From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #786 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, February 18 2003 Volume 05 : Number 786 In this issue: RFC Ottawa: Notice of Firearms Meeting FW: A Liberal Cabinet Minister Explains The Firearms Act Re: [Fwd: What a mess we have made] Re: [Fwd: What a mess we have made] Re: COLUMN: If you don't vote like a gun owner, YOU SUCK! When A Government Fears Its Own People Suggestion from jane gaffin ..perspective from the foxhole... Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #782 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:11:28 -0600 (CST) From: Al Dorans Subject: RFC Ottawa: Notice of Firearms Meeting RFC Ottawa/FED UP Canada Protecting Canadian Freedoms ...................................... Dear Firearms Owners, February 17, 2003 This is to inform you that from 7:30-9:00 P.M. on Wednesday, February 19th, at the North Gower Recreation Centre, there will be a public meeting on the federal gun registry. North Gower is located 25 minutes south of Ottawa. The arena address is 2300 Community Way, North Gower, Ontario. Speakers will include Canadian Alliance M.P. Garry Brietkreuz, CA Firearms Critic and Property Rights; and Professor Al Dorans, Director, Recreational Firearms Community, Ottawa. Professor Al Dorans Director, RFC Ottawa Chairman, FED UP Canada ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:15:33 -0600 (CST) From: Hayes Holdings Subject: FW: A Liberal Cabinet Minister Explains The Firearms Act To: Canadian Firearms Digest Cc: Catterall.M@parl.gc.ca, Anders.R@parl.gc.ca, Breitkreuz.G@parl.gc.ca, Clark.J@parl.gc.ca, Harper.S@parl.gc.ca Remembering the pithy letter Rick Lowe received from Marlene Catterall about her diligent work on the firearms act, you folks tell me who takes more time out of their schedule to consider and reply to a letter from a concerned taxpayer that does not live in their constituency. Kudos to Joe Clark and his staff for remembering that taxpayers and citizens exist outside of Ottawa and Toronto. Interestingly, I have not even received an acknowledgement from Marlene. Jason Hayes Principal - Hayes Holdings Consulting Calgary, AB, Canada hh@hayz.ws / http://www.hayz.ws - -----Original Message----- From: Dawe, Lori On Behalf Of Clark, Joe - M.P. Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:01 AM To: 'hh@hayz.ws' Subject: RE: A Liberal Cabinet Minister Explains The Firearms Act Dear Mr. Hayes; Thank you for your sadly funny letter concerning the Liberal's disastrous firearms registry. I appreciate your having taken the time to share your views with me. As you are no doubt aware, the Progressive Conservative Party has worked vigorously in the past for effective firearms legislation that keeps all guns out of the wrong hands and the wrong guns out of all hands. Gun control legislation should be designed to ensure that criminal use of firearms is prevented and punished. It should also promote safe firearms training, usage and storage. What we have always needed is a focussed, common sense approach not the repressive, bloated billion-dollar boondoggle crafted by Jean Chretien, Paul Martin, Allan Rock, Anne McLellan and Martin Cauchon. When the Auditor General made her report to Parliament on December 3rd, she only confirmed what we in the PC Party had long suspected. In fact, as part of our election platform, we promised to repeal the long gun registration system and uphold and enforce provisions that control criminal and unsafe use of firearms. At that time we suspected that the Canadian Firearms Centre's finances were out of control but did not know to what extent. Our figures at that time indicated that the costs to date were over $300 million and rising. Clearly this was an issue the Liberals were well aware of, but chose to try to sweep under the carpet. Current figures, as you are aware, now indicate that by 2005, the registry will be nearly $1 billion in the red, and yet this government tried to request an additional $72 million last week for the program. I would like to say that this sort of fiscal mismanagement was without precedent, but as you and I both know this is just another example of ineptitude and arrogance by this Liberal government. Clearly the Auditor General has proven her mettle, and has reached the conclusion that the Department of Justice hid the overruns from Parliament. Rather than suspend or cancel the registry, the government has chosen to pay outside consultants at KPMG to conduct an audit of the books. Further, it now seems that the person who was hired to review the gun registry once acted as a lobbyist for EDS, one of the companies that sold the software to the government to run the gun registry. This is just adding insult to injury. The question is, what is the government trying to hide and what is the cost to the Canadian taxpayer? Even Liberal Members of Parliament are calling for the resignation of Allan Rock who, as Justice Minister, was the architect of this disaster. This government was warned about the costs in 1995 during the original Justice Committee hearings that the price tag would escalate to at least $500 million, yet the Minister steadfastly and repeatedly stated that the cost would be only $85 million over the period of 1995 to 2001. Anne McLellan also shares in the blame because it was she who oversaw most of the registry's implementation and was responsible for the fact that the money for this doomed project was backdoored through supplementary estimates. The Prime Minister must hold someone accountable for this fiasco or take the blame himself. I am attaching for your information the Hansard transcripts of questions and statements made in the House of Commons by my colleagues and myself on this issue since the Auditor General's report was made public. This issue cannot be willed away, and it is imperative that we as Canadians demand financial and moral accountability from this government. Again, thank you for writing and for bringing your views to my attention. Your input has been most helpful. Sincerely, Joe Clark [Moderator's Note: 20KB of Hansard Records removed - that's 2/3rds of a whole Digest. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:23:41 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: [Fwd: What a mess we have made] "E. John Wilson" wrote: > I just received this in the mail today, thought that it aptly shows the > negative effects of Political Correctness gone mad... John > > In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a > laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, > it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking. Billy Graham's > daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her > "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks > on Sept. 11). > > Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She > said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for Another Urban Legend, John. Anne Graham Lotz was indeed interviewed by Jane Clayson, but she did not give the long impassioned speech that was forwarded to you. There were no references to pornography, the murder of Madeleine Murray O'Hare, school shootings, Dr. Spock, spanking your child, condoms in schools, etc. Basically, somebody took the fact she was interviewed and made the rest up. You can read the actual transcript of the interview on The Early Report website if you so choose. > Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on > your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what > they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried > about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us. I wonder what God thinks of the person who wrote this pack of lies up, attributed it to somebody famous who never said it, and then challenged those who might receive it about the depth of their religion. I seem to recall the Bible having a thing or two to say about lying and bearing false witness. The person who wrote this impassioned religious defense of God seems to have missed those parts of the Bible... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:31:48 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: [Fwd: What a mess we have made] Rick Lowe wrote: > "E. John Wilson" wrote: > > > I just received this in the mail today, thought that it aptly shows the > > negative effects of Political Correctness gone mad... John > > > > In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a > > laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, > > it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking. Billy Graham's > > daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her > > "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks > > on Sept. 11). > > > > Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She > > said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for > > Another Urban Legend, John. Anne Graham Lotz was indeed interviewed by Jane > Clayson, but she did not give the long impassioned speech that was forwarded to > you. There were no references to pornography, the murder of Madeleine Murray > O'Hare, school shootings, Dr. Spock, spanking your child, condoms in schools, > etc. > > Basically, somebody took the fact she was interviewed and made the rest up. You > can read the actual transcript of the interview on The Early Report website if > you so choose. > > > Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on > > your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what > > they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried > > about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us. > > I wonder what God thinks of the person who wrote this pack of lies up, > attributed it to somebody famous who never said it, and then challenged those > who might receive it about the depth of their religion. > > I seem to recall the Bible having a thing or two to say about lying and bearing > false witness. The person who wrote this impassioned religious defense of God > seems to have missed those parts of the Bible... I thought it smelled a little funny, myself, but in the interest of free speech, I let it through. I should have trusted my instincts and checked with that Fount of All Knowledge, Snopes.com: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/wheregod.htm Bruce Mills Moderator Pro-Tem Canadian Firearms Digest ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:31:54 -0600 (CST) From: IP Subject: Re: COLUMN: If you don't vote like a gun owner, YOU SUCK! Well, is seems to be that the American gun owners enjoy the same attitude as their Canadian Brothers-In-Arms. Perticulary those in Taxachussets.... Based on my cousins in Ohio, I thought the AMerican gun owners are a little more sharp. Yes, they have a powerful gun: the 2nd ammandment; we don't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:22:21 -0600 (CST) From: janegaffin@canada.com Subject: When A Government Fears Its Own People WHEN A GOVERNMENT FEARS ITS OWN PEOPLE by Jane Gaffin Whitehorse, Yukonslavia, Kanuckistan -- The jaws of night had clamped shut over the glowing home where a petite woman alone prepared the hearth for Christmas. Her 56-year-old husband was away shopping that fateful evening. Then came the enormous rapping. The woman opened the door, invitingly. Her unexpected guests were a female and two male officers, clad in regulation uniform; a fourth was garbed from head to toe in menacing black. All were packing heat and drugged on adrenalin. They forced their way inside, threatening arrest if the woman didn't leave. Put out of her own home into the dark and cold, her main concern was to somehow get word to her husband who might be coming up the road any moment. Meanwhile, the four mauraders tracked around the immaculate house in muddy jackboots and went to work trashing the place like common burglars. They broke locks and ripped down paneling--even to the hot water tank! From the basement walls, they crowbarred securely-mounted displays of various-sized cartridges and deactivated gun parts that served as teaching tools. They made many trips to and from the house, stashing an enormous pile of pirated booty in the vehicles clustered in the yard. By now, the husband was watching the sickening scene from a distant vantage point. It would take weeks, maybe months, to evaluate losses. Among the long list of items seized was a collection of firearms, ammunition, gun powder, files, records, registration papers, diaries, journals, gadgets, portable search light, and so forth. One stormtrooper fancied a scrimshaw power horn, hanging from the gun-room wall as an art object, as well as $500 in cash. This terrifying assault could have been staged under the brutal dictatorships of Hitler's Nazi Germany, Josef Stalin's Soviet Russia, Mao Tse-tung's China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Suddam Hussein's Iraq, or Big Brother's totalitarian regime described in George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four". But it didn't happen during any of those terrible periods of history. This looting happened in Jean Chretien's Canada. Anybody, Anywhere Kanuckistan is susceptible to the same brutish treatment by the state powers as was experienced by Brian and Carol Ward of Qualicum, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, on December 18, 2002. Similar episodes occur all too frequently across this country, but seldom does the general public hear when members of a national police force go beserk, preying on unprepared citizens. The mainstream press shies away from these ugly incidents. The police should be busting down doors of the thousands of undesirable foreigners who disappeared underground with their illegal AK-47s, bomb-making materials and contracts to kill. That would be too dangerous, though. The police might get hurt. Hardened criminals bite back. If, however, some officers are bound by sworn oaths to protect ordinary civilians from bodily harm and their private property from trespassers, why aren't all officers duty-bound by the same ethics? Why do some RCMP officers spin out of control so far that ordinary people need protection from THEM? Maybe the Wards should have called 911. Can't get police back-up? Send in the firefighters with their high-pressure hoses to water-log those four puppies. "Oh, gee, boys and girls, sorry to curtail your fun by flooding your cruisers; we thought they were on fire." A retired RCMP officer, formerly posted in Yukonslavia--the home of the infamous raid on the Allen Carlos family in February 2000--shed light on the shameful behaviour of police abusing their descretionary power. They use the law to put pressure on, and get even with, anyone they don't like, he wrote. "Not all policemen are bad. But there is more pressure to use the laws to harass those they see as 'subversive', 'anti-establishment' and 'anti-polce'. Politics and politicians are now interfering with the former independence of the police." Well, maybe so. But history has an uncanny way of repeating itself. The day will come when those same hypocritical government cops, prosecutors and judges - hiding behind uniforms, suits, robes and titles with impunity and no conscience - - will have to face a jury comprised of their former victims. The pitiful pleas of "I was just following orders" didn't wash at Nuremberg, where Nazi SS officers were sentenced to dangle from hemp, and it didn't wash 52 years later when the last of the lot was flushed from behind their disguises. Courts determined former Nazi SS officers, old and infirm in 2001, were not "just following orders" but did shoot and fatally beat helpless prisoners "just because they had a lust for power and murder". In the Viel case heard in Ravensburg, Germany, presiding judge, Hermann Winkler, said, "...everybody should know that even after a long time, they will be called to account." Also facing the jury of victims will be any Benedict Arnolds who turn against the civil rights advocates to cut backroom deals with the devils in the so-called Justice department. Traitors to the cause won't be allowed off the hook with, "Oh, shucks, guys, we meant well when we were giving away your rights." Tell it to the provost. Next? When the public does hear about police raids in this country, the initial reaction from individuals who depend on coffee shops as a main news source, and from reporters who are conditioned to believe all police and prosecutors are of sterling character, will inevitably be: "The guy must have done something wrong." Sure, if breathing is now counted as an illicit activity. This aggressive ransacking of the Ward home was instigated by nothing more serious than a paper-trail problem. It is a classic example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. As well, a firearms officer and the police disagreed on the interpretation of complex and confusing laws. Ward was caught in the vise. It seems from trying to untangle this complication that the police were attempting to trace a couple of mystery handguns. One cop said they'd found the guns; another cop said they hadn't. Ward was blamed for possessing the guns and was pestered to forfeit them to the police. On several occasions, Ward and an officer had pored over an exhibit list of guns the police gave Ward to sell for another fellow whose property was seized due to an alleged domestic dispute. Ward had sold one handgun for him. Then the police, doing an about-face, wanted the other gun returned to them; an officer came to his home to collect it. In their minds, a third one was unaccounted for. Smart cops don't rely on FIPS, FAPS, FARTS or any firearms registries as accurate. Often physical descriptions and owner's names don't match with serial numbers, which can be assigned numerous times to different types and models of firearms. The registries are particularly useless for tracing anything as obscure as ghost guns. Soon, the police had their knickers in a knot. They opted for a Ninja-style raid. It speaks volumes that the female constable had to "shop" to find a judge willing to sign a search warrant. The destructive raid was definitely an overkill. After the dust settled, the mystery gun(s) wasn't part of the plunder. However, they did come home with a searchlight, wall hanging and cash! Obviously, they couldn't find much wrong with Ward's storage practices, either, if all they could conjure up was one feeble violation that wasn't related to a specific firearm. Ward's "built like Gibraltar" gun room was as secure as a bank vault, which, of course, is not impenetrable, as proven by the cops. Yet, in the past, courts had recognized the security and occasionally released guns to be stored by Ward while a defendant awaited a prohibition period to expire. Maybe this what miffed the Mounties--too incompetent to store guns for the courts? Nevertheless, there weas no discernible purpose for the home invasion, other than to believe the officers were career-motivated. The police knew the Wards, who are long-term residents of the community. Hell, Mrs. Ward had raised some of the RCMP's kids in her day-care centre. Both Wards held Possession and Acquisition Licenses (PALs)--that is, until the police confiscated the paperwork. Ward was a veteran firearms instructor, a range master and firearms verifer. He has taught air cadets to shoot and handle firearms as well as qualified countless people for firearms licenses. Ward is an early retiree from the City of Port Alberni, drawing a reduced pension. He is now prevented from supplementing his income as an instructor. Without proper records, neither can he file an adequate income-tax return for last year's earnings. Besides saddled with the extra burden of legal fees, the Wards have to wrestle with the psychological trauma of a house sacking. People's homes used to be their castles, untouchable by outsiders. Now open season has been declared by the police, who can enter and pocket whatever valuables they fancy during these wholesale fishing expeditions. The warning signs are blatant. Historically, these type property violations are followed by cold-blooded mass murders carried out - not by hoodlums and hate mongers - but by organized government-paid tyrants. The pattern leading up to democides/genocides is, first, governments promote strict gun-control laws as "public safety" and "anti-crime" measures before completely disarming the populace. The night-raid tactics of 21st Century Kanuckistan are identical to Stalin's Soviet Russia-- even to being shot should victims resist when dragged from their homes in the middle of the night on a mere suggestion they might be enemies of the state. Groundless allegations without a shred of supporting evidence still have the power to destroy innocent people. Before Adolph Hitler came to power, the Germans - like Canadians today - were conditioned to be law-abiding. They rejected purchasing firearms on the black market, foolishly believing that only hoodlums owned "hot" guns. The disarmed Jews didn't fare so well, did they? And it is a scary proposition that some police still carry the torch for the Nazi mindset, righteously participating in felonious attacks against good people like Brian and Carol Ward. This ruthless behavior is akin to shoving the sharp end of a bayonet into the heart of this country's freedoms. It is truly frightening what transpires as soon as a paranoid government like Chretien's begins to fear its own citizenry. * * * * * A Vancouver Island Legal Defense Fund has been established with the Coastal Community Credit Union, Parksville/Nanaimo, B.C., account number 15210-809-1030-86477, for the immediate use of Mr. and Mrs. Brian Ward. Cheques also can be mailed to: Norm Minard, secretary-treasurer, PO Box 207, Coombs, B.C., VOR 1M0 - - 30 - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:58:05 -0600 (CST) From: janegaffin@canada.com Subject: Suggestion from jane gaffin Hi CFD, jane gaffin stopped by Enter Stage Right and suggested that you visit the following URL: http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0203/0203canadaig.htm Here is their message.... No message; article speaks for itself. Why aren't RCMP and CSIS chasing these types? Better yet, why is the Chretien government allowing these undesirables into Kanuckistan? JG Enter Stage Right http://www.enterstageright.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:59:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: ..perspective from the foxhole... >From my perspective as an ex- Regular Army NCO, the best Officers were those that rose from the ranks. These weren't 'battlefield commissions' but peace time promotions earned by dedicated soldiers. Weren't both Napoleon and Hitler Corporals before becoming demagogues? Todd Birch Merritt,BC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:07:16 -0600 (CST) From: "David M" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #782 > Feb. 16, 2003 > >From NewsMax.com/ > > > China Exploits 'Terrorism' to Repress Freedom > > China is at it again, this time using "terrorism" as an excuse to crack down > on dissidents and reformers. Bombing is a not uncommon form of protest in China which is by no means a new phenomenon, not reported in the press of course. When I was working at Lanzhou Airport in 1987 a car bomb aimed at taking out several local dignitaries who were lunching in the airport restaurant where my colleagues and I ate all our meals exploded moments too early. Fortunately I was away in Peking that day and my colleagues had been late for lunch and arrived in time to see the wrecked saloon being removed. The Chinese were very thorough in removing all the scrap metal from the area but neglected to do anything about the bloodstains of the unfortunate chauffer which remained splattered up the side of the building for some months, Lanzhou being a very dry area with infrequent rainfall. DM. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #786 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@sprint.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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