From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #780 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, February 16 2003 Volume 05 : Number 780 In this issue: [Fwd: Fw: Liberal or Alliance] COLUMN: Shania Twain for Prime Minister 5 years Re: RFC Ottawa Letter: "Probing deeper into the "gun" spelling ban" Re: legislation on "inexplosive ammunition components" - Bill C-17 Re: ARTICLE: Senators with little to do decide to take vacation Re: RFC Ottawa Letter: "Probing deeper into the "gun" spelling ban" Re: legislation on "inexplosive ammunition components" - Bill C-17 Re: legislation on "inexplosive ammunition components" - Bill C-17 ARTICLE: Soldier seeks return of firearms ARTICLE: Latest gunfire drug-related LETTER: Benefits outweigh the French and accordians or the armchair Canucks and accordians #779 Ethnic Military Jokes & Armchair Military Quarterbacking Re: the French and accordians or the armchair Canucks and accordians ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:10:13 -0600 (CST) From: Rae Baker Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Liberal or Alliance] I was traveling between Toronto and Ajax the other day when a tire blew out. Checking my spare, I found that it too was flat. My only option was to flag down a passing motorist and get a ride to the next town. The first vehicle to stop was an old man in a van. He yelled out the window, "Need a lift?" "Yes, I sure do," I replied. You Liberal or Alliance," asked the old man. "Alliance," I replied. "Well, you can just go to Hell," yelled the old man as he sped off. Another guy stopped, rolled down the window, and asked me the same question. Again, I gave the same answer, "Alliance." The driver gave me the finger and drove off. I thought it over and decided that maybe I should change my strategy, since this area seemed to be overly political and there appeared to be few Alliance members. The next car to stop was a red convertible driven by a beautiful blonde. She smiled seductively and asked if I was a Liberal or Alliance. Liberal" I shouted. "Hop in!" replied the blonde. Driving down the road, I couldn't help but stare at the gorgeous woman in the seat next to me,the wind blowing through her hair, perfect breasts, and a short skirt that continued to ride higher and higher up her thighs. Finally, I yelled, "Please stop the car." She immediately slammed on the brakes and as soon as the car stopped, I jumped out. "What's the matter?" she asked."I can't take it anymore," I replied. "I've only been a Liberal for five minutes and already, I want to screw somebody". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:29:27 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: COLUMN: Shania Twain for Prime Minister Just an excerpt of Elizabeth Nickson's column: http://www.nationalpost.com/utilities/story.html?id={74B7692B-9B48-4B7B-961E-C08273459C8A} Hey let's elect Shania prime minister and move Jean Chrétien to a castle in Switzerland. In 10 years, Canada would be able to hold up her head again, an adult in the family of nations, instead of a Europeanized, bleating, confused, weakling -- and wouldn't that be so incredibly wonderful? enickson@nationalpost.com © Copyright 2003 National Post ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:29:58 -0600 (CST) From: Rae Baker Subject: 5 years Is there any wonder that punishment is not in keeping with the offence. 5 years for likking a plane full of people. Me thinks that you get more than that for selling drugs.Shame on the system and it's applicators. This is why crime is getting larger,and more prevelant. Same thinking is what we have in Bill bill C68, or is it 86 Rae Burlington,Onta Key West Fl. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:58:27 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: RFC Ottawa Letter: "Probing deeper into the "gun" spelling ban" Al, The fourth option: Take legal action. The gun club (plaintiff) could sue the school board (defendant) seeking: 1) Prompt return of all equipment and property; 2) Actual damages in the form of real monies lost and compensation for disruption of activities; 3) Punitive damages in the form of a restraining order against the Board, prohibiting it from further prejudicial conduct, and; 4) Immediate resumption of all shooting activities as before the Board stepped in. The case could revolve on the bogus concern over lead toxicity, placing the onus on thje Board to prove such concerns were valid. They would then have to come up with an actual elevated blood lead level in one of the range staff or users. They will of course be unable to do this. Our days of 'playing nice' are over! - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:59:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Schrader" Subject: Re: legislation on "inexplosive ammunition components" - Bill C-17 Beats me, but why are they putting "inexplosive components" into the "Explosives Act"? Unless it's being used to choke off firearms ownership by the backdoor. Seriously, does anybody have an inkling on how this would really affect any reloaders ? The government is giving us a license to have and to hold in trust for it all kinds of firearms, the provincial governments are still selling hunting licenses by the diminished thousands and then they are trying to choke off the ammo to go hunting ? Unless, as was said, it will be another license and another bureaucracy. We need the condensed and simplified facts of this additional lunacy in order to approach our M.P.s in a factual and forceful manner. Hoping that somebody with legal training will be able to provide a short and concise message to the M.P.'s ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:00:24 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Senators with little to do decide to take vacation Bruce Mills wrote: > When told the Senate had decided to shut down for a week, Mr. Boudria blamed the > Canadian Alliance. The Opposition has been filibustering legislation in protest > of the government's decision not to allow all bills from backbench MPs to be > voted on. I would imagine that this is the reason why two CA MPs moved to amend the motion that Bill C-10 be considered as one Bill and not C-10A and C-10B. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:00:54 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: RFC Ottawa Letter: "Probing deeper into the "gun" spelling ban" Al Dorans wrote: > To its credit, the Upper Canada District School Board had offered, for 2 > decades, a highly popular program of .22 rifle marksmanship/safety skills at the > Smith Falls District Collegiate Institute. In fact, female teenagers from these > classes gained international recognition as a world class scoring team that > marked targets for rifle competitions at the Connaught Rifle Ranges in Ottawa. > > However, there may be more to this picture than meets the eye. > > Years ago, local newspapers reported the similar banning of this excellent > shooting program at SFDCI, due to objections from a strident few. Lead > pollution was given as the dubious reason, although this was never > substantiated. A local poll revealed 200+ citizens fully supported the shooting > program. > > Meanwhile, equipment owned exclusively by the gun club was shipped by the Board > to a toxic waste company that promptly returned the equipment, unexamined, to > the Board. > > Presently, the shooting club cannot retrieve its equipment without signing a > waiver of impossible conditions. Therefore, is "recreational cleansing" also > taking place at the UCDSB? > > Here are 3 constructive solutions to the problem: > > 1. Re-instate the SFDCI shooting program and return the equipment. > 2. Use .22 target, non-lead, rim-fire cartridges which are being manufactured. > 3. Ed Martin, V.P. Shooting Federation Of Canada advises the introduction of > Airgun Shooting which is currently held safely in school gymnasiums throughout > Canada. The Airgun Grand Prix of North America, took place a week ago in the > grand ballroom of one of Toronto's largest hotels. Great research, Al, and a great letter, too! Wee need to make the bastards sit up and take notice. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:13:05 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: legislation on "inexplosive ammunition components" - Bill C-17 Karl Schrader wrote: > Beats me, but why are they putting "inexplosive components" into the > "Explosives Act"? http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/government/c-42/c-42_1/90173ee.html Part 5 amends the Explosives Act to implement the Organization of American States Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials as it relates to explosives and ammunition. It prohibits the illicit manufacturing of explosives, and illicit trafficking in explosives and components of ammunition. It allows for increased control over the importation, exportation, transportation through Canada, acquisition, possession and sale of explosives and certain components of explosives, and provides increased penalties for certain offences. The problem is is that the Federal Liberal Government only "implements by statute" such "treaties" as it sees fit to do so; in other words, ones that advance their agenda of stripping us of our rights. For an example of how this works see: http://www.hwcn.org/~aj233/rights.html > Unless it's being used to choke off firearms ownership by the backdoor. > > Seriously, does anybody have an inkling on how this would really affect any > reloaders ? No doubt someone has a quotation of Idle Annie saying that this will have minimal impact on the every day usage by firearms owners... > The government is giving us a license to have and to hold in trust for it > all kinds of firearms, the provincial governments are still selling hunting > licenses by the diminished thousands and then they are trying to choke off > the ammo to go hunting ? > > Unless, as was said, it will be another license and another bureaucracy. Probably both - first, require even *more* red tape and fees to participate in your chosen passtime, and then make the red tape and fees more and more difficult to satisfy, "wringing out" more and more people from the shooting sports. > We need the condensed and simplified facts of this additional lunacy in > order to approach our M.P.s in a factual and forceful manner. > > Hoping that somebody with legal training will be able to provide a short and > concise message to the M.P.'s Seeing as how there don't seem to be an of the regulation that the law provides for in existence yet, we don't really know what the requirments of the law will be, or who, exactly, they will affect. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:10:45 -0600 (CST) From: "John Poulin" Subject: Re: legislation on "inexplosive ammunition components" - Bill C-17 On Sunday, February 16, 2003 09:59 EST, Karl Schrader wrote: > Beats me, but why are they putting "inexplosive components" into the > "Explosives Act"? Well, the government in their infinite wisdom have deduced that "criminals, including you and me" should be regulated thoroughly. The fact that criminals taking up the pastime of reloading ammo is deplorable. You and I should never have a free pass to circumvent the PAL only, buy ammo C-68 deal. Only evil humans would consider fabricating their own ammunition. Remember, it's not about reducing crime or even public safety. It's about process. Creating a never ending bureaucracy which appears to do things. It keeps many people employed whose job is to enter data continually into computers. I can see where that is much more pleasant than actually fighting crime. I know many times that I'd rather be sitting here on the lazy boy reading emails than getting off my ass and acutally accomplishing something. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:18:08 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Soldier seeks return of firearms http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1035777806585&call_pageid=968332188774 Feb. 15, 2003. 01:00 AM Soldier seeks return of firearms Licence revoked after `flashback' incident Court told about stress of Bosnia mission ROBERTA AVERY SPECIAL TO THE STAR OWEN SOUND—An elite Canadian Forces sniper who says he mistook Owen Sound police officers for Serbian forces during a flashback incident related to post-traumatic stress disorder told a court yesterday he wants his firearms licence reinstated and his guns returned. Warrant Officer James Fischer, 39, told Justice Julia Morneau at a hearing to consider his request that he began to develop the disorder following a peacekeeping mission to Bosnia in 1993. He said Canadian forces on United Nations missions were given only minimal briefings on what to expect when they arrived. "It was like walking into hell, it was total chaos ... the stench of death was unbelievable," said Fischer, a 22-year-veteran who served with the former Canadian Airborne Regiment. "We didn't know who was who in the zoo." Fischer said he witnessed friends being shot to death and a close friend die when a tank rolled on top of him. He returned to Canada a changed man. After a second tour in Bosnia in 1999, Fischer was posted to the Canadian Forces Area Training Centre at Meaford where he taught recruits how to use weapons including rifles and rocket launchers. Fischer, a keen outdoorsman, also had his own collection of hunting rifles and guns he used for target practice. The court was told he took medical leave in the summer of 2001. He knew he needed help, Fischer said, but fearing the lack of confidentiality on a small base such as Meaford, he contacted doctors at CFB Borden. By December of that year he was drinking heavily and that's what he believes caused the events of Dec. 13, 2001 when he had a flashback incident at his Owen Sound home. Fischer, who remains on medical leave and has put in a request to be pensioned off, told the court he had no memory of what happened that day. He awoke the next day in hospital "ashamed and embarrassed" when he heard what had happened, he said. Crown attorney Clayton Conlan said in an interview that Fischer, believing he was in Bosnia, dressed in army fatigues and began assembling rifles, alarming his wife Wendy who called 911. When Owen Sound police arrived, Fischer was convinced they were Serbian forces, but by playing along with him, police persuaded him to go peacefully to the Grey Bruce Health Services, said Conlan. The incident prompted a provincial firearms officer to investigate and ultimately revoke Fischer's firearms licence. Police seized all his weapons. Under cross-examination by Conlan, Fischer disputed a report by psychiatrist Dr. Anne Labonte who described him as having "violent tendencies due to being frightened." The hearing continues April 2 when Fischer's wife and Labonte are expected to testify. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:19:27 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: ARTICLE: Latest gunfire drug-related http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-02-16-0010.html >From Calgary Sun Sunday, February 16, 2003 Latest gunfire drug-related Police say recent Deerfoot, North Hill mall shootings didn't involve gangs By MICHELLE MARK, CALGARY SUN Gunfire on Calgary streets is not just for gangs anymore. Police have ruled Calgary's two latest shootings -- one Friday on Deerfoot Tr. and another at North Hill mall earlier this month -- as drug-related and not involving gangs, opening fears as to who is shooting up our streets. "I don't think law-abiding citizens have anything to be concerned about," said police Insp. Rene Bailly. "But if you're in the illegitimate business of either buying or selling drugs, then you should be concerned -- it's a dangerous business." As the Calgary Police Service's newly formed Gang Task Force cleans up streets of gang activity, more violence is erupting within the drug trade. "A major concern is when you have shots fired and it's spilling out onto the street," said Bailly, reassuring Calgarians they are safe. "Gunplay in this city is still a rare event," Bailly said. "We're talking a city of a million people and we don't often get it. "We get a lot of stabbings in this city that are drug-related, but it's rare to see guns involved." Bailly also said, while not directly connected, recent shootings within Calgary's drug trade is likely an offshoot of gang activity. Police say the increased prevalence of shooting games and violent movies has an effect on how some people view guns. "Movies certainly glamourize the whole lifestyle," Bailly said, adding police dread the release of movies hyperaction flicks such as XXX and The Fast and the Furious. "The movies have a huge impact on the image of this city." In Friday's incident, a man southbound on Deerfoot Tr., near Southland Dr., called police on his cellphone, saying three people in a Honda Accord flashed a handgun. As he alerted police, the gun went off, just before both cars turned onto Hwy. 22X. Police apprehended the suspects moments later as the Accord stopped for a red light at Chaparral Blvd. Police then retrieved the gun from the suspects' vehicle. Three men were arrested and police laid 21 charges against Tafarian Dixon, 20, Horace Pennant, 25, and Ian Bullens, 20. Bullens was also charged with one count of possession of cocaine for the purpose of trafficking. Earlier this month, shots were fired in the parking lot of North Hill Shopping Centre, 1616 14 Ave. N.W. -- in what police called a marijuana buy gone wrong -- leaving a 24-year-old male with five gunshot wounds. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:43:13 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: LETTER: Benefits outweigh http://www.mississauga.com/mi/opinion/letter/v-printmississauga/story/886312p-1053231c.html THE MISSISSAUGA NEWS Letter to the Editor Benefits outweigh Dear Editor: The Mississauga News Feb 12, 2003 John Evers, in his defence of private firearm ownership (Feb. 1-2 edition), mockingly proposes a further need to ban newspapers, books and a free press because, he argues, they could be deemed dangerous as well. This is an old and flawed debating tactic which is mistaken in two ways. First, banning guns needn't be linked to the banning of anything else. It is an independent issue to be evaluated on its own merits. Second, any ban or not-ban decision has to be based on a risk-benefit analysis. Conveniently overlooked by Mr. Evers is the fact that books, newspapers and freedom of the press have enormously significant benefits to offset any alleged risks. What indispensable positive attributes arise from private firearm ownership? Ban guns and so what? The benefits to society of a ban on private firearm ownership would easily outweigh the collective emotional setbacks to gun owners. Having said all this, far tougher than actually banning guns would be finding a way to force our wimpy, ungovernable court system to actually impose stiff penalties on criminals who import, possess or use guns. Kevin Duffy Mississauga ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:52:11 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Gingrich Subject: the French and accordians or the armchair Canucks and accordians #779 Dear Mr. IP "Then it will be up to us, gun-owners and others to liberate the country by guiding guerilla warfare. Cauchon will denounce us because our guns are not registered." We have already lost our freedoms under our currant dictator. Where are all the 7 million brave gun owners and others now? All we need from them is peaceful active civil disobedience. They do not need to even risk using their firearms only losing their firearms. Send me their names and addresses for volunteering into a peaceful "army" for the return of their freedoms. This is not a hypothetical situation this is for real. Now, right now, is your chance to "liberate the country". Where are you? What have you been doing? What are your testosterone levels at these days? When will you fight? The some of the freedoms lost under the Canadian federal tyrants include: the right to liberty, the right to security of person, the right to procedural fairness, the right against unreasonable search and seizure, the right to privacy, the right to be presumed innocent, the right against arbitrary detention, the right to counsel upon arrest or detention, the right to freedom of expression, the right to bear arms, the right to property, equality rights, and in the case of Eduardo Hudson and Jim Turnbull, freedom of mobility, freedom of association, and freedom of speech. If losing these freedoms to our own Canadian dictator do not calcify your backbone into one angry fighting (peacefully) Canuck, I would love to know what would? What would do that?? "BTW, every honour to the Americans , but in many instances they were "pussies" both politically and militarily." Perhaps before we call nasty names to others we (7 million gun owners) Canadians should look into the mirror and take a really good look at ourselves. We can remedy the problem by standing up, paying the price for freedom, and taking our freedoms back. The dictator awaits for your responce, what are you planning to do brave soles? Interested persons can contact me for "active duty". Yours in tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox, Sask.,Soviet Kanukistan(formerly Canada) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:22:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Ethnic Military Jokes & Armchair Military Quarterbacking We'd better be careful where we go with these. Everyone is vulnerable. There's been bungling, fiascoes, cowardice, incompetence and dastardly = acts perpetrated by every army that ever went to war. Especially amongst = those with strong or direct civilian intervention and control or totally = militaristic regimes. Most societies enter into war with great reluctance as the last resort = of failed diplomacy. Some use it as a means of expediting those same = diplomatic agendas. So, we have a lot of foot dragging on the part of = some, some flagrant profiteering by others, and shameless aggression for = economic/political factors by others. History determines the 'good guys' = from the 'bad guys' depending on who wins. The victors get to write the = reviews. Aside from a propensity to bomb, shell and strafe their allies once in a = while, the Amis have been by and large good allies and essential with = their massive manpower and material resources. The Allies were bled dry = when the US came into WW1 and tipped the balance of the stalemate. Can anyone imagine defeating Hitler or Horohito without the same US = resources being fed into the mix? They were over paid, over fed, over = sexed - but they were there! Enough already with the French/American bashing - "Remember the Alamo! = Remember the Maine! Remember the WTC! Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite!, = Storm the Bastille!, Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive la Legionne = Etrangere!" Now lets all get together and kick some serious ass.... Now, having said that, is it true that Italian AFV's have two forward = speeds and five reverse? Todd Birch Merritt, BC PS: I thought that smokeless powders were a "propellant", not an = "explosive". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:23:43 -0600 (CST) From: "John Poulin" Subject: Re: the French and accordians or the armchair Canucks and accordians On Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:52 EST, Joe Gingrich wrote: > We have already lost our freedoms under our currant dictator. Where are > all the 7 million brave gun owners and others now? All we need from them > is peaceful active civil disobedience. The silence is deafening Joe. Our freedoms were destroyed well before C-68. Did you really expect 7 million gun owners to rise up out of their lazy boys or warm beds? This is Canada, land of apathy, not the free. IP wrote: > Then it will be up to us, gun-owners and others to > liberate the country by guiding guerilla warfare. Guerilla warfare? In Canada where Johnny Canuck armed with his '2-4', lazy boy and TV switched on to Hockey Night in Canada. You're kidding, right? JP Poulin ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #780 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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