From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #928 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, March 30 2003 Volume 05 : Number 928 In this issue: Re: "Norinco 1911," V5 #926 Who can respond to Hedy Fry's letter Victim chased down, slain in Rexdale Top court to rule on jail weapons Thieves make off with 382 rifles MLA breaks down, registers his firearms Prince Albert's top cop, three others suspended Cowboy fights ticket for using horse to commute RFC's stand on Iraq war Re: Childrens hosp! re: NAFTA (softwood dispute) Editorial, Ottawa Sun RFC fund raising idea Copy of a message I just sent to Snopes ( www.snopes.com ) Fw: Comedian gets award Add to BLACKLIST: "Gun club" Letter, Edmonton Sun ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:57:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Yannis Marine" Subject: Re: "Norinco 1911," V5 #926 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.M. Bell" To: Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:38 AM Subject: Re: "Norinco 1911," V5 #926 > You're obviously in a different league from me, Yanni. I don't shoot a > tenth of the rounds you do. Your experience sounds hard won, and I > respect that. Even so, "garbage" surely exaggerates the state of parts > that will nevertheless stand up to many hundreds of rounds, and there is > evidence that Norinco's quality has improved in recent years. My > shooting partner's _old_ Norinco has stood up for a few thousand. > > Thanks for your comment. > > jmb Yes they might have improved for the exports. The once that I am referring to are when first introduced in Canada in 1992-1993. The hardening of the shear was surface and when you tried to do a trigger job it would just wear out very soon.then the barrel was to soft and the bushing to loose. Then you want a new spring 18 or 20 pounds for proper cycling and or a different trigger for faster response, and the list goes on. So, when you go trough 400-500 rounds a week for practice and the barrel gets hot the wear is unavoidable. So if the production barrel was not 4140 steel and it was a lower grade carbon steel it was necessary to replace once and for all, all the internal parts. Yanni Take your boaters exam online at www.yannismarine.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:58:34 -0600 (CST) From: Douglas Bailey Subject: Who can respond to Hedy Fry's letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-405685123-1048957036=:81590" - --0-405685123-1048957036=:81590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Who can respond to Hedy Fry's letter. >From my research, much of what she says is patently untrue, particularly regarding deaths from long guns. Could someone like Mike A or Boris prepare a response letter that each of us could send to our MP? My good old 95 year old Mum used to tell me that if someone says a lie unchallenged long enough, it becomes true. It would appear that the government is trying to make truth from fiction. Doug Bailey Barrie, Ontario Boats tied up in harbour are safe, but that's not what boats are for. [Moderator's Note: Please turn off HTML/MIME and/or "quoted-printable" encoding before posting messages to the Digest - plain text only. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:28:37 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Victim chased down, slain in Rexdale http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-03-29-0016.html Saturday, March 29, 2003 Victim chased down, slain in Rexdale By JONATHAN KINGSTONE, TORONTO SUN A shooting victim collapsed in the middle of a busy Rexdale street yesterday after a desperate but ultimately unsuccessful run for his life through the pathways of a townhouse complex with a deadly history. The 31-year-old man, who died soon after arriving in hospital, was described by one Toronto Police officer as developmentally challenged. He had reportedly been shot in the face. He fell on John Garland Blvd., near Finch Ave. W. and Martin Grove Rd. NURSE HELPED A nurse who was driving by about 2 p.m. stopped after she spotted the victim lying motionless in the centre of the street. "I leaned over and said 'Hi', to see if he would respond, but he couldn't," said the nurse, who identified herself only by her last name, Ford. "His eyes closed and I couldn't get a pulse," Ford said. "He was dead ... I know he was dead." He could not be revived by an ambulance crew and died soon after at Sunnybrook hospital. The dead man's identity was not confirmed by police, who were still trying to locate his family last night. SISTER WEEPS A weeping woman who described herself to officers as the victim's sister, arrived at the scene 5 1/2 hours after the shooting. She was whisked away by police. Investigators have no suspects and no motive yet, homicide Det.-Sgt. Mario Di Tommaso said. Di Tommaso said there was a short chase through the Jamestown complex as the killer or killers pursued the victim. Resident Rolando Hidalgo, 38, said he heard three shots. In recent years, murder and drugs became such a threat in the area that police set up a task force to break the backs of gun-toting hoodlums. Two years ago, a nasty turf war erupted between rival Crips gangs. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:37:24 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Top court to rule on jail weapons http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-03-29-0004.html Saturday, March 29, 2003 Top court to rule on jail weapons By TONY BLAIS, COURT BUREAU An Edmonton case involving whether prison convicts are entitled to arm themselves in self-defence is going to Ottawa to Canada's highest court. Defence lawyer Charles Davison yesterday asked a judge to adjourn the Alberta Court of Appeal-ordered sentencing of inmate Jason Kerr, 26, because he is in the process of filing an appeal with the Supreme Court of Canada. The country's top court must hear the case because the appeal panel substituted Kerr's acquittal with a conviction rather than ordering a new trial, said Davison, who asked the judge to wait for the Supreme Court's decision. Court of Queen's Bench Justice Terry Clackson agreed and put the sentencing off until Oct. 8 after hearing the Crown was not opposed, and the fact Kerr will remain in prison on other charges until February. On Feb. 22, 2002, Clackson acquitted Kerr of both second-degree murder and possession of a dangerous weapon for stabbing Joe Garon, 25, to death with a home-made knife and ice pick during a Jan. 16, 2000, fight in a dining area at the maximum-security Edmonton Institution. Clackson ruled the killing was done in self-defence and said it was acceptable for Kerr to arm himself because all of the other inmates had weapons. "Given the violent atmosphere prevalent at the institution at the time and the number of inmates with home-made weapons, it's my view that the weapons possessed by Mr. Kerr were not possessed contrary to Section 88(1) of the Criminal Code; rather, it would seem that Mr . Kerr had his weapons, much like the world superpowers have their weapons, to deter first strike and defend against it should it become necessary," said Clackson at the time. The Alberta Court of Appeal upheld Kerr's acquittal on the murder charge in a recent decision, but overturned the second acquittal, disagreeing with Clackson's finding. "I cannot agree with the trial judge's suggestion that the prevalence of illegal concealed weapons in the prison system entitled (Kerr) to do the same in self-defence," said Justice Ron Berger in the written decision. "That reasoning, with respect, is a recipe for anarchy within a prison setting. "It encourages the proliferation of illegal homemade weapons, exacerbates an already volatile atmosphere, and makes it more likely that violent outbursts will result in grievous bodily harm or death." Court heard Garon, a member of the Indian Posse gang, came at Kerr with his own home-made knife after a dispute over coffee. The two of them stabbed each other several times and Garon ended up dying from his wounds. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:37:55 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Thieves make off with 382 rifles http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-03-29-0037.html Saturday, March 29, 2003 Thieves make off with 382 rifles By CP MONTREAL -- Police were requesting the public's help yesterday after 382 hunting rifles were stolen earlier this week from a truck trailer in a parking lot. The theft of the Winchester and Browning rifles happened early Tuesday, police said. The trailer holding the rifles was in a transport company's parking lot, which had a guard and security cameras. Montreal police Cmdr. Leonard Lechman said the company will be lectured about security. Lechman said he expects the firearms will be sold to hunters and not to criminals. "People who might be found in possession of this type of weapon could be accused of possession of stolen goods," Lechman said. Police have few clues but believe the theft was committed by members of organized crime. Police have not excluded the possibility of charging the owner of the trailer with negligence. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:43:42 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: MLA breaks down, registers his firearms http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-03-29-0059.html Saturday, March 29, 2003 MLA breaks down, registers his firearms By JERRY WARD, LEGISLATURE BUREAU Tory MLA Tony Abbott has bit the bullet and registered his firearms. "I did what I'd hoped I would never have to do - that is, very reluctantly, I registered my guns," the Drayton Valley-Calmar MLA said yesterday. Abbott said he had earlier refused to register a rifle and a shotgun with Ottawa's firearms registry, citing concerns over infringements on his property rights. But that changed after Abbott got a visit earlier this month from RCMP Staff Sgt. Steve Harrington of Drayton Valley. "He said he'd received numerous calls and complaints from people asking for me to be charged because I went public about not registering," Abbott said. "I was trying to make a statement to the feds. I was doing it to support my constituents but I wasn't going to allow it to get to the point where I was putting my family or my job in jeopardy." Abbott registered his guns online, at no cost, on March 8, more than two months after the deadline. However his colleague, Wainwright Tory MLA Doug Griffiths, remains defiant. Griffiths said he won't register his four firearms - two shotguns, a .22-calibre rifle and a .22-calibre handgun - to protest mandatory gun registration. "He's a young fella, single and no family and he said he's willing to go to jail or whatever it takes and he's not going to register his guns and go all the way," Abbott said. "So I am certainly backing him and thanking him for his ability to go a bit further with it than I did." Griffiths said one of his guns was reclassified as a restricted or prohibited weapon and he refuses the federal government's orders to sell it, destroy it or turn it over to Mounties. Wainwright RCMP have yet to speak with Griffiths, nor have they received any complaints from the public, said Sgt. Steve Visnoski. In June 2000, the Supreme Court upheld the Firearms Act as constitutionally valid. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:44:10 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Prince Albert's top cop, three others suspended http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-03-29-0061.html Saturday, March 29, 2003 Prince Albert's top cop, three others suspended By CP PRINCE ALBERT, Sask. -- The city's chief of police, two of his senior officers and the mayor were suspended yesterday from police-related duties over an incident shrouded in secrecy. Mayor Don Cody was suspended as chairman of the police commission while Chief John Quinn and two unnamed officers were suspended with pay from their jobs, the city's police commission said in a statement. Cody also resigned as chairman of Saskatchewan's Government Insurance Corp. Cody and Quinn could not immediately be reached for comment. The suspensions resulted from an undisclosed incident, allegedly involving Cody, that occurred Wednesday night. The commission did not provide further details except to say it acted after a third-party complaint. After Quinn's suspension, Insp. Dale McFee was named interim police chief. He then suspended the two unnamed senior officers pending the outcome of the investigation, which is being conducted by Regina police. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:51:16 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Cowboy fights ticket for using horse to commute People have mobility rights, and the right to use such "conveyances" as they see fit to employ in the free exercise of that right... http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2003/03/27/52549-cp.html Cowboy fights ticket for using horse to commute GRANDE PRAIRIE, Alta. (CP) - A crusading cowboy was run out of town by local lawmen Friday after a high-noon showdown outside city hall. Earlier this week, horse trainer Joe Gill, 22, was fined $50 for riding his horse from his home east of the city into town where he needed to do some errands. On Friday, Gill mounted his horse again and rode to the front door of Grande Prairie city hall to confront staff about the bylaw that bans riding in city limits. After unsuccessfully trying to meet with Mayor Wayne Ayling, who was out of the office, Gill was stopped by one of the city's bylaw enforcement officers, who detained him for about a half-hour and then let him go without a ticket. However, the officer warned Gill he might be ticketed later, and told him the city was considering involving the RCMP. "That scared me quite a bit. I was pretty worried about it," said Gill. Garry Roth, director of enforcement services for the city, said he does plan to meet with RCMP and the Crown prosecutor to discuss the case. City officials have said that having horses on the streets doesn't work because the animals could be spooked by emergency vehicles, or impede the progress of regular automobile traffic. Gill said he plans to start circulating a petition to change the bylaw at local businesses over the weekend. "I'm going to keep it up," he said. "I don't give up easily." Gill has said he's been riding into town at least once a day since moving to the Grande Prairie area from British Columbia in November, visiting friends, running errands, and doing his grocery shopping. (Grande Prairie Herald-Tribune) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:29:28 -0600 (CST) From: "John Stamp" Subject: RFC's stand on Iraq war Check out http://assyrianchristians.com/i_was_wrong_mar_26_03.htm Seems you've got it right, Mr. Dorans. John Stamp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:30:14 -0600 (CST) From: B Farion Subject: Re: Childrens hosp! > I support the National Firearms Program, statistics prove that this is good > public policy and can improve the safety of our communities. Let's remedy > the administrative problems and not "throw the baby out with the bath water." > > I trust I have addressed your concerns. If you have any questions > whatsoever feel free to contact my office. > > Sincerely, > > The Hon. Hedy Fry, P.C., M.P. > > Vancouver Centre > Hi; Last I heard, the value of car parts was greater than the value of the car intact! How come people in here riding are whining for donations for a children's hospital??? How many times do jerks like her think I should be taxed! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:31:08 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Snow Subject: re: NAFTA (softwood dispute) > Subject: assitance required > > About two months ago there was a posting with regards to Liberal > memerbs in a NAFTA meeting with the Americans. Apparently they > behaved badly and screwed over the yanks. Does anyone have this > posting. If so, please forward same to me. Thanks. My Mp is > querrying the veracity of this. > > JR > This is a backgrounder of the Pope and Talbot case. I haven't found the actual post but I recall that Canada had to pay some 80 million USD for legal fees. This backgrounder mentions the deciet of the Canadian govt. http://www.appletonlaw.com/cases/P&T-Backgrounder.pdf. Here is a long list of Chapter 11 NAFTA lawsuits. http://www.whitecase.com/latin_america_report_04_01.html#I6 Latin America Trade and Investment Summary of Reports for April 2001, White & Case LLP Hope this is part of what you are looking for, Barry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:09:56 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Editorial, Ottawa Sun http://www.canoe.ca/OttawaSun/editorial.html Ottawa Sun Editorial March 29 Crime Henry Danninger was a street punk and drug dealer the night he went looking for trouble at a bar on Somerset St. It was Dec. 23, 1998. Danninger was hoping to settle a score with a roommate and, with that in mind, he bought and packed a knife ... you know, just in case. There was a ruckus and when Andrew Moffitt, a 23-year-old University of Ottawa engineering student, tried to intervene he was stabbed in the heart and killed by Danninger. For more than four years, Andrew Moffitt's family has awaited justice. They didn't get it this week. Instead, a court sentenced Danninger on a reduced charge of manslaughter. After granting him the usual double credit for time spent under "house arrest," a judge sentenced him to five years which, under our insane sentencing system, means he will be eligible for parole in less than two years. Imagine that: Less than two years of real jail time for plunging a knife into an innocent young man and killing him. Of course, there'll be no time off for good behaviour, nor will there be double credit for the pain and anguish already endured by the victim's family. No, the Moffitts have been handed a life sentence of heartache and for that our system offers painfully little by way of mercy. In passing sentence, Ontario Superior Court Justice Roydon Kealey urged the family to bring closure to the terrible death of their son and to move on with their lives. "The case is done. It's over," he said. "It is my hope and prayer that you are given the grace to put closure in your lives." While nothing could possibly erase the grief brought by such a tragic and senseless loss, we're certain that a stiffer sentence, one that better reflected the true magnitude of the crime, would at least have given the Moffitts comfort in knowing that justice had been done. What value do we place on life when the perpetrator of a killing of this nature is dispatched with the same punishment our system might mete out for a jewelry heist or a few stolen cars? How did it come to the point where we place such a low value on life, anyway? Why do we place so little value in notions like accountability and responsibility in our justice system? Henry Danninger bought a knife and killed an innocent young man. He will spend less than two years in jail for it. It's a crime. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:16:47 -0600 (CST) From: Bob Richards Subject: RFC fund raising idea Can we get a jar in every gun shop in the country? Simple annonymous donation. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:17:53 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Copy of a message I just sent to Snopes ( www.snopes.com ) Hi, I love your site and use it often as a ready reference for Truth in my dealings with the naive or misguided among us. Have you considered doing a special feature on Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine? A better example of intentionally perpetrated media fraud I cannot imagine. Here are a few links to start you on your way: 1) Viewer beware http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html 2) Moore's the Pity http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2002/11/franke-ruta-g-11-22.html 3) An Examination of "Bowling for Columbine http://www.galun.com/misc/seasonal/2002/12/17-Moore.html 4) One Moore stupid white man http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html You may also gain valuable insight into the whole firearms issue by reading Lotts books "More Guns Less Crime" (ISBN 0-226-49364-4) and "The Bias Against Guns" (ISBN 0-89526-114-6). I think time will prove that Michael Moore has done in film what Michael Bellesisles did in print: Lie to his audience. I expect Moore will suffer the same fate as Bellesisles as the Truth comes out. Thank you for you attention. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca My Bio: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/mikeack.htm SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:38:07 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Hill Subject: Fw: Comedian gets award Sent to the Halifax papers today. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hill" To: "The Editor Halifax Daily News" Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Comedian gets award > To the Editor > > Michael Moore came to Canada for help in making a film. One would like > to think that this was because of the stellar quality of the production > people here. I have a feeling it was more likely due to the fact he > sensed he would have an easier time foisting his joke upon the world due > to the government anti gun sentiment here. > > The only problem with the whole thing is the category of the award. I > am not sure if there is a category for fiction but this is where it > belonged. > > A documentary would imply that the content was true however this is not the > case. Even the title was fiction as the killers did not, as suggested > attend a bowling class prior to going to the school. > > Wanting something to be so does not make it so, as Liberal politicians > are finding out on the cost of the idiotic farce of a Firearms Act, > which has risen to a cost of over a billion dollars and could likely > double that with the cost of enforcement. This, after Rock's promise of > two million dollars to the taxpayers. > > By the looks of things Rock and Moore may have studied at the same > school of fiction. > > Jim Hill > Fletchers Lake, NS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:29:49 -0600 (CST) From: The Jordan's Subject: Add to BLACKLIST: Add to BLACKLIST: "Murray, Lowell: SEN" Subject: Not read: VOTE NO TO THE FIREARMS REGISTRY FUNDING! To: The Jordan's Your message To: @senexgate.sen.ca Subject: VOTE NO TO THE FIREARMS REGISTRY FUNDING! Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:11:16 -0500 was deleted without being read on Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:47:13 -0500 Final-Recipient: RFC822; MURRAL@SEN.PARL.GC.CA Disposition: automatic-action/MDN-sent-automatically; deleted X-MSExch-Correlation-Key: vZsIkkCdl0WoEDvDDXa9FQ== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:30:29 -0600 (CST) From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Gun club" The following is an excerpt from the Ottawa Citizen's John Robson column of March 29. "3. Gun club Maybe those of us who fear that when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns are unduly worried about the implications. Why, in North York a thug with a shotgun is robbing a pizza delivery guy and, turning the shotgun around to use it as a club, manages to shoot himself. It's not exactly self-defence, but it will do." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:13:42 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Letter, Edmonton Sun http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSun/editorial.html#letters EDMONTON SUN LETTERS March 30, 2003 I WAS just wondering how many helicopters we could buy for the Armed (or disarmed) Forces with the amount of money we will end up spending on the useless gun registry. Jeff Weiss (Lots.) ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #928 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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