From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #729 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, February 6 2003 Volume 05 : Number 729 In this issue: Re: Rawanda Re: Clifford Olson Billboards Define "Public Safety" HEADS UP W32 Sobig A Re: Clifford Olson Billboards Clifford Olson story Sad Commentary on Canada RE: [chat] Edmonton lawyer Ottawa Office- firearms act replacement Creators Syndicate Inc?????? Re: Rwanda Genocide Re: "Couchon should listen to who's protesting" Re: Ontario court ruling may affect pot growing surveillance Re: Liberals just part of the "Borg". Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #725 Re: Supreme Court Judges Decisions Re: "Street Life" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:11:45 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Rawanda B Farion wrote: > > > What we particularly need are photos of the the country and > > the Rwandan people, including images of refugees from the > > genocide, life in Rwandan towns and villages, etc. (We have > > photos of the actual genocide, though we can always use > > others.) > > > > Well, you should also try and find out who supplied the ammunition to the > militia's that orchestrated the genocide. > > My source, the Economist said it came from the French (Africa Desk) thru Uganda. > Guns are pretty damn useless without ammo! It was my understanding that the majority of the deaths were from machetes and other farm type implements. Now, if the Rwandan villagers had had access to firearms themselves, there might have been a different kind of slaughter... Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:12:10 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Clifford Olson Billboards hh@hayz.ws wrote: > > The real problem with this methodology is that it is identical to the smear > campaign that people used against the Reform party in the past. In that campaign > the tendancy of neo-Nazi's to vote Reform was used to "prove" that the Reform > party was a party of racists. In reality, the Reform party did not specifically > support the neo-Nazi's, the neo-Nazi's just happened to support some of the > policies that Reform was proposing. > > This is a common logical fallacy - "guilt by association". Olson may like them, > but that does not entail that they like Olson. > > Better to show how specific party policies may have directly benefitted Olson or > other murderers and criminals rather than try to portray the Liberal Party as > approving of what they did. Seems like a good dose of their own medicine to me... Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:32:39 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Define "Public Safety" We have been floundering around trying to get a handle on the Lieberal's continued insistance that the Firearms Act "enhances public safety". Does anyone know where "public safety" is defined? Who would define such a thing? Parliament? The Courts? The Prime Minister? If it is such a sacred thing, it certainly must have some sort of definition somewhere, and hence, some sort of limitation. Can any of our legal beagles and scholarly types help us out on this? Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:34:59 -0600 (CST) From: Med Crotteau Subject: HEADS UP W32 Sobig A W32 Sobig A VIRUS: HEADS UP: I had my Norton Complain about a Virus, and when i Quarantined it, a Second one rode in on the Coat Tails, and i had to Delete it Seperately? Two Seperate Identifications, on one Entry. "Both were Sobig though." "I believe a self righteous Lieberal with a cause, is more Dangerous than a Hells Angel with an Attitude." author unknown KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!!! MED ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:35:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul Chicoine" Subject: Re: Clifford Olson Billboards If memory serves me, the statement from Olsen was made to Peter Worthington(sp) of the Toronto Sun and was published in the sun. I think this would place the comment within the public domain or at least the only hurtle would be to obtain permission from the Sun. Just a thought. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice _________________________________________________ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Powlesland To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: Re: Clifford Olson Billboards > > On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Mark Horstead wrote: > > > > The Liberal Party (a party full of lawyers) would sue your *ss. > > > > If the quote is accurate, I don't see how. > > That would be the only defense - Olson actually said it publically. > > >From what I can gather that is not the case. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:52:30 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Clifford Olson story Here is the story where Olson said he would vote Liberal 2002/12/8 Serial killer intends to exercise his right to help pick Canada's government By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun The Supreme Court of Canada's ruling that inmates of prisons have the right to vote may not have much impact on how Canada is governed, but it further undermines the respect Canadians have for the judiciary. One beneficiary of the Supreme Court's decision (not Parliament's) is Clifford Olson, now serving 11 concurrent life sentences for murdering 11 young people in 1980-81. I was on the phone with him the other day, and he recalled he'd once filed an appeal to vote, but Parliament rejected the request. "No matter what we're in prison for, we're all citizens and should have the right to vote," Olson told me. He added that most prisoners don't give a damn, but he'll vote Liberal: "Once a Liberal, always a Liberal; I'll never abandon the boat." He prefers Paul Martin to Jean Chretien. On New Year's Day, Olson will be 63. Since he was 17, He has spent all but four years in prison - mostly in protective custody. This would be psychologically devastating to the majority of convicts. Not to Olson. He seems to thrive in prison, works out in the gym, keeps fit by running (he claims a mile in five minutes) and follows news on TV, writes letters and creates controversy. He's a jailhouse Forrest Gump, claiming links with some of the big crimes of our times. Right now he's in Quebec's Ste. Anne-des-Plaines penitentiary, manipulating his shrunken world like some Dr. Evil. When Seattle's Green River Killer was murdering an estimated 50 prostitutes in the early 1980s, Olson caused a stir by claiming he not only knew the guy's identity, but that the pair had raped and killed together. Olson was granted immunity by the state of Washington if his information was correct; he kept dangling tidbits and never delivered. The late, flamboyant lawyer, Melvin Belli, took up his cause. Olson negotiated a trip to B.C. soon after his conviction, ostensibly to lead police to more bodies. Again, he never delivered. In the mid-1990s, he wrangled a trip from the RCMP to Churchill, Man., claiming he'd killed a couple of missing girls up there. When no bodies were found, he reckoned polar bears had found their graves and eaten them. After the Sept. 11 attack on the World Trade Center, Olson contacted the FBI and said he'd exchanged letters a couple of years earlier with Afghani students in Florida who said "something big" was due to happen and, he said, mentioned the name of Mohammed Atta. Olson has sworn affidavits to this effect. Information ignored I phoned the FBI agent, who confirmed Olson's call. The agent said he believed Olson's claim of being a serial killer was untrue, and ignored his information. He was surprised to learn Olson was indeed a serial killer and said he'd re-check the information. Not a ringing endorsement of FBI efficiency. Olson says he's killed upwards of 90 young people in the U.S. and Canada - and even Hawaii (maybe true) and Ireland (untrue). This is rubbish, though he has almost certainly committed more than the 11 murders of which he was convicted. Seven of his young victims were listed as runaways by police until he confessed and led them to the bodies. Two weeks ago, I got another excited message from Olson. He claimed to have received letters a couple of years ago from one John Allen Williams, "who said he changed his name to John Allen Mohammad." Asked about victims In what purports to be affidavits sworn on Aug. 16, 2000, Olson says: "In letters he said he was interested in serial killers and wanted to know if I had killed any of my victims with a rifle ... he said he was looking after a guy named Lee Malvo, age 15." Olson sent his affidavit to Douglas Gansler, Montgomery County state attorney in Maryland (after initially erring and sending it to Montgomery, Alabama). He also sent copies to other officials, including Dean Yamashiro of the public defender's office in Honolulu and Stephen Harris of the public defender's office in Baltimore, requesting an appointment regarding the sniper murders and also the unsolved murders of three girls in Baltimore in 1981. He claimed to have photos of the murdered girls. Olson says he has 11 letters from the Washington sniper, but isn't releasing them yet. It's more Forrest Gump stuff, and more evidence that far from rotting in solitary confinement, Olson leads a demented, stimulating life, ever seeking public attention. Olson is more cunning than crazy - a sociopath. According to those who study psychopathy, that makes him endlessly resourceful, imaginative, innovative and a perpetual pain in the butt. And someone the Supreme Court thinks deserves the right to help choose our government ... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:09:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Rick Young & Carol MacLennan-Young" Subject: Sad Commentary on Canada In one of my other hobbies, military modelling, I have a Polish buddy who is one of the few in our group who also enjoys firearms. Needless to say, we have many enjoyable discussions over guns, freedom and the current Lieberal foolishness. However, it was his comment to me a few weeks back that has really stayed with me. Before his family emigrated to Canada many years ago, he had lived in both Poland and Libya. The comment was, near as I can remember " So far, I've lived under two totalitarian regimes in my life...I didn't expect Canada to become my third." Damn near makes me want to cry. Thank you, Jean Chretien, for systematically destroying pride in our country as a free society. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:35:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Ed Sieb" Subject: RE: [chat] Edmonton lawyer Gerry Kirkham asked: > > Ed Sieb posted an article about a lawyer in Edmonton > by the name of Liam Connolly, [...} Ed, you posted it, > do you have any further comments that would be helpful? > Gerry Kirkham, Powell River, B.C. All I know is that he's a frequent poster on the Free Dominion website, and his posts are usually quite thoughtful and intelligent. In a private response to Rick Lowe's message, Mr. Connelly added the following information: > > Oh $100 was the sum considered given the possible numbers of people > interested. The more people the lower the cost. > There is an on-going discussion at Free Dominion: http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9110 I originally posted the article as I thought it would be of interest to the subscribers here on the CFD. That's about as much as I know of this project. I'd recommend communicating with Mr. Connelly direct for further info, or log on to Free Dominion, and join the discussions there. I think this is probably a worthy effort, and I understand fully any hesitations about contributing to yet one more "project". I have a strong feeling that this one is quite legit. Free Dominion is a conservative political forum, with a sub-forum ("The Gun Room") dedicated to firearms issues. I wish I could tell you more. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:49:59 -0600 (CST) From: Al Muir Subject: Ottawa Office- firearms act replacement Al, could you tell me if the Ottawa office supports the PFCS in any way shape or form. Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:57:12 -0600 (CST) From: russelles Subject: Creators Syndicate Inc?????? > >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:48:02 -0600 (CST) >From: Jim Powlesland >Subject: Re: Dr. John Lott Controversy Jim: Point your microsoft browser search engine to: Creators Syndicate Inc. The website does not come up on blue for you to go there immediately. It is a cartoon site Even though I am a Bugs Bunny fan, I even laughed at some of the cartoons. Mr. Tait: Please get some substantive documentation for you story please. Russell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:44:44 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Rwanda Genocide In a message dated 2/5/2003 6:56:45 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > We're looking specifically for photos or video footage of the > country of Rwanda. Has anyone asked the CBC ? , after all they did a special with Retired General Maurice Dellaire which showed some pretty graphic footage of the Rwanda genocide. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:00:20 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: "Couchon should listen to who's protesting" In a message dated 2/5/2003 7:42:16 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > Gun registry opponent Bruce Hutton failed in his mission Monday to be > charged by police. > > Hutton, who refuses to obey a new federal law requiring people to register > their firearms, unsuccessfully tried to give himself up to Mounties in Red > Deer. > > "The law does nothing to make Canadians safer," Hutton, a retired RCMP > officer, told supporters. > > Hutton marched into the station with a caulking gun which had been > fashioned > into a firearm. I'm suprised they didn't draw their guns down on him - (after all the gun was caulked right ? ... Maybe if he should modelled it after a more sinister gun like an ingram or an Uzi ...that would have made them a little more upset. (32 or 40 round mag and all) ...But then again..when you have retired mounties protesting against this Registry..I think that "speaks volumes"...No one knows "more" about "public safety" than a Retired Cop !! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:04:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Mark Horstead" Subject: Re: Ontario court ruling may affect pot growing surveillance - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Ontario court ruling may affect pot growing surveillance > This is the same violation of privacy as using CCTV cameras in public areas. I disagree. Those cameras record everything in their fields of view around the clock and individuals can be seen and recognized and personal patterns can be established. Aerial thermal imagery cannot do that. It can only be used to observe activity, which cannot be tied to a specific individual ie you can see only that somebody is doing something but you cannot identify the person. The crew has to direct a policeman to the location to confirm what is happening and react. The tape may be admissible as evidence, but that is subject to challenge. Observation is fleeting, rather than constant in the case of CCTV cameras, unless any activity appears suspicious, and in most cases (in my direct experience), that activity is initially detected visually, ie unaided, and only if the crew believes that further study is warranted will the person or vehicle will be watched. There are simply too many people or vehicles moving around to pay attention to anything unless it stands out blatantly. > It isn't the privacy of the criminals that is of concern, it is the privacy of > everyone *else* they are snooping on from above. If the activity is happening in a public place, there is no presumption of privacy anyway, ie anybody could wander by and see what a person is doing. In this case, as I've said, it's impossible to identify anybody being observed and that differentiates it even more in my opinion. And if, for example, somebody who is being watched walks under a tree and somebody else walks out it's bloody hard to tell whether or not it's the same person. For evidence purposes it was necessary to have an unbroken observation for that very reason. > Why not allow them to use X-Rays to ferret out crime? High gain microphones? > Bouncing lasers off of windows to capture conversations inside? Those are intrusive. TI can only see what happens in the open. > It gives the police a greater technological advantage than what they would > normally have with their unaided senses. When they develop the ability to see > in the infra red spectrum, then by all means, go for it. Radar. Breathalyzers. The difference is? > What happens when the develop better technology that *does* show identifiable > individuals, movement or things? Then that will have to be dealt with at the time, but it will still be impracticable to use this as general surveillance given that one is looking at large and busy areas. Go up to the top of the CN Tower and look around the city. That's what we would see, as we were patrolling at about that altitude. That's an awful lot of activity to watch, and we were not remaining still like that either. Do you find it objectionable if the crew is flying around in daylight and observing with naked eyes? Judging by a previous statement, I'd say no. Now, presuming that the crew spots a person or vehicle acting suspiciously - do you see anything wrong with them studying that activity in more detail with binoculars? How about gyro-stabilized binoculars, which dampen out the vibrations of the aircraft? What if the stabilized binos are now mounted externally to the aircraft and the image fed to the crew on an internal monitor, which is really what the daytime camera included in the system is? What about adding a night capability to that? Where do you draw the line at what is and what is not acceptable, technologically, and why? > I'd put it more like a cruiser driving through a neighbourhood with a high gain > microphone pointed at your house. And catching perhaps two or three words before moving on? That's the audio equivalent of aerial patrol, whether observation is aided or not. Hearing "nice weather" would elicit no further observation, whereas "I'll kill you" would. What are the odds of catching just the right snippet? Pretty remote, as was the chance of catching somebody "in the act". But anyway, I believe that the law has established that there is a presumption of privacy regarding personal conversation as they are short-range. > How do you feel about the "street sweeper" they've developed to digitally > process every license plate on the street as they drive by? I see that as pretty hard to abuse for the same sort of reason as aerial patrol is - there are simply too many licence plates to collate and look for patterns of travel. And, if I understand correctly, target licence plates, ie plates of stolen cars, have to be programmed in. I presume that plates of known criminals could also be programmed in and the results used to build up a picture of travel habits but that would be a pretty hit-or-miss proposition. I doubt that it would or could be an efficient or effective surveillance aid and is therefore unlikely to be used as such. > "Privacy" is a right that belongs to all of us. "Surveilance" is a special > case, which should only be allowed when there is specific evidence of a specific > crime at a specific place - not CCTV cameras or infrared fly overs. Aerial thermal imagery, as we employed it, is not surveillance, which is specifically targetted. It is extremely hard to conduct surveillance from a helicopter given the limits of the technology, the short duration of a fuel load and the expense. I am as much concerned about police powers and their potential for abuse as you are, but having spent a total of a year flying around and doing this I don't see it as a threat to civil liberties. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:06:21 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Liberals just part of the "Borg". In a message dated 2/5/2003 8:57:18 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > But Chretien erased any doubt about the future of both the licensing and > registration portions of the program. > > "We are committed to the program. There is no notion at all that we will > stop the program of gun control Has anyone watched Star trek Next Generation...when Picard became a prisoner of "The Borg" ? ...This is pretty much the Liberal Mindset...they are nothing more than a "controlled government mind" of the "UN /U.S. Democrat/Socialist BORG" . (This would make a great Sci-Fi movie if were not "true". ) > > ..But That's okay Jean...you see that's also exactly how "Al Gore and the > Democrats" lost the election in the U.S.....they pissed off enough Gun > Owners who went to the Polls and voted to ensure that these types of > Socialists "never become elected". > > Both Clinton and Gore blamed the "Gun Lobby Movement" as the reason for > their "defeat". ...So I hope the Liberals continue with this same "failed" > plan of action. > > The democarts laid out the blueprints for them to follow, and the Liberals > have not disappointed me yet...they are fllowing the same route as the > democrats...and the results I figure should be pretty much the same as > well. > > You alienate and piss off a vast majority of Canadian voters...and > well...you lose !! > (Pretty simple logic) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:07:06 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #725 In a message dated 2/5/2003 8:57:18 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > HAMILTON - A city police constable who, among other things, pointed guns at > fellow officers and showed off his scrotum piercing to a female constable, > has been ordered to resign. .........WHAT A MORON !!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:08:05 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Supreme Court Judges Decisions In a message dated 2/5/2003 8:57:18 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > This only illustrates the anti-gun bias held by many liberals. They allow > their > irrational fears to control their actions, and ignore actual facts right in > front of them. Such biases have no place in our society, and they > certainly > don't belong on the bench, where impartiality is supposed to reign supreme. Unfortunately Bruce, all these liberal judges are "appointed" and we all know "why" "their appointed"...and that is to "enforce a political agenda". There is no longer a valid sense of judgement coming from the Canadian Benches of the SCC. They have been reduced to nothing more than a politically appointed "yes man". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:09:56 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: "Street Life" In a message dated 2/5/2003 12:58:21 PM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > I wasn't aware that many, many kids are kidnapped each year in North America > for > the purposes of making child pornography and prostitution. And the vast > majority of child pornography always has been white kids. In fact, I > thought > this kind of crime in Canada was relatively rare. > > Could you refer me to where I could learn more about this apparently common > crime? Sure...FBI ( http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/kidnap.htm ) WPG Police gang unit, (in fact ask any gang unit of any major city..it is actually very common these days and in the U.S. is a huge problem) ..but you won't learn this "street fact" in University criminology courses ..they don't teach things about "Street gang activities/Violent abductions and gang rapes,etc." - I've dealt personally with enough street gang members and know how they operate.. ( It's a long story) But take my word for it.... I know how they operate. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #729 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., P.O. Box 1342, Saskatoon SK S7K 3N9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered in any way.