From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #501 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, September 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 501 In this issue: Re: Canadian politics,apathy etc. Editorial: ID card sticker shock UBCM urged to lobby Ottawa to scrap the federal gun registry Editorial: Questioning Coderre Re: More on public rejection of brit ID card Drive-by slaying at party blamed on gang: Brawl injures three (report of shots fired) Re: My letter to the Tri-City News HUNT ON FOR MALL SHOOTING SUSPECT RE: This man needs a lot of peace. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:10:05 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: Canadian politics,apathy etc. Of course it is the fault of Quebec and Quebecers that all federal ridings in Ontario, save two, went to the Liberals. It is of course the fault of Quebec and Quebecers that a sufficient number of them were and some are so pissed of at Ottawa that a separatist movement was born and lives still, that such people were the opposite of apathetic and very nearly created their own country. It is of course the fault of Quebec and Quebecers that on whatever side of the debate one may stand the issue of disagreement has always been used as a political tool to divide the population and ensure subjugation. One main difference I see between Canada and the US is that Canada is made up of regions and the resulting regionalism of which the US seems to have less and is therefore more cohesive. When you write what you write you help to support the east west divide and become merely another tool. When you write what you write you discredit and criticize an entire region, Quebec or Ontario, despite the fact many people on this digest come from those regions. Look around, your in the tool box. If you take the time to look at what the provinces want, example Alberta, and what Quebec wants vis a vis provincial powers you will find more in common than in dispute. Think about the numbers. There are 12 million people in Ontario and 7 million in Quebec. My guess is that there are more people in Toronto than in Alberta or perhaps BC. There are 3 million in Montreal. That is political reality. So if the east west reality of Canada is not to your liking you could always exercise your personal option and go south. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract : All Rights Reserved : Without Prejudice __________________________________________________ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "kaiten6" To: Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 5:01 PM Subject: Canadian politics,apathy etc. > > I' m a Canadian,who happens to hold both Canadian & American citizenship. > That being said I have found the majority of my Canadian acquaints are fine > people with high values etc,but for some godly unknown reason almost totally > apathetic as to the way they are governed. On the other hand my American > acquaints for the most part are very concerned & outspoken as to the way > they are governed. Why the difference you ask? good question , probably > decades of Liberal social engineering & constant pandering to Ontario( read > urban Toronto) & Quebec,mostly Quebec I would suspect.I feel sorry for > Canada a country with great potential,never to be realised. Best > regards-Cody > "Make yourselves sheep & the wolves will eat you"-Ben Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:11:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editorial: ID card sticker shock PUBLICATION GLOBE AND MAIL DATE: MON SEP.22,2003 PAGE: A16 BYLINE: CLASS: Editorial EDITION: Metro DATELINE: WORDS: 566 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ID card sticker shock - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Robert Marleau, the interim privacy commissioner, did taxpayers a service last week, though hardly anyone took notice. In testimony to the House of Commons citizenship and immigration committee, he put forward a cogent, thoughtful analysis on the merits of Immigration Minister Denis Coderre's idea to make Canadians carry a national identity card. One would expect the commissioner to balk at the idea of a mandatory ID card on privacy grounds. His predecessor, George Radwanski, panned the concept in March, three months before he was forced from the office in disgrace over his profligate dining habits. Mr. Marleau raises alarms about privacy issues as well, but what sets his research apart is the strength of his arguments over the cost and benefits of the minister's project. The national identification card would, in Mr. Coderre's view, have several benefits. Primarily, it would make it easier for Canadians to enter the United States and reduce fraud and identity theft. The minister has called for a national debate on the concept, but he has presented little convincing evidence to support it and no hard data on how much the government would be forced to spend to implement it. Mr. Marleau believes the cost will be $3-billion to $5-billion just to create the system, not including huge annual operating costs. If experience is any guide, his estimate is conservative. A report by Human Resources Development Canada in 1999 concluded that an ID card based on an existing system - the social insurance number - would cost up to $3.6-billion. But government departments are notorious for underestimating the money needed for such grandiose schemes, as illustrated in the fiasco surrounding the national firearms registry. When Ottawa began work on the gun registry in the mid-1990s, the Justice Department estimated it would cost $119-million, an amount that was to be almost entirely offset by fees charged to firearms users. The cost is now expected to reach at least $1-billion by 2004-2005, with only a fraction of it covered by fees, according to the Auditor-General. Mr. Marleau put it correctly: "The history of government cost overruns associated with running national registries and IT networks . . . should serve as an additional warning of the potentially exorbitant cost of issuing a national ID card to every Canadian." Just as important, the billions of dollars Ottawa would have to spend would bring limited benefit to citizens. The passport is the usual way of identifying yourself at international borders, and if the Canadian passport proves to be inadequate for security-conscious U.S. officials, fixing it would be cheaper, simpler and more effective than a new ID card, the privacy commissioner believes. As for the notion that it will help bring a new level of security to our own borders, Mr. Marleau dismisses it as naive: "Terrorists have become too resourceful to be stopped, or even hindered, by such a simple device as a national ID card." In fact, the card could become a useful tool for those who wish to enter Canada illegally with a fraudulent one, since, unlike the passport, it would be perceived to be nearly foolproof. The onus is now on the Immigration Minister to present a convincing cost-benefit analysis of his own to rebut the privacy commissioner. If he cannot, his identity card proposal deserves no more consideration than it has already received. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:13:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: UBCM urged to lobby Ottawa to scrap the federal gun registry PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2003.09.22 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial PAGE: A16 SOURCE: The Province - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= B.C. mayors better off to back united front - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= During the past year, towns and cities throughout B.C. have had to deal with everything from SARS, the U.S. softwood lumber dispute and forest fires. As well, municipal councils have had to wrestle with liquor store privatization and the downloading of policing and other civic costs by the B.C. Liberals. These concerns, and others, are documented in the more than 160 resolutions slated for debate at the 100th annual convention of the Union of B.C. Municipalities. The largest gathering of politicians in the province convenes today in Vancouver. The 1,200 civic leaders expected to attend will have their hands full; the range of topics is daunting, as is the prospect of finding common ground among politicians from so many regions. "In many instances change is very slow," UBCM president and Kamloops mayor Pat Wallace told The Province editorial board. Valemount council, for example, will urge the UBCM to lobby Ottawa to scrap the federal gun registry and spend the money on health care, education and front-line policing instead. Dawson Creek wants a health -care billing system that gives taxpayers the ability to question all payments made on their behalf. Gibsons council wants Victoria to ban the use of hand-held cellular phones while driving -- although the B.C. government has clearly indicated it will not do so. Success may also be a stretch for a Vancouver city council resolution aimed at encouraging the use of a two-wheeled, motorized people-mover called the Segway Human Transporter, intended to combat global warming. But the UBCM meeting is about more than the scores of motions from the floor. It provides B.C.'s grassroots politicians the opportunity to gather together to air their grievances with senior governments, such as reminding prime-minister-in-waiting Paul Martin, who is scheduled to attend, of his promise to more fairly redistribute federal gas taxes, the lion's share of which is handed to the Eastern provinces. The convention also enables council members to discuss new developments for the province. For example, while the 2010 Winter Olympic Games will be held mainly in the Vancouver-Whistler area, other regions are well-positioned to take part in the economic growth. The united front against the devastation of the Interior forest fires showed B.C.'s citizens that our municipal politicians can pull together for the common good. Hopefully, the UBCM gathering can keep the momentum going. What do you think? Leave a brief comment, your name and hometown at: 604-605-2029, fax: 604-605-2099 or e-mail: provletters@png.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:15:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editorial: Questioning Coderre PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2003.09.22 EDITION: National SECTION: Editorials PAGE: A11 SOURCE: National PostCUSTOMS & DUTIES; POLITICIANS - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Questioning Coderre - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= About a year ago, Denis Coderre, the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, proposed the creation of a national ID card to help enhance national security. Given that a universal form of identification would likely help Canadian police track down suspected terrorists, we see this as an attractive idea -- notwithstanding critics' complaints that it would cost too much and intrude on civil liberties. But as we wrote in an editorial last month, the worth of any ID-card plan depends strongly on the details. We prodded Mr. Coderre to answer a few simple questions about how the card would work. In particular: Would it be mandatory for all Canadians? Would refugees be required to carry the card? Under what circumstances would card carriers be forced to produce it? How will the integrity of any biometric data encoded on the card be protected? And so on. Unfortunately, Mr. Coderre never responded. But maybe Robert Marleau, the interim Privacy Commissioner, can get some answers. On Thursday, Mr. Marleau submitted testimony to the House of Commons' standing committee on citizenship and immigration, calling on Parliament to reject the ID-card scheme. He put a range of questions to Mr. Coderre -- many mirroring our own. While we disagree with the Commissioner's conclusion that the proposal should be dismissed outright, we applaud his effort to pry answers from the Immigration Minister. Mr. Marleau asked an important question we left out of our August editorial: How much would the card scheme cost? He cited an exploratory 1999 Human Resources Development Canada study to argue the price could run to about $3.6-billion. And given the government's history for bungling similar projects -- the gun registry, most notably -- he suggested it could go much higher. A national ID card is a good idea -- provided the government gets the details right, protects the relevant data from prying eyes and keeps the costs of the program low. We assume Mr. Coderre has ideas about how to accomplish these objectives. It is time for him to make those ideas public. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:16:12 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: More on public rejection of brit ID card The last Quebec provincial government tried very hard to introduce their own scheme for a "National ID Card" complete with biometrics. They also tried to implement a smart medicare card equipped with a computer chip to hold all the carriers medical records. Both schemes are rife with dangers to personal data and privacy. Please note, neither card is in circulation due to the vast, negative opinion of the population. If people in Quebec are smart enough to reject this I fail to see why anyone else in the country would be, in your words, "stupid" enough to accept it. I had three letters published which were critical of the national id card idea. Mind you, there is only so much space on a newspaper editorial page but MP mail boxes are quite large so no one should shy away from that destination. SO on this topic I would quote our moderator and write, "have you written a letter today?" __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract : All Rights Reserved : Without Prejudice __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:17:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Drive-by slaying at party blamed on gang: PUBLICATION: Edmonton Journal DATE: 2003.09.22 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A1 / Front BYLINE: Jim Farrell SOURCE: The Edmonton Journal DATELINE: EDMONTON ILLUSTRATION: Photo: John Lucas, The Journal / Police investigate thescene after the early morning murder outside the Athlone Community League Hall. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Drive-by slaying at party blamed on gang: Victim, 20, gunned down in parking lot of north-side community hall - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= EDMONTON - The crackle of gunfire roused residents of a north Edmonton neighbourhood from their beds in the pre-dawn hours Sunday when a young man was gunned down outside a community hall. Police say the killing -- the city's 12th homicide of the year -- was gang-related. The victim, a 20-year-old black man, as well as his alleged killer were "known to police" and had connections to the city's drug trade. Few residents who lived near the scene of the crime -- Athlone Community Hall at 130th Avenue and 129th Street -- were willing to give their names to reporters who flocked to the scene. "With these kind of guys, you don't want them to know who you are," said one resident who was on the phone with police lodging a noise complaint about the party when shots rang out around 5:30 a.m. "I heard two bangs, like firecrackers," said the man. "My wife turned to me and asked, 'Was that gunfire?' I said, 'I doubt it.'" When the resident looked out his front window, he saw two people running across the parking lot of the community hall. They jumped into their cars and drove away. "I didn't go out in case it was gunfire," the resident said. Many people, including the community league official who is in charge of hall rentals, felt threatened by the type of people who attended the party. When the official came to the hall at 8:30 a.m., he would only give his name as Rick. Rick was initially called at 3 a.m. by residents living near the hall. "I didn't go inside because I was afraid," he said. At least two different factions were represented by the two dozen people at the party, said Staff Sgt. Brian Nowlan of Edmonton police's north division. Police classified the incident as a drive-by killing. The shooting occurred in the middle of the community hall's parking lot. Police found eight shell casings from an automatic pistol at the scene of the shooting. The victim staggered 30 metres onto the sidewalk that rings the hall and collapsed in a pool of blood. He'd been hit at least four times by 9-mm rounds. At that point, witnesses to the shooting began to scream, local residents said. Some yelled out obscenities. One woman was heard to yell: "Oh God, oh God." The assailant jumped into his vehicle and left, heading east on 131st Avenue, Nowlan said. When police responded to the 5:34 a.m. call about the incident, about a dozen people were still at the hall. The DJ who had been hired for the party apparently left before the shooting. Police herded the remaining witnesses inside and began interrogating them. Some said they knew nothing and saw nothing. Others began to talk and gave police a description of the alleged gunman. After several hours of police interrogation, the partiers -- a mixed group of Caucasians, South Asians and blacks -- began to leave the community hall. As some men piled cases of empty beer bottles into the trunk of an Acura sedan, one white woman crouched down and wept as she stared at the place where the victim had collapsed. This is the second time gunplay has broken out at a community hall after the halls were rented for a party by people with gang connections. On Aug. 5, 2001, Jamaican native Julian Donovan Wright and eight others were arrested after 20-year-old Rodney Bailey was shot in the head and another man was stabbed at a reggae hip-hop party in a hall rented out by Steele Heights community league. Bailey and the man who were stabbed at Steele Heights survived. That incident was preceded by a May 2001 drive-by shooting in Clareview in which no one was hurt, but the Clareview drive-by was the first link in a chain of gang-related beatings, shootings and killings. In October 2001, Moriese Laing, a friend of Bailey's, was shot and killed in a parking lot outside the Cristal Lounge on Jasper Avenue. On Sept. 19 last year, Wright, then 20, died after being shot more than a dozen times while sitting in his white sports car in the parking lot of a north Edmonton townhouse. Three months later, on Christmas Eve, 24-year-old Elvir Levic was killed after 25 to 28 young men met in a prearranged brawl in the parking lot of Castle Downs Recreation Centre. Levic was allegedly beaten over the head, then run over. Four days later, police charged Bailey with aggravated assault and possession of an offensive weapon. According to one police officer, Sunday morning's party at Athlone Community Centre was held to commemorate the first anniversary of Wright's death. "There was some animosity between the groups," said Nowlan. Police are now looking for Shaun Toon, a 22-year-old native of Trinidad. Late Sunday, they issued a Canada-wide warrant for Toon on weapons and second-degree murder charges. Two years ago, Toon and another man were charged with firearms possession and stolen property offences after police pulled over their car and searched it. jfarrell@thejournal.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:19:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Brawl injures three (report of shots fired) PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2003.09.21 EDITION: Final SECTION: City PAGE: A11 SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Brawl injures three - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= A large fight broke out early yesterday around 12:45 a.m. near South Keys plaza, sending three people to hospital with stab wounds. At least 25 people were involved the incident, which stemmed from a large house party. Police say the fight appeared to be gang related, and there was a report of shots fired, but no firearms were recovered from the scene. Yesterday, three people were in custody. Charges are pending. Approved: vancouverbc Subject: Brawl injures three (report of shots fired) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2003.09.21 EDITION: Final SECTION: City PAGE: A11 SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Brawl injures three - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= A large fight broke out early yesterday around 12:45 a.m. near South Keys plaza, sending three people to hospital with stab wounds. At least 25 people were involved the incident, which stemmed from a large house party. Police say the fight appeared to be gang related, and there was a report of shots fired, but no firearms were recovered from the scene. Yesterday, three people were in custody. Charges are pending. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:21:35 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: My letter to the Tri-City News Interesting letter and subject. The boy scout nature of Canadian foreign policy seems to have boinked, that is, run into the wall of federal liberal neglect. No one, other country that is, who really matters, gives a rat's behind as to what Canada thinks. Canada doesn't matter. So when well intentioned Canadians talk about child soldiers and their AK47s they should talk to or have our government talk to the east European arsenals who spit out that stuff. For reference to how that would work just ask that Samson fellow. Mind you, "I'm Adrienne Clarkson and you're not", will be in Russia soon. Perhaps one of the tag along wine experts can soften up Putin. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract : All Rights Reserved : Without Prejudice __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:22:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: HUNT ON FOR MALL SHOOTING SUSPECT PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2003.09.22 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 20 BYLINE: MELISSA RIDGEN, CALGARY SUN - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= HUNT ON FOR MALL SHOOTING SUSPECT - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Police have a suspect in the city's latest shooting incident and hope an arrest is imminent. Det. Scott Sampson said two men who were targeted by a gunman have provided limited information about the incident, which occurred following a dispute at the south entrance to Central Landmark mall Friday afternoon. But he said investigators believe they know the identity of a suspect. It isn't clear to police what motivated the attack, cops said. Witnesses said four males, in their late teens or early 20s, were arguing at an entrance to the popular Asian mall, located on 16 Ave. and Centre St. N. The verbal confrontation ended when one young man brandished a gun and opened fire on two others as all three ran through a busy parking lot. Some at the scene said as many as 10 shots were fired from a handgun. One male sustained an arm injury from a fall at the scene and a staff member at a nearby Vietnamese restaurant sustained minor injuries when a stray bullet shattered a window. No one was shot. Though members of the gang unit were called in to assist in the investigation, Sampson said it is now believed the shooting wasn't gang-related. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:23:44 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Ackermann Subject: RE: This man needs a lot of peace. Dear Ellie, Your advice to the woman who falsely accused her husband of assault because she 'was mad at him' was sound, but I think there is something else to be considered. Only once she has shown her willingness to accept full responsibility for her actions will this woman's husband be willing to trust her again. I would suggest she approach the police and admit to fraudulently laying a charge, and then accept whatever legal course of action arises without complaint. In addition to helping her husband to trust her again, this admission will go a long way to assuage the guilt she must be feeling for putting him through undeserved hell. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS Secretary, St. Mary's Shooters Association Box 13, 120 Cameron Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca My Bio: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/mikeack.htm SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #501 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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