From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #124 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, June 3 2003 Volume 06 : Number 124 In this issue: Re: Con Game RE: 'More' power RE: Paying and Public displays Local gun club hopes to move within city by July 2005 Re: Editor (But an unfunny one.) Opposition Re: What will we pay? Re: Opposition Laws.....and why EASTER REFUSES TO EXTEND REGISTRATION DEADLINE CFD spreading misinformation re: PCs & NAFTA fedupcanada.org: It's expired. Language Warning !! NOVA SCOTIA TO JOIN LIST OF PROVICES REFUSING TO PROSECUTE Terror Web site sells Canadian firearms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:55:27 -0600 (CST) From: B Farion Subject: Re: Con Game > WUNDERBAR! NOW a drug dealer will be able to stand outside your kid's > schoolyard with 25 joints in his pocket, 25 joints in his friend's pocket > (and the pockets of any number of his reputable pals) and face only a minor > fine for peddling drugs to kids. At the same time, Jean Chretien and his > buddies are spending $1 billion-plus on a gun registration system that > traces my shotgun but doesn't take guns out of the hands of illegal users, > and can't find the time to establish a sex offenders' registry. Does being a > member of the Liberal caucus actually turn your brain to jelly? > > Jim Lawrence > Wooler You should read a book called "Con Game: The truth about Canada's prisons" by Michael Harris. Get a paperback and carry it around. Lots of info to contradict doogooders and gun control bitches! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:42:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Jason Hayes" Subject: RE: 'More' power Lee Jasper wrote: > > The big ole 'public teat'. Wonder it we'd all be so 'independent' if we > needed expensive, life saving medical care, or precious end of life > palliative, hospice care, or had a youngster with a major disability > requiring round the clock care and supervision (for life) or were far > offshore, going down for the third time and couldn't convince the SAR > folks that you were a 'real' emergency? What no wallet and credit card? I know I would be a whole lot more 'independent' and find it odd that others couldn't be as well. How would your life be different if you didn't have to pay 50%+ taxes, but (say 5 - 10% instead)? Think you might be able to put a few of those $$'s into savings accounts that you controlled, instead of having the government tell you that it will be spent on something else that you don't want or need? Sure you wouldn't have all these public hospitals where you can be sent around back and forth for several hours between emergency rooms until you were dead (ask Vince Motta's parents how well the Canadian system works - can't ask Vince, he's dead from an asthma attack --- an asthma attack --- he got carted around to three Calgary hospitals, and finally out to High River, 30 to 40 minutes away, because there was no room for him). Will people fall through the cracks in an "independent" society? Of course. Do people fall through the cracks in our "just" and "benevolent" society? Of course. For those who question this, why (in our just and benevolent society) is there still a 'homeless crisis', wait lines in hospital emerg rooms, welfare recipients........on and on and on. Why don't we just target the right amount of funding and clean up these problems? Don't try to sell the line that government provision of these services is a panacea, cause it isn't. Fraternal orders, unions, churches, community groups, etc. all provided many of these services long before we started entrusting our lives and souls to Ottawa. They still do, although, to a much lesser extent now. They would certainly move in and pick up a lot of the slack. > I get just as upset with the inordinate amount of 'corporate' welfare. > One such Co's. Chairman of the Board earns over $52 mil per year. You > can bet that when he 'squeaks' gov't's come running, chequebook in hand. > (Many small business types bitch about this). In Ontario, it's only the > little people who are 'special interest' groups. It's been apparent for > a long time that until the RFC gets on the short 'donations' list, our > concerns will not be heard. Until that time, 'we' are just another > 'special interest' group wanting a bigger piece of the pie. Not in the same fashion as Wendy and her ilk, unless of course the RFCO started asking for government dollars. Right now, they are asking for (true) grass roots support. That is private individuals, businesses, and associations asking for ***after tax dollars***. Wendy and friends are taking your tax money to ensure that the government continues its attack on individual rights and freedoms. Re corporate welfare: It is every bit as reprehensible as individual welfare. Both require that the government holds a gun to your head as a means of taking tax dollars from you. For those who don't think they do this, or believe the "voluntary" aspect of the federal tax system, try "volunteering" to not pay your taxes some year and see how far you get. Regarding what CEO's earn - who cares? If I run a private business and make a legal contract with my employee to pay them $5 or $5 billion, that's my concern. If they are worth it to a private company, their salary is between the company and their employees. If that company is taking tax dollars from you, in the form of corporate welfare, then that is a different story. Get the corporate welfare stopped, by supporting a system that encourages 'independence' and individual freedom. - -------------------- Jason Hayes Principal - Hayes Holdings Consulting #1936 - 246 Stewart Green SW Calgary, AB, Canada T3H 3C8 hh@hayz.ws / www.hayz.ws - --------------------- When wise men disapprove, that's bad; when fools applaud, that's worse. A Spanish proverb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:01:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Al Muir" Subject: RE: Paying and Public displays > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:28:38 -0600 (CST) > From: Lee Jasper > Subject: Paying and public displays > > It was said on the CFD: > > Re: driving on the 400, 407 and 401 - guns in tow. > > >> I can. Have you seen anyone stopping me? > > Doubt if you've done it with all the other public display of hunting > paraphernalia - and during an OPP 'safe driving' blitz. I know folks who have > done the 'inspection' shakedown. > > We've got more cops in Tronna alone than the whole of NS. These are all urban > types too. Thicker than fleas on an ole huntin dawgs back. I have been invited up to Ontario for a deer hunt. After we get ignored on June 30/July 1 perhaps that trip will be required. Maybe you can recommend the place where I should fear most to tread. I can make it a point to be there. > > "Dance on the head of a pin" was a stillborn baby. > > For all the 'inter- agency' bashing that's gone on . . . the 'let's all dance on > the same pin' (and I prefer using the pointed end), if you've kept score on the > wins, losses and concessions - the RFC has made some significant gains. And here > we are at a prime Party Time juncture in the RFC's history , , , and are the > wires 'burning' with federal and provincial political activism? Obviously your interpretation and mine of 'significant' differ. > >> And if you are charged and convicted under the FA, will this bar > >> you from practicing your profession? > > > At some time we all have to ask ourselves about the importance of > > our beliefs or for the more religious, forsake our worldly goods. > > What are you giving up? To this point, nothing, at least in relation to what I am prepared to give up. Seems to me if we 'lose' our legal right to own > firearms, we haven't won anything. It is less of a loss and more of a giving it away. Law in not made in a court it is interpreted there or at least it is supposed to be that way. An unused law will have to do for now. Score one for Wendy and Co. I for one > do not have any desire to become another Carlos and Hurrell and set a > course for the S.C.C. plus lose the other benefits described. Do you > have the $150 to $250 thou it takes to fund a full-out, top drawer > assault to the S.C.C? (Of course that's 'if' we can actually get charged > under an offending section of the FA). I have previously stated that I will do whatever it takes. Al ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:02:23 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Local gun club hopes to move within city by July 2005 http://www.thebramptonguardian.com/br/news/story/1102158p-1314317c.html >From Brampton Guardian Friday, May 30th, 2003 Local gun club hopes to move within city by July 2005 After more than 10 years of negotiations, an agreement signed this week could see Brampton's controversial gun club close up shop in the north end of the city by July 2005. The agreement gives the Peel County Game and Fish Protection Association access to $1.1 million in a relocation fund set up with money from area developers. The deal was brokered after 10 years of negotiations among the club, developers in the area and the city. Ward 2 City Councillor Linda Jeffrey led the negotiations. The 400-member club has been looking for a new home for more than 10 years as subdivision development crowds closer to the site on the west side of Heart Lake Road north of Bovaird Drive. Noise from the club has prompted continual complaints from area residents. Also, a stray 9 mm bullet hit a man in the leg as he stood in his Langston Road driveway one kilometre away in 1992. Earlier negotiations led to the end of skeet shooting two years ago, but the group's outdoor pistol range continues to be used. The group hasn't found a site yet, but is hoping to stay in Brampton, according to the association's president. Bob Calvert said his membership might use the money to convert a remotely-located industrial unit into an indoor shooting range, and possibly move the outdoor activities to a property somewhere outside the city. "We would like to maintain our ties to the city," Calvert said. "We're senior citizens of Brampton." The club has been here for 55 years. Access to the money will allow the club to put an offer to buy on a new property. Under the deal signed this week, once an agreement to buy is in place and the money released, the city will be able to rescind the association's exemption from the municipal firearms bylaw that bans almost all use of firearms within city limits. That exemption would mean shooting at the club would have to stop at the end of June 2005. In addition to the $1.1 million, the club will also keep the money from the sale of the existing six hectare site. "We, as an association, realized a while ago that a move was necessary, and when Councillor Jeffrey came on the scene the process became much more positive. Through her determination the process continued even through tough negotiations," Calvert said. He said there were times he didn't believe a deal could ever be worked out. "We're looking forward to trying to find a new place," he said. "The pressures on us, of course. The timeframe is pretty tight." He said club members believe they can manage the move without interrupting activities. "Not as much as we can help it," Calvert said. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:16:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert P." Subject: Re: Editor (But an unfunny one.) Like all forms of registration it will not work. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" To: Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 2:11 PM Subject: Editor (But an unfunny one.) > > PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun > DATE: 2003.05.30 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: Editorial/Opinion > PAGE: 10 > COLUMN: Letters to the Editor > > > IF THE government were to put the amount of money used to register guns to > something a little more important like tracking sex offenders, maybe > children like Holly Jones would still be alive. Our SCTV-styled federal > government is a joke. > > Liam Morgan > > Editor (But an unfunny one.) > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:07:56 -0600 (CST) From: rae baker Subject: Opposition Until the two parties that are trying to do something (Alliance and the Conservatives)Get together and join forces as a coalition, they will be just trying. That will accomplish nothing. When will these people stop fighting amonst themselves and join to defeat this Present government. Can they be so blind as to not see that they are defeating themselves. Write to these fellows and jog them out of their small world and get them to combine and be a power. From Ontario they do not impress or look desireable. Sad state. How can we ever get this gun legislation defeated without them. They are letting us down. Example The conservatives are getting rid of the incompetatnt Joe Calrke and what do they do? They drag up Lying Brian Baloney. It is like looking deathe in the face. He is the most hated prime Minister we ever had. Are they trying to defeat themselves. Both groups seem determined to look undersireable. I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness. Rae Baker Burlington,Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:24:26 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: What will we pay? Lee Jasper wrote: > > I will not submit to licensing. I make that as a public statement, and > > I am willing to accept the consequences of my action. > > Only time will tell whether the S.C.C. agrees with any of the positions > taken by yourself, myself and the rest of the RFC. > > And if you are charged and convicted under the FA, will this bar you > from practicing your profession? I am afraid that you are missing the main point here. While I respect our Parliament, I will NOT submit to the violations of our Rights and Freedoms of the Firearms Act. Therefore I am attempting to get a case before the courts as the first step in having this unjust law repealed. While I respect our Supreme Court, if the highest court in Canada should rule against us, I will NOT submit to licensing. That is when the actual noncooperation begins. I will still refuse to surrender my Liberty, and I will accept the legal consequences of my actions. If the people of Canada want to put me into prison because I will not surrender my Liberty, losing my veterinary license will seem like small potatoes. Too bad that our Canadian war dead are buried on foreign soil. We desperately need to be reminded of what is meant by "sacrifice". Sincerely, Eduardo http://www.cufoa.ca "Never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:25:27 -0600 (CST) From: Don Webb Subject: Re: Opposition - --- rae baker wrote: > > Until the two parties that are trying to do > something (Alliance and the > Conservatives)Get together and join forces as a > coalition, they will be > just trying. That will accomplish nothing. When will > these people stop > fighting amonst themselves and join to defeat this > Present government. > It’s unfortunate a Devil Deal was brokered at the eleventh hour during the leadership race. The Orchard/MacKay partnership to dump NAFTA and assassinate a right wing movement to abort the vote splitting and haul in the corrupt Liberal regime are reality now. Orchard pulled off the trick of the century that guarantees the fraudulent Liberals another term. Is this what the PC Party wants, a trip down the political suicide road? It's sad to say the new PC leaders, Orchard/MacKay are also the undertakers. The Orchard manoeuver is the last nail in the PC coffin. I tore up my PC membership card and threw it in the garbage where the leftists in the PC Party threw NAFTA and Unite The Right! The Canadian Alliance Party is laughing all the way to the Polls. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:36:20 -0600 (CST) From: Ed Tait Subject: Laws.....and why The purpose of law is to prevent the strong always having their way. - -- Ovid, Fasti [5 A.D.] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:37:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: EASTER REFUSES TO EXTEND REGISTRATION DEADLINE House of Commons Debates June 2, 2003 ORAL QUESTIONS Unedited copy - not official until printed in Hansard * * * Mrs. Cheryl Gallant (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, last week the first of many charter challenges was launched against the gun registry. Courts will not begin to hear these challenges until the fall. However, the government has imposed an arbitrary registration deadline of June 30. Courts may rule that the registry violates the charter. Will the government extend the registration deadline until a court decision has been reached? Hon. Wayne Easter (Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the government on this side of the House has argued a number of times that we are trying to work with gun owners to have them understand that the intent of the system is not to penalize hunters and legitimate gun owners. The intent of the system is to make our streets safer. Specifically in answer to the member's question, no, the deadline will not be extended. Mrs. Cheryl Gallant (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the final deadline for registration is less than a month away. Almost 300,000 gun owners have not yet registered and over 300,000 gun owners have yet to re-register their handguns. The government has received letters of intent of registration from only a fraction of these. What is the government planning to do with half a million gun owners who are non-compliant come July 1? Hon. Wayne Easter (Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the intention of the government, myself as Solicitor General and the Canadian Firearms Centre is to not leave the impression that we will extend the deadline because we do not intend to do so. I would advise the system is working much more efficiently than it was sometime ago. Internet registrations are working well. The 1-800 number is working well. I would encourage all gun owners to get on the system and get registered. * * * GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO ATI REQUEST: NUMBER OF GUNS REGISTERED AS OF APRIL 15, 2003 http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/FirearmsRegistered-2003-04-15.xl s - - 294,301 licenced individuals still haven't applied to register their guns - - 338,121 owners of registered handguns still haven't re-registered their guns NOTE: ONLY THOSE LICENCED GUN OWNERS THAT HAVE FILED "LETTERS OF INTENT" BEFORE DECEMBER 31, 2002 ARE ABLE TO REGISTER THEIR FIREARMS: David Austin, spokesman for the Canadian Firearms Centre, said 70,000 letters of intent were filed. Of that number, 45,000 were electronically filed and have all received return messages on how to register their guns. The "bulk" of 25,000 letters of intent in printed form have received packages informing owners what to do to complete registration, he said. People who have not received packages should contact the centre, he suggested. SOURCE: The Chronicle Herald, "Bureaucratic bungling has gun lobby group up in arms" - May 14, 2003, Page D12 - - 541,000 gun owners missed the licencing deadline two years ago. http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/Article56.htm - - 27% of gun owners in Quebec don't have a firearms licence http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/Article57.htm - --------------------------------------------- GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT STATES: "RISK TO PUBLIC SAFETY IS MITIGATED THROUGH LICENCING - IT IS NOT A REGISTRATION ISSUE." http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/PublicSafetyDocument-Jan92001.pd f ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:48:37 -0600 (CST) From: Fred Hoenisch Subject: CFD spreading misinformation re: PCs & NAFTA Don Webb wrote: "...The Orchard/MacKay partnership to dump NAFTA and assassinate a right wing movement to abort the vote splitting and haul in the corrupt Liberal regime are reality now." Someone previously posted something similar which implied the PCs would scrap NAFTA because of the Orchard/MacKay deal. Can you send me something definitive that proves this is what was said and what they are going to do? Everything I've heard, seen, and read suggests they are going to REVIEW the NAFTA deal. I see nothing wrong with reviewing past decisions. I didn't support MacKay's leadership bid, but I don't appreciate this forum being used to spread misinformation about the party (any party for that matter). Have and present the facts! Yours truly, Fred in Victoria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:17:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Andreas Engel" Subject: fedupcanada.org: It's expired. Checking server [whois.publicinterestregistry.net] Checking server [whois.opensrs.net] Results: Registrant: OneWorldNet.com Inc. 7909 - 47th Avenue NW Calgary, AB T3B 1Z2 CA Domain name: FEDUPCANADA.ORG Administrative Contact: Moses, Mike mmoses@1wn.com 7909 - 47th Avenue NW Calgary, AB T3B 1Z2 CA 1.403.286.5913 Fax: 1.403.286.0513 Technical Contact: Moses, Mike mmoses@oneworldhost.com 7909 - 47th Avenue NW Calgary, AB T3B 1Z2 CA 1.902.852.4381 Fax: 1.902.484.6136 Registration Service Provider: OneWorldNet.com Inc., mmoses@1wn.com 902-852-4381 http://www.oneworldhost.com This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords, DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions. Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC. Record last updated on 11-Dec-2002. Record expires on 26-May-2003. Record Created on 27-May-1998. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 04:18:34 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Language Warning !! > gun control bitches May we once again call for a bit of decorum in the Digest ?? We seek to be leaders of Canada, dedicated to protecting Liberty, yet we sometimes sound like a bunch of Neanderthals. I believe we really do need to begin to practice using polite language here in the Digest. Being polite, courteous, and respectful of our opponents may help us learn to treat our allies is a similar manner. Sincerely, Eduardo http://www.cufoa.ca "Never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:20:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: NOVA SCOTIA TO JOIN LIST OF PROVICES REFUSING TO PROSECUTE DATE: 2003.06.03 CATEGORY: General and national news PUBLICATION: bnw - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRURO, N.S. -- Nova Scotia is expected to join the list of provinces refusing to help Ottawa prosecute those who don't register - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRURO, N.S. -- Nova Scotia is expected to join the list of provinces refusing to help Ottawa prosecute those who don't register their long guns. Justice Minister Jamie Muir will make an announcement in Truro this morning. The registry -- described as a billion (b) dollar boondoggle by opponents -- has been a hot political topic, especially in rural areas. Manitoba is already on record as saying it will not co-operate with the federal government in prosecuting anyone who fails to register long guns -- either under the Firearms Act or the criminal code. Alberta will act under the criminal code but is advising police to use discretion and only lay charges under the Firearms Act, which it will not prosecute. Nova Scotia is one of eight provinces that have called for the suspension of the gun registry. Gun owners who are not registered by July 1st face the threat of legal action. (BN) JWL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:21:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Terror Web site sells Canadian firearms PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2003.06.03 EDITION: National SECTION: Canada PAGE: A5 BYLINE: Stewart Bell SOURCE: National Post NOTE: sbell@nationalpost.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terror Web site sells Canadian firearms - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Canadian company that sells mail-order firearms is wondering how it ended up on a Middle Eastern Internet site dedicated to Islamic holy war. The Web Site, which is registered in the Yemeni capital, San'a, and claims to be backed by Osama bin Laden, features a link to Marstar Canada's online rifle catalogue. The company's name appears below a photograph of a grinning bin Laden and directs readers to Marstar's ad for the M-97 shotgun and M-305, a Chinese copy of the U.S. M-14 combat and sniper rifle. Also on the Web site are religious edicts calling on Muslims to wage holy war and several do-it-yourself training manuals with instructions on the tactics of terrorism. "I wonder how the hell we got on there," said John St. Amour, president of Marstar, which operates from Vankleek Hill, Ont., and describes itself as a leading importer of firearms and militaria. There is no evidence that any terrorists ever purchased weapons from Marstar. Mr. St. Amour said even if they tried, they would fail because government approval is required to export the rifles. "That's so ludicrous that it's a joke because, first of all, you can't ship or transfer ownership of anything to do with firearms in Canada without the approval of the federal government, so it's irrelevant. "Those are sporting weapons," he added. "They still wouldn't be allowed to be exported, but on the other hand, why would they even consider buying them from us when they could probably buy them directly, or get them free from one of the various governments that supports their activities, such as Libya or Syria or one of your other friendly nations?" The Canadian connection was found by the SITE Institute, a Washington, D.C., terrorism research organization that monitors Internet sites used by Muslim extremist groups. Al-Qaeda and its supporters have made extensive use of the Internet to recruit and raise money. The Web site offers "mujahedin [holy warrior] and jihad [holy war] news," and claims that bin Laden is one of its signatories. In the "About Us" section, it says: "...We ask Allah to accept our martyrdom, to release our prisoners and to protect our mujahedin." ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #124 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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