From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #141 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, June 7 2003 Volume 06 : Number 141 In this issue: Ranchers want out of elk market Grit sees Tory rise splitting right RCMP tight-lipped over rifle 'evidence' PM named stupidest person in Canada Letter to the Editor, Edmonton Sun My letter to the Halifax Daily News Re: targets Gardner faces gun probe Background checks not always done Ottawa admits ... (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:15:04 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Ranchers want out of elk market http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-06-07-0010.html Saturday, June 7, 2003 Ranchers want out of elk market By AJAY BHARDWAJ, EDMONTON SUN The elk and deer market has bottomed and ranchers may be releasing their animals into the wild to lessen their financial burden, says one man in the industry. "These farmers can't afford to feed these animals anymore," said Len Jubinville, who has 600 deer on his ranch northeast of St. Albert. "They're losing their shirts. We have farmers that are rolling their fences." A number of elk and deer ranchers are getting out of the business because of a collapsing market, he said. Doug Milligan of Alberta Agriculture said 20 elk were spotted roaming free near Marwayne, 246 km east of Edmonton on May 15. Wildlife officers shot eight of them. Milligan confirmed yesterday that 12 more roaming in a second group have also since been killed. None of the animals was diseased, he added. "One group of them had ear tags and it appears the ear tags had been removed," he said. "We're investigating a farm where we think those animals came from." Milligan couldn't confirm whether a second group of elk spotted near Valleyview could be from another herd. Jubinville said some ranches are so full of elk and deer that fences are bursting at the seams. "I don't think a rancher would have let his herd out unless he was in dire straits," he said. Penalties for releasing elk include a $10,000 fine or six months in jail. Milligan said Alberta Agriculture maintains tight controls on game farms to ensure disease isn't spread. Glenda Elkow has 100 elk at her ranch near Lloydminster. But she said she wouldn't release them. "Personally we're in it because we believe in the opportunity, we love the animals," said Elkow, chairman of the Alberta Elk Commission. Premier Ralph Klein says it is vital Alberta's outdoors are protected. "We're always concerned about (game-farm elk running loose) and if they accidentally get out I guess that is one of the risks that we have to endure. (But) if a farmer deliberately - because of the low price for elk - releases those elk into the wild, that farmer will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and he should be." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:15:44 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Grit sees Tory rise splitting right http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-06-07-0028.html Saturday, June 7, 2003 Grit sees Tory rise splitting right 'We're certainly vulnerable,' agrees former Conservative MP By JERRY WARD, LEGISLATURE BUREAU A federal Tory resurgence in Alberta could mean a split of the right-wing vote, allowing the Liberals - under a new leader - to grab more seats, observers say. "We're expecting a significant breakthrough in this province (during the next election)," said Kent Davidson, president of the Liberal Party of Canada in Alberta. And a former Peace River Tory MP, Albert Cooper, admits the Conservatives and the Canadian Alliance are "vulnerable" in Alberta unless the two parties unite before the next election to halt vote-splitting. "Certainly that is what has been happening the last two elections and unless we can come to some kind of resolution we're going to be faced with Liberal majorities for a long time," said Cooper. "We're certainly vulnerable ... but I'm hoping that in the next little while before the election we see the people somehow grab hold of this and break that split." The last federal election was held in November 2000, so the government has until 2005 at the latest to call a vote. The Grits' potential gains won't be a result of Tory and Alliance backers splitting the vote, said Davidson. "There's a gradual, steady, notable acceptance of the Liberal party of Canada," he said. "The Liberal party of Canada is more focused on earning the support and commitment of Alberta voters than they are on what our opponents are doing to fritter it away." He declined to set a target for how many of the 26 Alberta seats the Grits are looking to secure in Alberta, saying the party first needs to clarify its leadership question. Cooper, who served three terms in Ottawa between 1980 and 1993, conceded a change in the Liberal leadership may boost that party's fortunes in Alberta. "If you see a more conservative candidate winning ... then what can happen is those people who would normally vote on the conservative side of the perspective might get frustrated and go straight to that Liberal," he said. "If that happens, that will really undermine the Conservatives and the Alliance." However, University of Lethbridge political scientist Peter McCormick says the demise of the Alliance - and the Reform party prior to that - has been forecast numerous times. "The Alliance's popularity is a bit like telephone wires ... they sag in between the actual election polls," he said. A recent popularity survey shows the federal Tories are gaining ground across the country, with 18% of decided Canadian voters backing the Conservatives. The poll, conducted in mid-May, also showed the Liberals had 52% support, while the Alliance had 12% and the NDP 10%. The Bloc Quebecois remained at 7%. Specifically in the West, the Alliance had 27% support versus the Liberals' 45%. The PCs held 17% and the NDP 11%. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:16:18 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: RCMP tight-lipped over rifle 'evidence' http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-06-07-0026.html Saturday, June 7, 2003 RCMP tight-lipped over rifle 'evidence' Was seized gun connected to Karman's killing? By LORI COOLICAN, SPECIAL TO THE EDMONTON SUN Mounties refuse to confirm or deny the existence of evidence linking a rifle seized from eco-activist Wiebo Ludwig's farm to the June 1999 shooting death of 16-year-old Karman Willis. "Because it's an open investigation, the RCMP can't comment in that area," said RCMP spokesman Cpl. Peter Nobles. "That's still a fairly sensitive area of the investigation." Testifying at a firearms hearing in Grande Prairie Thursday, federal firearms officer Brian White said RCMP had given him as-yet unreleased information connecting the .30-30 Winchester rifle to the teen's death. White refused to elaborate further under questioning from Paul Moreau, the lawyer representing Wiebo Ludwig Jr. at the firearms hearing. The hearing came to a halt when the firearms officer asked to consult a lawyer of his own. A new date to resume the hearing will likely be set next week, for sometime in August, said Moreau. He added that he doesn't know the source or extent of White's information. "We won't know that for a long time," he said. "I'm as much in the dark as anybody else." White made his comments while explaining to the firearm hearing why he denied Ludwig Jr. a licence for the rifle. In his written decision, he stated RCMP were "satisfied" the rifle had fired the fatal shot. Ludwig Jr. testified he needs a gun on the farm to kill livestock, fend off predators and "if necessary" to defend against trespassers. Willis was killed and another teen injured by gunfire while joyriding in a truck on the Ludwig commune north of Hythe. Ludwig Jr. testified the gun, which belonged to his wife, was normally kept in their home. He said he didn't know how it got to the sheep and goat barn where police found it after the shooting, or how .30-.30 ammunition ended up hidden in the house's heating ducts. Willis's grandfather, Walter Willis, said he's never been told police have established a link to any specific gun, but "we thought it would show up sooner or later." He said he hasn't yet talked to other family members about the new development and he's simply waiting for the investigation to wrap up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:17:08 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: PM named stupidest person in Canada http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-06-07-0035.html Saturday, June 7, 2003 PM named stupidest person in Canada By CP TORONTO -- Prime Minister Jean Chretien earned the dubious distinction of the stupidest person in Canada at the World Stupidity Awards last night beating out B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell and new Tory Leader Peter MacKay. More than 400 people helped decide the winner of the Golden Dunce Cap - the dumbest of the dumb - by applauding and cheering for their favourite candidate. Chretien beat out MacKay, an audience favourite. "We can do this in Canada because it's generally a place where you can call the head of state stupid and not face the firing squad," awards organizer Albert Nerenberg said. The awards show was organized by an offbeat group of Toronto filmmakers called the Main Organization Revealing Obvious Numbskulls - or MORON, for short. Nerenberg said he got the idea for the awards while researching his new documentary, Stupidity, which was screened after the show. "There's all this hype about the Darwin Awards, but they have this sadistic quality," Nerenberg said, referring to the annual awards given to people who die while doing stupid things. "I realized that the most dangerous stupidity is elected stupidity. I thought, hey, why isn't there an award show for the living stupid?" The top four contenders in each of the eight categories of stupidity were compiled from more than 1,000 nominations e-mailed from around the world. MORON decided a few of the winners prior to last night. U.S. President George W. Bush won the stupidity award for reckless endangerment of the planet, and North Korea beat out the governments of China, Canada, United States and France for the stupidest government in the world award. "They earned it," Nerenberg said, citing the North Korean government's preoccupation with nuclear weapons despite the country's desperate living conditions. Kangaroo Jack - starring a walking, talking kangaroo - beat out JLo's Maid in Manhattan and Britney Spears' Crossroads to earn the illustrious title of stupidest film of the year. But Nerenberg said MORON felt pretty dumb for forgetting to put Jackass: The Movie on the list of nominees. Nerenberg said the awards attracted attention from the United States and Britain. "Now it has escalated into this monstrous thing," Nerenberg said, adding that a few MORON members got "scared" about being identified with a show calling world leaders stupid. Most of the nominees - even Bush - were sent official invitations to the event. None showed up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:02:00 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Letter to the Editor, Edmonton Sun http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSun/editorial.html Edmonton Sun Letters to the Editor Saturday, June 7, 2003 THE CANADIAN Firearms Centre has reported that approximately 632,000 licensed gun owners have yet to register their firearms, after eight years of trying to get the fatally flawed firearms act implemented. An additional 541,000 gun owners failed to even get a licence, as required two years ago. That is, of course, assuming that you believe the CFC's figures of a total of 2.2 million gun owners in Canada while other estimates put it as high as five million. With less than 25 days left before the absolutely, positively, line-drawn-in-the-sand-last-extension-ever, this means that the CFC staff will have to process 1,053 registration applications every hour of every day until the deadline - clearly an impossible task, even with the amount of money being thrown at it. Bruce N. Mills (The gun registry is a boondoggle.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:02:34 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Halifax Daily News Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: It's the law, minister Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:02:26 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Halifax Daily News His flawed hockey analogy aside, Mr. Pat Connolly does make a few good points - unfortunately, they are as equally flawed. First off, any supposed "support" for the Firearms Act is based on flawed polls, which ask simplistic questions of an uninformed populace, such as "Are you in favour of gun control?". Of course, most people would say yes. However, Dr. Garry Mauser conducted a study on just this kind of poll and found that as more information and options were provided to the respondents, "support" for this kind of legislation dropped considerably. The rest of Mr. Connolly's argument seems to depend solely on the liberal's typical anti-American sentiment, that the United State's 2nd Amendment of their Bill of Rights doesn't really apply to us Canadians, and even if it did, it's obviously "archaic" and has no use in a "civilized" society. Canadians derive the same right to keep and bear arms for their own defence from the same place that the American Founding Fathers did: English Law. The Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights 1689, the philosophy of John Locke, the Commentaries of Sir William Blackstone, all support the rights of the individual to protect themselves, and to have the most effective means to do so. This right is transmitted to us through the British North America Act, the Canadian Bill of Rights (1960), and through the Constitution Act and Charter of Rights and Freedoms, (1982). As for being "archaic", the simplest rebuttal to this is to point out that it would then follow that the US 1st amendment doesn't apply to telephones, television or the Internet, since the Founding Fathers couldn't possibly have foreseen these developments in communication. "Archaic" does not automatically mean "bad", any more than "American" does. The fact remains that the Firearms Act transgresses upon several of our inherent and Charter protected rights: the right to privacy, the right to property, the right to freedom of association, the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, the right to counsel, the right to be presumed innocent, the right to self defence, the right to remain silent, the right to be treated equally before and under the law, to name a few. Mr. Connolly was right on one point, though: one should not flout the law unless that law "is so fundamentally flawed, so outrageously wrong and so universally unpopular that only an act of absolute defiance can serve to change it." If ever there were such a law, the Firearms Act is it. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:31:03 -0600 (CST) From: B Farion Subject: Re: targets > accurate information, but if I remember correctly, one of the members > (who worked as a welder) donated scrap metal that he had cut into target > shapes. The smaller circle targets were then riveted to old fire hose > and hung from metal frames that this fellow had created. We had them set > up at various distances down the range. > the geeks at the CFO do not like steel and are demanding they be taken down "for our safety!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:31:54 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Gardner faces gun probe http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1052251764999&call_pageid=968332188492 >From Toronto Star Jun. 7, 2003. 08:44 AM RENE JOHNSTON/TORONTO STAR Toronto Police Services Board chair Norm Gardner admits he accepted a .45-calibre TAC-four handgun from a Scarborough man. Gardner faces gun probe Police board chair accepted gift May step down during investigation JACK LAKEY CITY HALL BUREAU The Toronto Police Services Board voted last night to have chair Norm Gardner investigated for accepting a handgun as a gift from a Scarborough firearms company. The board will ask the Ontario Civilian Commission on Police Services to investigate Gardner's accepting a .45-calibre TAC-Four handgun from Thanos Polyzos of Para-Ordnance in February. Gardner said an Ontario Provincial Police wiretap of a Stouffville gun store revealed the transaction. "I've done nothing wrong," Gardner said, explaining that he had intended to pay for the gun. "I wanted to pay for it." While Gardner first told the Star he would temporarily stand aside if the matter was referred to the civilian oversight agency, he later said he will seek legal advice on Monday to decide what he must do. Gardner said the board hadn't informed him of its decision late last night. City Councillor Gloria Lindsay Luby, who is vice-chair of the police services board, would assume Gardner's role until the investigation is completed. Lindsay Luby said in an interview late last night that the board had asked Gardner to voluntarily step aside before the vote, but he refused to do so. "Ideally, we would have liked him to do that on his own, but he didn't," she said. "It's fair to say the board is quite unhappy that this situation has occurred. I feel really upset about this. It reflects badly on everyone and it would have been much better if he decided to step aside." In response to her comments, Gardner said last night that his lawyer had told the board that they had a duty to conduct their own independent investigation, as required under the Police Act, before sending it on to the police commission. Lindsay Luby said the board would be issuing a news release today with more details. If the civilian policing commission finds that Gardner has breached any laws or statutes governing his conduct as chair of the board, it could force him to resign permanently. Gardner said in an interview last night that he accepted the handgun from Polyzos after he helped Para-Ordnance get an exhibitor's booth for a reduced rate at the International Association of Chiefs of Police convention in Toronto in 2001. But he insisted he always intended to pay for the gun, which he says he took possession of last Feb. 27, but didn't get around to paying for it soon enough. "I don't take freebies. If I go make a speech somewhere and I get an honorarium, I give it to charity. "I'm talking to you because I don't mind the press looking at this." Gardner said he paid Polyzos more than $700 for the gun on June 3, which he described as "the dealer's price" and that he doesn't think of it as a gift because he paid for it. "Yeah, I paid a dealer's price for it. Hey, I'm a collector. I shoot." The handgun gift came to the board's attention as a result of an OPP wiretap of a Stouffville sporting goods store, Gardner explained. To comply with laws, Gardner said the gun had to be transferred to him by a registered firearms dealer. Polyzos arranged for a sporting goods store in Stouffville, which Gardner refused to name, to provide him with the gun, but since it was a deal between him and Polyzos, he didn't pay the store for the gun. Between February and May, he concedes he made no attempt to pay for the gun. It was only when two investigators from the OPP firearms enforcement unit came to see him on May 16 that he realized he had a problem, he said. Gardner said the OPP told him they had been conducting a wiretap of the gun store and overheard him making arrangements to pick up the gun. "So the OPP comes, and they want to know if I did (Polyzos) any favours. It turns out that they picked up on me by wiretapping the store. So I told them my story and they told me not to talk to anyone about it. "I told them I wanted to go pay for it right away, but (the OPP) didn't want me talking, so I didn't." The Star was unable to reach Polyzos for comment last night. An OPP spokesperson said that no one was available to confirm or deny Gardner's comments. Gardner said he first met Polyzos around the time of the international police chiefs convention in the summer of 2001. He had never met Polyzos but was contacted by him because he wanted help in getting a better price on an exhibitor's booth at the convention. Gardner said Polyzos told him that he had been quoted a price of $25,000 for a booth but wanted Gardner to help him get a better deal. Gardner said he talked to a staff inspector at the Toronto police who "wound up making a deal with him and the price he got was $7,500." Following the conference, Gardner said he developed a friendship with Polyzos. At one point "he said I'd like you to have one of our products," Gardner recalled. "I said, `Okay, but I want to pay something for it.'" Last February Gardner said he got a call from the sporting goods store saying that the gun Polyzos had offered him was now available. He said he drove up to Stouffville and picked up the gun, but a short time later he went on a vacation to Florida for a couple of weeks and didn't get around to paying Polyzos for the gun. "When I came back it was a board week," said Gardner, referring to a regular monthly meeting of the police board. "Board weeks are very hectic. It was not a burning issue to get to Polyzos and pay the bill." Norm Gardner has a controversial history with guns. In 1992, Gardner shot and wounded a suspect during a robbery at his North York bakery. Gardner held a permit to carry a firearm for personal protection. He was cleared of wrongdoing. In 1994, during a police firearms amnesty program in North York, Gardner was the first to turn in a gun. He posed for cameras with a rifle, which he later admitted was a piece of "garbage" he picked up for nothing at a gun store for use in the publicity stunt. with files from Peter Small ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:44:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Background checks not always done Ottawa admits ... (fwd) There are a number of members in this forum who took strong exception to my support of licensing as an effective public safety measure. I persisted, and felt that short goals could be achieved by reaching the voters in "Middle Canada". It seems that new evidence has come to light in this morning's National Post (p A6). Here is my response to the National Post's article, and here is my apology to those who were critical of my position. I'm not sure that the venom in this letter will allow it to be published, but I post it here by way of apology to my colleagues in the west in particular. Your arguments could not sway me, but the idiots who make up our government just have. Kudos to Garry Breitkreuz. With Respect, Rob Sciuk - -- Dear Sir/Madame, As a vocal opponent of aspects the federal Firearms Act, I have actually supported the licensing aspect of the Act as being one of the few reasonable and effective measures. In so doing I have taken much heat from my more radical peers, but still I persisted. As Mr. Easter, the Solicitor-General reports the background checks are done on a "discretionary" basis they might as well not be done at all. Anecdotally, many licensees have long known that personal references remained unchecked, but this development is totally unexpected. It now seems reasonable that notorious biker Maurice "Mom" Boucher could have posessed a valid firearms license. Moreover, it demonstrates that the Firearms Act is a complete and utter failure in each and every respect. It is a failure in design, in scope, and in implementation. This would also explain the increase in violent crime using illegal handguns in our cities, since the Canadian citizens have been fed a very expensive placebo instead of fair, effective and affordable legislation. The failure of the implementation of the long gun registry is by now well known to all Canadians. The draconian regulations which contravene the Charter of Rights, and treat peaceful firearms owners as potential criminals and second class citzens are perhaps not so well known to the average Canadian. They should be concerned however. The failure of this Act to prevent crime in spite of the astronomical costs is certainly now apparent. It turns out that the only aspect of the act which might have had any impact upon the public safety is a sham and a travesty. The billions of dollars spent on this ludicrous piece of legislation is a complete and total waste of tax payers money. I didn't believe those more "radical" firearms owners and they accused me of being an apologist. Now I really have to apologize. It turns out I was wrong. Dead wrong! Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #141 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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