From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #747 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, February 10 2003 Volume 05 : Number 747 In this issue: ARTICLE: Public spurning politics, poll finds where are your papers?? (German accent) Re: Letter to Mississauga News Southern Ontario Gun Shows Is there any truth to the rumour ... Man faces multiple charges: Arrested again only four days after being released Letter: Gun owner tells of nightmare to register firearms Ratting Out Gun laws 'make criminals of innocent rural people' B.C. Indian band will begin issuing its own firearms licences Letter: Gun registry has not made society safer Letter: Grit hypocrisy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:58:53 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Public spurning politics, poll finds http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20030210/UPOLLN/Headlines/headdex/headdexNational_temp/8/8/15/ Public spurning politics, poll finds Government doesn't listen, Canadians say By BRIAN LAGHI Monday, February 10, 2003 – Print Edition, Page A4 OTTAWA -- The streets have fewer protesters, petitions are on the wane and boycotts are not as popular, as Canadians look for other ways to change the world around them, a poll suggests. The results, contained in an exhaustive survey of Canadian attitudes on society, paint a picture of a country whose citizens increasingly spurn political activity. The survey also indicates that Canadians believe their government does not listen to them, and that a lack of an effective opposition in Parliament is a greater threat to their democracy than terrorism. On the plus side, however, Canadians believe they can make a difference by volunteering with local organizations, and they have generous attitudes toward the less fortunate. "I think politics are no longer relevant to Canadians in general," said Andre Turcotte, a Carleton University professor and pollster. "Things are generally okay without the politicians, so they think, 'Why should I get involved?' " The poll was produced for Carleton University's Arthur Kroeger College of Public Affairs by public-opinion firm Pollara Inc., and will be released tomorrow. Pollara surveyed 1,000 people and said the poll is accurate to within 3.1 percentage points. Although the poll found that 66 per cent of Canadians say they are interested in politics, most say they participate less in the traditional methods of protesting or changing the way things are run. For example, of those surveyed, 40 per cent say they had attended political rallies in the past year or in the more distant past -- a drop of six percentage points from the year before. Similarly, the number of those who sign petitions dropped by five percentage points, and the number of those joining political parties and Internet chat groups dropped by three percentage points. Thirty per cent say they had written letters to newspapers, a drop of one percentage point. Voter numbers in the last federal election serve to support some of the poll's findings. Only 62.8 per cent of elegible voters turned up to cast ballots in the 2000 federal election, the lowest number since Confederation. Prof. Turcotte argued that the past 10 years of government under the federal Liberals may be one cause of the public's declining political involvement. Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's hands-off management style, coupled with the humming economy, may have convinced Canadians that they do not need to be involved because government has little effect on circumstances, he said. "We may be reaping the consequences of the last 10 years." Copyright © 2003 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:59:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: where are your papers?? (German accent) >GO VOTE: >http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/ > >Q1: Should Canada adopt national ID cards with biometric identifiers, such >as a thumbprints or iris scans, to combat the problem of identity theft? >Total Votes for this Question: 8504 >So far, 59% have voted for Yes, anything to keep people from being me >So far, 36% have voted for No, it's Big Brother >So far, 3% have voted for Don't know >So far, 2% have voted for Don't care ========= The national ID for his own and conquered countries was a priority for Mr. Hitler. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:11:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Re: Letter to Mississauga News >THE MISSISSAUGA NEWS >Don't ignore the facts >Dear Editor: > > >The Mississauga News >Feb 7, 2003 > >As a dual citizen of both the United States and Canada who has lived in >both >countries for more than 20 years, and who is a statistician by profession, >I >feel more qualified than most to compare the standard of living and >especially when it comes to the subject of gun control. >Both Canada and the U.S. are among the greatest countries to live in, and >we >should feel privileged to be able to live on this continent. In the U.S., >the advantages are a better climate and a somewhat less regulated lifestyle >to pursue your own interests (i.e., less government interference). In >Canada, a much lower crime rate and better social programs, especially in >access to medical care. > >My own situation has caused me to choose to live in Canada in retirement. >Although Canada has a substantially higher crime rate than most European >countries, where I also lived for about 10 years, it is microscopic >compared >to the U. S. The death rate due to firearms in Canada is only about >one-tenth of that in the U.S., which means that you have 10 times the >chance >of being killed by a firearm if you live south of the border! > >Surely one cannot logically argue that the relatively easy access to >firearms in the U.S. is not a contributing factor. After all, this is a >historical reality which is proven every year. Relaxing firearm >restrictions >to make them as accessible as they are in U.S. would result in the deaths >of >thousands more Canadians each year - after all there are more than 40,000 >deaths each year in U.S. related to firearms. How can advocates of the gun >lobby ignore these facts? Let us not ignore the constant lesson we get from >south of the border. While there are many things we should emulate from our >neighbours, their lack of gun control is not one of them. > >Abe Paul >Mississauga ========= What patronizing pap, Abe, you pussy! If it wasn't for the military might of the USA, we'd not be enjoying the freedom we have now. Canada sits in the shadow of the USA, spending nothing on the military and prospering financially. I don't appreciate whiners who constantly criticize the US. Sure, they are not perfect. Who is? I like the US and I don't care who knows it. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:12:37 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Southern Ontario Gun Shows Rae Baker wrote: > I would appreciate a list of the guns shows in southern Ontario, eg the > Hamilton Military Gun show, and the one that is in St. Catharines > Ontario. You just missed the Ancaster Gun Show, yesterday (I managed to get there around 11; it was still pretty packed). Next one in two months. You can find a schedule for some southern Ontario gun shows at one of my websites at: http://www.hwcn.org/~aj233/gunshows.html The Sporting Clubs of Niagara have a show coming up on Friday Feb 14; they have a website at: http://www.vaxxine.com/scon/ They have info on their shows and the location there. > Also the address' of the PM. and Parliment. All Members of Parliament can be mailed at no cost at: House of Commons Ottawa, ON K1A 0A6 Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:22:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Is there any truth to the rumour ... Can anyone shed light on whether Hinter (and Ed Burlew??) are speaking with Justice on our behalf? If these "secret meetings" are actually being held, just who are they representing? Just wondering. Cheers, R. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:22:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Man faces multiple charges: Arrested again only four days after being released PUBLICATION: The Telegram (St. John's) DATE: 2003.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A1 / Front BYLINE: Michael Connors SOURCE: The Telegram - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man faces multiple charges: Arrested again only four days after being released - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Police have rearrested a 35-year-old Lethbridge man, four days after he was released from custody, where he had been held on more than 40 domestic violence charges. Albert Rodney Waye has a total of 47 charges against him, including four counts of assault and one count of uttering death threats during an alleged incident involving his common-law wife and her children last August. He was arrested after that incident and released on his own recognizance. On Jan. 31, Waye was arrested again and charged with two counts of assault with a weapon, six counts of assault, seven counts of uttering death threats, two counts of intimidation, two firearms offences and one count of unlawful confinement. He was also hit with 18 counts of breaching the conditions of his release. He was released on his own recognizance last Tuesday, but was picked up again Saturday by the RCMP for allegedly breaching two of the conditions of his release. COURT DATE TODAY Waye will appear in provincial court in Bonavista this morning where police will ask again that he be held in custody. "There was every indication he was going to do it again," said RCMP Const. Doug Brannen. "We're hoping we can get him held, quite bluntly." LONG LIST OF CONDITIONS Brannen said the conditions of Waye's first release were extensive. Waye couldn't drink alcohol, he couldn't have contact with his common-law wife, he couldn't possess firearms and he had to live at a predetermined residence with a curfew, to name a few. "They went on and on and on," Brannen said. During his second release, Waye was required to live with his parents in Lethbridge on the Bonavista Peninsula. He had to put up his pickup truck as a surety and promise not to leave his parents' home unless they accompanied him. Brannen said tips from the public and "old fashioned man-hunting techniques" led the RCMP to find and arrest Waye again Saturday. "He was found in another residence ... but he wasn't with his parents," Brannen said. Waye is scheduled to answer his original list of charges Feb. 24. mconnors@thetelegram.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:25:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Gun owner tells of nightmare to register firearms PUBLICATION: The New Brunswick Telegraph Journal DATE: 2003.02.10 SECTION: Opinion PAGE: A7 COLUMN: Readers' Forum - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun owner tells of nightmare to register firearms - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps someone could suggest what action I might undertake to obtain some action, or even reaction, from the Canadian Firearms Centre. My story begins two and one-half years ago in July of 2000. I obtained the forms from the Post Office for a possession permit and to register my firearms. The firearms consisted of two rifles, two shotguns, and a revolver. The revolver was used as a peace officer protection measure during my employment with the Department of Natural Resources (night hunting). The forms were completed and mailed to the Canadian Firearms Centre in Miramichi. I had entered my credit card number to cover the registration costs. This action was substantiated when my statement showed a debt of $10 and $14 to GOC - Justice Firearms Ottawa on Aug. 2, 2000. This was posted to my account on Aug. 4, 2000. I thought that I would be ahead of the pack and avoid the rush. Approximately nine months later I received a photo Possession Only Firearm permit #1037243.0001. By the year 2001, I got concerned that I had not received my gun registration permits. I made more than 30 telephone calls to the centre. The results? Only a long recorded message to call again and disconnect, or a busy signal. Finally I reached a real live person who checked my file with my possession permit number. The story was that there was lots of time before the final registration date of Jan. 1, 2003 and that I would receive my registration permits in lots of time. I was comforted by this 'don't worry' message. To my surprise, on Jan. 9, 2002 I received a cheque from the Department of Justice for $14 indicating a refund for my gun registrations two years previously. Subsequent to the refund, I received two letters from the firearms centre with forms to fill out if I wished to register my guns. The letter said not to send the forms if I had already done so. After many unsuccessful attempts to contact the centre by telephone, I drove to Miramichi. I found the centre by simply asking local citizens. To my surprise the building was sealed - all doors locked. At the back of the building I found several women who worked at the centre outside smoking. They confirmed that the building was sealed to the public. This caused more anxiety on my part and I went through long and wasteful process of repetitive calls to the centre. Eventually, my call got through to a real live person. The same process followed and I was again told not to worry because I would have my gun registrations before the Jan. 1, 2003 deadline. In December of the year just past (2002), with only a few weeks remaining until the final registration date, I again went through the process of attempting to contact the centre. I made four calls on Dec. 10 with nothing but recordings or busy signals. To my surprise on Dec. 11, on my second call I got a real live person. I gave my name and possession permit number and asked where were my promised registration permits. After a short delay, this woman said that my registration permits had been sent out with my possession permits (two years ago?). I finally lost my cool and in no uncertain terms told her that they had not sent the registration permits in spite of repeated requests. This woman transferred my call to a second woman. We started again with name and possession permit. After some delay the second woman said, "Oh yes, I have found your file." I replied that was good, but stated that they only had two weeks until the Jan. 1 2003 deadline. She stated that they could not send out the permits because the information had to be sent to Ottawa. I indicated that I was completely frustrated and absolutely disgusted with the firearms treatment. I asked to be connected to the person in charge of the centre. She transferred my call. Guess what? It turned out to be someone's voice mail. I proceeded to demand to know what was going on in regard to my gun registrations. Of course, I left my name and telephone number, but no answer has been forthcoming. It would seem to me that the application form completed, more than 100 telephone call attempts, a Miramichi visit and two promises of delivery over a two and one-half year period should be sufficient to register my guns. Unfortunately, the confused firearms centre is unable to register all the firearms as presently organized and staffed. Federal Auditor General Sheila Fraser stated the cost will soon be more than one billion dollars. What about the millions of dollars worth or time and effort spent by me and a million or so other citizens who are ordinary gun owners trying to comply with gun registration. Some gun owners have succeeded, some have not, and others are not even trying. I do not believe the registration of sporting guns will ever work as presently staffed and structured. It is time for the government to take action. The public and private cost is beyond compilation, to complete a never-ending gun registration process - no matter how well intentioned in its inception. ROBERT McLAGGAN Fredericton ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:25:51 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Ratting Out Bruce Mills wrote: > Randy Schmidt wrote: http://canada2.justice.gc.ca/en/dept/pub/index.html "F" Federal Prosecution Service Deskbook PDF > > At location 1.2 is "the Supreme Court of Canada has held that the > > objective of the criminal law is to maintain a just, peaceful and safe > > society" "...Our criminal law is also a system of values". > More reading to do...thanks again, Randy! How about Section 26: Private Prosecutions ?? "The right of a private citizen to lay an information" Richard Fritze thinks we might be able to get a firearms charge into court by this route. How do we look if we "Rat-Out" our buddies (with their permission, of course) ? Sincerely, Eduardo http://www.cufoa.ca "Never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:26:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Gun laws 'make criminals of innocent rural people' PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2003.02.10 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A6 BYLINE: Keith Fraser SOURCE: The Province ILLUSTRATION: Colour Photo: ROLF PFEIFFER: 'very pleased' with protests!@IMAGES=Colour Photo: / ROLF PFEIFFER: 'very pleased' with protests [289203-72277.jpg]; - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun laws 'make criminals of innocent rural people' - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- An estimated 500 people gathered in the parking lot of a 100 Mile House restaurant yesterday to protest Canada's controversial gun-registration law. "We had 400 handout sheets. We gave them all out and people were still asking us for them," said organizer Rolf Pfeiffer, 38, a sawmill worker and father of one. "I'm very pleased. We did the one in Kamloops, too, on the 18th of January and we got about 350 people. This one was a much larger turnout." 100 Mile House Mayor Donna Barnett, who spoke at yesterday's rally against Bill C68, said the legislation has not protected women and children from crime. "It has made innocent people from rural B.C. -- hunters and people who make their living from it -- basic criminals if they don't comply with Bill C68," Barnett said. "It has taken dollars that we need for health care, policing, education and social programs that would possibly protect women and children and seniors from crimes." Barnett called on people to write, fax or phone their opposition to Prime Minister Jean Chretien in a bid to have the law repealed. "We were never consulted when this bill was put into consideration," she said. "It was strictly made by the urban centres. It was made on emotion and not on fact." Bill C68 became law seven years ago and firearms owners were initially expected to register their guns by Dec. 31, 2002. Due to bureaucratic bottlenecks and backlogs, that deadline has since been extended. The program came under fire when Auditor-General Sheila Fraser revealed it could cost as much as $1 billion by 2005. Of Canada's 1.9 million gun owners, about 1.3 million have already registered. kfraser@png.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:33:31 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: B.C. Indian band will begin issuing its own firearms licences PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2003.02.09 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A3 COLUMN: B.C. News SOURCE: News Services DATELINE: WILLIAMS LAKE - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Native licences only - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WILLIAMS LAKE --The Tsilhqot'in Indian tribal band in the Chilcotin area of B.C. will begin issuing its own firearms licences instead of those issued by the government of Canada. Licences will be issued to Tsilhqot'in Nation members who live on or are on the band list of the six Tsilhqot'in Indian reserves. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:34:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Gun registry has not made society safer PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : SAT FEB.08,2003 PAGE : A15 CLASS : Focus EDITION : - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Letters to the Editor - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gun registry has not made society safer MP Anita Neville states we are all much safer due to the gun registry, despite its runaway costs. However, the statistics she uses to justify federal mismanagement are particularly pernicious. The 50 per cent drop in robberies can in no way be attributed to the type of firearms targeted in the registry since robberies committed with a rifle or shotgun are only one per cent of all armed robberies (220 incidents in 2000 according to Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics). Consider that handgun robberies make up 14 per cent of armed robberies and arrests at knifepoint a whopping 22 per cent (4,669 incidents in 2000). The handgun registration requirement in place since the 1930s has not seemed to influence the steady rise in handgun use. If the intent of Canada's gun-registry system is to educate potential gun owners and screen for those who should not be granted the right to possess, the $1 billion has been particularly misspent. Under the previous FAC system which was strengthened by the Progressive Conservatives after the Ecole Polytechnique massacre, licence refusals averaged 0.76 per cent. Bill C-68 has lowered that refusal rate to 0.35 per cent during the last three years. Either more people are getting access to guns or those who should be refused are simply joining the black-market trade in guns, something the Liberal government has devoted no resources to fighting. Canadians can rightly conclude that the society we live in is no safer because of this government's program. MIKE REILLY Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:35:13 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Letter: Grit hypocrisy PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2003.02.08 EDITION: National SECTION: Editorials PAGE: A19 COLUMN: Letters BYLINE: Jim Hill SOURCE: National Post DATELINE: FLETCHERS LAKE, N.S. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grit hypocrisy - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Coderre Seeks Public Input on National ID Card, Feb. 7. Immigration Minister Denis Coderre, is proposing a National ID card for Canadians and is having a hard time with his fellow members of the Liberal party. Apparently, the idea of a card with a person's identification, including some biometrics data, does not float well with them. They are concerned that a national database would erode rights and could be subject to abuse. I wonder where this concern was when they were attacking the most law abiding segment of our society, the responsible firearms community. They had no qualms in forcing us to fill out intrusive questionnaires and jump through numerous hoops all under threat of imprisonment, in order to achieve their aim. While I am not in favour of a National ID card, I do find it strange that the objections are so loud. The information contained in the proposed ID card should only be for identification, unlike the firearms licence application which delved into people's personal history. I am concerned that they seem to be selective in whose rights they should be concerned about. Jim Hill, Fletchers Lake, N.S. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #747 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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