From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #774 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, February 14 2003 Volume 05 : Number 774 In this issue: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #773 ARTICLE: Criticism concerns B.C.'s top judge ARTICLE: Crown appealing sentence of racers ARTICLE: 'Bait cars' cut thefts, police say Re: Purse Guns LETTER: Gun ban just silly Re: Propaganda Producers Re: One Too Many Donuts ? Heads up... Re: Elk Returning to Lower Mainland Liar, liar, pants on fire... Rumsfeld, France and deer hunting Re: Police State ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:05:02 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #773 Hi: I just read a quote by Donald Rumsfeld our Defense Secretary: "GOING TO WAR WITHOUT FRANCE IS LIKE GOING DEER HUNTING WITHOUT YOUR ACCORDIAN." - - DONALD RUMSFELD Don't you love it!! Mike H. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:09:55 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Criticism concerns B.C.'s top judge http://www.canada.com/vancouver/news/story.asp?id=F2B33E4D-2BE4-4B8A-BB7C-0ACE46CC911C Criticism concerns B.C.'s top judge Amy O'Brian Vancouver Sun Thursday, February 13, 2003 The chief judge of B.C.'s provincial court says there is "great concern" about the public's perception of the judiciary. Chief Judge Carol Baird Ellan said Wednesday she is considering a public consultation process to improve the delivery of justice and change the complaint and appointment processes within the provincial court system. "Obviously, the judiciary is concerned," she said. "We have some concerns about suggestions that there is an absence of accountability or there's a cloak of secrecy." A former Prince George judge resigned from the bench last October after the RCMP announced an investigation into allegations of criminal misconduct against the judge. Media have identified the judge as David W. Ramsay and report that the offences relate to young women in the sex trade. Also, two recent sentences issued by B.C. judges have sparked outcry from the public. Two street racers convicted in the death of Vancouver resident Irene Thorpe were each given two-year conditional sentences last week, allowing them to work and attend school while they live with their parents. And, on Monday, B.C. Chief Justice Donald Brenner sentenced Inderjit Singh Reyat to five years in prison for his involvement in the Air India bombing, in which 329 people died. Baird Ellan said she hasn't yet determined what form the public consultation will take, but said it will likely involve community meetings and an invitation for public comment on the provincial courts Web site. "We will do some public consultation as to the delivery of justice in the province by this court, at this level, and how that might be improved," she said. Invitations for comment will not extend to criticisms of individual sentences, however. Baird Ellan's office issued a statement Wednesday regarding the criminal investigation of the former provincial court judge in Prince George. In it, Baird Ellan said neither she nor other members of the judiciary were aware of the investigation until July 2002. "As soon as the chief judge was able to confirm the existence of the criminal investigation, the judge was removed from his judicial duties. His last sitting day was July 22, 2002," the statement said. The suspected judge resigned Oct. 9, 2002. No charges have been laid against him and Baird Ellan stressed the importance of presuming his innocence until he is proven guilty. © Copyright 2003 Vancouver Sun Copyright © 2003 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:10:29 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Crown appealing sentence of racers http://www.canada.com/vancouver/news/story.asp?id=0187A190-C746-4F49-B4F9-E7E600FD2463 Crown appealing sentence of racers The Crown says jail terms would be more appropriate The Province Thursday, February 13, 2003 (Irene) Thorpe The Attorney-General's Ministry yesterday announced the Crown is appealing the sentences handed to two Vancouver men who were found guilty of criminal negligence causing death while street racing on Southwest Marine Drive in November 2000. Bahadur Singh Bhalru, now 24, and Sukhvir Singh Khosa, now 21, each received conditional sentences of two years less a day. Each man must comply with strict conditions, which include house arrest. The judge also imposed a three-year period of probation with an 8 p.m.-to-7 a.m. curfew. Neither man is allowed to drive for the entire five years. "The Crown's position . . . is that the sentences imposed are demonstrably unfit, having regard to the circumstances of the offence, and that a term of imprisonment in the penitentiary is the appropriate sentence for each offender," said a ministry statement. Khosa was speeding at about 120 km/h when he lost control of his Camaro Z28 and slammed into Irene Thorpe, 51, killing her. The appeal is scheduled to be heard on May 8. © Copyright 2003 The Province Copyright © 2003 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:15:10 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: 'Bait cars' cut thefts, police say http://www.canada.com/vancouver/news/story.asp?id=A8613994-FBD3-459F-B176-6F9B627E7014 'Bait cars' cut thefts, police say ICBC part of pioneering film-and-follow scheme Brian Morton Vancouver Sun Thursday, February 13, 2003 Eye-catching ads are part of ICBC's campaign against auto theft. An innovative anti-crime program aimed at trapping car thieves is paying off, Vancouver police report. "Clearly, we're making a difference," Inspector Robert Taylor said Wednesday of the bait-car program, which is being credited with a 30-per-cent drop in auto thefts in Vancouver in the fourth quarter of 2002. "We are still in the process of evaluating the results, but the large drop in auto crime in Vancouver is consistent with the outcomes we've seen from U.S. jurisdictions that launched similar bait-car programs." The program, a collaboration between Vancouver police, the Insurance Corp. of B.C. and E-Comm [the Lower Mainland's emergency communications system], was launched Sept. 25, 2002, to target the high number of vehicles being stolen in Vancouver. Bait cars, which are indistinguishable from privately owned cars, are left in high-crime areas. When someone breaks in, an automatic system -- worth about $1,500 -- videotapes the thieves and notifies E-Comm, which then tracks the location of the vehicle and informs the police of its whereabouts. The thief is then arrested and charged. The pilot program is now about half-way through its first year. ICBC statistics show a 30-per-cent reduction in auto theft claims for the fourth quarter of 2002. Total theft claims were 1,401 in this period in 2001, compared to 979 in 2002 -- a decrease of 422. Vancouver Police auto theft statistics, which include autos from outside B.C. and autos insured by private insurance companies, bear out the ICBC numbers. The police statistics show a drop from 1,804 auto thefts in the fourth quarter of 2001 to 1,400 in the fourth quarter of 2002, after the introduction of the program. "That means about 400 families in Vancouver had a better Christmas because they didn't go through the anxiety of having their car stolen," added Taylor. He said he could not think of any other reason the numbers would drop so dramatically. Taylor believes the program is causing a lot of anxiety among auto thieves and that word is getting around. "Advertising [the program] creates uncertainty and deterrence." Taylor also said that everyone who has been arrested in the program has so far pleaded guilty. "The videotape evidence is very strong." However, he refused to release details on how many people have been arrested, saying police are worried that with that knowledge criminals would calculate the odds of getting arrested. "We may change [that] strategy," he added. Taylor said bait cars are broken into and stolen like any other car. "One had the window pulled open and then they broke and forced the ignition. Another one we left the keys in and it was unlocked. They're all different. It's pretty reflective of the typical car break-ins." He recalled one incident in which a thief stole a bait car in East Vancouver, drove it to the West End and broke into another vehicle. He then stole items from the second vehicle and transferred them to the bait car just as police arrived. "He was arrested and charged," said Taylor. "He immediately plead guilty. We had the tape of the whole thing. That was kind of a nice one." Dennis St. Aubin, an ICBC auto crime expert, said the $700,000 program may be expanded to other parts of the Lower Mainland, but not in the immediate future. "At the present time, we're looking at it. But we're waiting to see all the data." St. Aubin also said that auto theft is generally up throughout B.C., so the Vancouver figures "buck the trend." He said that each stolen vehicle costs ICBC about $4,000, so about $1.6 million was saved by Vancouver's lower theft rate. "If there's a decrease in the rate of stolen cars, then in theory the savings passed on to the citizens more than covers the cost of the program," added Taylor. "In theory, it's paid for itself in three months." St. Aubin said the program is particularly effective at discouraging joy-riders. Those thieves -- often young -- who steal a car for fun or short-term transportation, might be discouraged if they knew there was a chance of being videotaped. St. Aubin said that rather than displace car theft from one area to another, jurisdictions that have instituted similar programs saw the car-theft rate in surrounding jurisdictions drop as well. Meanwhile, ICBC's Lower Mainland vice-president Lidi Holler also announced Wednesday a new ICBC initiative to further reduce auto crime in Vancouver. She said a number of downtown businesses, in partnership with ICBC and Vancouver police are funding a downtown auto crime bicycle squad. Under the program, private security personnel will patrol the downtown core and contact police if they see any suspicious or criminal activity. © Copyright 2003 Vancouver Sun Copyright © 2003 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:16:08 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Purse Guns In a message dated 2/14/2003 8:44:53 AM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > Dirty Harry is now outgunned: Smith & Wesson has introduced its biggest > handgun ever, a .50-calibre Magnum. > > The five-shot revolver with an 81/2-inch barrel weighs about 41/2 pounds -- > roughly a pound more than the .44 Magnum wielded by Clint Eastwood in the > Dirty Harry movies. > > The company said the new .50-calibre cartridge produces nearly three times > the muzzle energy of the .44 -- or enough stopping power to bring down a > charging bear. > > The gun sells for about $989 US. I find that really funny, - Because back in the Mid-1980's I approched Smith &Wesson with an idea for a .58 Calibre Magnum . I spoke with Roy Jinks on the phone and he stated that because of re-tooling costs,etc -that they wouldn't be able to produce them for under $5,000.00 U.S. per unit and the minimum production run they would be willing to handle is 5,000 unit runs. Now I don't know anybody who would be willing to pay $5,000 U.S. for a Revolver !! At the time- the 454 Casull was the Bigest Beast on the market- and I told him that this .58 Magnum would make the 454 look like a purse gun ballistic ally. !! (grin) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:25:03 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: LETTER: Gun ban just silly http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/letters/story.asp?id={9D719978-6995-419D-86F9-3DC31BBEC110} Gun ban just silly The Gazette Letter to the Editor Friday, February 14, 2003 I agree that banning the word "gun" from Grade 1 spelling tests is ludicrous and useless (Editorial, Feb. 12 "Annie, get your gum"). I am a college student and can therefore attest that children learn far more outside of school than they do inside. This is especially true of a generation of kids raised on TV. There is no way to avoid learning about guns, violence and death. What matters is the source of information. How many times have we read about a child who shoots a family member, because his source was TV and video games where everyone can survive a bullet, unless they are evil henchmen, and where most people have multiple lives? Children can't be shielded from death, unless they are lied to. Many grade-schoolers have lost a close relative or beloved pet. I taught myself to read before kindergarten and read many stories involving death before reaching Grade 1. One thing is for sure; I certainly knew the word "gun." The knowledge of guns and death has not made me a violent person; in fact, I detest guns and think poorly of private citizens who own them. Banning the word "gun" is just plain silly. Kevin Chambers Beaconsfield © Copyright 2003 Montreal Gazette Copyright © 2003 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:41:47 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: Propaganda Producers In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:46:59 PM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: > Here, as ever, Michael Moore just doesn't seem to know what he thinks. When > pressed, in fact, he isn't even sure he actually has a point. Appearing on > CNN's > Moneyline last spring, host Lou Dobbs asked him about the inaccuracies in > Stupid > White Men. "How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?" Moore responded. > > Satire is not an excuse for dissembling. Great satirists like Jonathan > Swift and > Mark Twain used hyperbole as a form of social criticism. Michael Moore, > however, > uses lies, distortions, and nonsensical arguments to mask cheap attacks and > promote his own political agenda. > > Take him seriously at your own risk. Moore is nothing more than a Modern Joseph Goebbels Propaganda meister. Using the power of media to spread his propaganda lies/personal leftist antigun beliefs,KNOWING his peers will feverishly support him even though his films stink. Yeah,they'll do everything in their power to see his films get high acclaim ,awards,and exposure...but again even Micheal Beselleises (I think that's how you spell his last name) recieved exposure and high acclaim by his peers- until he was exposed as a fraud (or at least his research was) ....Moore will enjoy the same eventual fate as Micheal it's just a matter of time....all good things come to those who try to decieve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:58:48 -0600 (CST) From: Vulcun1isback@aol.com Subject: Re: One Too Many Donuts ? In a message dated 2/14/2003 8:56:21 PM Central Standard Time, owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca writes: My wife just told me a funny story that she heard on a local radio station today. Apparently an 85 year old man and his wife ? ...Were in having a bit of an early Valentines day celebration you could say near some local school -The School Principal apparently was a little disgusted at the display and called City Police. When the 85 year old male saw Police arriving-he fled on foot, in his valentine days suit (so to speak) the police gave chase, -but apparently couldn't catch the swift 85 year old ( so much for the Popat.....-Police Officer Physical abilities test New recruits must pass) This is what happens when Tim Hortons becomes a regular pit stop on your beat I guess huh ? ..How would you love to be one of those cops-when you have to report for work the next day ? ( Personally, I wouldn't bother showing up- and just send in my shield and gun via courier !! ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:00:09 -0600 (CST) From: The Jordan's Subject: Heads up... People behind closed doors continue to debate and influence the Firearms Act. A 'friend' has just passed this tidbit on to me. It's premature to take to the press yet, (although the speaker is extremely reliable and has always been accurate), but I thought it might be worth a heads up. Linda = = = = = During discussions about "gun control", the powers that be laid a surprise on us, in that one suggestion or threat is to use "regulation changes" to demand a transfer permit be obtained each time any firearm is moved, and they include going hunting, in fact, each and every time the registered firearm is moved from the address shown on the registration permit. Such a system is already in place for handguns. Idle threat? Who knows, but a brilliant negotiating tactic on their part, to show they have the power. Changes such as these do not have to go before parliament, just the minister of the day can do it. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:47:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Re: Elk Returning to Lower Mainland A few years back, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation approached the = Nicola Valley in the Thompson Nicola Regional District south of Kamloops = with a proposal to establish an elk population in the area. The proposal was flatly rejected by the beef growers who thought that = they would bring diseases and compete with their beef for forage on = sparse grasslands and Crown Land grazing rights. The natives were all for it and with nothing to lose couldn't wait to = have another species available for aboriginal "subsistence" hunting. The proposal never got off the ground. I find it somewhat amusing that lower mainlanders are quite behind the = idea of re-establishing an elk population on ever decreasing green belt = areas in a highly urbanized environment. This will undoubtedly change when elk start to infringe on golf courses, = berry farms, market gardens and become unwitting 'speed bumps' for = yuppie-mobile SUV's. Culling of these animals will arouse the ire of PETA and other animal = rightists just as it does when noises are made about thinning out the = Canada Goose population whose droppings have become a health concern. Todd Birch Merritt,BC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:48:49 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: Liar, liar, pants on fire... "Jim Hinter" wrote: > Wow! > > He listened. > > That was a lot of work, well worth it. Am I the only one who remembered Pinnochio Jim's claims that he doesn't have anything to do with the Canadian Firearm's Digest anymore? But here he is... and someplace, somewhere, a village is missing its' idiot. "Look, look everybody... Jimmy got noticed! Aren't I great!" Jimmy got noticed all right. When Hinter is around, the stench of corruption cannot be missed: Where's that court ordered audit that you're about ten months overdue on, Pinnochio? Where's all the billboards that you accepted about $10,000 in donations to have built - and are still soliciting money for? Where did that money go? The word is you're claiming LUFA's billboards were funded by the NFA. Where's the election the bylaws demand and the court ordered nearly a year ago, you crooked snake? Where did that donated rifle disappear to that was handed over to you to be auctioned off, you shyster? Where did the money from the Ted Nugent event disappear to once the envelope it was in was handed over to you, weasel boy? Where did all that money disappear to that you transferred over to yourself at Shop NFA each month, Fagan? How come you lecture the federal government on fairness, democracy, and law when you act like a banana republic tyrant, strangle free speech and elections, and find it totally impossible to keep your grubby paws out of the NFA till as you pay yourself a salary and spend NFA members' dues on a vehicle for yourself? Why do you continue to pose as the President of the NFA when you have no more legitimate claim on the position than Wendy Cukier? AT LEAST SHE DOESN'T CREEP AROUND AND HIDE OUT OF SIGHT. What rock are you and your master hiding under while LUFA and determined individual citizens are doing all the real work of resisting this legislation? One last question... how much did the Liberal government pay you or promise you and Dave Tomlinson to betray the firearms owners of Canada? Thirty pieces of silver? Shameless traitor. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:50:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: Rumsfeld, France and deer hunting Mike - > "GOING TO WAR WITHOUT FRANCE IS LIKE GOING DEER HUNTING WITHOUT YOUR ACCORDIAN." > > - DONALD RUMSFELD > Don't you love it!! Mike H. My opinion only: France has a long history of warfare - including assisting the rebellious colonies when Britain was trying to control them. France made a gift of the Statue of Liberty to the U.S. in 1886. In World War I, many Americans joined up to serve as ambulance drivers and stretcher bearers in the French sector of the Western Front, and Eddy Rickenbacker's fighter squadron was known as the Lafayette Escadrille, in honor of the assistance given to the upstart colonies. France and the U.S. have a relationship going back over hundreds of years, and for Rumsfeld to make these comments is a huge insult to the French. While there is no requirement for nations to stay allies - or enemies - the level of scorn that the Americans are treating all the other nations of the world will come back to haunt them. As Hitler and Napoleon both found out: a nation with 5% of the world's population will not control the world for long if they have lost the good will of most of the other nations. I'm saddened and dispirited over what I see as a fatally flawed campaign to demonize some tin-pot dictator in a country that is smaller than Utah and Nevada combined, with a population of only 24 million. Much of the world is aghast at the strong-arm tactics that the U.S. is using - and very aware that they could be next. This will prompt anit-American alliances that I see growing over the next decades, as the U.S. grows more and more dependent on imported fuels. We are witnessing the start of the decline in Pax Americana. My only hope is that it takes a long time, as the chaos that ensues when the world's major power base shifts generally make the history books as a bad time for the average Joe and Jane. Side note, regarding the Statue of Liberty: The sonnet inside the pedestal was written by Emma Lazarus, and shows how things have changed in the U.S. since these words were written. "The New Colossus" Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Jim Szpajcher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:51:37 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: Police State Rae Baker wrote: > As I listen, and read and see, I have noticed this one heading all too > often. > > POLICE RAID. RCMP RAID. > > When did we become a police state?, Ihe thing that I have noticed about When did we become a nation filled with radical gun nuts? You probably started noticing the media writing ARSENAL... ARSENAL about the same time. The same media that chose the words "Police raid" to describe police also chose the word "Arsenal" to describe the firearms owned by private citizens. The press does it to sell newspapers. "If it bleeds it leads!" And I'm not about to crawl into bed with the media because they support my biases one day and kick me in the crotch the next... whatever is selling that day. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #774 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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