From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #511 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, September 24 2003 Volume 06 : Number 511 In this issue: Farmer pays deer price for permit Man arrested for e-mailing death threat NFA MONEY La Presse - An additional $10 million for the firearms registry here here (no subject) Re: NFA MONEY JUSTICE COMMITTEE HAS NO REQUESTS FROM WITNESSES ON PROPOSED From: Re: feds need 10 mil for registry BREITKREUZ ACCUSES EASTER OF MISLEADING THE HOUSE OF COMMONS Annual VIACA Arms and militaria show: September 27&28; Sidney, BC Re: 7300 days ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:50:26 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Farmer pays deer price for permit http://www.canoe.ca/OttawaNews/os.os-09-24-0002.html >From Ottawa Sun Wednesday, September 24, 2003 Farmer pays deer price for permit Claims harassment by MNR over right to kill By TOBI COHEN, Ottawa Sun HE MAY have won the right to kill nuisance deer but now one Lanark farmer says a new irritant's rolled into town -- pesky Ministry of Natural Resources officials. John Vanderspank said MNR officials have been hounding him ever since he began using a renewable MNR-issued permit which allows him to kill up to six deer at a time. Vanderspank said he arrived home after a long day Saturday night to find three armed MNR enforcement personnel pulling into his driveway in two 4-by-4 trucks. NOTHING ILLEGAL Vanderspank said the personnel interrogated him and his wife for three hours, carefully scrutinized the "horrendous" amount of paperwork required for the permit, then left after having found nothing illegal. "It got bad enough that one of the (friends helping kill the deer) was an off-duty police officer and he finally asked them for their badges and told them who he was and got them to back off," Vanderspank said. This, however, said Vanderspank, was not the first time MNR officials have used fear and intimidation against Lanark-area farmers. He said at least one other permit holder reported seeing MNR officials cruising his street on what they called "routine patrol" on a Saturday night. Vanderspank also claims MNR officials have been spreading lies about him in an effort to discredit him and have the entire nuisance-kill permit program disbanded on the basis that farmers are abusing the program. Lanark Landowners Association president Randy Hillier added the permit process itself is not user-friendly. Just getting a permit is tough, he said, as MNR personnel lack the qualifications to assess crop damage, and holders face hours of paperwork just to keep their permits. "This is getting to be ridiculous. We're trading one financial burden of deer for another of having to hire financial assistants to help with the paperwork," he said. Steve Aubry, district enforcement supervisor for the MNR's Kemptville office, characterized last weekend's encounter as routine and chalked up Vanderspank's allegations of intimidation to a matter of interpretation. 'REGULAR INSPECTION' "I would certainly categorize it as doing our regular inspection. We routinely monitor the activities of people that have either permits, authorizations or licences from us," he said. "We basically co-ordinate our activities as to when we expect to encounter people so certainly our conservation officers work weekends and we certainly work outside of the 8-5 business day." Aubry said MNR employees aren't likely to spread defamatory comments and that recent changes to the nuisance-kill policy have actually made getting a permit easier. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:51:07 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Man arrested for e-mailing death threat http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=808FAE44-5862-43A0-AF48-B485ABD4F85F >From Canada.com Man arrested for e-mailing death threat NTR Wednesday, September 24, 2003 A 28-year-old man from the Gaspé was charged Tuesday for threatening the life of Premier Jean Charest at his Montreal office last Friday. Yves Gauthier was arrested at a motel in Chandler after he allegedly sent an e-mail to the premier's office in which he threatened the life of Charest. During a search of the motel room, police discovered an imitation hand gun and illegal drugs. Gauthier appeared at the Percé court house Tuesday to be charged with uttering death threats. He will appear in court again on Thursday. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:51:40 -0600 (CST) From: "BOB LICKACZ" Subject: NFA MONEY In reference to Rick Lowe's posting on pond scum............. I REALLY, REALLY, wonder where all that NFA money went. Bob Lickacz Former NFA Member ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:53:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: La Presse - An additional $10 million for the firearms registry TRANSLATION FROM FRENCH TO ENGLISH PUBLICATION: La Presse DATE: 2003.09.24 SECTION: Canada PAGE: A4 BYLINE: Bellavance, Joel-Denis DATELINE: Ottawa - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= An additional $10 million for the firearms registry - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= The Chrétien government is about to inject an additional $10 million into the controversial firearms registry despite repeated promises in the last 12 months to reduce the cost of the program. This has outraged opposition parties in the House of Commons. Yesterday in the House of Commons the President of the Treasury Board, Lucienne Robillard, tabled supplementary estimates totalling $5.4 billion for the current fiscal year, which will end on March 31, 2004. In the budget document, the Department of the Solicitor General, which has been managing the gun registry since April 14, asks for an additional $10 million to continue operating this program, which by 2005 will have cost taxpayers over $1 billion, or 500 times more than initially anticipated, according to a scathing report by Auditor General Sheila Fraser tabled last December. Last March, the Chrétien government had a motion adopted in the House of Commons approving an additional investment of $59 million in the program. The latest request by Solicitor General Wayne Easter enraged Saskatchewan Alliance MP Gary Breitkreuz, who for several years has led a crusade to force the Liberal government to abolish this program, which he considers completely useless. "This program is well and truly a bottomless pit. But the most frustrating thing about the whole business is that we won't know until the end of this fiscal year exactly how much money the federal government has poured into the program," said Mr. Breitkreuz. The Alliance MP said he was even more indignant that the RCMP, whose job is to fight organized crime and terrorist networks, only got $21.5 million more. "Who is in greatest need of funds, the RCMP or the national arms registry? To ask the question is to answer it. This government's priorities are all wrong," declared Mr. Breitkreuz, who argues that, at this rate, Ottawa is in danger of sinking $2 billion in the program. "The national firearms registry is sinking like the Titanic, but the government is trying to keep it afloat with small lifeboats until the next elections. The program is dead, but the government refuses to admit it," he added. Treasury Board spokesman Mario Baril maintained that the $10 million is not new money, but money rolled over from last year's operating budget at the Department of Justice and intended for the Canadian Firearms Centre. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:00:37 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Thacker" Subject: here here I have to admit Frank Cochran's comments are right on the money. In fact a few of my friends and I have strongly considered leaving the digest for those very reasons. I really do not want to do it as this is an important place where we are able to generate activity important to our cause. There are hard workers out there doing our job for us and getting little recognition. I note that the president of LUFA has been posting here and also emailing lots of folks to come out and do what we can to reelect the conservatives given they are our only hope in Ontario. I am glad he is willing to put the resources of LUFA behind this election. When I have gone to these rallies there does seem to be a good number of hunters there so thanks LUFA. But back to Frank and his point. The RFC, COUFA, LUFA are at least visible and active in fighting this issue. I surely wish we could get this digest back on track instead of being as one of my friends put it +ACI-The police Gazette.+ACI- This might be a good place to get these groups that are doing a good job to unite, (well I doubt we could do that given some of the likely feelings between these groups) but how about developing some links as we expect the Alliance and Conservatives to do. Coordinated action would be a first step. But of course the RFC is not even up and running yet, even thoufgh Al Dorans is working hard at our cause. But that should not prevent him from talking to these other groups. Anyway this is just the ramblings of a tired old man who sees our heritage going down the drain. James W. Thacker, Ph.D. Professor Odette School of Business Windsor, Ontario N9C 3P4 - ----- Original Message ----- From: +ACI-Cdn-Firearms Digest+ACI- +ADw-owner-can-firearms-digest+AEA-sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca+AD4- To: +ADw-cdn-firearms-digest+AEA-sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca+AD4- Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:38 AM Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 +ACM-508 [Please do not attach the entire Digest that you are responding to in your message. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:06:19 -0400 From: Bruce Mills Subject: (no subject) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: NFA MONEY BOB LICKACZ wrote: > > In reference to Rick Lowe's posting on pond scum............. > > I REALLY, REALLY, wonder where all that NFA money went. > > Bob Lickacz > Former NFA Member Wasn't there a COURT ORDER that required the Dynamic Duo to conduct an AUDIT that would have told us exactly that? I REALLY REALLY wonder what happened to that audit. Bruce Former NFA Member ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:55:27 -0600 (CST) From: Don Webb Subject: Re: NFA MONEY How about Jimmie's slug through the wall court case? That must have took a fair chunk! Would definately have paid for a few anti-registry road signs. - --- BOB LICKACZ wrote: > > In reference to Rick Lowe's posting on pond > scum............. > > I REALLY, REALLY, wonder where all that NFA money > went. > > Bob Lickacz > Former NFA Member ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:46:47 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: JUSTICE COMMITTEE HAS NO REQUESTS FROM WITNESSES ON PROPOSED From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca The Clerk of the Justice Committee has advised that they have not received any requests from witnesses wishing to testify before the Committee on the proposed Firearms Act regulations (see below). The Committee only has 30 sitting days to review these regulations or they will become law automatically. (See FA section 118). Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights http://www.parl.gc.ca/infocom/CommitteeMain.asp?Language=3DE&CommitteeID=3D= 3297&Joint=3D0 For more information, please contact : Diane Diotte, Clerk House of Commons EMail : just@parl.gc.ca http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2003/20030621/html/index-e.html Solicitor General, Dept. of the An Act respecting firearms and other weapons Firearms Marking Regulations Regulations Amending the Authorizations to Carry Restricted Firearms and Certain Handguns Regulations Regulations Amending the Authorization to Export or Import Firearms Regulations (Businesses) Regulations Amending the Authorizations to Transport Restricted Firearms and Prohibited Firearms Regulations Regulations Amending the Conditions of Transferring Firearms and other Weapons Regulations Regulations Amending the Firearms Fees Regulations Regulations Amending the Firearms Licences Regulations Regulations Amending the Firearms Registration Certificates Regulations Regulations Amending the Gun Shows Regulations Regulations Amending the Importation and Exportation of Firearms Regulations (Individuals) Regulations Amending the Public Agents Firearms Regulations Regulations Amending the Shooting Clubs and Shooting Ranges Regulations Regulations Amending the Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations Regulations Amending the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms By Individuals Regulations Regulations Repealing the Non-Prohibited Ammunition Transfer Document Regulations - ------------------------------------------------- FIREARMS ACT 118. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the federal Minister shall have each proposed regulation laid before each House of Parliament. (2) Where a proposed regulation is laid pursuant to subsection (1), it shall be laid before each House of Parliament on the same day. Report by committee (3) Each proposed regulation that is laid before a House of Parliament shall, on the day it is laid, be referred by that House to an appropriate committee of that House, as determined by the rules of that House, and the committee may conduct inquiries or public hearings with respect to the proposed regulation and report its findings to that House. Making of regulations (4) A proposed regulation that has been laid pursuant to subsection (1) may be made (a) on the expiration of thirty sitting days after it was laid; or (b) where, with respect to each House of Parliament, (i) the committee reports to the House, or (ii) the committee decides not to conduct inquiries or public hearings. Definition of "sitting day" (5) For the purpose of this section, "sitting day" means a day on which either House of Parliament sits. Exception 119. (1) No proposed regulation that has been laid pursuant to section 118 need again be laid under that section, whether or not it has been altered. Exception -- minor changes (2) A regulation made under section 117 may be made without being laid before either House of Parliament if the federal Minister is of the opinion that the changes made by the regulation to an existing regulation are so immaterial or insubstantial that section 118 should not be applicable in the circumstances. Exception -- urgency (3) A regulation made under paragraph 117(i), (l), (m), (n), (o), (q), (s) or (t) may be made without being laid before either House of Parliament if the federal Minister is of the opinion that the making of the regulation is so urgent that section 118 should not be applicable in the circumstances. Notice of opinion (4) Where the federal Minister forms the opinion described in subsection (2) or (3), he or she shall have a statement of the reasons why he or she formed that opinion laid before each House of Parliament. Exception -- prescribed dates (5) A regulation may be made under paragraph 117(w) prescribing a date for the purposes of the application of any provision of this Act without being laid before either House of Parliament. Part III of the Criminal Code (6) For greater certainty, a regulation may be made under Part III of the Criminal Code without being laid before either House of Parliament. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:47:43 -0600 (CST) From: "John E. Stevens" Subject: Re: feds need 10 mil for registry At 09:52 AM 9/24/2003 -0600, Ross wrote: >The federal Liberals need another 10 million for the firearms registry. >Forget if it works or not, lets just focus on where they should get the >money from. Might I suggest from the House budget, that other relative waste of money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:49:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: BREITKREUZ ACCUSES EASTER OF MISLEADING THE HOUSE OF COMMONS House of Commons Debates Wednesday, September 24, 2003 ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Unedited copy - not official until printed in Hansard * * * =B8 (1420) [English] Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, there may be a new Liberal leader but we have the same old policies of waste and corruption. I refer to the government's supplementary estimates that it has just tabled calling for yet another $10 million to go to the firearms registry. This is after wasting a billion dollars and promising no more money would be spent until the program is fixed. Why, with the new Liberal leader, is the government wasting more money on the firearms registry when it has not even fixed the problems when it wasted a billion dollars? Hon. Wayne Easter (Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I addressed this question yesterday. However I would think that the hon. Leader of the Opposition would be at least a little more forthright. If we turn to the estimates on this money it says that "This amount represents the operating budget carry forward for Justice designated for the Canadian Firearms Centre". There is not one more cent allocated in the supplementary estimates than was previously announced when we put the action plan in place. * * * Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, his own estimates put $10 million under new appropriations for the Canadian Firearms Centre and he should read his own documents. Along the same lines, Human Resources Canada has already been involved itself in a billion dollar boondoggle. The department is under police investigation, yet the minister has been handed an additional $118 million in grants and contributions, exactly the kind of thing that is already being investigated. Once again, why with a new Liberal leader is the government giving even more money to a program before it has even got to the bottom of the things that are under police investigation? Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am sorry I was not paying as close attention as I might have been to the hon. member's question. However I can certainly say in the context of my department when we are looking at the investments that we are making and itemized in the estimates they include the national homelessness initiative, the temporary fisheries program, the Voisey's Bay project that will ensure that aboriginal people in Newfoundland and Labrador are part of that program and additional money to help us with our SARS strategy. Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I guess the speed of that response indicates exactly how in charge they are over there. - --------------------------------------------- Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Solicitor General misled the House. He said there was no new money for the gun registry, but the supplemental estimates show a new appropriation of $10 million. Can the Solicitor General explain why he misled the House yesterday? The Speaker: The hon. member is treading very close to the line and he knows that is contrary to our practice. If he wants to ask a question for clarification, he can ask it. But to suggest that members are misleading the House, I think, is unnecessary during question period. The hon. Solicitor General. Hon. Wayne Easter (Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite, with that kind of remark, is trying to mislead Canadians on what the gun programs cost. That is what he is trying to do. I quoted to the Leader of the Opposition earlier that from the estimates, on page 88, the amount represents the operating budget carried forward forJustice designated to the Canadian Firearms Centre. That is what it represents. There is not a cent of new money mentioned in this document because we established the targets and we are going to meet them. Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton-Melville, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I ask you, and all Canadians, to read page 22 and then find out who is telling the truth. Eight provinces refused to prosecute the gun registry offences. Two-thirds of Canadians do not support this billion dollar boondoggle. Even the Justice Department found 90 major problems in its most recent evaluation. Last week the government refused to answer this question, so I ask the minister once again: How much will it cost to fully implement the gun registry, including fixing all of these 90 problems, and how much will it cost to maintain it? Hon. Wayne Easter (Solicitor General of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would ask the hon. member to go back to the beginning of my response to his first question. Those remarks still stand. If he would read the evaluation, and read it appropriately, he would see that evaluation was done back last spring. We announced an action plan after that. We are on target, in terms of our action plan. We brought efficiencies into the system and we will continue to bring efficiencies into the system. We are continuing to register firearms every day. * * * =B9 (1500) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:03:01 -0600 (CST) From: Don Tarasoff Subject: Annual VIACA Arms and militaria show: September 27&28; Sidney, BC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_NPiqavTkK5mw8fIoUmMTfQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The Vancouver island Arms Collectors' Assn.(Viaca) presents their 42nd Annual Arms and Militaria Show September 27 & 28 at the Mary Winspear Centre, Sanscha hall, in Sidney, just off the pat Bay Highway. doors open at 9 am; over 100 trade and display tables; historic and modern firearms, swords, knives, books and militaria. ample parking; wheelchair accessible for information: call ian haynes at 250-385-6307 [Moderator's Note: Please turn off HTML/MIME and/or "quoted-printable" encoding before posting messages to the Digest - plain text only. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:04:03 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Re: 7300 days paul chicoine wrote: > Somewhere along the line someone once told me that 1 year of prison time > isn't really 365 days. He may have pulling my leg but the claim was holidays > and weekends were deducted from the total. > If anyone reading this could clear up this bit, please do. Let me see if I can remember back about 20 years or so for the specifics... I believe if you're serving longer than two years, you go to a federal pen instead of a provincial institution. The Feds almost always let prisoners out with one third of their time still left to serve - this is called "mandatory supervision". I actually don't have a problem with this - providing everything that is done in theory was also done in fact. Mandatory supervision allows parole officers to keep a pretty tight leash on released prisoners - for example, specifying that they must get and hold a job without absences, stay out of bars, abstain from alcohol, not associate with certain people, etc. The majority of former prisoners who reoffend do so shortly after their release, so it makes sense to me to keep a leash and a close watch on them while giving them and society the best chance for them to get their act together and become reasonably responsible citizens. However, there are more than a few problems with this. First, the reality is that our correctional system does not correct anymore - and it has been a long time since it did. There is little interest - and therefore little government spending - on programs that attempt to straighten out whatever problems prisoners have and get them on the right path. So we just warehouse them with other criminals instead, giving them little better to do than hang out with other criminals and get pissed off. Some people say "so what" as if a comprehensive correctional approach is just limp wristed Liberal hand wringing. It isn't about feeling sorry for prisoners - it's about doing whatever is possible to end up with the highest probability that these people will not reoffend - and possibly end up with you on their list of past victims. The second part of this double whammy is that, once released on mandatory supervision (or any kind of parole), the reality is that parole officers are so understaffed and that those who actually exist have so many prisoners to supervise that it simply doesn't happen. Prisoners who are supposedly being seen several times a week in person by a parole officer are often getting little more than a five minute phone call. Find out who your local parole officers are and ask them how many offenders they have on their case load... and then do the math. So in reality, mandatory supervision ends up being little or no supervision at all because the government is too cheap to spend the money and the public is too cheap to demand they change that attitude. Maybe we see it as being "soft on crime"... I dunno. It gets better. Mandatory supervision is supposedly the "carrot and stick" approach - the early release is the carrot to prisoners to go out and prove they can live within the confines of the law while closely supervised and regulated, the stick was supposed to be that if they screwed up they were back in the slammer. In reality - again because of parole officer understaffing and prison overcrowding - prisoners just don't get breached anywheres near as often as they should when they violate the terms of their mandatory supervision parole. This of course simply serves to prove to them that the rules STILL don't apply to them. And the boys back in the slammer hear of their exploits through the grapevine and accurately realize their chances of being breached once they get out are slim as well. Now add to that quiet correctional service instructions from the minister to start throwing people OUT of jail in order to get numbers down to a more manageable level. God forbid we should spend some of Paul Martin's legacy money on improving the system... A short explanation of why our correctional system is neither a correctional system, nor a penal system, and why it simply isn't working. Just on a point of interest, civilian prisons turn out parolees with about an 80% recidivism rate; the graduates of military prisons only have about a 20% recidivism rate the last time I looked. Military prisons take rehabilitating - not beating as many assume - the members of the military in them very seriously, even if that prisoner is going to be released as unsuitable at the end of their sentence. To that end they put a great deal of time and effort into their correctional system, and the results show what can be possible. But only if you're willing to spend the money, not just talk the talk.... ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #511 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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