From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #984 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, April 17 2003 Volume 05 : Number 984 In this issue: waiting period ATT? Re: waiting period ATT? Firearms instructor victimized ANOTHER GUN REGISTRY PROMOTION! Column: WHAT IF OUR POLITICIANS REALLY HAD TO FIGHT? Re: bear gall bladders Police less accountable Re: "Health pros support gun control" Re: "Health pros support gun control" Fw: A letter to George Bush....................... Fw: winchester 30-30 Re: bear gall bladders Re: bear gall bladders Assistance Please Re: bear gall bladders Revoke Moore's Oscar! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:43:33 -0600 (CST) From: sparkplug Subject: waiting period ATT? Howdy; Just called for an ATT short term to move a firearm. Ontario now has a 48 hour waiting period in place for the issue of an ATT? Is this legal? Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:35:15 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: waiting period ATT? sparkplug wrote: > > Howdy; > Just called for an ATT short term to move a firearm. Ontario now has a > 48 hour waiting period in place for the issue of an ATT? Is this legal? > Rick In a word, no - not if it is a blanket policy. The Firearms Act does not give the CPFO the authority to make such a policy. As a license issuing "tribunal" endowed with "discretion", the CPFO cannot make a universal policy that would impede his ability to apply his discretion to each application on a case by case basis. Each application must be judged on the merits of that application, and any policy that places restrictions on that transcends his authority and borders on "Lawmaking" which is the purview of Parliament. RE JACKSON et al. AND BEAUDRY, 7 D.L.R. (3d) 737 Saskatchewan Queen's Bench Bence, C.J.Q.B. September 17, 1969 http://www.geocities.com/c_f_r_a_n/cases/jackson_and_beaudry.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:01:13 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Firearms instructor victimized To: Toronto Star Cc: Toronto GlobeAndMail , Toronto Sun Thursday's Toronto Star article titled "Gun case 'wrecked' life" underscores the misdirected focus of the federal Firearms Act. Due to a petty, unrelated confrontation with transit cops Michael Brassard has been convicted of a variety of bogus firearms offenses, had his legally aquired property confiscated and his reputation further tarnished by the media. The fact that his firearms collection was in "a second-floor closet that was locked but was not secure" tells me that he was illegally convicted. For long guns, the minimal requirement was met. The regulation clearly states that the room be "securely locked and constructed so that it cannot be readily opened or broken into". It appears to me that reasonable measures were taken, that the guns weren't left laying around and that the police definition of "secure" is purely arbitrary. The police position that "an intruder into the house would have had easy and ready access to a substantial amount of ammunition and weapons" is purely speculative and points more to their inability to prevent crime, the public's willingness to accept this and a growing tendancy to put the onus on victims instead of aggressively punishing those who steal guns, traffic in illegal guns and use guns to commit crimes. At the same time, the maze of technical regulations facing legitimate gun owners face has done nothing to solve Toronto's growing gun problem. Carrying a registered, loaded handgun home inside a zippered bag may be technically illegal but considering Mr. Brassard's previous record versus a growing thrend among Toronto criminals to use guns against their victims, you'd have to wonder what the problem might be. Newspapers like to refer to legally owned target rifles as "weapons" and legally owned collections of these as "caches". The intent is obvious and the results are predictable. But Michael Brassard wasn't entirely right when he observed that "the media certainly has had their day with me." The police, the prosecutors and the government all had their turn. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:35:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: ANOTHER GUN REGISTRY PROMOTION! 2002 Biography J.A.J. (Mike) Buisson Assistant Commissioner National Police Services http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/exec_bios/buisson_e.htm - - During his involvement with the Canadian Firearms program, Mike pursued continuous process improvement and was a noted trend-setter in the development of new systems and products. These efforts have resulted in the creation of the world's most comprehensive firearms encyclopedia and the development of a prototype for the International Weapons & Explosives Tracking System which will be used by Interpol member countries. 1999 J.A.J. Buisson, Superintendent Registrar Canadian Firearms Registry http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pdfs/cfr99.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:39:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Column: WHAT IF OUR POLITICIANS REALLY HAD TO FIGHT? PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2003.04.17 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: 16 BYLINE: LEWIS MACKENZIE COLUMN: Guest Column - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT IF OUR POLITICIANS REALLY HAD TO FIGHT? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A mere few days into the war, the Iraqi leadership announced that 5,000 members of Saddam Hussein's ruling Baath party would be armed, and, if necessary, fight to the death in the defence of their capital, Baghdad. At the time I couldn't help but think of how our Canadian political parties would have reacted in similar circumstances. What if our American neighbours, tired of our emerging pacifist nature, decided to "help" us by occupying Ottawa? Just imagine the initial reports on Newsworld: Two columns of U.S. armour were reported moving north of Highway 401 today, straddling the new Highway 416, pointed like a dagger at the belly of Ottawa. Some 5,000 Canadian soldiers from Petawawa were monitoring the American advance from their positions some 50 km south of the capital. However, absent a UN resolution authorizing the use of force, they were obliged to watch and withdraw in the direction of Ottawa. With Canada's capital threatened, it was decided to follow the Baath party's example and arm the political parties of Canada. Due to the urgency of the situation, the decision was made to arm MPs and deploy them as quickly as possible to a defensive line in the area of the Hunt Club West/416 junction in Nepean. The local Lone Star ranch complex would provide catering. The Director of the Canadian War Museum gathered all the available vintage small arms from his warehouses in the city and delivered them to the court yard in front of his museum on Sussex Drive. The Solicitor General was ordered to register these weapons and complete a criminal check on each MP. Each party was assigned its own transport. Buses were lined up on Sussex Drive in front of the War Museum in reverse order of their party's standings in the House. Thus, standing beside the lead bus, Joe Clark, brandishing a WW II bren gun, ordered his 13 MPs to "mount up!" A few of his colleagues appeared to resent his authoritative manner and indicated that they still hadn't made up their minds if fighting was a good idea. There was some discussion about whether to elect a new leader on the spot. The 14 NDP members assigned to the next bus upped their number to 15 by sneaking their new, unelected leader, Jack Layton, on board, as driver. While each of the NDP MPs was issued a weapon, they refused to accept any ammunition. Two large white flags were mounted on a couple of crude flag poles which were duct-taped to the front and rear of the bus. The next bus in line carrying the 34 Bloc Quebecois members immediately backed into the Alliance bus to their rear as their MPs tried to reverse course and abandon the convoy. There was considerable speculation regarding their intention. Were they trying to flee across the Ottawa river to Hull or, were they heading south to link up with the U.S. forces in accordance with some previously arranged deal? Watching this unfolding debacle from the area of their two busses were the 63 MPs of the Canadian Alliance. Their leader, Stephen Harper, sporting a WW II general's uniform organized his members into two platoons, complete with designated commanders. His troops were lined up in three ranks awaiting the word to load. In the meantime they practised basic drill movements with considerable precision. The party's two designated snipers, Stockwell Day and Deborah Grey, were honing their skills by shooting pigeons on the building across the street. At last count, Gray was up by two. Meanwhile, the three buses assigned to the Liberal party were completely empty. Soon after picking up their weapons - the background check for several of them took longer than expected - the 169 members divided into two distinct groups at street level, on opposite sides of the leading bus. No one knows who fired the first shot, but what followed was not pretty. When the smoke and dust finally cleared, Paul Martin, resplendent in his vintage Field Marshal's uniform, was seen congratulating the individual MPs under his command. The Prime Minister was nowhere to be found. At this point Jim Munson, the PM's director of communications, was observed running towards the buses from the direction of Parliament Hill. Out of breath, he announced that the lead U.S. units had reached the Hill and following promises of enhanced MP pensions, the Sergeant-at-Arms had surrendered on behalf of Canada. As the MPs turned to face west, their eyes rested on the Stars and Stripes slowly being raised above the Peace Tower. Martin approached Harper and asked if he would be prepared to lead a counter attack, but most Liberals preferred to remain in reserve until they figured out who their general actually was. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:20:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Ron White" Subject: Re: bear gall bladders >From: Jim Powlesland >Subject: Re: bear gall bladders > On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Ron White wrote: > Would the bears not be better served by supplying the Asian market >with legally acquired bear galls thereby increasing supply and >driving down the price and killing the poachers trade. >Nonsense. Bear gall bladders are equivalent of Viagra in Asia. >You could shoot every bear in North America and it still would not >supply the demand. I clipped this from POACHING OF BLACK BEARS IN CANADA.htm The gall bladder is the bear's most valuable part. In traditional Chinese medicine, bile and galls are used as remedies for an array of illnesses such as fever, swelling, cancers, burns, internal bleeding, ulcers, pain, heart and liver disease. A known compound found in bile, ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA), has been used in western medicine to treat liver disorders. A gall can command up to $10,000 in east Asia. Its price is about 20 times the street price of cocaine per ounce. Globally, the market in bear parts is estimated at $2 billion. I saw no reference to aphrodisiacs in the list of treatments that bear galls are used for. Another web search confirmed that the average income in China is under $400 US annually. That would indicate that a single bear gall must treat many people or only the very rich could afford treatment. I dissagree that our legally harvested bear parts could not satisfy the market but who knows for sure, not me and not you. Supplying the trade with legal bear galls may not be a panacea for the bear but it would buy some time to re-educate all of Asia, which incidentally is the only thing that can reduce the demand and ultimately save the bear. The road that we have embarked on has resulted in the high prices that we see and the high prices assure a steady supply of poachers willing to take the risks associated with poaching to make a fast buck. That said, I rather liked the suggestion that Rick made ;>)) --------- >The one suggestion I have heard that might make a difference is slipping a >little strychnine in with the poached animal parts. Let those who are willing >to see species go extinct to satisfy their personal tastes play a little Russian >roulette... When I made my original post I had no idea what a can of worms this was, now that I see how controversial it is I think I shall drop it like a hot potato. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:20:55 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Police less accountable Thursday's Montreal Gazette article describing the theft of a Longueuil police officer's 9mm handgun doesn't have any of the hype that usually surrounds the theft of a civilian handgun. Not once was the word "weapon" used and we weren't treated to the usual technical jargon like "high powered", "automatic" and "popular among criminals". You'd think that reporters find such a story mundane because it's "just a police gun". And where's the police commentary? Usually you feature a police spokesman wringing his hands about how awful it is to see such high-powered weaponry loose in the community. If a loaded handgun was stolen from some poor schmuck driving home from the shooting range you can be darn sure that a variety of charges under the Firearms Act would be laid by the police. So what gives? If anything, their more frequent access to firearms should make the police more, not less, accountable. Or is there a double standard here? Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:15:04 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: "Health pros support gun control" On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, J.M. Bell wrote: > Rick Lowe's retort to Dr. Robert Cushman's mush-headed support of > Cukier should settle the doctor's hash. It was an artful deflation > of the medico's arrogant pronouncements outside his field of > expertise. Now Dr. Cushman can get back to pushing pills, lancing > boils, treating hemmorhoids, or whatever else he is competent to do. I wouldn't be surprised if Robert Cushman, MD has never seen a gunshot wound in Ottawa, let alone treated one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:35:08 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: "Health pros support gun control" Jim Powlesland wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, J.M. Bell wrote: > > > Rick Lowe's retort to Dr. Robert Cushman's mush-headed support of > > Cukier should settle the doctor's hash. It was an artful deflation > > of the medico's arrogant pronouncements outside his field of > > expertise. Now Dr. Cushman can get back to pushing pills, lancing > > boils, treating hemmorhoids, or whatever else he is competent to do. > > I wouldn't be surprised if Robert Cushman, MD has never seen a gunshot > wound in Ottawa, let alone treated one. You're probably right. A quick Google check on "Dr. Robert Cusham" coughed up this bio: http://www.cctc.ca/cctcweb.nsf/MAINframeset?OpenFrameSet&Frame=BodyFrame&Src=http://www.cctc.ca/CCTCweb.nsf/16a7a46a13d27dd4852569ac007ec6f9/a14ecb9744d7d06485256bf7006a627d?OpenDocument The Canadian Council for Tobacco Control Vice President Dr. Robert Cushman Dr. Robert Cushman is Medical Officer of Health for the City of Ottawa. Prior to becoming Medical Officer of Health, Dr. Cushman served as Director of Public Health in Western Quebec and as a public health physician in Peel and Ottawa-Carleton. He also practiced family medicine at Somerset West Community Health Centre and worked in the emergency room at CHEO. Dr. Cushman has a wide range of experiences as a public health consultant, university instructor and author of numerous articles in medical journals. Dr. Cushman's leadership was instrumental in bringing 100% smoke-free workplaces and public places to the City of Ottawa in 2001. Due to his commitment to this important public-health issue, Ottawa now has one of the most progressive smoke-free regulations in the world. He was named Non-Smoker of the Year in 2001 by the Non-Smokers' Rights Association, and was awarded Community Leader of the Year in 2002 for his contribution to tobacco control. Dr. Cushman's primary public health interests are tobacco, child health and injury prevention. He was also one of the many anti-gun lobby types who called the press conference in February: http://www.newswire.ca/releases/February2003/26/c4467.html No doubt he and Heidi Rathjen are good buddies. It is no coincidence that the anti-tobbacco and anti-gun crowds are in bed together, they both have similar aims, and similar methods. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:23:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Rick Young & Carol MacLennan-Young" Subject: Fw: A letter to George Bush....................... I think someone sent me this as a joke. However, I'm having problems trying to discover the humour...just sounds like a damn fine idea to me! Rick - ----- Original Message ----- Dear Mr.Bush: I couldn't help but notice, what with all the press coverage, that you are in the business of ridding countries of dictators. I am a Canadian and we are in desperate need of help so I am writing to ask for your assistance. Our dilemma here is that our country is being run (or should that read ruined) by a regime headed by a dictator named Jean Chretien (you may have heard of him). Some of us would really like to be rid of him and believe you are our only hope. My inside informers tell me that we are vulnerable at this time and so I would suggest that the time for action is now. Both of the ships in our Navy are over in the Gulf somewhere. We had a couple of helicopters left after the last one crashed but I just heard that the second one is being shipped over to the Gulf for storage on the deck of one of our ships. That leaves us only one helicopter that still flies. We have about 8 fighter jets flying around over Afghanistan somewhere which leaves about 4 to protect the country but they are probably over in storage at CFB in Cold Lake, Alberta and if you attack by surprise will never make to Ottawa in time........ 2500 of our 5000 or so troops are doing Peace Keeping Missions somewhere so will not be a problem. We can't afford a defense system because we need to pour billions of dollars into registering guns so mostly, unless of course you are a criminal, we civilians are defenseless. Be aware that Alberta may be more dangerous because there are a lot of rednecks in that area that do own guns which the government doesn't know about, but if you drop leaflets and let them know what you are up to they will be more than happy to join the uprising to oust this dictator. This is how I would suggest that your defense department plan this coup. The next time Parliament is in session I believe that you could just lob a heat seeking cruise missile at the Parliament buildings. Because all the hot air and fermenting bullshit is concentrated in the area it will undoubtedly explode directly in the center of the House of Commons and kill the whole darned works. Send in about 5000 troops to quash the subsequent uprising in the eastern regions and you can have the whole operation mopped up in I figure about 3 days...then appoint a new king (like King Ralph for instance) from out west and we will see how well the country can run. Thank you in advance for your assistance in this most urgent matter. A True CANADIAN!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:22:38 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Hill Subject: Fw: winchester 30-30 To anyone who is interested, I have a friend with two Winchesters for sale. They are both new , never fired or had a round in them. They are - Little Big Horn - and - Klondike Gold Rush models both still in the boxes. Contact me off digest at my email for further details. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS jjhill@accesswave.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:23:19 -0600 (CST) From: JP Poulin Subject: Re: bear gall bladders On 4/17/2003 13:20 -0500, Ron White wrote: > I clipped this from POACHING OF BLACK BEARS IN CANADA.htm > The gall bladder is the bear's most valuable part. In traditional Chinese > medicine, bile and galls are used as remedies for an array of illnesses such > as fever, swelling, cancers, burns, internal bleeding, ulcers, pain, heart > and liver disease. A known compound found in bile, ursodeoxycholic acid > (UDCA), has been used in western medicine to treat liver disorders. A gall > can command up to $10,000 in east Asia. Its price is about 20 times the > street price of cocaine per ounce. Globally, the market in bear parts is > estimated at $2 billion. Note to self. Keep gall bladder when the next Black Bear gets it in hunting season. Beaucoup d'argent! ;-] JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:31:32 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: bear gall bladders JP Poulin wrote: > Note to self. Keep gall bladder when the next Black Bear gets it in hunting > season. Beaucoup d'argent! ;-] > > JP Poulin Illegal, even if it is your legally harvested bear. I guess you're just supposed to leave it in the gut pile, but for my own piece of mind, I would slice it up before disposing of it. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:54:44 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Hill Subject: Assistance Please Bruce Mills wrote: *snip* Hopefully, he will have a positive effect on his teacher and classmates. If not, I hope he shames his teacher for being so dismissive. The teacher acted like a bully, and bullies have no place in our schools. *Snip* I spoke to the young fellows Dad tonight and he clarified something for me. Originally I was told by him that it was more confrontational that it actually was. This took place back in Nov. some time and I got the rushed version from him that I passed on to you. I find out tonight that the conversation in class was about government and some of it's stupid laws and decisions. Jr. pointed out the stupidity of the gun registry and the teacher said it saves lives. Junior came back with better funding to Cancer research would save more lives. The teacher disagreed. Apparently now the teacher is on Junior's side on this issue, and my guess is that after he shot off in class he happened to mention it to his wife who is an RCMP officer. It would appear that she educated him on the uselessness of the registry. Thanks again all His Dad tells me Junior is busily poring over all the data provided by you. I am going to try to get a copy of the completed paper if I can and will post it here if he will allow me. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:24:03 -0600 (CST) From: JP Poulin Subject: Re: bear gall bladders On 4/17/2003 18:31 -0500, Bruce Mills wrote: > JP Poulin wrote: >> Note to self. Keep gall bladder when the next Black Bear gets it in hunting >> season. Beaucoup d'argent! ;-] >> >> JP Poulin > Illegal, even if it is your legally harvested bear. I guess you're just > supposed to leave it in the gut pile, but for my own piece of mind, I would > slice it up before disposing of it. Still, mighty tempting, eh? I never would've imagined that one little gall bladder could bring in so much. I can believe that many of those have found their way via Canada to Asia and probably still will for many years. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:38:09 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Revoke Moore's Oscar! http://www.revoketheoscar.com/ http://www.oscars.org/75academyawards/rules/rule12.html Rule Twelve Special Rules for The Documentary Awards I. Definition 1. An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released non-fiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V5 #984 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., P.O. Box 1342, Saskatoon SK S7K 3N9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered in any way.