From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #940 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, April 2 2003 Volume 05 : Number 940 In this issue: Editor (Par for the course) One day in jail and 9 months of house arrest, for waving a handgun on a busy Toronto street Re: Re digest 935/ Montreal Gazette post Wanted to buy... .22 LR Plinkers Re: "Separation is the Only Way" Canada re: western separation Lost, stolen or destroyed firearms Re: western separation Editorial, Edmonton Sun Re: Lost, stolen or destroyed firearms vote Re: western separation Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #939 Bruce Hutton MP slams Corrections ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:24:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editor (Par for the course) PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun DATE: 2003.04.02 EDITION: Final SECTION: Comment PAGE: 14 COLUMN: Letters to the Editor Re "Cop group lobbies for cash," (March 26): Canadian Police Association President Grant Obst is pleading for more cash to combat child porn and parole violators. In a way, he has only himself and his association to blame. They hooked up their cart to the firearms registry horse and, regardless of the ineffectiveness of the registry program, continue to support this cash-devouring black hole. I find it ironic that in the same paper there are two stories, one on Solicitor General Wayne Easter telling the CPA there is little hope for more dollars. The other story is telling us the Liberals will pour another $59 million into the firearms registry black hole. Wayne Easter tells us the government must deal with "budgetary priorities." Well it's good to know that Farmer Brown's shotgun is more a concern for the government and police than predatory child-porn suspects, drug investigations and parole violators. With Solicitor General Easter's department taking over the registry from the Justice Department, we will see in the future government officials patting themselves on the back, bragging to the Canadian public how budget spending has increased in combating crime, while in reality a large portion of money will just be an expenditure into the useless, ineffective firearms registry. Barry Bassingthwaighte Editor (Par for the course) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:26:51 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: One day in jail and 9 months of house arrest, for waving a handgun on a busy Toronto street PUBLICATION: Toronto Star DATE: 2003.04.02 SECTION: NEWS PAGE: A03 SOURCE: Toronto Star BYLINE: Nick Pron - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Judge calls Don Jail a shame to the system; Grants man triple credit for time served there Says overcrowded cells don't meet U.N. standards - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Toronto judge has blasted the aging and overcrowded Toronto (Don) Jail, calling the facility "an embarrassment to the Canadian criminal justice system." Mr. Justice Richard Schneider made the comment yesterday just before he sentenced a 25-year-old man to one day in jail, followed by nine months of house arrest, after he waved a handgun on a busy Toronto street. Schneider said the jail didn't even meet the minimum standards for housing prisoners as laid out by the United Nations. The judge went on to condemn the practice of putting three inmates in a cell designed for one person, and then keeping them locked up for days on end without letting them out for exercise. A prosecutor had called on the judge to sentence Purnell Smith to four years in jail after he took the .32-calibre handgun to the Brunswick Tavern, looking to get even with some bar patrons he had fought that evening in December, 2002. He was eventually disarmed by three police officers, who are being cited for bravery. But the judge disagreed on the recommended punishment, saying that the four months in custody Smith had served at the Don awaiting trial were so onerous that he was granting a "three-for-one credit," or the equivalent of a year in jail. Brendan Crawley, a spokesperson for the ministry of the attorney-general, said the judge's ruling is being reviewed, and a decision on an appeal would be made within a month. Julia Noonan, a spokesperson for the ministry of public safety and security, said officials are aware of problems at the Don, adding that there are long-term plans for new facilities. "We recognize it is a crowded facility. That is not what we prefer. We have no control over the number of inmates we receive, and we're trying to meet the challenges," she said. But MPP Dave Levac, the Liberal public safety critic, called the judge's comments a "slap in the face" for the provincial government, saying the province knew about problems at the jail a decade ago, and didn't act. A spokesperson for the union that represents jail guards at the Don also accused the provincial government of ignoring a potentially dangerous situation caused by overcrowding at the jail. The Don is currently holding 691 prisoners, or 187 more than the maximum capacity, said Christopher Croisier, a jail guard and president of Local 530 of the Ontario Public Service Employees Union. He said the safety of prison guards is put at risk every time they have to wade into a crowded prison yard to break up fights- some brawls the result of frayed nerves caused by overcrowding. Smith's lawyer, Robin McKechney, predicted that Schneider's ruling would open the floodgates for other defence lawyers to ask for the same credit. Prisoners have traditionally received a two-for-one credit for the time served awaiting trial, known as "dead time." "If we consider ourselves a civilized society, then we shouldn't force anybody to live under these conditions," McKechney said in an interview, referring to his client sleeping on the floor of the cell he shared with two others, his head near the toilet. The court heard the 2-by-3-metre cell was originally designed for one person. Smith and two other inmates were kept in the cell 24 hours a day, for several days at a time, without getting outside for exercise because the jail was short-staffed, the court heard. "Until the government does something to change the conditions at the Don, I will keep asking for the extra credit," McKechney said. "At some point, it will become routine for judges to grant it, and rightly so." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:55:04 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Re digest 935/ Montreal Gazette post axitec@shaw.ca wrote: > > Re Montreal Gazette Post at the very end of digest # 935. > Huh? did I read this correctly???? > I quote. " One key provision would stagger GUN REGISTRATION RENEWALS rather > than have them all EXPIRE at the same time, and thus create a bureaucratic > bottleneck." ..... If this ain't a mistake, > in substituting registration for licencing, then we're all in the sh*t a > hell of a lot deeper than we realise! > > Did I miss something? I admit to having skipped many digests, due to work > and time constraints, but I'm sure I would have caught that one. Pleeeese, > somebody, tell me it's not true! Th Gazette got it wrong. According to a post earlier by Dennis, Martin Cauchon said in the House: "We all know that we have tabled a good plan of action. Of course one very important part of that plan of action with regard to gun control policy is Bill C-10A. Bill C-10A will have a very positive effect and impact on the program. Just to name a few positive effects, we will simplify the requirements for licence renewal, for example, stagger firearms licence renewals as well; increase the use of the Internet; establish a pre-application process for temporary importation by non-resident visitors." So, it *is* license renewals, not registrations, that is going to be affected. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:55:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael Adams" Subject: Wanted to buy... .22 LR Plinkers I am looking for an Armi-Jager AP-74. Would prefer the varient with the telescoping stock, but willing to consider others as well. Valid PAL and pedigree. Also looking for magazines to fit a Mitchell M-1600. I am told that models such as AK-22, AK22, AK-47/22 , MAK-22 MAK22 M-AK22, AP-15, AP15, M116, M-116, M-20, M20, M-1600, M1600, M-1600R, M1600R will all fit this. They may have a "dummy" box at the bottom or not. Please reply off list - many thanks! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:44:11 -0600 (CST) From: "MCNEIL, DAVE" Subject: Re: "Separation is the Only Way" >From: Bruce Mills >Subject: Re: "Separation is the Only Way" > >Todd Birch wrote: > >> Alberta was justly indignant when Trudeau imposed the NEB and they lost. >> control of their resource. But does Klein have the political gonads to do >> the right thing and assert the sovereignty of his province? Yeah, right? >> >> Todd Birch >> Merritt, BC > >You know, I'm starting to get as pissed off at Western separation as I am at >Quebec separation. > >All it amounts to is taking your ball and going home, instead of staying and >fighting for what's right. > >You'd be consigning the rest of us to eternal servitude by your attitude, and it >bothers me to no end. > >If you don't want to stay and fight for this country, then I suggest you go to >one more to your liking. I have to agree with Bruce. I don't understand the voting habits of Ontario any more than our friends out west. How can you explain a population that puts the Liberals in Ottawa, but Conservatives into Queens Park? Every time I see a post blaming Ontario on the problems of the country I have to wince. I didn't vote for them, in fact I worked really hard for the Alliance. I worked on the board of directors for years in my local riding, and my feet were on the ground "walking the talk" during the elections. I can understand the west's frustration. I've lived in Quebec and Ontario all my life, but I read Preston Manning's book "Think Big" which gives an easterner a good glimpse of why the "west wants in", and why they might also want "out". I still believe in the Reform/Alliance vision, that of electing a responsible federal government that will treat all citizens of this country as equals. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:32:30 -0600 (CST) From: Rae Baker Subject: Canada The present gpvernment is doing all it can to destroy Canada, and Iam very upset by those people. Our problem is that our Capital is practically imbedded in Quebec. I would move it to Winnipeg . If you look at the names of the people working in the government , you will see that they are all French Canadian. Is there any wonder we have trouble, (and My Father was from Quebec City). Iam please that they will put up a statue of Pierre Elliot. That will give people a place to urinate. Must put one up for Brian Mulrooney, and John Diefenbaker. I jest not...When listening to the Prime Minister I recall that if you disturbe a pile of bovine excrement, all you get is a bad smell and flies. Rae Baker Burlington,Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:33:18 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Snow Subject: re: western separation Bruce said: > You know, I'm starting to get as pissed off at Western separation as > I am at Quebec separation. > > All it amounts to is taking your ball and going home, instead of > staying and fighting for what's right. > If we had any say in parliament, (as Scotland for example) there might be some point to continuing this fight. > You'd be consigning the rest of us to eternal servitude by your > attitude, and it bothers me to no end. Central Canada has already consigned the West to eternal servitude. > > If you don't want to stay and fight for this country, then I suggest > you go to one more to your liking. I believe that this is what the suggestion is all about. Making a country more to their/our/my liking. > > Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario > Save Canada, Free the West: no Kyoto, no wheat board, no gun registration Barry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:37:19 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Lost, stolen or destroyed firearms All you legal-beagle wannabe types put on your thinking cap for this one: What happens to a registration certificate for a firearm reported lost, stolen or destroyed? Specifically with reference to FA s. 12 grandfathered prohibiteds, for which you must "continuously hold" a registrtaion certificate to qualify. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:50:00 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: western separation Barry Snow wrote: > > You'd be consigning the rest of us to eternal servitude by your > > attitude, and it bothers me to no end. > > Central Canada has already consigned the West to eternal servitude. And that is my fault, how, exactly? > > If you don't want to stay and fight for this country, then I suggest > > you go to one more to your liking. > > I believe that this is what the suggestion is all about. Making a > country more to their/our/my liking. Uh, no, it is about destroying an existing country, not going to another one. > Save Canada, Free the West: no Kyoto, no wheat board, no gun registration How can you save Canada, by destroying it? Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:50:42 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Editorial, Edmonton Sun This editorial largely echos my sentiments about Western Separation...except for the merging of the PC and the CA. http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSun/editorial.html EDMONTON SUN EDITORIAL April 02, 2003 The Grits gotta go That sure didn't take long. Provincial affairs columnist Neil Waugh predicted on the weekend that Premier Ralph Klein would go zero-for-three in his incredibly modest plan for getting Alberta a new deal in Confederation. And Ralph's already got one strike against him after federal Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Stephane Dion poured cold water on Klein's proposal for Ottawa to make Senate appointments from a list of provincial nominees. Dion said it was a "piecemeal" reform that could breed new activism amongst senators, who could threaten the business of government. So we think Waugh is right - Prime Minister Jean Chretien isn't going to be chomping at the bit to meet Klein's other two unbelievably reasonable requests, and that's to consult the provinces before signing international agreements and treaties (read: the Kyoto accord on greenhouse gas reduction) and hold regular meetings with the premiers where the provincial leaders set the agenda. Klein's little plan certainly wasn't "three strikes and we're out," as he emphatically disavowed separatism. And in his speech last Friday night, Klein made the critical distinction that we think too many would-be separatists miss: "Are Albertans frustrated with the Liberal government in Ottawa? Yes. Are Albertans frustrated with being Canadian? No." Quite so. Though separatist sentiment in Alberta has grown of late, we don't think for a second that most Albertans want to separate from Canada. We do think that most Albertans want to separate from the Liberals. To accomplish that, however, requires defeating a heavily entrenched Liberal government. And Klein has a very spotty record when it comes to his involvement in federal affairs. Though the Reform party under Preston Manning was working hard to bring the same kind of small-c conservative government to Ottawa that Alberta was accomplishing under the Ralph Revolution and to undo the damage the Liberals have done to this great country, Klein once dismissed the party as a "pimple on an elephant's butt." While Klein has endorsed some kind of merging of the Tories and the Canadian Alliance (the former Reform party), he has repeatedly refused to be the candidate to bring that about and shows no desire to ever run for federal office. Klein would, for instance, be a virtual shoe-in for the federal Tory leadership being vacated by Joe Clark, but he refuses to leave the comfy confines of his premier's office. We're glad that Ralph wants a better deal for Albertans. So do we. But the only way he's ever going to accomplish that is by taking a more activist and hands-on role in ridding Canada of this destructive Liberal regime. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 09:53:48 -0600 (CST) From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Lost, stolen or destroyed firearms At 09:37 AM 4/2/03 -0600, you wrote: > >All you legal-beagle wannabe types put on your thinking cap for this one: > >What happens to a registration certificate for a firearm reported lost, stolen >or destroyed? Specifically with reference to FA s. 12 grandfathered >prohibiteds, for which you must "continuously hold" a registrtaion certificate >to qualify. You continue to "hold the registration certificate". The gun, even though stolen and not in your possession is still registered to you. You keep your grandfathered status. If you surrender the registration certificate to the police then you no longer "hold" it, you may lose your status... If the gun registry records indicate you hold a registration certificate, you keep your status, you don't have to be in possession of the gun. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:21:13 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Ramsey Subject: vote In V5#938: "I HAVE voted Liberal since the Pierre Trudeau era, but due to this PM's decision not to support our "brothers" to the south in their efforts to oust Saddam, I will never vote Liberal again. The problem is, who do I vote for? There are no comfortable alternatives." Four Western provinces and a growing number of Ontarians think there is. Suck it up, hold your nose and vote Canadian Alliance. The poorest team put forth by any party would be better than the pack of rogues currently in power in Ottawa. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:41:14 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: western separation > > Save Canada, Free the West: no Kyoto, no wheat board, no gun registration One step at a time, eh. First, let's repeal the Firearms Act, Then we reform the Senate. Sincerely, Eduardo http://www.cufoa.ca "Never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:42:32 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #939 Bruce wrote: "You know, I'm starting to get as pissed off at Western separation as I am at Quebec separation. All it amounts to is taking your ball and going home, instead of staying and fighting for what's right. You'd be consigning the rest of us to eternal servitude by your attitude, and it bothers me to no end. If you don't want to stay and fight for this country, then I suggest you go to one more to your liking." My understanding (from reading the Western Separatist Papers for the last two years) is that there are many who feel all legal avenues for fundamental constitutional change under the existing regime have been exhausted. Without true representative democracy, the West will never get a fair shake in Canada. Where would they go? What country offers any more hope? Why should they leave their homes and livelihoods, forced out by the Old Boy Net in Ottawa, a thousand kilometers and more away? It doesn't really matter who's in power in Ottawa as long as the system continues to exist in its present form. Any new government will evolve to look just like the one it displaced. Since there is nowhere to go and no way to change the system from within, these people have chosen to separate politically, in an effort to creat a new and vibrant democracy that actually behaves as a democracy should. There is enough room and population in Canada for a half dozen small countries. With our resources we should be the richest land on earth, but our socialist system is preventing that. I'm not sure I can disagree with them, as much as true Western separation would hurt the rest of Canada. Perhaps this would result in a new "roll of the dice" so to speak. Flames expected... - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) President, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 3, RR 1, 4132 Sonora Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca My Bio: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/mikeack.htm SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:44:00 -0600 (CST) From: whornby@telusplanet.net Subject: Bruce Hutton Does anyone have an email address or phone numer for bruce hutton? Walter [Moderator's Note: You can try him at LUFA HQ Toll Free: 1-877-944-5832] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:45:01 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: MP slams Corrections http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-04-02-0017.html Wednesday, April 2, 2003 MP slams Corrections Says public entitled to more details on escaper's violent past By RAQUEL EXNER, EDMONTON SUN A federal politician criticized Corrections Canada yesterday for not releasing more information about an escaped offender's violent history. Canadian Alliance MP Randy White said the citizens of Hobbema had a right to know that minimum-security inmate Hugh Garlow had escaped once before, had killed a man while out on parole for manslaughter and was twice convicted of attempted murder for occurrences that happened while he was behind bars. A press release issued by Hobbema's minimum-security Pe Sakastew Centre on the weekend said Garlow was serving a life sentence for second-degree murder, but gave no more information. The offender was arrested by police yesterday. "This is so typical of Corrections Canada - to tell a half-truth is OK," said White. "This is a public organization and it should exercise full disclosure on these things. And they should explain (the entire background of an offender)." Corrections Canada spokesman Tim Krause said press releases about escapees are supposed to highlight an offender's major offence, which he said was done in this case. "He is classified as a minimum-security offender. So on one hand you can look at his criminal history and his convictions, which tells you one side of the story," Krause said. "But the other side of the story you don't get is all the programs an offender can participate in and how well he's doing with the correctional plan that has been identified for him." Garlow, 48, escaped from his escort around 2 a.m. Sunday while at a round dance in Hobbema, 87 km south of Edmonton. He was on an escorted temporary absence with three other offenders and one escort. Hobbema RCMP arrested him without incident at a home on the Louis Bull reserve about 12:30 p.m. yesterday. Garlow was given a five-year manslaughter sentence in 1976 after he and an accomplice robbed and killed a 65-year-old man in a Hamilton, Ont., hotel washroom the year before. In March 1976, Garlow escaped custody while at a dentist's office in Hamilton but was recaptured about 10 hours later. In 1982 while out on parole for the manslaughter charge, Garlow killed a former inmate after an argument broke out at a friend's apartment. Garlow - who was given a life sentence for second-degree murder in 1983 - hit the victim's head eight or nine times against a windowsill, then stabbed the dead body 48 times, according to media reports. He was then given a five-year sentence in 1987 and a nine-year sentence in 1993 - - both times for attempted murder related to incidents in jail. Many residents in Hobbema are distressed they didn't receive more information about Garlow's background when he escaped, said local Bruno Jamison. "He would've been caught a lot quicker if people knew he was that dangerous," Jamison said. "There's children running around all over the place." ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #940 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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