From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #752 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, February 11 2003 Volume 05 : Number 752 In this issue: Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW Missing report complaint bureau ....loss of moral compass.... Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW Re: ARTICLE: Layton hits a rough patch just 2 weeks into new job Fired, or Named.....? Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW Re: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #749 Dear old Dalton No gun in school Re: Fired, or Named.....? Williams Lake native band sets up own gun licences Cambridge woman 'frantic' during 911 call, court hears ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:58:40 -0600 (CST) From: "C. Dillabough" Subject: Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW Bob, Glad to hear that the audit report is finally being circulated to NFA members and would-be members. The word of what has been going on needs to reach more people. I personally have encouraged many folks to join the NFA and now feel badly betrayed and stupid in the eyes of those I encouraged to join. I have a reputation of honesty and I recommended a bum steer to my friends. It is also nice to see that HUGE billboard out there on 16....I know the location well from my travels. However I dare say that it is the brain dead Lieberal voters here in Ontario that really need to be reached in order to make a difference, and I am pleased to hear that is your next project. All the best to you LUFA folks, Charles Dillabough ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:51 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Missing report The 65 page HLB Decision Economics - Canadian Firearms Program review, Business Case Assessment and Risk Analysis is available: Some positive changes are suggested . . >Please provide us your mailing address and we will send you a >hard copy. >Web Administrator/Administrateur du site Web >Department of Justice / Ministère de la Justice >284 Wellington Street/284 rue Wellington >Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0H8 >webadmin@justice.gc.ca >www.canada.justice.gc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:20:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: complaint bureau > > Staff-Sgt. Bryan Lupson said the alleged incident will be > > investigated once Saeed files a complaint to the force's complaint > > bureau. > > ........The hell with that..get a good lawyer and sue their ass off !! ========== Hahahahahaha. Complaint bureau! Cover-up bureau is more like it. The police are less accountable every day. This government gives itself, and their agents, the police, more power all the time. Complaint bureaus are just set up as forums for citizens to blow off some steam, without actually addressing the complaint. For those who persist in pursuing the complaint, the complaint bureau is expert at raising new roadblocks to any investigation and bogging things down in red tape. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:22:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: ....loss of moral compass.... I raised this issue in discussion socially over the weekend. It brought = forth some lively comment. Back when the earth's crust was still cooling and I was a student at an = Ontario 'collegiate' highschool, we had instilled in us a clear 'moral = compass'. Not only was there prayer (I can hear the hackles rising....) and a hymn = at our weekly assembly, most of us came from homes where there was some = religious instruction and/or church attendance. Most of the kids I knew = were Ukrainian or Russian Orthodox, Slovaks, Poles - the children of = post-war immigrants we 'native born' with Anglo-Saxon names sneeringly = referred to as "DP's". In addition, a lot of us were members of the various cadet = organizations, CGIT, Militia, etc. and prior to that, Boy Scouts, = Guides, etc.=20 As cadets, we were all exposed to the DND/DCRA rifle training program = and taught the fundamentals of marksmanship. Many of us also shot on our school rifle team indoor range with = wonderful Winchester Model 52 target rifles with ammo supplied! The Friday before hunting season, we were allowed to bring our personal = rifles to the range where a teacher supervised them being laid on the = shooting ramps until school was over for the day. Then with either our = own or school ammo, we zeroed our Remingtons, Marlins, Mossbergs, = Cooeys, etc. At every step along the way, we were inculcated with the message that we = were morally culpable and responsible to God, the Queen, our country, = school, families and society as a whole. A high aspiration was service = in one of the armed forces. We were held to a high standard of conduct = and there were penalties and censure for misconduct, not the least being = peer disapproval. Insubordination or disrespect to a teacher was guaranteed to cost an = hour of detention and repeat or serious breeches of acceptable behaviour = warranted various periods of suspension depending upon the severity of = the offence. I can't recall having anything but the highest regard and respect for my = teachers even when the heavy hand of discipline fell upon my head; = deservedly, I assure you. Hey, it was the age of the teen 'Rebel Without = A Cause" and James Dean ruled the silver screen! Elvis was just = acquiring his blue suede shoes and new Meteor cost $1500! The point of this nostalgic rambling? We had an inbuilt 'moral compass'. = A 'Columbine'-like incident was unthinkable. Self esteem was earned, not = assumed as a right without ensuing responsibility and a sense of duty = beyond one's self interest. Somehow, a later generation got away from = that value system. I can't help but think that if not the world, our society at least was a = better place for those values. Todd Birch Merritt,BC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:23:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Mark Horstead" Subject: Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW - ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Dillabough" To: Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 9:58 PM Subject: Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW > However I dare say that it is the brain dead > Lieberal voters here in Ontario that really need to be reached in order to > make a difference, and I am pleased to hear that is your next project. It's not so much the brain dead Lieberal voters here, but the brain-dead federal PC voters who still think that their party is relevant or actually conservative. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:34:30 -0600 (CST) From: Don Webb Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Layton hits a rough patch just 2 weeks into new job - --- Bruce Mills wrote: > > Damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's what > happens when you found your > power base on disparate Special Interest Groups... > > > http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1035777609042&call_pageid=970599119419 > > > Feb. 10, 2003. 01:00 AM > > Layton hits a rough patch just 2 weeks into new job > NDP leader under fire as aide resigns Faces > criticism for early decisions > > ANDREW CHUNG > OTTAWA BUREAU > > OTTAWA—The honeymoon appears to be over for rookie > NDP Leader Jack Layton. > > Barely two weeks after he won the party leadership, > some of Layton's early > decisions have come under intense scrutiny, and even > heavier criticism. > > The former Toronto city councillor is now being > mocked in some activist circles > for accepting the resignation of long-time animal > rights activist Rick Smith, > who left his job at the International Fund for > Animal Welfare to become Layton's > chief of staff. > Layton is nothing more than an extremist red-neck from Toronto. Pretty tough running a party from a phone booth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:51:56 -0600 (CST) From: Ed Tait Subject: Fired, or Named.....? "CEO of Firearms Centre fired." "Cauchon said Friday the dismissal of Gary Webster, chief executive officer of the centre for the past two years, was the first of several measures he plans in response to a scathing report on the program from Auditor General Sheila Fraser and two separate inquiries conducted by private-sector firms." "Webster, deputy head of the program before becoming its chief officer in 2001, was named a special adviser to the deputy minister of justice, Morris Rosenberg." I dearly love the new use of language..... "Fired and Dismissal," used to have some meaning, they meant that you had lost your job and that you would be seeking another, with a new employer. Now apparently they simply mean you are being, "named" to a new job, with the same employer, the Canadian taxpayer..... This, my old Dad would have said was, "Bull----" Ed Tait Victoria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:52:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Progun" Subject: Re: EDMONTON GUN SHOW Hello To All: For 2 years I dropped of NFA material all over northern and western Canada to do my pitiful part in this battle for freedom.The results are dubious to say the least but I did try.Because the NFA stickers on my truck and trailer have people coming and asking me questions about the fascist law and YES about the NFA quite often. I found myself in quandary what do I say about the NFA without my own views/bias's tainting my answer?My solution?Instead of NFA pamphlets I have the audit and court orders(with the parts obeyed circled) and approx. 25 pages of questions by different people and Jim Hinters multiple promises to answer "in a few days".I pass these on and give out the new number and tell them read this and then decide for yourself.A couple of times I've been re-approached with the words "NOT on your life" and if I was you I remove those stickers. What a tangled web we weave........ Buddy+Weiser(Bear's Grandson) PS:Belated Happy New Years from the NWT PS2:God this is beautiful country and I've NEVER seen more wolves.Keep a 12 gauge close and the pup closer(although I'm not sure you can call 100lbs of arrogant Malamute a Pup) I just wish I could convince him he's not a lap dog. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:54:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robert LaCasse Subject: Re: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #749 I have explicitly noticed, that Lawyer$ cost money, when referring to the legal firearms owner in Random Confiscation/Permit issues! Cops already have a free [Gov't] lawyer, and perge themselves all over the place according to the original facts in the Crown Reports... If a citizen did that, they would be up on consecutive perjury charges! It's not Fair....it's just nut friggin Fair is it!!!!!!1 Yours in Justice Bob On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:08:28 -0600 (CST), you wrote: |>------------------------------ |> |>Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:01:25 -0600 (CST) |>From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com |>Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #749 |> |>In a message dated 2/10/2003 2:03:53 PM Central Standard Time, |>owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: |> |> |>> Staff-Sgt. Bryan Lupson said the alleged incident will be |>> investigated once Saeed files a complaint to the force's complaint |>> bureau. |> |> ........The hell with that..get a good lawyer and sue their ass off !! |> |>------------------------------ Triad Productions-Fantalla(c)~EZine~ParaNovel www>> http://triad.virtualave.net/siteindex.html off-net>> http://triad.virtualave.net/contact.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:56:50 -0600 (CST) From: zulu_tango Subject: Dear old Dalton Hello all, Has anyone seen any opinion polls recently regarding the Ontario political landscape? Even though the PCs have been somewhat less that stellar in their handling of the firearms act, a Liberal government would be disastrous. From their "Crime and Safety" section: - ---------------------- Dalton McGuinty and the Liberals believe in real solutions to real problems. That's why we are putting forward concrete ideas to keep our communities safe. For example, we've introduced legislation that would ban the sale of replica guns, which look just like real guns, and are often used in crimes. Like the police, we support the federal government's gun registry law, which the provincial government is opposing in the courts. In the last election, we campaigned on establishing safe school zones, with tough penalties for anyone who carries a weapon or peddles drugs near our schools. The government talks a lot about crime but it's doing very little. It did promise to confiscate squeegees -- at the same time it was opposing gun control. Mostly, it writes letters to the federal government. That's not being tough on crime. That's being strong on stationery. - --------------------- I no longer have the document to prove this, but I seem to remember a number of years ago that Dalton wanted to establish so called "Gun Free Zones" in major cities, around schools, etc. If this nut becomes the next Premier of Ontario, God help us all... Regards, Dave M Nepean, ON ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:57:33 -0600 (CST) From: "MCNEIL, DAVE" Subject: No gun in school Bill C68 really annoyed me when it was introduced. This article made me *mad*. http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id={DE06E5E3-685B-4751-841C-FAB8B263AADD} NEWS STORY Gun control: Schools ban even the word Sarah Ruttan The Ottawa Citizen The Upper Canada District School Board has removed the word gun from all spelling tests in its schools as a result of a complaint by parents of a Grade 1 student. Every Monday, Chloe Sousa, 7, comes home from Lombardy Public School with a list of 10 words to learn, and each Friday her class is tested on these words. By last week, the class had worked its way through the alphabet to the letter G. Amanda and Mark Sousa, who consider themselves to be pacifists and who are raising their two young children with this governing belief, were shocked when Amanda's spelling list last week included the word gun. "I realize people hunt in this area, but I still don't think that warrants the teaching of this word to my daughter or any other child," said Mrs. Sousa. The Sousas relocated to tiny Lombardy, about an hour west of Ottawa near Smiths Falls, from Kingston, where Mr. Sousa still works, to be closer to family. Mrs. Sousa wrote a letter to her daughter's teacher describing her views on the word gun, her unease with any child learning to spell the word, a few alternatives, and the wish to speak to the teacher about its inclusion on the list. "The word gun is synonymous with death. I'm racking my brain trying to figure out why a seven-year-old would need to learn this word," said Mrs. Sousa, who admits she was hesitant to bring her views forward for fear of backlash from the school toward her daughter, and because some may view her problem with the word gun as another political correctness issue gone too far. "For a split second I considered whether or not I should raise this issue, but I knew I had to stand up for what I believe in. This was not right," she said. "I don't think this is an issue of political correctness. It's an issue of protecting your child from violence. Guns are violent. End of story," said Mrs. Sousa. The Sousas did not hear from the teacher. Then Chloe was sent home later in the week, again with her list, which now came complete with pictures beside each word. "It wasn't a water gun or a toy gun, it was a pistol," said Mr. Sousa. "I was horrified that not only were we ignored, but now my daughter is carrying around a picture of a gun," he said. Mrs. Sousa then decided it was time to call the school to speak to the principal. Not long after she placed the telephone call yesterday, the teacher returned her call and apologized for the word being part of the test, as did Terry Simzer, a public relations specialist for the school board in which the Lombardy Public school belongs. Mr. Simzer explained that the word gun had been in the curriculum for a number of years, but as of yesterday, gun has been removed from the spelling test because of the Sousas' complaint. "I can't say how many years it's been used, but a number of years, yes," said Mr. Simzer, and he defended the word as being a good phonetic word and short vowel word that is easy for young readers to learn. "We do appreciate the sensitivity around the word, especially in these times, and have taken the word from the list because of this parent's complaint," he said. "But children do hear this word every day on the news, particularly about blank registration -- I don't want to say the word so I don't offend anybody," added Mr. Simzer. "We are quite happy that the whole matter has been resolved and the word will no longer be included in our curriculum." Although the Sousas remain disappointed the word was ever included in a Grade 1 spelling test, the family is happy with the outcome. "Even after all of the obstacles I'm happy with the conclusion," said Mrs. Sousa. "I accomplished what I set out to do and that was to have this word removed from my daughter's spelling list." dave.mcneil@bell.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:02:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Fired, or Named.....? Ed Tait wrote: > > "CEO of Firearms Centre fired." > I dearly love the new use of language..... > > "Fired and Dismissal," used to have some meaning, they meant that you had > lost your job and that you would be seeking another, with a new employer. > > Now apparently they simply mean you are being, "named" to a new job, with > the same employer, the Canadian taxpayer..... I guess there needs to be a new adage: "Old bureaucrats never get fired, they just get promoted"... Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:56:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Williams Lake native band sets up own gun licences PUBLICATION: Vancouver Sun DATE: 2003.02.11 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: B1 / Front BYLINE: Brian Morton SOURCE: Vancouver Sun - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Williams Lake native band sets up own gun licences - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A native Indian band in central B.C. plans to start issuing its own firearms "licences" as a protest against the federal gun registry. "We're just trying to show we can look after our own affairs," Chief Ervin Charleyboy of the Williams Lake-area Tsilhqot'in Nation said Monday. "I don't like their legislation. I'm not comfortable with it. It's unconstitutional. And it's so computerized and people know you've got guns and everything. I'm not a fan of computers and all these fancy gadgets they have. "To me, it [the federal law] is an underground communist movement to disarm the public." Williams Lake RCMP Sergeant Merv Pointer said Monday he is not sure what, if anything, police will do about the band's plan, but he said he will discuss it with RCMP headquarters in Vancouver. "It caught us by surprise. I hadn't heard anything about it." The federal department of justice in Ottawa could not be reached for comment on the matter Monday. The Tsilhqot'in Nation says it will begin issuing its own firearms licences Friday and that licences will be sold from the headquarters of what is called the Tsilhqot'in National Government office in Williams Lake. Licences will be issued to band members who live on or are on the band lists of the six reserves in the area. The band has not yet decided how much it will charge to buy a licence, only that it will consider them valid. Although he had no other details about the plan, Charleyboy said the band can do a better job than the federal government. "First of all, we know our people better than everybody else. We know who the bad ones are and the good ones and who are law-abiding. We've got to be careful who we issue these licences to." Charleyboy said the band expects to sell up to 4,000 licences. He also said they'd consider selling licences to non-natives in the area who are also uncomfortable with the gun legislation. Charleyboy said he is not afraid of possible legal action against the band. "It's under [our] authority. I'm not scared. I'm willing to fight this." He also said he has not informed the RCMP of the band's plans. "They don't need to know. It's within our own nation." Justice Minister Martin Cauchon said recently the federal firearms registry is "there to stay" despite fierce opposition from gun owners and provincial demands to scrap the system or at least suspend it until audits of ballooning coasts are completed. He said the government intends to use the registry to instil a new gun culture in Canada. However, Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper said his party would not only discard the registry if it wins power but also destroy information now contained in the system on firearms owned by nearly two million Canadians. Eight provincial governments have called for suspension of the firearms registry following federal auditor-general Sheila Fraser's disclosure in December that the program will have cost $1 billion by 2005. At least two gun owners have deliberately provoked police charges to appeal the law in court, while others have flouted the law but not been charged by police. The law providing for the registry, the Canadian Firearms Act, took effect in 1998, but its licensing and registration provisions have been introduced in stages. Several hundred thousand gun owners, perhaps more than one million, are believed to be avoiding registration. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:57:44 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Cambridge woman 'frantic' during 911 call, court hears PUBLICATION: The Record (Waterloo Region) DATE: 2003.02.11 SECTION: Local PAGE: B5 SOURCE: RECORD STAFF BYLINE: DIANNE WOOD DATELINE: KITCHENER - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cambridge woman 'frantic' during 911 call, court hears - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Cambridge woman was frantic when she called police for help 1 1/2 years ago, a court heard yesterday. Raymond Haffner, 60, of Cambridge is on trial for threatening to kill the woman, pointing a firearm at her and assaulting her. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges in Superior Court. One of the charges relates to an incident on July 19, 2001, when Haffner allegedly threatened to kill Atkinson, 41. The couple was living then at 16 Norman Lane in Cambridge. Atkinson called 911 at about 3:30 a.m. saying she was afraid of Haffner who kept a weapon in the house. She called on a cellphone from her bedroom after pushing a dresser against her door. Bev Walker, a complaint handler with Waterloo regional police, took the call. She typed, "She's frantic," in her message that was sent automatically to a dispatcher to pass along to police. Atkinson said she didn't know if Haffner had a gun in his hand. Officers arrived at the house and pounded on the door, but no one answered. They kicked in the door, went in and saw Atkinson at the top of the stairway. They got her out, then emergency response officers arrived and surrounded the house. They had been told a male, possibly armed, was inside. Despite repeated calls to Haffner to come out or pick up the phone, they got no response. They finally entered the house at 8:24 a.m. As they were checking rooms and closets, Haffner came out of a closed bedroom on the main floor, court heard. He looked as if he had just put on his clothes. Const. Robert Sauve found a rifle in a case on a closet shelf in the bedroom Haffner had been in. It had a trigger lock on and was not loaded. When police talked to Atkinson, she said in sometime between May and July 2000 while staying together at a hotel she had awakened to find a jealous Haffner pointing a gun at her head. Haffner told her not to struggle, Crown prosecutor Theresa Donnelly said in her opening statement. Haffner then hit her over the head. The trial has not heard from Atkinson because she wasn't in court. After an officer found Atkinson at her house she said she forgot, and she also had several illnesses. It's hoped she will appear today or tomorrow. The trial continues today. dwood@therecord.com ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #752 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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