From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #950 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, April 5 2003 Volume 05 : Number 950 In this issue: Burnaby Man Wants Apology From RCMP RFC Ottawa: Response to Survey Soliciting funds Re: Burnaby Man Wants Apology From RCMP Re: Soliciting funds RFC Ottawa List Re: Killing Re: Killing Re: Powerful anti-gun lobby? Interpretations Re: Killing Donation Challenge story Re: Donation Challenge story ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:04:55 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Burnaby Man Wants Apology From RCMP http://www.burnabynow.com/041103/news/041103nn9.html The Burnaby Now Newspaper, Wed. April 2/2003: By Dan Hilborn, Burnaby NOW reporter Burnaby Man Wants Apology From RCMP A Burnaby senior is demanding an apology from the RCMP after he was arrested at gunpoint, dragged out of his home in handcuffs and taken to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation earlier this month. The incident was triggered when the 83 year old man's daughter, who lives in Kelowna, called 911 to complain her father was suffering from depression and was threatening to commit suicide. She was particularly concerned, as her father is an avid hunter, with firearms and ammunition inside his Burnaby home." RCMP spokesman, Phil Reid, said an apology will be issued if it is warranted.However, he noted police have to follow strict guidelines where an allegedly despondent person is known to possess a firearm. "From what I understand, I'd say yeah, protocols were followed. Mention the word 'Weapons', and our people will respond to that. It's a sign of the times." But the senior, who first moved to Burnaby 58 years ago, after serving in the Second WWar, said police completely over-reacted to a non-threatening situation. "If they need a Swat Team to take an 83-year old man to the hospital, then there's something wrong with this police force." Said the man; ''I could have gone to the hospital in my own vehicle and it would have cost them nothing." The man's firearms and ammo, all of which were legally registered, were returned the next day after the man successfully completed his psychiatric examination. 'It's a boss, bloody deal." He said; "I think I should have an apology. The neighbours who saw this probably think I'm a criminal, now." But friends of the senior say the incident was possibly sparked by an ongoing dispute over the family home, which was transferred inoto co-ownership between father and daughter last year, after the senior's wife passed away. 'I think the RCMP should charge the daughter with mischief," Said Fred Nicholls, a long-time member of the Sapperton Fish And Game club who lives in New Westminster, and is a frequent hunting partner with the senior. Her complaint tied up two RCMP officers for an entire day while they stood around Royal Columbian Hospital and two doctors came out and said he's as sane as you or I" When asked if she had concerns since her father passed the psychriatic tests and had his hunting rifles returned, the woman said; "He didn't pass. They only returned the weapons because I refused to put in a statement. I didn't want my dad to lose his right to hunt if he was o.k." dhilborn@burnabynow.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:05:41 -0600 (CST) From: Al Dorans Subject: RFC Ottawa: Response to Survey RFC Ottawa/FED UP Canada Protecting Canadian Freedoms ............................... Dear Firearms Owner, (My letter to Ed Tait, Victoria, B.C.) Dear Ed, Geez, you are fast! For me to send you, for you to respond to the RFC Ottawa Office Informal Survey, and for the message to be back in my hands, took all of 6 minutes! Think about that! That's what the entire RFC needs to be able to do. Have email capability that allows us lightning fast and inexpensive communication. Now there is a productive topic for firearms leaders to promote on the Digest. Professor Al Dorans Director, RFC Ottawa Chairman, FED UP Canada ............................................................................ REMINDER: Support the RFC Ottawa Office. Make cheques payable to: RFC Ottawa Office (In Trust). Send immediately to Charles Dillabough, CGA, RR #2 Chesterville, Ontario K0C 1H0. Your generosity is appreciated. All donations are warmly welcomed. Please circulate this to members on your email list. .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:32:44 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Hill Subject: Soliciting funds One of the men I work with came up to me today and said; "You will never guess who called me yesterday!" It turns out the Coalition for Gun control was on the line from Ontario, soliciting funds for what they said was a gun control program Canada could be very proud of ! I asked how short his answer was. He replied that it was short and he did not think they would call again. Something along the line of "Go ---- yourself!! I think he missed a great opportunity to keep them on the phone as long as possible explaining in great detail how this was working and how did they know etc.. Anything to drive their phone bill up while getting nothing in return but questions. He said he did not think of that and that his reply along with the resounding crash of the receiver hitting the cradle, made his wife jump from her chair in the next room. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:33:53 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: Burnaby Man Wants Apology From RCMP On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Bruce Mills wrote: > 'I think the RCMP should charge the daughter with mischief," Said > Fred Nicholls, a long-time member of the Sapperton Fish And Game > club who lives in New Westminster, and is a frequent hunting partner > with the senior. Her complaint tied up two RCMP officers for an > entire day while they stood around Royal Columbian Hospital and two > doctors came out and said he's as sane as you or I" Gosh, wasn't Wendy's billion dollar system supposed to protect *women* from men who have firearms? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:38:36 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Soliciting funds Jim Hill wrote: > It turns out the Coalition for Gun control was on the line from Ontario, > soliciting funds for what they said was a gun control program Canada > could be very proud of ! > Anything to drive their phone bill up while getting nothing in return > but questions. It would be interesting to acquire the phone number they are calling from, just to let people know. I get calls all the time that I don't answer, because they don't show who's calling on my Caller ID. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:16:26 -0600 (CST) From: axitec@shaw.ca Subject: RFC Ottawa List Just wanted to gloat a little, I noticed on the RFC Ottawa list update # 5, provided by Prof Al Dorans, twenty five of the names on the list are from BC, Seventeen are from Alberta, Six are from Saskatchewan, Three are from Manitoba, Forty one are from Ontario, Three are from Quebec, Then we have Five from Nova Scotia, and one from New Brunswick. So thus far, BC is second on the list, (congratulations Ontario Shooters) and c'mon BC shooters lets get more BC names up there. As for the other provinces on the list, catch us if you can ( tongue out, blowing rasberries) As for those provinces not yet on the list, Shame on you for being tardy, please join us, even if your contribution is only ten dollars, it will help. What ever province you are in, it's time to climb down off that fence and get involved. Do it for your club, or your childrens future, or be selfish, do it for yourself, but dammit, do it, or you won't even have the right to complain when they take your guns away. Right now, what, is the risk? If the RFC Ottawa does not go forward, you'll get your money back, and if it does, you'll get the benefit of it working for you! To all of you out there, My name is on the list, where's yours? I'm standing up to be counted, and I've put my money where my mouth is. How about you? Gerry Kirkham, Powell River BC. It's Our Freedom That Keeps Us Safe, Not Our Safety That Keeps Us Free! REMINDER: Support the RFC Ottawa Office. Make cheques payable to: RFC Ottawa Office (In Trust). Send immediatly to Charles Dillabough, CGA, RR #2 Chesterville, Ontario K0C 1H0. Your generosity is appreciated, Thankyou. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:17:27 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Re: Killing Rae Baker wrote: > Man Kills everything................Including himself. > > Ever thought that a hunter is a killer, also a fisherman., and we call > them sportsmen. You're absolutely right, Rae. But then, we are ALL killers - including the "morally superior" vegans. The difference is that hunters and fishermen know they kill - while vegans and others like to pretend they don't. It is practically physically impossible to exist on this earth without being consumptive of wildlife in one way or another. Winter range turned into agriculture, fawns killed by agricultural machinery, displaced bears killed by bigger bears, winter range flooded for hydroelectric power to run our computers and monitors, etc and so forth. The difference is, of course, that hunters and fishermen do give the game and fish they pursue a chance. The steak served at The Keg last night never had a chance, nor the fawn killed by irrigation equipment growing beans for vegans. I will apologize for being a hunter and fishermen to the first person who can show me they live their life absolutely non consumptive of other life. To the rest, I have only two words... Sanctimonious bastard! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:18:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert P." Subject: Re: Killing Boy oh boy we need to get out more. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" To: Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Killing > > "Robert P." wrote: > > > > I don't know about anyone else but as far as I can tell any creature which > > consumes organic matter of any sort is a killer. > > > > SAVE THE LETTUCE > > Innocent though they are > > Rudely ripped from the ground > > Never a chance to defend themselves > > :) > > TITLE: Carrot Juice Is Murder > ARTIST: Arrogant Worms ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:18:51 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert P." Subject: Re: Powerful anti-gun lobby? Wendy and the Coalition for Gun Control are so influential because like most oportunists they prey on fear. The best and easiest way to control is through fear mongering. Checking out history proves this. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:23:55 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Interpretations Ed Tait was kind enough to share some of Chairman Jim's philosphy from his Little Red Book. While there is some truth in it (after all, even a blind pig finds the odd acorn), it is obviously a document in dire need of interpretation... And Jim... we know you monitor the Digest under a variety of email aliases, so please feel free to forward any corrections to me... Jim Hinter wrote: > Subject: [NFALawClass] Simple Rules and Thoughts on Politics ... > > > 1. Those who do not get involved in the political process will be > ruled by those who do. Not necessarily. They may get involved in the political process - only to be suborned by those who ignore the political process. Like the NFA officers of assorted stripes who found themselves being ruled by Chairman Jim and Devious Dave - one whose mandate as President had expired, the other who didn't hold a position to begin with, and neither showing any indication to hold the court ordered/bylaw mandated election on the positions they claim. > 2. Those who complain the loudest, and the most, often are those who > do the least. Hmmm... that could mean a couple of things in JimSpin. It COULD be an expression of annoyance at those who persist in pointing out Chairman Jim's corruption, dishonesty, and lack of any ethics or morals (with an implicit plea that he really wishes we'd all just forget about it and go back to sleep). Funnily enough, when somebody says or does something Jim doesn't like, they're usually the recipient of a whining, bitching email of complaint soon thereafter. Ain't that right Jim - I still got the ones you sent me! No answers, just lots of bitching. > 3. For $10 a person, the political power open to you is quite > startling. Yeah right... And $30 will supposedly give you a contribution to the fight against the Firearms Act. But what it really buys is $23 towards a "monthly magazine" that was only published FIVE times last year (unknown amount of which pays Jim's buddy's salary), an illegal salary for Chairman Jim, funding an unathorized Jeep for Jim to drive, and an undetermined amount towards "expense accounts" (ie gopher hunting, travelling to take part in shooting events, etc). There is a message to that, of course. Like the NFA (or perhaps more accurately the NFA is like the Liberal Party), you can put in your bucks to buy a chunk of political action. That's the theory... but then reality rears its' ugly head. The NFA under Chairman Jim hold an election so you can vote for who gets to be President - while Chairman Jean will let you vote, but gets to decide WHO you get to vote for. Chairman Jim and Chairman Jean... Same political corruption; different makeup is all. > As a firearm owner, you have a "vested interest" in being political. You also have a vested interest in ensuring that the organizations that claim to represent you aren't in fact nothing more than life support systems for political parasites. In both cases, the theory of making change is one thing; the reality of political corruption is quite another. > Sadly, a mere 3 percent of people are actually involved in the > process in Canada. > > If you have even wondered why the quality of our government is what > it is, think of how small that pool is. Three people out of a hundred > are the "gene pool" where people like Copps, Rock and Chrietien crawl > out. Given that the current dictators of the NFA run that organization in a manner and philosophy remarkably similar to the federal Liberals, it appears that the petty, corrupt dictators running both organizations came from exactly the same gene pool. And somebody obviously defecated in it while they were developing, because they're both full of .... Why do only a tiny minority actually get involved either in firearms groups or politics. Because most people realize very quickly that their best efforts cannot overcome organized corruption on the part of political parasites. Criminologists term it "anomie" after work done by Emile Durkheim. > Those who believe that the Canadian Alliance is "stalled" and are > admitting defeat are either unwilling to work for what they really > believe in, or they have given up. Hmmmm... is this the resurrection of NFA Plan A? You know: "AFTER the next federal election, when the Reform Party is the government the Firearms Act will be repealed". Jesus... I at least hope there's a "Plan B" THIS time around... > In speaking to people across CANADA every day, I hear more messages > of hope than of defeat. Ah yes... and Jean Chretien has his homeless friend that he consults with regularly as well. > If you are feeling that we have no hope, then it is time that you > either changed your viewpoint, or perhaps your "crowd"... you have > been infected with negativism. Or the victim of corruption on the part of your "leaders" one too many times, perhaps... classic signs of anomie... > In Edmonton, in the post office we use, and our bank, as NFA > President, I am organizing the staff for shooting days. > > Think of that for a moment. A firing squad? I love the thought... No wait... it's a new form of competition where one person stands on one side of a wall and another plays around with a handgun on the other, shooting holes in the wall and then running for the toothpaste... How is it scored, Jim? > Have you thought of making friends and then taking the people you do "Making friends"... now there's an original concept from you, Jim... > If you are the stereo-typical "angry old man", I would bet that No, most of us are just sterotypically angry at the unending corruption. You don't have to be old to get angry at that, Chairman Jim. Betrayal has that effect on people. > Check your attitude. With you around, how about I put my hand on my back pocket and check my wallet instead? > Are you doing things to show yourself as a true patriot and real > force for positive change for the shooting community. Absolutely, Chairman Jim. I'm doing what I can to help get rid of you - you're an embarrassment to firearms owners and your ethics (or lack thereof) is a stain on us all. Getting rid of you and Devious Dave is the best thing that could happen for us. Perhaps, if we get rid of you, what is left of the NFA organization and its' funds (you haven't spent ALL the money in the Billboard Campaign fund, have you) can be put to better use than being a life support system for a political parasite. > Jim Hinter > National President "National President"??? Your term of office ran out last summer, Chairman Jim; when was the election? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 07:25:19 -0600 (CST) From: "Yannis Marine" Subject: Re: Killing Rick wrote > But then, we are ALL killers - including the "morally superior" vegans. The > difference is that hunters and fishermen know they kill - while vegans and > others like to pretend they don't. With all due respect permit me humbly to disagree with you. Yanni Take your boaters exam online at www.yannismarine.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:08:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Thacker" Subject: Donation Challenge story OK guys if I can do it and get this sort of response imagine what you can do. Ed Tait baited and tricked me into doing something I had no intention of doing; becoming one of those guys who publicly committed to raising 1000 dollars for the RFC. Now let me be clear, I read the CFD regularly and saw that the call had gone out for such people but the easy way for me was to donate myself (a substantial amount) and expect everyone else to do the same. Well Ed (who I only know via this medium) wanted us all to do more, and so there I was committing to be number 136 I think it was. Well once into it I assumed I would have to foot most of it as I was not good at soliciting money from friends and acquaintances, and was trying to see how the hell I could come up with 8-900 dollars in about 6 weeks as I was sure if I was able to raise 1-200 dollars I would be ecstatic. An interesting thing happened. Only one donation was offered. About what I expected. Then I sent out a reminder showing everyone that one of us had bellied up to the bar, where were they...... Then I got two more smaller amounts, but still donations. I was in deep trouble because this was still not that much of the 1000 dollars. I sent another reminder after getting the two new donations saying here are two more of us, have you forgotten. Next I got an email from one of the younger guys asking more about the RFC, and indicating that he had not sent money yet because he was beating the drum at work to try and get some more before sending in his donation. He then told me that another of the guys on my list had called him and agreed to match what this guy did, and also agreed to beat the drum at work. I then got a third guy doing the same. I don'ts know if I will get the whole 1000 from all these guys I have solicited, but it is clear that once prodded enough they do see that they must help. After hearing that one of them was raising money to help I sent him a thank you. He responded saying "I should be thanking you, as you got off your ass and are doing something that can help instead of just complaining like me and my buddies." The moral here is that there are a lot of these guys out there who will help if we get to them. If not for Ed, I would have never done this. Now I am glad I did because I not only got some people to donate who had never heard of the RFC, but just as important I got them involved in the RFC and hopefully actively thinking of the issue. If I had been rich enough I would have just paid the 1000 and got Ed off my back. But this is so much more valuable. Getting 10 dollars out of someone is only a part of it. Getting them interested in what is happening with that 10 dollars is where the real values lies. I plan to get the email address from everyone that donates and give them to Al so they will be on the list of updates and be involved at a much higher level than just giving money. So to make a long story even longer, become one of the 1000 dollar fund raisers, if I can do it anyone can. And as I have pointed out, it does more than provide money, it gets involvement which ultimately is the most important part. Thanks Ed for your tenacity in this area..... to all of the digest readers: Don't let Ed down, actually don't let all of us including yourself down, get more involved by becoming number..........????? Lets get this done. James W. Thacker, Ph.D. Professor Odette School of Business Windsor, Ontario N9C 3P4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 08:35:05 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Donation Challenge story Jim Thacker wrote: > The moral here is that there are a lot of these guys out there who will > help if we get to them. If not for Ed, I would have never done this. Now I > am glad I did because I not only got some people to donate who had never > heard of the RFC, but just as important I got them involved in the RFC and > hopefully actively thinking of the issue. If I had been rich enough I would > have just paid the 1000 and got Ed off my back. But this is so much more > valuable. Getting 10 dollars out of someone is only a part of it. Getting > them interested in what is happening with that 10 dollars is where the real > values lies. I plan to get the email address from everyone that donates and > give them to Al so they will be on the list of updates and be involved at a > much higher level than just giving money. > > So to make a long story even longer, become one of the 1000 dollar fund > raisers, if I can do it anyone can. And as I have pointed out, it does more > than provide money, it gets involvement which ultimately is the most > important part. Thanks Ed for your tenacity in this area..... to all of the > digest readers: Don't let Ed down, actually don't let all of us including > yourself down, get more involved by becoming number..........????? Lets get > this done. > > James W. Thacker, Ph.D. > Professor > Odette School of Business > Windsor, Ontario N9C 3P4 This is an important story, because it perfectly illustrates what I have been saying for some time: each and every one of us who reads this Digest *must* become a focal point of firearms activism in their community. Not just for fund raising, but for other activities as well - letter writing, meetings, workshops, rallies, political action, etc. etc. etc. This is no longer a situation where you can just send some money to someone and hope they win the fight for you. This is nothing less than a fight for your individual rights and freedom - and this is not a fight you can defer to someone else. While you are soliciting funds to support our cause, try to get people signed up with the CFD (or some other pro-gun rights forum), so they may stay informed. It may sound trite, but knowledge *is* power, and we have seen all to often important information come out at the last minute, or even after the fact. It does no good to rally the troops the day after the battle. Each of us needs to recruit more people, and each of *those* people need to recruit some more. Join a political party, and get involved with the local riding association. Make sure that they are on-board with pro-firearms rights - make it a priority for them. Make sure they select a pro-firearms rights candidate to run in the next election (I predict summer of 2004, 4 to 6 months after Paul Martin is crowned leader of the Lieberals). As Jim said, if he can do it, you can do it - SO DO IT! Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #950 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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