copy of this famous disk. I am sure many of us would like to know, I know I would. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:23:31 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Ontario's tough on crime Like I've said before, you need a script to keep tell the actors apart. (It's all about synergy). Feb. 4, 2003; Toronto Star Salvation Army to act as electronic jail guards To monitor inmates serving weekend sentences at home Ontario government gave contract to B.C. company to cut costs http://www.Thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1035777434558&call_pageid=968256289824 RICHARD BRENNAN, QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU The Salvation Army is keeping track of Ontario inmates under a controversial new contract signed by the Conservative government designed to allow hundreds more inmates to serve their sentences at home and not in jail. The Salvation Army, which is a subcontractor, will be responsible for setting up inmates — many of them doing weekend sentences for offences like drug dealing, assault and drunk driving — with electronic monitoring and checking up on them when they stray. The contract is part of the Tories' move to cut costs and alleviate overcrowding by having hundreds of inmates stay in their homes rather than showing up at correctional centres on the weekend. Critics say it is an abdication of the government's role to protect the public, but the government emphasizes that sex offenders, spousal abusers and pedophiles will not be among those allowed out of jail. Jamie Wallace, a spokesperson for Public Safety Minister Bob Runciman, said yesterday that weekenders or those serving intermittent sentences "create enormous problems for the corrections system." Jemtec Inc., a security firm based in Vancouver, is being paid $2.4 million a year for the next five years to electronically monitor inmates, and it in turn has subcontracted to the Salvation Army. The new contract began Jan. 15. Andrew Murie, executive director of MADD Canada, was taken aback to hear that drunk drivers are about to be treated even more lightly. "There is no deterrent. It all started when they were allowed to serve on weekends ...but this takes it one step further. I'm sure a victim's family would tell you that having a person sitting in jail instead of the safety of their home watching the Maple Leafs on a Saturday night is much more of a deterrent," Murie said. Liberal critic MPP Dave Levac (Brant) said the government has done an about-face on views of crime and punishment but hasn't told the public. "This doesn't live up to the Tories' `tough on crime' and `lock 'em up and throw away the key' image that they would have the public believe," Levac said. While critics praise the Salvation Army for being an advocate for inmates and people who abuse alcohol, they say it is hardly the kind of agency most people would want to ride herd on inmates. "The plan is to let them all out," said Barry Scanlon, a spokesperson for the Ontario Public Service Employees (OPSEU), referring to those serving intermittent sentences, 40 per cent of whom, he said, are repeat drunk drivers. "The whole thing is a farce. I can see a guy will go out, the alarm will go off and they will phone and the guy will offer some excuse ... and the Sally Ann guy will say, `no problem, just make sure you don't do it again.' Remember, the Salvation is the first line of defence." Hugh Osler, executive director of the Salvation Army's correctional program in the Toronto area, defended its role, saying it has experience operating open custody residences for young offenders and dealing with federal offenders "so this is just an extension of things the Salvation Army has been doing for a long time." Osler said the Salvation Army has been involved in electronic monitoring in Florida for 10 years. Jemtec president Eric Caton said the Salvation Army seemed to be a natural fit since "the individuals on the program in many cases are already their clients, so in looking at it we felt there was some synergy there." Caton would not say how much the Salvation Army is being paid. The goal of the contract, according to confidential documents obtained by the Star, is to have 700 inmates wearing electronic bracelets during the first year. "The whole ankle bracelet, electronic monitoring policy is an abdication on the part of this government of its responsibility to run a properly staffed, professional correctional services system," NDP MPP Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre) said. And I thought we were going to smack 'em around a bit. On the upside, at least paper criminals like firearm owners can look forward to 'easy' time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:49:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: deals for dumping the FA >For those who proclaimed the current version of the Firearms Act dead due >to the >financial and administrative problems, it should be fairly obvious now that >the >Titanic is NOT sinking - they're just going to get the passengers to pay >for >more pumps. I think the Firearms Act still has a chance of being killed >off - >but not while 90% of the firearms owners remain sitting on their asses, >doing >nothing but bitch to each other. ========== I agree with Rick. The Liberals have no intention of killing the FA. They still vocally support the FA. While I don't have much faith in the integrity of verbal comments by politicians, I do have faith in one feature of human nature, the desire to not lose face. The Liberals do not wish to lose face by dumping the FA. I attended a gun show near Toronto recently where we were addressed by Tony Bernardo, who said a couple of things I didn't like. 1. He stated that the FA is all but dead, and that people could be buying and selling guns, supposedly covered by the letter of intent to register, but not actually registered. Those guns would likely never have to be registered, according to Tony. Maybe he knows something I don't, but I don't see the Liberals killing the FA. I'll believe it when I see it. Meanwhile, let's not give any gun owners false security. People with a false sense of security are likely to sit on their collective asses and do nothing, and that will lead to us getting screwed again by collective apathy. 2. He stated that some MPs were talking about dumping the registry in return for a deal on banning semi-autos. That set the alarm bells ringing in my head. Look at Australia and see what that got them. It got them screwed. I spoke up and stated that I don't want to see any deals of any kind. Deals with the gun banners are just piecemeal surrender. Several other gun owners echoed my sentiment on any deal. I didn't like the way Tony said it, without making any "NO DEALS" statement of his own, like maybe he was testing the waters. Like I said, maybe Tony knows something I don't, and maybe I misconstrued what he said, but the above are my impressions of what he had to say. The FA is certainly not dead and we had better not back off. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:50:22 -0600 (CST) From: Ed Tait Subject: Seemed reasonable that one or more of our Digest's members may have been in Rwanda...... February 4, 2003 ALERT: URGENTLY NEEDED: PHOTOS OR FOOTAGE OF RWANDA JPFO has members and supporters around the globe. Perhaps one of you can help us find some crucial images for the video documentary "Innocents Betrayed" (which shows the connection between genocide and "gun control" around the world). We're looking specifically for photos or video footage of the country of Rwanda. We need these images -- suddenly and urgently -- because an existing source has withdrawn their photos. Here's the story: "Innocents Betrayed" features a segment on the Rwandan genocide of the 1990s. We had obtained photos from a number of commercial, government, and humanitarian sources in the U.S. and in Africa. Then -- just as we were about to go into production on that segment -- one of our sources refused to license our use of their photographs, saying: "Your website ... clearly states your main objective as the 'preservation of firearm ownership.' For this reason, I cannot provide the images you've requested nor can I sanction the use of any ... images in your possession." Although this abrupt refusal left us with a gaping hole covering about 20 percent of the Rwanda segment, we will not let this refusal stop us from telling the complete story of this or any other genocide. What we particularly need are photos of the the country and the Rwandan people, including images of refugees from the genocide, life in Rwandan towns and villages, etc. (We have photos of the actual genocide, though we can always use others.) We have obtained photos from commercial sources in the U.S. and in Africa, so what we're looking for now are images that private parties or little-known groups might have in their files. Do you know someone who was a missionary in Rwanda? Or were you there on business and did you take photos during your trip? Perhaps you've got a friend in Rwanda who takes pictures? If so, please contact us at webmaster@jpfo.org We will pay a negotiated fee for the use of the photos. The Liberty Crew http://www.jpfo.org/ib.htm for more information on our documentary film "Innocents Betrayed" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:54:47 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: deals for dumping the FA Trigger Mortis wrote: > I attended a gun show near Toronto recently where we were addressed by Tony > Bernardo, who said a couple of things I didn't like. Which gun show, and would anyone have a transcript of what he said? > 2. He stated that some MPs were talking about dumping the registry in > return for a deal on banning semi-autos. That set the alarm bells ringing > in my head. Look at Australia and see what that got them. It got them > screwed. I spoke up and stated that I don't want to see any deals of any > kind. Deals with the gun banners are just piecemeal surrender. Several > other gun owners echoed my sentiment on any deal. I didn't like the way > Tony said it, without making any "NO DEALS" statement of his own, like maybe > he was testing the waters. > > Like I said, maybe Tony knows something I don't, and maybe I misconstrued > what he said, but the above are my impressions of what he had to say. > > The FA is certainly not dead and we had better not back off. I agree. No more appeasement. Those being "appeased" never stay that way. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:55:47 -0600 (CST) From: Al Muir Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #712 > Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 07:19:50 -0600 (CST) > From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" > Subject: Muir to discuss gun law with Cauchon > > PUBLICATION: The Sunday Herald > DATE: 2003.02.02 > SECTION: NovaScotia > PAGE: A6 > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Muir to discuss gun law with Cauchon > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > YARMOUTH - Provincial Justice Minister Jamie Muir will head to Ottawa soon > for talks with his federal counterpart, Martin Cauchon, on firearms > legislation. I think the opt out effort is helping. I received a response from the premiers office to a letter sent about 6 weeks ago with the above information in in. It contains no commitment to opt out but the pressure is obviously having an effect. Before our most recent trip to Ottawa I faxed the three major parties on their position on opting out informing them that we would attempt to make it an election issue. Please phone them again, Al ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #722 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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