From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #746 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, February 10 2003 Volume 05 : Number 746 In this issue: Pseudo Statistician RFC Ottawa Office Fund Raising Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #743 Il enregistre un tournevis comme arme à feu Letter: Gun registry just more political nonsense Editor's Comment (So much for Liberal accountability.) Letter: Absurd comment Letter: Gun registry, ID card, both erode rights Raymond Hessian concluded that the federal gun registry had been "suboptimized." Letter: Gun registry a waste of money Suicide Red Deer Advocate - Darts & bouquets Column: WHAT'S A BILLION? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:32:56 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: Pseudo Statistician "jim davies" wrote: > Typical number cruncher who can't see the forest for the trees. No doubt he > will soon drown in a river with an average depth of 16mm. Actually, I have a hard time believing he is a statistician. Or if he is, he isn't a very honest statistician. Statisticians aren't criminologists. On the other hand, they are very much aware of the issue of eliminating confounding factors, that correlation does not equal causation, and a host of other issues that he blithly ignores in his letter. He is either not a statistician or he is a very corrupt one who uses his job description to push his personal prejudices. You be the judge. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 23:45:23 -0600 (CST) From: Al Dorans Subject: RFC Ottawa Office Fund Raising RFC Ottawa/FED UP Canada Protecting Canadian Freedoms ................................. Dear Firearms Owner, (Name Withheld) February 10, 2003 Thanks kindly for your generous donation supporting the Ottawa RFC Office and our common cause. After decades of repeated setbacks, through the isolated and independent actions of the firearms community, those with foresight have recognized the wisdom of uniting our collective efforts through a national RFC Office in Ottawa. These goals are confirmed in our 2 primary objectives. 1. To provide professional leadership in the RFC fight to repeal and replace Bill C-68/FA with reasonable firearms legislation that reduces crime, saves lives, contributes to public safety and is cost effective. 2. To unify, build and unite the RFC through full mass memberships in firearms organizations and political parties. Jean Chretien won a majority Liberal government with 5 million votes out of Canada's 30 million population. Surely, 7 million gun owners, their spouses, sons, daughters, parents and those they influence, number close to 20 million Canadian voters. Motivate, activate and mobilize that "sleeping giant" to political action and you displace the minority of arrogant social engineers who have stolen our democratic rights and freedoms. The Ottawa RFC Office is an essential leadership vehicle toward that end. Thank you for your support. Professor Al Dorans Director, RFC Ottawa Chairman, FED UP Canada ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:10:28 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #743 Vulcan1 said: "..and I know we are all waiting for that "Happy Ending" to arrive (when they either give in and scrap it...or we elect another Government and oust the criminals out of office)" Actually, that will be the Begining, and the Lieberals know it. That's why their fighting so hard. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:21:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Il enregistre un tournevis comme arme à feu PUBLICATION: La Presse DATE: 2003.02.10 SECTION: Montréal Plus PAGE: E3 SOURCE: La Voix de l'Est BYLINE: Poulin, Charles PHOTO: Marois, Janick DATELINE: Bromont ILLUSTRATION: Quand Patrice Dumas a enregistré son tournevis étoile, ilcroyait bien que le ministère de la Justice s'en rendrait compte à un moment ou à un autre. Résultat: le permis reproduit ci-dessus. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Il enregistre un tournevis comme arme à feu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Si on en croit le gouvernement du Canada, le Bromontois Patrice Dumas possède deux armes à feu enregistrées à son nom. L'une d'entre elles est une carabine de marque Winchester, et la seconde est... un tournevis étoile! M. Dumas devait enregistrer sa carabine avant le 1er janvier auprès du ministère de la Justice. Pour tester le système, il a décidé de déclarer une deuxième arme: son tournevis. Le Ministère lui a retourné par courrier, il y a quelques jours, un certificat pour son arme à feu réelle et un second pour une arme de marque "Fuller" de type "tournevis", comportant un "mécanisme à levier" et ayant une longueur de canon "de 470 mm ou plus", sans plus de vérifications. "Ça fait dur en crime! accuse Patrice Dumas. Ça ne marche pas pantoute. J'ai marqué mécanisme à levier sur le questionnaire parce que je m'en sers pour ouvrir des pots de peinture... Je pourrais mettre une vis au bout, ça serait peut-être plus dangereux!" M. Dumas n'est pas le plus chaud partisan du programme d'enregistrement des armes à feu. Au départ, il ne pensait même pas enregistrer son arme. "J'ai reçu un avis du gouvernement qui m'avisait qu'on m'enlèverait mon permis de possession d'arme si je ne le faisais pas, explique-t-il. J'aurais été dans l'impossibilité d'acheter des munitions par la suite." Il s'est donc résigné à enregistrer son arme. Au début du mois de décembre, il a consulté le site Internet "débordé" du ministère de la Justice et, après six essais infructueux, a réussi à inscrire sa carabine gratuitement. Il a coché quelques cases et voilà! c'était fait. C'est là que l'idée du tournevis lui est venue. "J'avais entendu que des gens enregistraient à peu près n'importe quoi, raconte-t-il. Mais j'avais peur, je me suis dit que c'était beaucoup trop gros, qu'ils devaient être au courant, surtout après le rapport de la vérificatrice générale (qui soulignait un excès de coût de un milliard). J'étais convaincu qu'ils m'enverraient une mise en demeure ou quelque chose du genre." Patrice Dumas a décidé d'aller de l'avant. Quelques semaines plus tard, il recevait une lettre du gouvernement. "Il y avait un collant vert sur la feuille des permis, confie-t-il. Je me suis dit: Ça y est, ils m'ont pogné. Mais non, j'avais deux permis dans l'enveloppe: un pour la carabine, l'autre pour le tournevis. Je n'ai reçu aucun téléphone, aucun commentaire." M. Dumas déplore le fait que le Ministère ait validé son nom plutôt que son arme. "Je ne comprends pas, lance-t-il. Ils n'ont fait aucune vérification. Ils sont supposés protéger les honnêtes citoyens des personnes qui possèdent des armes à feu. Au prix où c'est rendu, tout le monde paye pour ça (le programme d'enregistrement). Ça va coûter combien jusqu'à ce que toutes les armes soient enregistrées? La date limite est toujours repoussée!" La Loi sur l'enregistrement des armes à feu devait entrer en vigueur le 1er janvier, mais le ministre de la Justice, Martin Cauchon, a annoncé en décembre dernier une période de grâce de six mois pour les retardataires. Selon une étude pour le compte du Centre canadien des armes à feu (CCAF) publiée en 2000, il y aurait 690 000 propriétaires d'armes à feu au Québec. Que compte faire Patrice Dumas avec son tournevis? Le ranger pour qu'il ne soit pas accessible aux enfants? "Non, laisse-t-il tomber en riant. Mais je pourrais peut-être aller à la chasse avec!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:51:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Gun registry just more political nonsense PUBLICATION: Windsor Star DATE: 2003.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: OPINION PAGE: A7 SOURCE: Windsor Star - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TALKING POINT A CHANCE TO HAVE YOUR SAY - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun registry just more political nonsense Bob Runciman, Ontario's Public Safety Minister, called the federal gun scheme a "collosal disaster." Justice Minister Martin Couchon said that Runciman was just playing politics because there is an Ontario election coming soon. Couchon should get the facts straight before he makes false accusations. Mr. Runciman has been complaining since 1995, when he attended a meeting with then-justice minister Alan Rock to address the Ontario Police Association about the proposed gun law. The Ontario Tories could not support the gun law because they did not feel it would prevent crime and it was estimated that registration could cost as much as $500 million. That was in 1995. Now for the good news. For those of us law-abiding citizens who registered our firearms early, we would do well to check the expiration date on our firearm licences, because we have to renew our licence every five years. Firearm registration started Jan. 1, 1998, do the math. Here we go again. Some people have yet to register and others have to re-register -- what a mess and waste of time and money. In December 2002, the prime minister said that "heads will roll," that he fired or demoted three or four civil servants who managed the gun control program. Maryantonett Flumian was a public servant in charge of the gun control centre and responsible for the cost overruns. The prime minister promoted her to the human resources department to clean up the mounting problems in that department. Lots of luck. LLOYD GRANDMAISON Kingsville ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:51:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editor's Comment (So much for Liberal accountability.) PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2003.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: 14 COLUMN: Letters to the Editor JUSTICE MINISTER Martin Cauchon and his department continue to mislead Parliament on costs and effectiveness of the gun registry. He tabled two reports in the House but failed to include a third document which forecast an additional $541 million will have to be spent over the next 10 years. The fact Cauchon failed to include this in the House is further proof that the Liberals continue to hide the truth about the registry. No one in the House, other than Cauchon and his henchmen were aware of the report until the press got hold of it the next day. Jim Hill Editor's Comment (So much for Liberal accountability.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:52:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Absurd comment PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2003.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A13 BYLINE: Gerry Gamble SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Absurd comment - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- So Citizenship and Immigration Minister Denis Coderre thinks that ID cards will enhance our privacy. One need only look at the job the Liberals did on the federal gun registry to see how laughable is his comment that "I'm a big fan of privacy. I believe that we should protect our privacy." How well did Mr. Coderre's Liberals maintain privacy in that project? While over-running costs 500 times, they allowed gun-registration envelopes with owners' names and addresses to be thrown into a public-access dumpster; issued hundreds of gun licences with the wrong photos or no photos on them; lost track of thousands of people with firearm prohibitions against them; and agreed to turn the registry over to a private company staffed with $9-an-hour clerks. And all this was managed while maintaining a vendetta against duck hunters and target shooters. If this government has been unable to ensure the privacy of a fairly small number of gun owners, it is sheer lunacy even to consider that it could maintain the integrity of a national ID-card system. Forget identity thieves. We're in much greater need of protection from this bunch of bumbling boobs. Gerry Gamble, St. Catharines ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:53:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Gun registry, ID card, both erode rights PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2003.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A13 BYLINE: Jim Hill SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun registry, ID card, both erode rights - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Coderre makes pitch for national ID card, Feb. 7. In attempting to create a national ID card for Canadians, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Denis Coderre is having a hard time with some fellow Liberal MPs. Apparently the idea of a card with a person's identification, including some biometric data, does not sit well with them. They are concerned that a national database would erode rights and could be subject to abuse. I wonder where the MPs' self-righteous indignation was when the government was attacking the most law-abiding segment of our society, the responsible firearms community. It had no qualms in forcing us to fill out intrusive questionnaires and jump through numerous hoops, all under threat of imprisonment, in order to achieve its aim. While I am not in favour of the national ID card, I do find it strange that the objections are so loud. The information contained in one should only be for identification, unlike the fire-arms licence application, which delve into your personal history. I also get a charge out of the fact that this is not a Canadian initiative, but rather a means to appease our neighbours to the south. It will shorten the lineups for people heading south on business or vacation. I am more concerned about how it would be used here in Canada, and feel the politicians are right in not supporting it. However, they seem to be selective in whose rights they are concerned about. Jim Hill, Fletchers Lake, N.S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:55:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Raymond Hessian concluded that the federal gun registry had been "suboptimized." PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun DATE: 2003.02.09 EDITION: Final SECTION: Comment PAGE: C4 ILLUSTRATION: 4 file photos 1. photo of ELEANOR CAPLAN Pilot 2. photo of SHARON CARSTAIRS Language 3. photo of JIM PANKIW Boast 4. photo of PETER MILLIKEN What's the word? BYLINE: BILL RODGERS, PARLIAMENTARY BUREAU COLUMN: Capital Chat [SNIP] - --- In a recent report to the government, consultant Raymond Hessian concluded that the federal gun registry had been "suboptimized." That prompted the following question from Tory Senator Lowell Murray with the answer provided by the leader of the Grit government in the Senate, Sharon Carstairs: Sen. Murray: "As an old English teacher, does the minister agree that, from the point of view of the government, the coining of such an elegant term as 'suboptimal' to describe the gun registry in place of crude and pejorative expressions, such as 'fiasco' and 'screw-up,' was worth the $150,000 they paid for it?" Sen. Carstairs: "As an old English teacher, although I primarily taught history, I do not like new vocabulary as it is advanced, often because I do not know what it means." - --- [SNIP] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:55:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Gun registry a waste of money PUBLICATION: The Leader-Post (Regina) DATE: 2003.02.08 EDITION: Final SECTION: Letters PAGE: B8 BYLINE: Bruce Howard SOURCE: The Leader-Post - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun registry a waste of money - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- In response to recent comments about the benefit of the gun registry, I write the following opposing view. I support firearm safety training, and licensing of firearm owners as it promotes safe use of guns, and helps to reduce the likelihood of unsafe people from being able to legally buy a firearm. However, having to register all firearms will not help to reduce crime. For people who don't own guns, think of it this way. If we wanted to reduce the number of automobile accidents in Canada, it would make sense to train people to drive safely, and to prevent people who are unsafe drivers from being able to drive. But registering all the cars in Canada does not reduce or prevent car accidents, and it doesn't prevent cars from being stolen and used illegally. A reference to 60 gun-related homicides in Toronto in 2002 raises the question of how many of those guns were legally possessed. I suspect that most guns used in criminal activity are stolen and therefore not legally possessed, so having them registered or not is a moot point. The critical component of preventing firearm related crime is to keep guns out of the hands of people who would commit crimes, either by screening them out when they apply for a firearms licence, or by imposing strict sentences on those who use firearms when breaking the law. These penalties can be prescribed under the Criminal Code of Canada. When you see a story in the media about a crime involving a gun, ask yourself: "I wonder how that person got the gun?" -- not "I wonder if that gun was registered?". The gun registry will not prevent crime in our country, and spending a billion-plus dollars on a gun registry, and even more money to maintain it, will not make us any safer. It will, however, waste a tremendous amount of our money. Bruce Howard Emerald Park ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:56:31 -0600 (CST) From: Rae Baker Subject: Suicide why is the government wanting to stop suicides, Itn't that the perogative of the person who is involved. More freedoms lost. I would appreciate a list of the guns shows in southern Ontario, eg the Hamilton Military Gun show, and the one that is in St. Catharines Ontario. Also the address' of the PM. and Parliment. Rae Baker Burlington,Ont/ Key West Fl. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:57:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Red Deer Advocate - Darts & bouquets PUBLICATION: Red Deer Advocate DATE: 2003.02.08 SECTION: Comment PAGE: A4 BYLINE: Zemanek, Rick; McLaughlin, Joe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darts & bouquets - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To gunslinger Bruce Hutton, for his foolish stunt in protest of the federal gun registry. Hutton marched to the city RCMP detachment this week with his lawyer and a group of supporters in tow. His goal was to get arrested for carrying an illegal weapon, so he could create a court forum to challenge the federal gun legislation. His unregistered weapon was a caulking gun, with part of a .22 calibre rifle welded to it. It was a joke, not a gun. Hutton and thousands of like-minded citizens are justifiably furious over the extravagant costs and dubious value of the federal gun registry. They have valid points to make. The registry was originally projected to cost taxpayers only $2 million, but now its costs will zoom over $1 billion in the next few years, including tens of thousands of dollars in performance bonuses paid to the federal civil servants managing this wholly broken system. The Toronto chief of police, Julian Fantino, recently detailed his horror stories in unsuccessfully trying to register his weapons, and said the gun registry will do nothing to improve the safety of the public or his officers. A huge part of the national criticism is that money wasted on the gun registry could be better spent paying for more police officers, who could go out and catch real crooks, rather than having the federal government demonize hunters with onerous costs and regulations. But the thrust of that argument gets lost when people like Hutton waste the expensive time of RCMP officers with a ridiculous media stunt. If you want to make a political protest, Hutton, don't squander the time of our undermanned, overworked police force. And if you want to get arrested for carrying an unlicensed weapon, have the courage - as former legislative sergeant-at-arms Oscar Lacombe recently did - and come forward with a real gun, not some idiotic prop. - - Joe McLaughlin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:58:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Column: WHAT'S A BILLION? PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun DATE: 2003.02.08 EDITION: Final SECTION: Comment PAGE: 14 ILLUSTRATION: photo by Jim Young, Reuters FINANCE MINISTER John Manley speaks in the House of Commons yesterday. Manley announced he will table his first federal budget Feb. 18. BYLINE: WALTER ROBINSON, OTTAWA SUN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT'S A BILLION? THE LIBERALS HAVE BLOWN $1 BILLION HERE AND $1 BILLION THERE, MONEY THAT COULD HAVE BEEN USED ON SOMETHING FAR MORE USEFUL THAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE GUN REGISTRY - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, it's official: John Manley will table his first -- and most likely last - -- budget on Tuesday, Feb. 18 around 4 p.m. Look for the federal government to project tax collections of almost $180 billion, with program spending hovering around $136 billion and the remaining $44 billion going to interest payments on the national debt and a projected surplus. While it all seems so neat and tidy in the budget documents, one should stop and ponder: What is a billion dollars, and what could it actually buy? Of course we know how our federal friends can blow a billion dollars pretty quickly -- think of the HRDC boondoggle or gun registry fiasco -- but again, these numbers get thrown around so quickly and in such a cavalier manner that they lose their shock value. A few years back, a major polling firm asked Canadians to identify how many millions were in one billion. The choices given were 100, 1,000, 10,000 and one million. Only 30% of respondents correctly chose 1,000 millions to make up a billion. Such is the economic literacy of Canadians. So let's look at $1 billion this way. If you had a dollar for every second that passed starting from right now and moving forward, it would take you 31 years, 8 months, 16 days and a few hours to get to one billion seconds. Just think of it, HRDC lost this amount of money in one internal audit and the federal gun registry boondoggle is project to cost us $1 billion in just under a decade. In other words, by 2004 the feds have blown three dollars per second on a firearms registry which still doesn't work, hasn't stopped one homicide in a major Canadian city and really is a black eye on the federal Liberals' boastful record of strong financial management ... a lie if there ever was one. Here's what $1 billion could have purchased in the area of crime prevention and public safety: $1 billion could have been used to allocate $3,235 more to investigate every violent crime committed in Canada in 2002. For $1 billion you could purchase 21 million trigger locks and 21 million long-gun carrying cases or purchase 7 million gun cabinets from a store like Canadian Tire. Here's another idea, victims of crime generally receive between $5,000 and $25,000. If we assume the highest compensation level, then we could compensate 40,000 victims of crime with $1 billion. If we were really interested in catching the bad guys -- you know the murderers who take our families and friends -- $1 billion could be used to spend $1.8 million per reward to help get a conviction for every murder committed last year in the country. And once we found these people, tried them and hopefully convicted them, $1 billion could pay for 40% of all adult jail costs for a year. But let's not stop there. One billion dollars could be used to pay for the running of all courts in Canada with a cool $75 million left over to purchase 20 state-of-the-art MRI machines. If getting guns off the street were really the government's intention, $1 billion would be better used to budget for 454 years of operating the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team, which has seized 2,000 illegal weapons in two years. But wait, yours truly has more. If we wanted to be proactive, $1 billion could be used to pay 17% more police officers to walk the beat and patrol our streets, -- that's 68,000 officers in 2003. While we in Ottawa are fortunate to live in a very safe city given our growing population base, imagine Toronto with its 60 homicides last year. One billion dollars could operate Toronto's police force -- the country's largest -- for two years. Finally, $1 billion would allow taxpayers to pay for one year of operating every local police force in all the provinces except Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia with a nice sum of $140 million left over. And coincidentally enough, that is just the amount the feds are pegged to collect in fees for their boondoggle gun registry. We could refund that money back to law-abiding gun owners and duck hunters. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #746 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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