From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #190 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, June 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 190 In this issue: Need Citation for Quote ONE RCMP COMMISSIONER'S VIEWS ON GUN CONTROL Armed marshals on flights from U.S. Quick election unfair: Harper One arrested in Surrey double shooting Are cops hiding truth? Letters a measure of public mood ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:12:43 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Need Citation for Quote Need Citation for Quote: "Leonard Nicholson, former RCMP Commissioner, stated, 'Registry of restricted and handguns has not resulted in any appreciable effect on crime control'." Thanks. Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:13:34 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: ONE RCMP COMMISSIONER'S VIEWS ON GUN CONTROL Please accept my apology; I found the source in my notes. Eduardo ONE RCMP COMMISSIONER'S VIEWS ON GUN CONTROL Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:09:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" QUOTES ON GUN CONTROL FROM COL. L.H. NICHOLSON, COMMISSIONER OF THE RCMP (Retired) Thursday, June 2, 1977 - Ottawa, Ontario On Thursday, June 2, 1977 Colonel L.H. Nicholson, Retired Commissioner of the RCMP, appeared before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs in his capacity as Chairman, Firearms Legislation Committee, Canadian Wildlife Federation (CWF) representing 320,000 members and supporters across Canada. The Standing Committee was hearing witnesses with respect to gun control provisions included in Bill C-51, Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1977. The following quotes were taken from the Official House of Commons Minutes of Proceedings and Evidence, Issue 18, Second Session of Parliament, Thirtieth Parliament, 1976-77, Mr. Mark MacQuigan, Chairman, Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. COL. L.H. NICHOLSON QUOTES Page 18:12: "I do not think that crime is going to be stopped by tackling firearms. I have said repeatedly, Mr. Chairman, that all we can do is hope to tighten a little here and a little there. Criminals have guns. Criminals have handguns; despite pretty severe restrictions that have been imposed for years, and they still have handguns." Page 18:18: "I personally dislike seeing the protection of property taken out of a qualification because I sincerely believe there are times when possession of a firearm, having a firearm nearby could prevent a very serious crime. It has been based on the fact that if you are a good citizen, even with the recent amendments, and you want to have a handgun in your home or in your place of business, you may do so. It does not suggest that everyone should do it. I may say that when I was an active policeman and people came to me and asked about this, I have asked them, do you know how to handle a handgun, in the first place? If you do not know how to handle a handgun, you better use a baseball bat and if your are going to use a firearm, you would be a lot better off with a shotgun." Page 18:22: "I do not see any trouble in dealing with a man who embarks on crime. If he does so and is brought to court, the he is subject, if the crime is serious, to a mandatory order of prohibition. If the crime is less serious it is brought to the attention of the court and the court has the discretion as to whether or not they should issue a certificate. As to the other type of behaviour, whether it is a mental breakdown or whatever...we think the community and family involved, when they see a person breaking down mentally and becoming a danger, should at once take steps to put him under an order of prohibition. A criminal is going to be caught by the court action, but I would suggest that the person who has a mental breakdown of some kind, or who becomes a violent and dangerous alcoholic, requires family and community understanding and cooperation, and full police follow-up action. That is my view and I have urged it. With that sort of view, I think most of these risks will be identified and taken care of." Page 18:29: "Of course, our first proposal did not visualize a FAC certificate at all. Our first proposal, which we brought forward to the government for consideration, was based on the plan that there would have to be qualifications before a person could buy a firearm. But the qualification would be a hunting licence or membership in a club, or authorized marksmen's club, and one or two other things." Page 18:32: Responding to a MP's question about "major weaknesses in the bill" Col. Nicholson said: "Most objectionable indeed. I have a note here. Moving the restricted classification firearm to the prohibited classification by Order in Council." Page 18:34: "Well, as a generality, if I may express it this way, the concern in our ranks is not always so much with individual items [in the legislation]: looking at one, perhaps we would not worry too much about it; but when we see several and we look at them all together, then there is a feeling, pretty general, that the government and Parliament are gradually going to keep on tightening a little more and a little more and a little more on firearms, and this is the thing that really causes disturbance and irritation in the ranks of gun owners. If we know that this bill was going to go through and the door was going to be closed, that this is where we stop, there would be a great deal of satisfaction. But there is a tremendous amount of worry. Taking property out, that life and property. If that stood alone, perhaps we would not have raised the question, but we see that in relation to and in combination with several others - this continual sort of a-little-here and a-little-there, and an indication that perhaps ownership of a gun is a bad thing, whether you are a good citizen or not." Page 18:35: "Let us not fool ourselves, if I may put it that way, crime is not going to be stopped by gun laws, not by gun laws." BACKGROUND: LEONARD HANSON NICHOLSON, MBE, LL.D. (HON.) Constable: RCMP - 1923 to1926 Constable, Sergeant, Inspector: New Brunswick Provincial Police - 1928-1930 Inspector, Superintendent: Nova Scotia Police - 1930-1932 Inspector, Superintendent and Assistant Commissioner - 1932-1951 Commissioner of the RCMP - May 1, 1951 to March 31, 1959. >From 1941 to 1946 served in various Provost Staff appointments with different Canadian Army field formations in Canada, United Kingdom, Italy and Northwest Europe. Upon his return from Europe in 1945, he was appointed Provost Marshall with the rank of Colonel until his release from the army. Member of the Order of the British Empire Officer, Order of Canada Member, Northwest Territories Council: 1951-60 Chief, Protection and Investigation Service, Bank of Nova Scotia: 1961-65 Director, Canadian Corps of Commissionaires: 1963-73 Director, Canadian Wildlife Federation: 1974-78 "Outdoors Man of the Year" 1976 Bailiff Grand Cross, Order of St. John Chancellor, Priory of Canada, Order of St. John: 1969-1972 Chief Commissioner, St. John Ambulance Brigade: 1960-1965 International Commissioner, Boy Scouts of Canada: 1960-1965 Canadian Rifle Team, Bisley: 1954 President, Dominion of Canada Rifle Association Honorary Chief, Blackfoot Confederacy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:13:27 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Armed marshals on flights from U.S. http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/story.asp?id=A17554B5-F9D3-48D4-BEDF-FBABE704FDB0 Armed marshals on flights from U.S. Officials tight-lipped about secret order exempting them from Firearms Act Tim Naumetz The Ottawa Citizen Sunday, June 22, 2003 Gun-toting U.S. air marshals are flying into Canadian airports after the federal cabinet passed a top-secret order last month exempting them from undisclosed provisions of the Firearms Act. Government officials refused to comment on the cabinet order passed May 29, saying unauthorized disclosure was prevented by a section of the Access to Information Act dealing with international affairs and defence. The matter is so sensitive that a records administrator with the Privy Council Office was concerned she might have broken the law simply by telling a reporter that information about the cabinet order was not authorized. Officials with Transport Canada and the Canadian Firearms Centre also refused to comment, declining even to name the U.S airlines flying into Canadian airports. "It falls under the category of international affairs and defence information, which means it's not for discussion, we're not going to talk about it," said David Austin, a spokesman for the Canadian Firearms Centre. Bernard Pilon, a spokesman for Transport Canada, would only say "we cannot discuss that in the interests of security, we cannot get into details on that." It was not known whether the U.S. marshals are restricted to U.S. airlines or are also flying on Canadian airlines in and out of the U.S. In Canada, the government has said only that armed RCMP officers are on flights into Reagan Airport in Washington, D.C. and some other flights, internationally and domestically. An official with the U.S. Transportation Security Administration, a branch of the Department of Homeland Security, would only provide a general description of the air marshal service, which has grown sharply since the 2001 terrorist attacks. Spokeswoman Andrea Fuentes referred all other questions back to the Canadian government. An information sheet Ms. Fuentes provided says U.S. air marshals numbered 33 prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and have since increased "into the thousands." It also says the marshals have the toughest shooting requirements in U.S. federal law enforcement and are trained in other self-defence techniques. The statement said air marshals have assisted in a range of onflight emergencies, such as stopping passengers from opening aircraft doors during the flight, or entering the cockpit. They have also helped to give first aid in medical emergencies. © Copyright 2003 The Ottawa Citizen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:20:53 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Quick election unfair: Harper http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/story.asp?id=6388B5E5-3A07-4F0A-B34D-1DE931492E11 Quick election unfair: Harper Martin plans to 'screw the West' Norma Greenaway The Ottawa Citizen Sunday, June 22, 2003 Paul Martin's plan to call an early election should he become the next prime minister shows he adheres to the decades-old Liberal strategy of "screw the West and get the rest," charged Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper. Mr. Martin's apparent desire for an early election blows a big hole in his vow to end western alienation if he wins the Liberal leadership in November and replaces Jean Chrétien as prime minister in February, Mr. Harper said yesterday. "It's just a claim. The fundamental strategy of the Liberal party for the last 30 years remains screw the West, get the rest." Western Canada, an Alliance stronghold, would be deprived of four new seats in the House of Commons if the election is called before July 21, the date the new electoral boundaries go into effect. Based on population growth from the 2001 census, the number of seats in B.C. and Alberta will grow by two each, raising the number of seats to 92 from 88 in the four western provinces. Three more seats will be added in Ontario. Mr. Harper was responding to a report that Mr. Martin advised a group of about 30 Liberal senators, during a private meeting Friday, that he is considering taking advantage of the party's high standing in the polls by calling an early election if he wins the top job. The story quoted sources as saying the leadership front-runner said he hoped to move "quickly" on an election after the February transfer of power. Scott Reid, a spokesman for Mr. Martin, confirmed that a potential election was discussed. "He refused to speculate, naturally, on when an election might be called," said Mr. Reid. "He specifically said if he was fortunate enough to be elected leader, that the party would naturally have to be prepared to go early, to go late, to go under any scenario, and that the obligation of the party is to be ready to go and the obligation of the prime minister is have the party in shape to go.'' The rival leadership camp of John Manley took a dim view of Mr. Martin's comments. "It's very presumptuous to be talking about these things before anybody has made a decision," said Manley spokesman Doug Kirkpatrick. "Contrary to popular opinion, the race isn't over." Mr. Harper said Mr. Martin would prefer not to have those extra Alberta and B.C. seats up for grabs because the Liberals are weak in the West, especially compared to Ontario, where they have all but three of the 103 seats. The Alliance, however, is operating on the assumption it will face off against the Martin-led Liberals in the next election, and also that the election could be as early as next spring. "It's all part of the bubble strategy that he's been executing since he left cabinet," Harper said of Martin. "Treat the ascension to the throne as inevitable. And just have the election before anyone asks any questions or thinks twice." "There's nothing in it for him to allow the West to have more seats," said Harper, who was in Toronto. Kirkpatrick agreed Martin's interest in an early election casts doubt on his professed commitment to more western participation in government. "He has talked about the importance of reducing democratic deficits and giving people more voice," Kirkpatrick said. He questioned how Martin "squares" that promise with an early election that would deprive the West of four more seats. © Copyright 2003 The Ottawa Citizen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:46:17 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: One arrested in Surrey double shooting http://www.canada.com/vancouver/globaltv/story.asp?id=9B073A5C-A2A0-4528-8730-611A48F31F2A One arrested in Surrey double shooting Three seen fleeing scene of attack in Guildford, say police Global BC Friday, June 13, 2003 A Surrey RCMP officer surveys outside the apartment block where two men were shot Thursday. (Global BC) Surrey RCMP have arrested one man and continue to search for two others suspected in a double shooting Thursday afternoon. Two men were shot several times in the attack, which police say came after three men kicked in the doors of two apartments and opened fire. The Surrey residents, who are known to police, suffered chest and leg wounds in the attack. Police say the two victims, both of whom are recovering in Royal Columbian Hospital, were targeted. It's believed the attacks are related to a marijuana grow operation that was ripped off. Surrey RCMP Const. Tim Shields says the suspects are two Asian males in their early 20s and a white male aged 18 to 25. One man has since been taken into custody, but police continue to look for the others. There were numerous witnesses to the shootings at 150th Street and 106 Avenue in the Guildford area. © Copyright 2003 Global BC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:47:55 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Are cops hiding truth? http://www.canoe.com/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2003/06/22/116900.html Sun, June 22, 2003 Are cops hiding truth? Trial lawyer says they are about his client By MARK BONOKOSKI Toronto lawyer Ernest Guiste, a trial and appeal specialist, tosses the rather large legal file on a table in his office, and then he shakes his head. "I just think the whole thing is outrageous," he says. "The police roughed up my client, took her to the hospital, and then they tried to hide it. "And it is obvious they tried to hide it." According to a copy of the triage report from the Ajax and Pickering Health Centre, Guiste's 25-year-old client was indeed delivered to the hospital around midnight, April 4, 2002, by two Toronto police officers working out of Scarborough. The attending doctor's handwritten notes read, "(She) reports being assaulted by police while in custody, reports being punched, tackled by multiple officers, complains of neck pain and back pain." Skin abrasions are documented, as well as bruising. The identity of the "accompanying person" is typed in with a badge number that no longer exists. According to police records, the officer who once owned that badge, while not retired, is no longer with the Toronto police force. "That's all I can say," said the records clerk. Backtrack. Ernest Guiste's client, a victim of chronic spousal abuse, failed to attend Scarborough provincial court to testify against her abuser -- since convicted and jailed for his attack -- because, says Guiste, she "feared retribution." "It's not an uncommon thing in domestic abuse situations," he says. "A woman in an abusive relationship is always fearful of consequences." Nonetheless, a subpoena is a subpoena, and, as a result of her no-show in court, a material witness warrant was issued for her arrest. It was when they got to the station, however, that the troubles began -- with Guiste's client ending up being charged with assaulting police. But, according to Guiste, that's only half the story. As Guiste wrote in a letter of complaint to Scarborough Crown attorney Sean Hickey, his client "was then the subject of a strip search, which she opposed, and the police (then) took liberty and beat her unjustifiably." In the official police synopsis of the charge against Guiste's client, however, and this is the synopsis which the Crown uses as the basis for its prosecution, there is no mention of Guiste's client perhaps getting a little "quid pro quo" from the police, nor is it mentioned that she was later taken to hospital. "The accused refused the officer to search her and began yelling at the officer that she was not a criminal, and that she wasn't going to be searched," the report reads. "The accused became more aggressive, at which time she lashed out at (the officer), scratching her on the face, leaving a scratch on her right cheek and cutting her bottom lip." The last paragraph in the police synopsis reads, "The accused was subdued and handcuffed. The accused was then taken to the holding cell and charged accordingly." It was as if she had never left the station -- despite the fact there exists a hospital report at the Ajax and Pickering Health Centre which says otherwise. And it gets worse. In preparing his client's defence against the assault police charge, Guiste requested photocopies of the notebook entries of the four police officers who were at the station when the brouhaha occurred. Not one of those notebooks makes any mention of Guiste's client being taken to the hospital. Not even as a passing reference. "Where's the full disclosure that police are required to abide by?" asks Guiste. "Where are the obligatory injury reports that police are required to produce when a person is injured while in custody and taken to a hospital?" The trial for Guiste's client on the assault police charge is not scheduled until February of next year. In the meantime, Guiste wants the charges against his client dropped, and the police investigated. "I am not an advocate who hides facts or tolerates the flagrant abuse of the legal process by anyone," Guiste writes in his letter to Scarborough Crown attorney Sean Hickey. "You cannot hide from the truth unless you change the facts. "The only logical and reasonable conclusion which can be drawn from the facts (in this case) is that your agents -- (ie: the police) -- tried to hide the fact that (my client) required medical attention. "Again, why do you not abandon (my client's) prosecution?" asks Guiste, suggesting -- again -- that the Crown's attention should focus on the actions of the police and the omissions in their notes. That letter was written on June 11. Thus far there has been no response. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:48:31 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Letters a measure of public mood http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1056060627144&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795 Jun. 21, 2003. 01:00 AM Letters a measure of public mood BOB HEPBURN EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR While I walked our dog early one morning this week, a neighbour stopped me to say she had written a letter to the editor and the Star had not run it. Coincidentally, her passing comment came a few days after a prominent Toronto lawyer had written a lengthy letter to Star executives suggesting we have been "blackballing" him because we failed to run one of his letters this month and because we had not published some of his earlier missives. It's a common complaint by many Star readers: their witty, passionate and well-argued letters never appear on our letters page, which is one of the best-read pages in the entire paper. So, just how do you get a letter published? And how does the Star decide which letters to run? To start, the Star pays close attention to every letter we receive. Letters page editor Gabriel Gonda reads each one. That's a big chore because we get more letters by far than any other newspaper in Canada. For example, this week we received 606 letters. During peak weeks, such as the 9/11 terrorist attacks or the Iraq invasion, readers send in more than 2,000 letters. About 85 per cent come by e-mail, 10 per cent by regular mail and 5 per cent by fax. Despite devoting more space for letters than any other Canadian newspaper, we normally can run fewer than 20 per cent of those that come in. Still, the letters provide an excellent way to learn which issues are touching the nerves of the community, to see how divided or united readers are on a hot-button topic, to give people an outlet to vent their frustrations with either the newspaper, government officials or even other letter writers. As Ronald D. Clark, a long-time former editorial page editor of the Pioneer Press in St. Paul, Minnesota, said in urging editors to take letters seriously: "Consider letters as a barometer of how well your newspaper . . . is engaging readers. The more you receive, the more you're connecting. The fewer you receive, the stronger the sign that you're putting the masses to sleep." Just as the Star's community editorial board, which is comprised of 12 volunteer members from diverse backgrounds, helps the paper understand our community better and to give voice to many ethnic groups that formerly felt excluded by major metropolitan papers, the letters page also provides a forum for our readers to tell us what is important in the Greater Toronto Area and across the country. It also allows individuals or groups who have been attacked in editorials or news stories to tell their side, or give us a blast about our coverage. Clarence Page, a Pulitzer Prize winning syndicate columnist for the Chicago Tribune, says an active letters page is an avenue to increase the personal relationships between readers and the newspaper. "We need more than ever to send a message that they (readers) are a part of what we do, not just a big monolithic public to be lectured to," Page says. Understand that despite all our checks and balances, the selection process by its nature is quite arbitrary. We look for letters that express an opinion about the controversy of the day. We tend to have a bias toward letters that voice a viewpoint contrary to our editorials or columnists. We try hard to ensure the page fairly reflects the volume and views of letters we get. Often, we are accused of over weighting the letters that do appear. Those charges frequently revolve around bitterly divided issues, such as the Middle East. When we face those allegations, we run checks to see just how we really are doing. For example, earlier this month, a computer search on mail the Star has published so far in 2003 on the Mideast turned up 48 letters. Of those, 21 expressed support or sympathy with Israel, 21 might be called pro-Palestinian and six criticized neither side. Gonda also checks for libel and factual errors. He and an assistant also make every reasonable effort to contact the writer to verify the authenticity of the piece. He edits the letters only for clarity and length, not substance. We won't however, run letters filled with hatred, bigotry or personal attacks. As a rule, short is good, and shorter is better. We encourage readers to keep letters between 50-150 words, although the day's main letter can run to 300 words. Generally, we try to limit writers to one published letter a month. Gonda is constantly on the watch for organized letter-writing campaigns, which come from special-interest groups, political parties or trade unions. One last tip: Gonda says humour often works because it provides relief on what often is a very serious page. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #190 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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