From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #528 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, September 30 2003 Volume 06 : Number 528 In this issue: COPS ID SUSPECT GUNMEN 'ARMED AND DANGEROUS' VICTIM GRABS GUN, PAIR FOIL ROBBERY Canadians convicted of weapons negligence; Accidental firing THE GUNMAN RANG ONCE Hunters bag 1,568 moose South Africa: Police can't manage new gun laws alone - DA soldiers discharge rounds found guilty Re: RFC Meeting 29 Sept TV - the great brainwashing machine Canadian soldiers convicted in accidental gun discharges ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:19:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: COPS ID SUSPECT GUNMEN 'ARMED AND DANGEROUS' PUBLICATION: The Winnipeg Sun DATE: 2003.09.30 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 4 ILLUSTRATION: 1. photo of CLINTON ALEXANDER LETANDRE 2. photo of LAWRENCE KEITH MCIVOR BYLINE: CARY CASTAGNA, POLICE REPORTER - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= COPS ID SUSPECT GUNMEN 'ARMED AND DANGEROUS' - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= The manhunt for two gang members wanted in a near-fatal shooting intensified yesterday, while the teenage victim remained in hospital on life support. Winnipeg police released the names and mug shots of the shooting suspects in the hope of generating public tips on their whereabouts, but no arrests had been reported by press time last night. Clinton (Macaroni) Alexander Letandre, 26, and Lawrence Keith McIvor, 26 - -- two Indian Posse (IP) members wanted on a Canada-wide warrant -- face numerous charges, including attempted murder while using a firearm, discharging a firearm with intent, possessing a prohibited loaded firearm and possessing a weapon contrary to a prohibition order. TWO MEN PHONED "They are to be considered armed and dangerous," said Winnipeg police spokesman Const. Bob Johnson. Gene Malcolm, 19, was sitting down to a late-night snack in his parents' home at 135 Hallet St. in Point Douglas shortly before 1 a.m. Friday, when two men phoned and asked him to meet them in the front yard. Malcolm went outside and was met with a bullet, which entered his back and exited his stomach, before lodging in the wall of a nearby home. The bullet damaged his right lung, said a friend. Malcolm, a.k.a. "Mean Gene," was listed in critical but stable condition yesterday at Health Sciences Centre. A Zig Zag associate, Malcolm was a member of the IP until he left the street gang about a year ago, said his father and a close friend. "He is a good kid with a big heart and is very generous to his family and friends," said a friend, who didn't want to be named. "He was trying to get away from IP life." Sources said Malcolm is also a close friend of jailed Hells Angels associate Junior Moar. When contacted at Stony Mountain Institution last night, Moar refused to comment any further than to say, "It's a very unfortunate situation." The shooting was the culmination of a "long-standing feud," added Johnson. McIvor and Letandre may be driving an older-model Chrysler K-car that is dark blue or black. Anyone with information on their whereabouts is asked to call the Winnipeg police gang unit at 986-6048 or Crimestoppers at 786-TIPS (8477). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:20:19 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: VICTIM GRABS GUN, PAIR FOIL ROBBERY PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun DATE: 2003.09.30 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 14 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= VICTIM GRABS GUN, PAIR FOIL ROBBERY - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= A man foiled a holdup by grabbing the barrel of what appeared to be a gun pointed at him. The 33-year-old was in an alley near 138 Avenue and 96 Street shortly before 9 p.m. Sunday when he was held up by two men. One of them had what seemed to be a silver-barrelled handgun. The 33-year-old grabbed it and started yelling for help. His shouts attracted a Good Samaritan and together they put the thugs to flight. "Trying to grab a gun is not recommended," said Edmonton Police Service spokesman Dean Parthenis. "It's a very dangerous thing to do and it would be better to give up whatever the suspects want." Earlier on Sunday, around 2:45 p.m., two 16-year-old boys were walking in the area of 19 Avenue and 50 Street when a man jumped out of a car and held them up at gunpoint. The two teens were forced to hand over their wallets. The thief emptied the wallets, but was later traced by police to a nearby apartment building. Peter Hosein, 19, has been charged with two counts of robbery, possession of a stolen vehicle and possession of a stolen licence plate. Also, two 17-year-old boys have been charged with robbery and possession of a weapon after a man was held up with a samurai sword near 87 Street and Richfield Road around 4 p.m. Saturday. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:29:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Canadians convicted of weapons negligence; Accidental firing PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2003.09.30 SECTION: World PAGE: B15 SOURCE: The Canadian Press BYLINE: Stephen Thorne - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Canadians convicted of weapons negligence; Accidental firing inexcusable, Afghanistan commander says - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Kabul - Two Canadian privates have been convicted of negligence in the accidental discharge of their weapons, bringing to a head concerns over the readiness of guns carried by troops patrolling the Afghan capital. The commanding officer of the Canadian contingent here, Lt.-Col. Don Denne, conducted summary trials and fined the two 20-year-olds $850 and $1,250 respectively for the incidents, which occurred a week apart late last month. Denne said they were inexcusable errors for infantrymen. No one was injured in either incident but, as far as the army is concerned, that is beside the point. "An infantryman must be an expert with his weapon," Denne, a native of Hantsport, declared in an interview Monday. "In a light battalion, that is our bread and butter." The issue of weapons readiness is an important one for the Canadian peace-support mission in Afghanistan. There are 1,950 Canadians serving in Kabul and surrounding areas as part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force. Troops patrolling crowded city streets, back alleys, markets and mountain passes are under general orders to load their weapons - magazines attached - but not to put bullets in the chamber unless confronted with a tangible threat. Chambering bullets involves cocking the weapon, bringing a single bullet into the firing chamber. Firing it requires the safety lever to be off and the trigger to be depressed. Those calls are made by the on-scene commander, usually a master-corporal, a sergeant, a lieutenant or a captain. But his guidance comes from rules set down by Denne and his superiors. Tangible threats are deemed to be hostile action or shots fired, and hostile intent, or hostile weapons cocked or pointed, or a suicide bombing. In both cases involving the privates - one fired off three rounds in an urban street, the other a single round along a rural road - there were no tangible threats, said Denne. In one case, "the platoon commander gave the order to make weapons ready based upon what he considered to be a threat," said Denne. "That was a perceived threat. That is like chasing shadows." Soldiers argue that having to cock their weapons constitutes an unwarranted delay in their response to threats such as car bombers, grenade attacks or mountain ambushes. But Denne and his superiors say that walking around with a bullet in the chamber cancels out a series of measures their soldiers are supposed to take before they ever consider firing a round. "Normally, you are not walking around with a bullet in the chamber because that denies the soldier the opportunity to escalate if he has to," said Canadian Brig.-Gen. Peter Devlin, commander of ISAF' s operational element, the 32-nation Kabul Multi-National Brigade. "There are stages, from verbal warnings to physical warnings to the chambering of a round to the firing of a warning shot to the use of deadly force. And all of those steps are vital to resolving a problem." Chambering rounds, Devlin said Monday, "denies the soldier the freedom to respond" as the threat dictates. Besides, said Denne, the first thing a soldier does when he comes under direct fire is to take cover. Chambering a round - or cocking his weapon - - takes a fraction of a second, and the soldier still has to determine the source of the threat, he notes. The sound of an entire platoon cocking their weapons is a deterrence in and of itself, he added. In the case of a vehicle-borne attack, soldiers would not have time to fire anyway, he said. "So why run the risk of loosing off a round negligently and hitting somebody and making life difficult for your whole bloody organization for the six-month period you're here? "That' s the risk that I' ve got to bear and I'm not prepared to accept that kind of risk." Maj.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, ISAF's deputy commander and the top Canadian soldier in Afghanistan, said the rules of engagement under which the Canadians operate aren't much different than those of other ISAF members. Leslie said soldiers have the latitude to do everything they have to do; the product, he said, of healthy debate among senior officers. "If you' re patrolling in downtown Kabul at the height of a market day and you' ve got a bullet up the spout, two things happen," he said. "One is your response time is lowered and the second thing is there is no going back because you only have a split second to decide. A high-velocity round can go through two or three people, including children. "Then you' ve got a whole other set of issues." Leslie acknowledged that Canadians are taking a degree of risk by requiring foot soldiers to patrol with their weapons loaded but not cocked - vehicles travel with a bullet in the chamber of their 25mm chain guns - but the commanders suggested the trade-offs are worth it. Denne has evoked what he calls the "smile-and-wave campaign," whereby his troops are encouraged to acknowledge the generally warm reception they have been given by locals. He says it's a key element in winning the hearts and minds of the people they have been sent to protect. "You can' t very well, on the one hand, be smiling and waving at folks, trying to win them over while surreptitiously having a round up the spout of your rifle ready to mete out death and destruction," said Denne. "Every time we walk out that gate, all of Canada walks with us. And I don't think Canadians would be particularly impressed if we were going out in any other way than we are right now." Both soldiers convicted for the incidents in Afghanistan - one from November Company. 3rd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, and the other from Para Company - are on their first overseas tours. Both pleaded guilty to the charge of neglect or conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline. The soldier who fired off three rounds while exiting his Iltis vehicle in downtown Kabul also received seven days of extra work and drill on top of his fine, a hefty sum for a low-paid private. "He' s lucky," said Denne. "He's extraordinarily lucky. Exceedingly lucky. He could have hurt or killed one of our soldiers but, worse, he could have hurt or killed an innocent civilian." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:30:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: THE GUNMAN RANG ONCE PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2003.09.30 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 20 BYLINE: IAN ROBERTSON, TORONTO SUN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE GUNMAN RANG ONCE MURDER ATTEMPT AT VICTIM'S DOOR - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A gunman waited until a Markham father peered through the glass on his front door before opening fire early yesterday, leaving the victim terrified but only slightly hurt, police said. Three small-calibre slugs smashed through the glass in an apparent murder bid, scratching and bruising the victim's stomach, Det.-Const. Chris Barrie, of York Regional Police, said. The 39-year-old man was wakened when the doorbell of his darkened Roxbury St. home rang at 12:45 a.m. When he turned on a flashlight and looked out, the gunman called his name. The married victim, whose children were in the house, refused medical treatment, Barrie said. A motive for the shooting remains a mystery. "It doesn't seem to be a scare tactic," Barrie said. If that was the reason, the shooter "would have simply fired through the door without waiting to see someone come," he said. Police interviewed the victim, who appeared cooperative, but Barrie said "we don't have a whole lot to go on." Officers canvassed neighbours last night. Police said the victim said the gunman was white, mid-20s and 5-foot-11. He wore a full beard, dark ball cap and a dark jacket, and spoke with an English accent. Anyone with information is asked to call police 905-773-1221, ext. 7541 or Crime Stoppers, 1-800-222-TIPS (8477). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:31:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Hunters bag 1,568 moose PUBLICATION: The New Brunswick Telegraph Journal DATE: 2003.09.30 SECTION: News PAGE: A1/A8 COLUMN: Provincial News BYLINE: DERWIN GOWAN Telegraph-Journal PHOTO: File/Telegraph-Journal ILLUSTRATION: The province believes that the number of moose in NewBrunswick dropped to 21,000 by late 2002. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Hunters bag 1,568 moose - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Hunters legally killed and registered 1,568 moose in the three-day open season, which ended at sundown Saturday. That adds up to 502 fewer moose than the 2,070 moose registered last year, but still about 178 more than biologists at the Department of Natural Resources hoped for. The biologists counted on a success rate of 50 per cent when they set the number of moose licences at 2,779, which would have yielded about 1,390 moose headed for the freezers of New Brunswick. Instead, the hunters scored a success rate of 56 per cent. Last year, the province issued 4,300 licences. Only 2,070 of these people shot and registered their moose, a success rate of 48 per cent. The government reduced the number of licences this year to compensate for an "overkill," which the Natural Resources estimated at about 2,000 moose. Department spokesman Brent Roy said in a telephone interview from Fredericton that this "overkill" includes moose shot by poachers as well as Aboriginals with treaty rights. Aboriginal organizations have yet to agree on a protocol with the province to share information on how many moose their members kill and, of course, poachers will give not information at all - so the department can only estimate this overkill. Mr. Roy noted that Mi'kmaq and Maliseet chiefs agreed last week to end transfers of moose-meat to non-Aboriginals, a move which Natural Resources Minister Keith Ashfield estimates will save between 450 and 500 moose a year. The department considers this progress from the chiefs' earlier position. "They just didn't want any kind of regulation, period," Mr. Roy said. However, they have yet to agree to share with the department numbers on how many moose their people kill. Mr. Roy said that the department cannot estimate the number of moose Aboriginals kill this year until late in November, after most Mi'kmaq and Maliseet finish their moose hunting. The department has indirect ways to estimate the aboriginal moose-kill, including checking with meat-cutting shops. Natural Resources considers moose one of its success stories in wildlife management. New Brunswick banned moose hunting in 1936, with numbers of these animals dropping dangerously during the Great Depression. The hunt resumed in 1960 when the province issued 400 licences - of which 383 picked up their tags, and 174 bagged their moose. Today, New Brunswick records about 250 highway collisions involving moose every year. In 1974, the province shortened the season from a week to three days, but increased the number of licences to 6,000 compared to 2,500 in 1973. New Brunswick now sets the number of moose licences for each of 27 zones each year, then adds the numbers up to get the provincial total. Natural Resources estimated the number of moose in New Brunswick at 25,000 in 1999. It would like to maintain that number, allowing hunters, aboriginal and otherwise, to take 10 per cent - 2,500 moose - each year. The department believes that the number of moose in New Brunswick dropped to 21,000 by late in 2002. "It's due to the overharvest of moose last year," he said. So, the government cut the licences back this year by 1,521 from the previous year to 2,779. Unless the province and the aboriginals come to an agreement, the biologists will work on an estimate later this year of the aboriginal moose-kill, then add in their best guess on how many the poachers took. The biologists will try to gauge the number of moose in New Brunswick over the winter, then decide whether they should respond to the unexpected kill-rate of 56 per cent in 2003 by reducing the number of licences again next year. Reach our reporter tjmira@nb.aibn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:33:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: South Africa: Police can't manage new gun laws alone - DA http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3D6&art_id=3Dvn20030929025917967C= 483381&set_id=3D1 Police can't manage new gun laws alone - DA September 29 2003 at 02:59AM By Charles Phahlane The government should outsource certain aspects of implementing the new gun laws. This would minimise delays for gun owners and not overburden the police, the Democratic Alliance said on Sunday. Spokesperson Douglas Gibson said there were only 104 000 police officers involved in active police work, instead of the 150 000 needed. "Police officers must not be taken off ordinary policing duties to fill the gap with the new firearm regulations. "If the burden of re-registering millions of firearms is too great, the minister should do himself and gun owners a favour by investigating what aspects can be outsourced to promote efficiency and prevent great irritation." Police want the legislation implemented before the end of this year. All existing gun owners and new owners will have to apply for licences, with private individuals allowed to own one firearm for protection. Owners of additional weapons will have to sell them through a registered gun shop or hand them over to the police for disposal. Gun owners will be tested on their knowledge of the legislation. And as with the recent conversion to card-format driving licences, the process will be phased in for existing gun owners over about five years. The South African Qualifications Authority has developed a training manual for police officers. But the South African Gunowners Association has said the police did not have the capacity to make the law work. The backlog at the central firearms registry in Pretoria was already affecting thousands of gun owners. Whereas it previously took three weeks for a firearm licence to be granted, it now took more than four months. This article was originally published on page 5 of The Star on September 29, 2003 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:34:38 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: soldiers discharge rounds found guilty "The sound of an entire platoon cocking their weapons is a deterrence in and of itself, he added." As the enemy, it would tell me that my opposition was and is not prepared. time to open fire and let them have it. Whereas a platoon locked and loaded may in unison raise their weapons remove the safety and fire , it would be time to rethink my actions. or expect to meet Allah. I wonder if the US troopers, the brits etc all carry unloaded weapons in a combat zone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:36:46 -0600 (CST) From: Maurice Curtis Subject: Re: RFC Meeting 29 Sept Athens Ontario Firearm's and Property Rally Packs' Joshua Bates Center. Concerned citizens enjoyed an information session conducted by Gord Brown of the Recreational Firearms Office of Ottawa. While all provincial candidates were invited to explain their party position on the firearms act and property rights, only Bob Runciman accepted the invitation. One could not listen to Canadian Alliance MP Garry Breitkreuz without comprehending how the heavy hand of the federal government was affecting provincial funding and thus attempting to control provincial elections. Billions wasted on federal boondoggles explained why healthcare and education in all provinces is suffering. Various signs depicted numerous liberal promises which have never achieved fulfilment. Cancel NAFTA. Cancel the GST. $2 million dollar firearm registry. Even a sign referring to lax immigration policies was in evidence. The federal liberal treatment of pedophiles was described and the fact that Ontario has a registry while the Feds refuse registration. Professor Al Dorans reflected that the Federal Liberal Government is more inclined to register law-abiding firearms owning tax-payers rather than register pedophiles. As well, he noted that Ontario and Alberta are the only two "have" provinces---- and are also conservative governed. Why would anyone want a change from success? After all this; one would wonder why Dalton McQuinty would admit phoning Prime Minister Chretien for advice. Why would anyone vote for someone who takes advice from one who never keeps his promises? Maurice Curtis 613-928-2576 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:38:23 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: TV - the great brainwashing machine >Big difference. Gays are a prefered group by this government, we're not. >It's acceptable now that the gay lifestyle is an option, not some mental >disorder or sin. > >However, owning a gun is looked down upon and thought of as anti-social and >bordering on criminal behaviour. Guns are just not acceptable in todays >society, therefore, the constant barrage of laws against them are >inevitable. > >Welcome, to the new age of think/speak. > >JP Poulin You can thank the television for that. I call it the Great Brainwashing Machine (GBM). When television was in its infancy, guns were a tool used by the good guys. Remember "Ponderosa" and "The Rifleman"? They were citizens who carried guns and were the good guys. Who carries guns now (on TV that is)? It is criminals and government agents (police). Young adults have grown up watching TV for decades that showed us that guns are bad, therefore, people who use them are bad or use them in the service of the government. The government learned that the TV is an excellent brainwashing device decades ago and has been using it ever since. Notice how current shows "tackle the issues"? They are telling us what to think, over and over again. If you don't get the message the first few times, you will get it after hearing it, hundreds of times, on different shows and from different actors. Just flip the switch on that lobotomy box, and there will always be an announcer there to tell us what to think. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:42:43 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Canadian soldiers convicted in accidental gun discharges > KABUL (CP) - Two Canadian privates have been convicted of negligence in the > accidental discharge of their weapons, bringing to a head concerns over the > readiness of guns carried by troops patrolling the Afghan capital. And so they should have been (after all, they are Canadian soldiers, not American pilots who can expect little more than a slap on the wrist for killing the wrong people). However... what is this bullcrap about "bringing to a head concerns over the readiness of guns". What concerns? And where has this concern been brewing? In the mind of some chairborne garritrooper? > No one was injured in either incident but, as far as the army is concerned, that > is beside the point. That is so... however... > Troops patrolling crowded city streets, back alleys, markets and mountain passes > are under general orders to load their weapons - magazines attached - but not to > put bullets in the chamber unless confronted with a tangible threat. ... > Those calls are made by the on-scene commander, usually a master-corporal, a > sergeant, a lieutenant or a captain. But his guidance comes from rules set down > by Denne and his superiors. Of course... now I remember why I left the military after Yugo... Denne and the chairbound ladder climbers who he answers to aren't going to be walking point while patrolling through the boonies, where somebody with a rifle could pop out mere feet in front of them. Nor will Denne be patrolling down those dark back alleys at night, where every doorway could hold an assailant who could attack from mere feet away. No, all Denne will have to do is run the memorial service and utter noble words when some poor young bastard gets his ticket punched - not much risk in that. Because instead of just flipping the safety to fire with his thumb as his finger went to the trigger and having at least a chance of beating his attacker to the shot, he died with his right hand half a foot away from the trigger, fumbling around under the back of his Elcan scope trying to pull the charging handle back to chamber a round. As usual, those who don't put their asses on the line make the rules. And those rules say the guys on the pointy end of the bayonet have to put THEIR asses on the line because an accident just might hurt some senior officer's career progression. Better your life goes down the tubes than my chances of being CDS, pal... > Soldiers argue that having to cock their weapons constitutes an unwarranted > delay in their response to threats such as car bombers, grenade attacks or > mountain ambushes. Exactly. But what the hell would they know - they're only trained infanteers. Whatever makes them think they know more about the business of being a line doggy than some puffed up NDHQ Rupert? What are the odds that JTF2 are wandering around Afghanistan, obediently carrying their weapons unloaded in compliance with this idiot? > "Normally, you are not walking around with a bullet in the chamber because that > denies the soldier the opportunity to escalate if he has to," said Canadian > Brig.-Gen. Peter Devlin, commander of ISAF's operational element, the 32-nation > Kabul Multi-National Brigade. And walking around WITHOUT a round up the spout denies the soldier the opportunity to live if they are suddenly attacked. > "There are stages, from verbal warnings to physical warnings to the chambering > of a round to the firing of a warning shot to the use of deadly force. And all > of those steps are vital to resolving a problem." > > Chambering rounds, Devlin said Monday, "denies the soldier the freedom to > respond" as the threat dictates. Crap. Bullshit. Drivel. Somebody take that man out back for a headspacing and timing. You can still talk with a round up the spout. You can still give physical warnings with a round up the spout. Chambering a round in the face of potentially lethal force means only that you're just as stupid as all those movie actors who are always cycling the slide on their pump shotguns and semiautomatic handguns - if it wasn't loaded before that, you're an idiot. You don't think all the cops in Canada are wandering around with empty chambers in their service sidearms, do you General Devlin? Yet those police face a far milder threat than our soldiers do. Are the lives of the troopies worth less than the lives of the police? Obviously - at least as far as Canadian generals and colonels are concerned. > Besides, said Denne, the first thing a soldier does when he comes under direct > fire is to take cover. Chambering a round - or cocking his weapon - takes a > fraction of a second, and the soldier still has to determine the source of the > threat, he notes. Bullshit. All together now, boys and girls: what is the immediate action drill for being ambushed? That's right class - charge into and through the ambush firing your rifle as quickly as possible. I would also note that when somebody with a rifle pops out of a fighting hole fifteen feet in front of you, you don't need a whole lot of time to "determine the source of the threat". And you have no time or space whatsoever to run around taking cover. This is already among our "lessons learned". In fact, the US learned it yet again during Vietnam, and they ultimately (and effectively) responded with a "quick kill" instinctive shooting course developed by Lucky McDaniel which in a matter of days trained recruits to shoot metal disks the size of quarters out of the air using a BB gun without sights at about 15' > The sound of an entire platoon cocking their weapons is a deterrence in and of > itself, he added. This man has watched too much TV. To me, the sound of an enemy force cocking their weapons is a signal that I am being opposed by poorly led idiots who are always going to be one step behind me because they are thinking in terms of responding to effective fire - not in terms of beating it to the punch. And if I do decide to attack, my men are all going to get two or three shots at the opposing force before they can respond by taking their weapons off safe. I like those odds - for me. Not for the poor schmucks being told to cock their weapons to deter someone. In the present case, somebody who probably doesn't know they are supposed to be fearful because somebody cocked a weapon. > In the case of a vehicle-borne attack, soldiers would not have time to fire > anyway, he said. Oh, I see. Cops back home in Canada can manage to unholster their sidearm and fire at a vehicle threat, but our dumb soldiers who are patrolling with a weapon already in their hands are too thick and slow to do the same thing. Got it... > "So why run the risk of loosing off a round negligently and hitting somebody and > making life difficult for your whole bloody organization for the six-month > period you're here? > > "That's the risk that I've got to bear and I'm not prepared to accept that kind > of risk." Aha! The crux of the matter! A negligent discharge could make life difficult for the senior officers on the tour and put their grandiose schemes and dreams of glory at risk. Well, we won't have THAT! So let's risk the men's lives instead. > Leslie acknowledged that Canadians are taking a degree of risk by requiring foot > soldiers to patrol with their weapons loaded but not cocked - Coyote and LAV-3 > armoured vehicles travel with a bullet in the chamber of their 25mm chain guns - > but the commanders suggested the trade-offs are worth it. Oh, okay, a loaded 5.56 is overly dangerous, but a 25mm chain gun is no big deal. > Denne has evoked what he calls the "smile-and-wave campaign," whereby his troops > are encouraged to acknowledge the generally warm reception they have been given > by locals. He says it's a key element in winning the hearts and minds of the > people they have been sent to protect. > > "You can't very well, on the one hand, be smiling and waving at folks, trying to > win them over while surreptitiously having a round up the spout of your rifle > ready to mete out death and destruction," said Denne. God, this man sounds like he got his training at the Robert MacNamara School of military tactics. I'm willing to bet most afghanis would be absolutely flabbergasted to find out our troops are patrolling with unloaded firearms. > "Every time we walk out that gate, all of Canada walks with us. And I don't > think Canadians would be particularly impressed if we were going out in any > other way than we are right now." I think a suprising number of Canadians would be disgusted to hear all of this. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #528 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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