From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #739 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, February 7 2003 Volume 05 : Number 739 In this issue: NEWS: Posting election results early lands man in court ARTICLE: Ottawa to revamp its hiring practices Response to Gary & Mary ARTICLE: Hamilton officer appeals conviction Re: Good idea Arming Customs Inspectors Camrose Alberta Police Chief "More fantastic?" ALLIANCE LEADER IN CORNWALL - Monday, February 10 Re: Minister touts ID card as vital to entering U.S. Re: NATIONAL ID CARDS Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #737 HEY, HEY, HEY BRUCE national ID card Re: ARTICLE: Is ID debate in the cards? Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration ID Cards The Idiot's name Re: ID Cards Re: HEY, HEY, HEY BRUCE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:00:22 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: NEWS: Posting election results early lands man in court http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/01/28/bryan030128 Posting election results early lands man in court Last Updated Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:52:27 VANCOUVER - Paul Bryan is going to court Tuesday to defend himself for posting results of the 2000 federal election on the Internet before he was supposed to. Elections Canada has charged him with "premature transmission" of results because he posted results available in Eastern Canada and through international media before the polls closed in the West. "When the results from the polls in eastern provinces started pouring in, this site provided those results to the public," Bryan says on his Web site. Bryan will argue that the prohibition infringes his freedom. "All citizens of Canada have a right to access the same public information, at the same time." Rules can't stop flow He also says that as a practical matter, government rules cannot block the flow of information. "Prohibiting the transmission of public, factual information on the Internet can be compared to throwing a stone into a river – the water doesn't stop moving, it simply flows around the rock." While Elections Canada is prosecuting Bryan, the international news organizations that also reported the election results are beyond its jurisdiction. Elections Canada argues the provision protects voters by withholding information that might influence their vote. Written by CBC News Online staff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:38:04 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Ottawa to revamp its hiring practices http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1035777548419&call_pageid=968332188774 Feb. 7, 2003. 01:00 AM Ottawa to revamp its hiring practices OTTAWA—The Liberal government brought in legislation yesterday to revamp labour relations, hiring and promotion practices for more than 160,000 public servants — including a new definition of the merit principle, long considered a cornerstone of the civil service. Individual merit will remain a fundamental value under the new regime, said Treasury Board president Lucienne Robillard. But she maintained reforms are needed to cut red tape and eliminate the "obstacle course that wastes time and money and discourages many good candidates from seeking government employment." The merit principle, designed to guard against favouritism and political interference, has been defined by the courts to mean the best-qualified person gets the job. In practice, that means every applicant must be evaluated and ranked, a procedure that can take months even when there is a pressing need to fill the post. The new system would give managers more leeway to take account of special skills required for a given job and operational needs unique to their departments. CANADIAN PRESS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:39:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Response to Gary & Mary Why should we support our neighbours to the south? Let me count the ways..... - - There are more of them than us - lots more. - - If we don't stand together, we hang separately. The fact that they may = have seemed to forgotten this in your opinion notwithstanding. If they = go down, we're next. - - They have their 2nd amendment rights. We have nothing enshrined in so = recent a document as that. We need them to win on all counts. - - Anything that happens in the US re: gun laws has a knee jerk reaction = here within 2 years. - - We are impacted by any changes to US gun laws if you travel to shoot, = hunt or re-enact in the US. Check atf.gov. for the scoop. I heard Charlton Heston speak when he was key note speaker in Prince = George at the BCWF AGM. He is respectful of our right to fight our own = fight as legally, and morally we ought to. We are either masters in our = own house or not. You wouldn't appreciate the NRA telling you what to do = and it is not within their purview to do so for non-Americans. A friend who competes regularly in the US tells me that he believes the = Americans have made a mistake with their CCW (concealed carry) laws. = Why? By accepting this as a concession instead of an inalienable right, = it can be revoked by fiat the same way it was granted. It reduces them = to our status when we are told by Wendy, et al, that gun ownership in = Canada is granted by the whim of the dictator of the day. I love my gun totin', flag wavin', unabashedly patriotic, oath of = allegiance to the flag, imperialistic American pals. May they never = change in their love of freedom and always be willing to pay the price = for them in blood. You and I live in relative peace under the aegis of the 'Pax Americana', = like it or not. If they weren't there, the 'barbarians' that would come = to replace the might and power of 'Rome' would be worse. Much worse. Hope that didn't hurt too much Canadian pride out there. Todd Birch Merritt, BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:40:04 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Hamilton officer appeals conviction http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1044572511453&call_pageid=968256289824 Feb. 6, 2003. 10:20 PM Hamilton officer appeals conviction HAMILTON - A "disgraceful" Hamilton cop convicted of discreditable conduct could continue to draw a salary from the force for months to come. Constable Craig Galassi has already raked in $100,000 in pay over the past two years even though he was suspended from duty and hasn't worked a day. That drain on the Hamilton police payroll may go on until his appeal is heard and possibly even longer if the case makes its way into the court system. Chief Ken Robertson says this is the most prolonged and difficult Police Services Act matter that Hamilton police have ever had and that he will do everything in his power to ensure that Galassi never wears a badge again. "He's disgraced the service and himself," says Robertson. "He is a black eye on our service." On Tuesday, it was publicly announced the 41-year-old constable had been convicted of three charges of discreditable conduct under the Police Services Act: The first for showing his pierced scrotum to a female officer; another for putting a dead frozen cat on the hood of another constable's pickup truck, and a third for being found guilty in court of careless handling of a firearm under the Criminal Code. Nine times in two years Galassi used his gun carelessly, the court determined, including three times when he pointed his weapon at other officers. On Monday, the hearing officer ordered Galassi to resign or be fired within seven days. On Wednesday, however, Galassi filed an appeal. The appeal stays the hearing order, meaning that it is now illegal for Galassi to be fired until - and unless - he loses his appeal. The appeal process itself can take six months to a year. And even if Galassi loses the appeal, he could still take his case to divisional court. Numerous lawyers who are familiar with labour law and police hearings were contacted and none was able to say just how far Galassi could go with his case and still continue to be paid his constable's salary of $50,000 a year. Although Galassi had 30 days to file his appeal, he chose to file almost immediately after receiving notice of his conviction, thereby eliminating any chance of being taken off the payroll, even for a few days. "This is absurd," says the chief. "All this is going to do is drag it out further. It's costly. My position is I'll take action to terminate him and cut off his pay." Money paid to Galassi for doing nothing could be spent on hiring new police recruits and putting them on the street, says Robertson. He is seeking legal advice to determine his next move. The most likely option for the chief is to ask the Ontario Civilian Commission of Police Services (OCCPS) for an interim order allowing him to carry out the dismissal. Galassi could not be reached for comment. His lawyer, Harry Black, filed the appeal on his behalf. Black often acts on behalf of the Toronto Police Association and has been retained by Galassi with money from his own pocket. Galassi chose not to use the free services of the Hamilton-Wentworth Police Association which often represents officers facing disciplinary hearings. Papers filed with OCCPS list 32 grounds for appeal, including: - - The hearing officer had no legal authority to deal with the dead cat incident because Galassi had already been disciplined in that matter. - - The hearing officer erred in his finding of misconduct in relation to the body piercing incidents because it "was of an utterly trifling and private nature" and the female officer testified that "she had repeatedly had to ask (Galassi) to show her the item before he did so and that she was neither offended nor upset by the incident." - - The hearing officer erred in refusing to declare a mistrial after part of the hearing transcript was lost when a stenographer recorded over it. Torstar News Service ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:59:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Re: Good idea >From: "jim davies" >Subject: Good idea > >> So fire away. However, link the support of scum like Olson for the >> Liberals to their criminal friendly policies, rather than just saying >> Olson supports the Liberals, so the Liberals must be bad. >> >> Jason Hayes > >Now that is a good idea. > >"LIEberals are TOUGH on crime? What do the Killers say? " >[picture of Clifford Olson with quote] > Now just why do you suppose that the Government introduced legislation to prevent 3rd party advertising during elections? Is it perhaps just to prevent this type of billboard from appearing? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:59:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Marc Thibault" Subject: Arming Customs Inspectors Lets put it in perspective please. No Customs Inspector has ever been killed or injured by a traveller trying to force his way into the country. The average Torontonian is at much greater risk of violence than any CI. If CI's should be allowed to carry guns, then so should the black nurse going home from a late shift at the Toronto General. \_____<><><>==== / _/-' No Victims Here 69BC A7EE AC28 CFD6 6A3D BF7E 9548 EA04 5C65 9F71 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:30:57 -0600 (CST) From: "Maggie" Subject: Camrose Alberta Police Chief THE CAMROSE CANADIAN Gun registry a waste of taxpayers' money Elaine Pennington, Editor February 2, 2003 The new federal firearms act has little support in Western Canada. Camrose police chief Marshall Chalmers is still struggling to understand the logic and costs behind the new federal firearms act. "That's something we're struggling with as chiefs across the province. I don't see (the need), given its massive costs." Chalmers said that prior to its implementation "the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police were assured that the program's cost wouldn't top $800 million and it is now nearly a billion and the deadlines keep changing. It's nearly impossible to enforce." In Chalmers' estimation the money "would have been better spent working to bring criminals to justice and by funding joint force operations that police forces deal with daily and by providing the resources we need to deal with organized crime and criminals." Gun registration is not new. In fact, "we've been registering handguns since 1933...Clearly, it's not working." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:32:02 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Snow Subject: "More fantastic?" An article on the CFD said: snip > And then he got in touch with Det.-Const. Bethune. > > "There are a couple of problems with his story," said Bethune. > "First, we were talking about something a little more fantastic > than a sawed-off shotgun. I told him something restricted -- like a > pistol, for example, would be great. > > "But there were no guarantees." > snip This is great stuff. I wonder if he means more valuable or difficult to obtain or what other meaning he has for more fantastic. You would think that prohibited would trump restricted and he was asking for only a restricted. It just goes to show how common prohibiteds are or can be. This is right up there with the guy who was prohibited from owning firearms that he had stored unsafely and was given 60 days to sell them. Carlos had his guns destroyed because the judge said that although she was not prohibiting him from owning them, that they had been involved in a crime, to wit: unsafe storage. It only hurts when I laugh, Barry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:32:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: ALLIANCE LEADER IN CORNWALL - Monday, February 10 Bureau du Chef de l'opposition Office of the Leader of the Opposition FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE February 7, 2003 MEDIA ADVISORY ALLIANCE LEADER IN CORNWALL Stephen Harper Attends Town Hall Meeting OTTAWA - Canadian Alliance Leader Stephen Harper will speak at a town hall meeting in Cornwall on Monday, February 10. The meeting will be at the Ramada Inn, 805 Brookdale Avenue. Doors open at 7:00 pm; Mr. Harper will speak at approximately 7:45 pm. - - 30 - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:33:31 -0600 (CST) From: "dhammoa175" Subject: Re: Minister touts ID card as vital to entering U.S. - ----- Original Message ----- > Subject: NATIONAL ID CARDS: "Can you ensure this won't be another bureaucratic nightmare," he asked. > > Minister touts ID card as vital to entering U.S.: Days of easy border > crossing over, Coderre tells committee >"If Canada has a secure identification card, it can convince the U.S. to >accept it as proof rather than force Canadians to go through a more >cumbersome system put in place by the U.S., Coderre said. Complete fabrication and utter deception! It disgusts me to hear the dishonest rhetoric prevalent in the Chretien Cabinet. Coderre joins the ranks of Rock, McClellan, Cauchon and Chretien as gross public deceivers with statist agendas. Coderre knows that the one document which has ALWAYS been demanded and accepted (and still is) for border crossing is a simple Canadian Birth certificate or SIN. There is also something called a passport. His arguments reflect the deceptive lies used to sell an escalating array of federal anti- civil liberty statutes. There IS no rational need for mandatory registered government ID cards unless it is to put citizens on government data bases to track their movements or personal travel or habits. Not in a free and open society that is. This is the same disingenious logic used to justify keeping police records of duck gun owners as "public safety". D The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. - -- H.L. Mencken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:18:48 -0600 (CST) From: "John Poulin" Subject: Re: NATIONAL ID CARDS On Friday, February 07, 2003 06:53 EST, Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1 wrote: > "The United States is reviewing their requirements for travelers into > their country," Coderre testified before the House of Commons Standing > Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. I don't know where he's been, but a National ID card has been in place for commercial truck drivers for a year now. It's good for five years and will cost you probably $50 bucks to renew it. The first time the taxpayer fronted the cost much like the gun registry. Great eh? Another registry that will cost you down the road. Canada, the land of process, process and yet, more process, not progress. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:32:36 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #737 "Guns were taken away from B.C.'s 1,500-parttime cops in 1998 following an incident where a van full of teenagers was accidentally sprayed with bullets. More than 1,000 auxiliaries eventually left their jobs and the remainder do mostly community relations duties." WTF??? - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:07:00 -0600 (CST) From: "BOB LICKACZ" Subject: HEY, HEY, HEY BRUCE >From Bruce Mills: Subject: national ID card "The time when Canadians and permanent residents could be confident of crossing the border into the United States solely on the basis of a valid driver's licence may well be over." If Canada has a secure identification card, it can convince the U.S. to accept it as proof rather than force Canadians to go through a more cumbersome system put in place by the U.S., Coderre said. Question: Does this mean the US will require every Ameriacan citizen to have an American ID card in order to cross into Canada? Seems to me it should work both ways. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:18:16 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Is ID debate in the cards? Bruce Mills wrote: > > http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-02-07-0072.html > > Friday, February 7, 2003 > > Is ID debate in the cards? > Immigration minister pushes for discussion > "This nation has to take its head out of the sand and address the > fundamentals, and identity is a fundamental," he said. What Cauchon and his statist buddies seem to have forgotten is that my "identity" belongs to *me*, not the State. Law abiding citizens should not have to prove who they are to the State. > Privacy commissioner George Radwanski has said the new card is part > of a growing intrusion of government into the private lives of Canadians. I don't think that George has been shown to be wrong in anything he's said so far. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:29:14 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration http://www.parl.gc.ca/InfoCom/CommitteeMember.asp?Language=E&Parliament=9&Joint=0&CommitteeID=272 Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration For more information, please contact : William Farrell, Clerk House of Commons Pièce/Room 672, 180 Wellington OTTAWA, Ontario K1A 0A6 Telephone :(613) 995-4026 Fax : (613) 943-0307 EMail :CIMM@parl.gc.ca Membership for the Committee CHAIR Joe Fontana VICE-CHAIRS Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Jerry Pickard MEMBERS Diane Ablonczy Sarkis Assadourian John Bryden Yvon Charbonneau Libby Davies Antoine Dubé Inky Mark Grant McNally Anita Neville John O'Reilly Massimo Pacetti David Price Lynne Yelich ASSOCIATE MEMBERS Yvan Loubier Jim Abbott Rob Anders David L. Anderson André Bachand Roy Bailey Rex Barnes Leon Benoit Bernard Bigras Bill Blaikie Rick Borotsik Garry Breitkreuz Scott Brison Andy Burton Chuck Cadman Serge Cardin Bill Casey Rick Casson David Chatters The Rt Hon. Joe Clark John Cummins Stockwell Day Norman Doyle John Duncan Reed Elley Ken Epp Brian Fitzpatrick Paul Forseth Cheryl Gallant Peter Goldring Jim Gouk Gurmant Grewal Deborah Grey Art Hanger Stephen Harper Richard Harris Loyola Hearn John Herron Grant Hill Jay Hill Howard Hilstrom Betty Hinton Rahim Jaffer Dale Johnston Gerald Keddy Jason Kenney Francine Lalonde Gary Lunn James Lunney Peter MacKay Keith Martin Brian Masse Philip Mayfield Val Meredith Rob Merrifield Bob Mills James Moore Deepak Obhrai Brian Pallister Charlie Penson James Rajotte Scott Reid John Reynolds Gerry Ritz Werner Schmidt Carol Skelton Monte Solberg Kevin Sorenson Larry Spencer Darrel Stinson Chuck Strahl Greg Thompson Myron Thompson Vic Toews Maurice Vellacott Joseph Volpe Judy Wasylycia-Leis Elsie Wayne Randy White Ted White John Williams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:38:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Paul Chicoine" Subject: ID Cards A couple years back there was discussion on this digest about an existing citizenship card. If I recall, it went for $60 and was good for life. I also seem to recall some folks talking up the virtues of this particular card because they often travel south. If this rings a bell please repost a description. svp Point if, the Coderre card has "s-f-a" to do with traveling to the States. If you vacation there, work there and can afford the exchange rate then there are already remedies available. Coderre is using a 9/11 spin off to force a system of "your papers please" on all of us. Its not for travel to the states its to slip another noose around our necks. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract, All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice _________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:38:50 -0600 (CST) From: "jim davies" Subject: The Idiot's name > I have lost the letter and do not remember the guy's name or the > organization he was affiliated with ( although I think it also was IFAW) and > would like to know if anyone can remember who it was and what became of him, > i.e.: was he let go or did he remain with Rock's office at DOJ. I remember this self righteous idiot, too and I am ashamed to say his last name was Davies. Can't remember the first name, Wendy or Wendell or whatever... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:54:43 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: ID Cards Paul Chicoine wrote: > > A couple years back there was discussion on this digest about an existing > citizenship card. > If I recall, it went for $60 and was good for life. > I also seem to recall some folks talking up the virtues of this particular card > because they often travel south. If this rings a bell please repost a > description. svp Yup, this is the "Citizenship Certificate" - forms to apply for one can be found at: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/applications/certif.html The fee is now $75, and I think you are required to notify the Government if you move, just like with a passport. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:07:59 -0600 (CST) From: Don Webb Subject: Re: HEY, HEY, HEY BRUCE > Caplan and her > comments before > racists and bigots". > Thats an insult to my Holstein Elenorh. I have a whole herd of cows, all great milkers. I name them after liberal members of parliament look alikes and name them accordingly. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #739 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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