From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #536 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, October 2 2003 Volume 06 : Number 536 In this issue: Election Re: Your Thoughts on Licensing Re- Re: Re: Back Stabbing No One credits gun registry Soldiers stranded as Clarkson uses backup plane Re: No One credits gun registry Re: GUN MURDERS PLUMMET STATSCAN REPORTS 42-YEAR LOW FOR 2002 SPEAKER RULES CAUCHON DIDN'T MISLEAD THE HOUSE protest visuals CFD 534 Subject: PAL refund: $10;$20;or$30 Easter says he'll try to expand sex-offender registry to suit provinces RE: CFD 534 Subject: PAL refund: $10;$20;or$30 Letter to Toronto Star ... CDC: More study is needed on gun laws ASSEMBLY OF FIRST NATIONS $100,000 FIREARMS INITIATIVE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:52:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Earlene Hart" Subject: Election Last night all that was rolling across TV screen was that the Liberals have won. The election is TODAY not yesterday. This is mass manipulation and wrong. Please all gun owners get your family together and go and vote. As Ernie Eves has said he won his first election by 6 votes. Your vote does count. Don't let anyone ever let you think that you do not count. E. Hart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:52:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Al Muir" Subject: Re: Your Thoughts on Licensing - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yvon Dionne" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 2:18 AM Subject: Re: Your Thoughts on Licensing > But I am ready to accept a FAC for Possession and Acquisition, only if the > license is issued for life, like the hunter's certificate (in Quebec at > least). Well said and a much needed clarification Yvon. Perhaps we should begin speaking about a name for such a document. Something as simple as a Firearms Certificate (FC) may do. In past I suggested on the CFD it might be called a Firearms Control Certificate(FCC). Public perception of its value would be enhanced by the addition of the word control Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:26:58 -0600 (CST) From: Bill Subject: Re- Re: Re: Back Stabbing >> The Chef was doing his duty as a good citizen by defending the manager from the >> attacks of the robbers. Defense of self and others gives him justification to >> use reasonable force to discontinue those attacks. >> >> This guy's a hero, not a criminal. > > >I think that he was being sarcastic. But had the chef shot him, he would be up on charges.. Guaranteed.. Its not the action, but the tool used! Knives are MUCH more acceptable than guns.. That's why death by stabbing is at a all-time high, and the gun control groups hailing an all-time low in gun deaths are silent as expected! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:29:54 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: No One credits gun registry With crime stats down..not one of the Politicnas or their NGO whores will say that the registry was the cause of the drop in gun crime. Not one. What this says is that the registry is of no effect on gun crime. Toronto has had the highest number of murders. Toronto has also focused more on stopping the illegal flow of weapons This has had a direct impact on gun crime, not any one piece of legislation that the politicians or their NGO whores who are prepared to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of any Canadian in order to obtain their idea of Utopia. While they try to claim credit, there are more than enough reasons why the drop has occured, most of which has little or nothing to do with gun control. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:26:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Soldiers stranded as Clarkson uses backup plane http://www.nationalpost.com/utilities/story.html?id=4582301F-3953-48E1-839C-DD695D35C99D Soldiers stranded as Clarkson uses backup plane Troops were to fly back to home base from Bosnia Chris Wattie National Post Thursday, October 02, 2003 The homecoming for 150 Canadian soldiers who were to fly back to their Edmonton base last week after a six-month tour in Bosnia has been delayed for up to 11 days, because the only backup for their military transport plane was taking the Governor-General on a much-criticized world tour. Canadian Forces spokesmen said the soldiers' return to Canada was delayed on Saturday when a mechanical problem grounded their CC-150 Polaris transport, the military version of the Airbus A-310. "That aircraft developed a hydraulic leak in Edmonton and was unfortunately grounded for 24 hours," said Captain Dave Muralt, a spokesman for the First Canadian Air Division in Winnipeg. "So that one chalk [load of troops] had to be cancelled." The air force has five Polaris transports, but Capt. Muralt said two of them are mainly cargo carriers, a third is undergoing maintenance and the fourth is in "VVIP configuration," to fly Adrienne Clarkson on a 20-day, $1-million tour of northern nations. Without a backup, the military had to squeeze returning soldiers on to later flights or fly them home on commercial airlines. Capt. Muralt said some of the troops are still waiting for a flight. "The delay could have been up to 11 days," he said. Said Jay Hill, the Canadian Alliance defence critic: "This is inexcusable. These [soldiers] have waited months to be reunited with their families and it's indefensible that they'd be forced to wait because of this high-priced junket by the Governor-General." Defence officials could not say whether the aircraft carrying Mme. Clarkson on her tour would have been available to pick up the soldiers in Bosnia had it not been with the Governor-General. But the "VVIP" Polaris can be converted to a troop carrier and was used last month to carry Canadian soldiers to Kelowna, B.C., to fight forest fires that threatened the city. Elsie Wayne, the Conservative defence critic, said Mme. Clarkson should have known better than to use a military aircraft. "For the Governor-General to be using that Airbus when it was needed by Canadian soldiers, well, I'm just absolutely dumfounded," she said. "That's a disgrace." While the soldiers were waiting on the tarmac in Bosnia, the Governor-General was arriving to a red-carpet welcome at the northern Russian city of Salekhard, visiting monuments and museums, and meeting with regional officials and attending a state dinner hosted by the regional governor. Ms. Clarkson later dropped the puck at the ceremonial face-off of an informal hockey game between local officials and some of the 59 Canadian delegates who joined her on the trip. Mme. Clarkson has defended her decision to spend $1-million, over and above her $17-million annual budget, on the trip to three northern nations, accompanied by Canadian intellectuals, cultural figures, scientists, artisans, ambassadors and political activists. "It's in the process of things that are done between countries," Mme. Clarkson told Global National before leaving on the trip. "We've got a wonderful delegation and we've got a wonderful message." Mme. Clarkson began her trip in Russia and will travel on to Finland and Iceland before returning to Canada on Oct. 15. She has provoked outrage for inviting 59 Canadian personalities -- including Kevin McMahon, a filmmaker who recently completed a documentary about Mme. Clarkson and her philosopher husband, John Ralston Saul. The soldiers left in Bosnia are among about 1,200 Canadian troops, most of them from the 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, being rotated home from Bosnia after spending more than six months with a NATO-led peacekeeping force in the former Yugoslavia. They are being replaced by a battle group based on the Royal Canadian Dragoons regiment, of Petawawa, Ont., effective Oct. 8. cwattie@nationalpost.com © Copyright 2003 National Post ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:43:56 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: No One credits gun registry ross wrote: > While they try to claim credit, there are more than enough reasons why the > drop has occured, most of which has little or nothing to do with gun > control. Repeat after me: "Correlation is not causation". Murders overall are up, although murders with guns are down. Like suicide, this just shows that people will still kill other people, they will just use different methods. Murders with hanguns are up, which puts the lie to the effectiveness of "gun control" - handguns have been severely regulated since 1934. Of course, the antis will claim that this simply justifies the banning of handguns altogether... Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:44:33 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Powlesland Subject: Re: GUN MURDERS PLUMMET STATSCAN REPORTS 42-YEAR LOW FOR 2002 On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, The Toronto Sun wrote: > Ryerson University justice studies Prof. Wendy Cukier credited the > national gun registry for playing a major role in the dramatic drop > in firearm murders since 1961. > > "In spite of the vocal opposition, the trends in homicides, in > robberies with firearms and in firearm death and injury suggest that > Canada is on the right track," Cukier said. Interesting. In the other news reports, Wendy denied any link to the registry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:26:04 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: SPEAKER RULES CAUCHON DIDN'T MISLEAD THE HOUSE October 1, 2003 - SPEAKER RULES CAUCHON DIDN'T MISLEAD THE HOUSE http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/speeches/sept-30-2003b.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:26:53 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Mauser Subject: protest visuals Help wanted. I'm looking for visuals -- photos or videos -- of Canadians protesting C-68 for use in an "educational' video to promote gun rights. The video is being put together by WFSSA; we need these visuals asap. CILA has worked with WFSSA in presenting to the UN. For more information about WFSSA, check out their website, http://www.wfsa.net . If you would be willing to let us have copies of your photos or videos, we'd be delighted to give you credit. Unfortunately, there is no budget to pay for them. We can only offer 'fame' -- not riches. Please contact myself or Peter Allen in Australia, , to submit the visuals. Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to be. Gary Mauser Professor Simon Fraser University Thought for the day: "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or laborer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." - -- George Orwell, quoted in Michael Shelden, Orwell: The Authorized Biography (New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1991), p. 328. - --Boundary_(ID_WZrW5IdF4RFE8P6mOZiZJQ) Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Help wanted. I'm looking for visuals -- photos or videos -- of Canadians protesting C-68 for use in an "educational' video to promote gun rights. The video is being put together by WFSSA; we need these visuals asap. CILA has worked with WFSSA in presenting to the UN. For more information about WFSSA, check out their website, 1A19,1A19,FFFEhttp://www.wfsa.net . If you would be willing to let us have copies of your photos or videos, we'd be delighted to give you credit. Unfortunately, there is no budget to pay for them. We can only offer 'fame' -- not riches. Please contact myself or Peter Allen in Australia, <, to submit the visuals. Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to be. Gary Mauser Professor Simon Fraser University Thought for the day: "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or laborer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." - -- George Orwell, quoted in Michael Shelden, Orwell: The Authorized Biography (New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1991), p. 328. - --Boundary_(ID_WZrW5IdF4RFE8P6mOZiZJQ)-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:59:38 -0600 (CST) From: awpaob@telus.net Subject: CFD 534 Subject: PAL refund: $10;$20;or$30 ? I just talked with CFC & was informed that the renewal fee for a PAL for Long Guns & Restricted was still $80.00, Does anyone have any firm knowledge different from this. Al "FREEDOM" For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:07:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Easter says he'll try to expand sex-offender registry to suit provinces PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2003.10.02 EDITION: EARLY SECTION: News PAGE: A3 BYLINE: Janice Tibbetts SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen DATELINE: LA MALBAIE, Que. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Easter says he'll try to expand sex-offender registry to suit provinces - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- LA MALBAIE, Que. -- Solicitor General Wayne Easter promised yesterday to do what he can in the next week to expand his proposed sex-offender registry to include offenders now in prison, rather than restricting it to people who have not yet been sentenced. The prospect of last-minute changes to his legislation, which is in the final stages of the parliamentary process, are the result of a unanimous warning from provincial governments that the registry will be gutless if it excludes known sex offenders like Karla Homolka and Karl Toft. "I made a commitment to the ministers here that we will look at what's possible in drafting an amendment," Mr. Easter said at the end of a two-day meeting of federal and provincial justice ministers and solicitors general. "I think the benefit to the Canadian public is that the registry will start with a greater list of names." The federal government introduced a bill last year that would require sex offenders to register addresses and phone numbers with police within 15 days of leaving prison and update the information annually, possibly for the rest of their lives. Some provincial ministers praised the federal move to expand the registry. Others said it still doesn't go far enough because it does not include offenders who have served their time and are back on the street. Alberta, for instance, has identified 27 sex offenders at risk of re-offending who will not be included in the registry because they've already served their time, provincial Solicitor General Heather Forsyth said. Manitoba Justice Minister Gord Mackintosh said he was looking for a firm commitment from the federal government for an expanded registry and that Mr. Easter's promise to take a serious look is the "bare minimum" that will satisfy the provinces. Until now, Mr. Easter has rejected widespread calls for registry expansion, arguing the government must limit the registry because it would otherwise be vulnerable to court challenge under the Charter of Rights from prisoners who had already paid their debt to society. "My serious concern about this national sex offender registry is that when we bring it in, it works without unnecessary challenges," he said. Quebec shares the federal government's reservations, said Public Safety Minister Jacques Chagnon. But most other provinces contend that their legal experts believe an expansive registry would be charter proof. Ontario, which went ahead with its own registry three years ago, includes past offenders. Several provinces, along with the Canadian Alliance, had pushed for years for a registry to enable police to more quickly track abducted children in the crucial few hours after they disappear. The registry, which Easter said he hopes will be running by next year, will impose criminal sanctions, including jail terms, on sex offenders who fail to keep police apprised of their whereabouts. Both levels of government are mindful that time is running out for federal legislation that has not yet passed Parliament because everything is expected to be reviewed once Paul Martin becomes prime minister early next year. If the government passes the sex offender legislation without amendment, Easter said, it can be expanded in the future. - ----------------------------------------------------- "The Solicitor General says criminals are protected by the Privacy Act but not law-abiding gun owners!" http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/guns84.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:41:45 -0600 (CST) From: "RFOCBC" Subject: RE: CFD 534 Subject: PAL refund: $10;$20;or$30 There has been no change to the fees for RENEWING A PAL. Previous posts were referring to individuals who had (have) an unexpired FAC and are (were) applying for a PAL. It is probable that hundreds of thousands met the criteria for reduced fees. Refunds will be issued by the CFC if requested (a few times). See the Firearms Fees Regulations for details and to see if you qualify for a reduction/refund. RFOCBC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Letter to Toronto Star ... Rate of gun-related deaths drops to an all-time low ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, I read with interest Mr. O'Hanlan's analysis of the Satistics Canada release (ISSN 0827-0465) regarding the 2002 Homicide rates. In keeping, I felt a quick glance at the original data was in order. Turns out, it was! He reports that Wendy Cukier of the Coalition for Gun Control "stops short of crediting the federal Gun Registry", as well she should. Perhaps Mr. O'Hanlan could not explain why Stats Canada indicated that "Handguns accounted for two thirds of the 149 homicides committed by firearms in 2002, up from about one half ... and three quarters of those handguns (72%) were not registered.". Unable to reconcile this, Mr. O'Hanlan simply ommitted this very telling fact. The report goes on to indicate that two thirds of the people convicted of homicide had a previously been convicted of a violent offense. Imagine my surprise at such a stunning and unexpected revelation! Mr. O'Hanlon it seems to feel that this news doesn't make good reading either, and so has neglected to report it. Handguns have been registered in Canada since 1934. It is evident that the Firearms Registry is not having the desired impact on the importation of illegal firearms for criminal purposes, and yet is costing Canadians billions of dollars to no good end. Given the Stats Can report, it occurs to me that a registry of convicted felons and their current whereabouts might be a bit more useful to police than an error filled and incomplete list of firearms. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:58:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: CDC: More study is needed on gun laws http://www.nj.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-10/1065123546148550.xml CDC: More study is needed on gun laws By KRISTEN WYATT The Associated Press 10/2/2003, 4:15 p.m. ET ATLANTA (AP) — A sweeping federal review of the nation's gun control laws — including mandatory waiting periods and bans on certain weapons — found no proof they reduce firearm violence. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention appointed a task force of scientists to conduct the review, which could be used to undercut the gun-control movement. The CDC said the report, released Thursday by the agency, suggests more study is needed, not that gun laws don't work. But the agency said it has no plans to spend more money on firearms study. Some conservatives have said that the CDC should limit itself to studying diseases, and some have complained in the past that the agency has used firearms-tracking data to subtly push gun control. In fact, since a 1996 fight in Congress, the CDC has been prohibited from using funds to press for gun control laws. Since then, the task force reviewed 51 published studies about the effectiveness of eight types of gun-control laws. The laws included bans on specific firearms or ammunition, measures barring felons from buying guns, and mandatory waiting periods and firearm registration. None of the studies were done by the federal government. In every case, a CDC task force found "insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness." "I would not want to speculate on how different groups may interpret this report," said Dr. Sue Binder, Director of CDC's Center for Injury Prevention and Control. "It's simply a review of the literature." Most of the studies were not funded by the CDC. Gun-control advocates quickly called on the government to fund better research. "There have not been enough good surveys to know whether these laws work, and that's a very sad and troubling fact," said Peter Hamill, spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The National Rifle Association said it needed more time to review the report before commenting on it. Firearms injuries were the second leading cause of injury deaths, killing 28,663 people in 2000, the most recent year for which data was available. About 58 percent of the deaths were suicides. Gun accidents claimed about 775 lives that year. About the only conclusion the task force could draw from the surveys was that mandatory waiting periods reduced gun suicides in people over 55. But even that reduction was not big enough to significantly affect gun suicides for the overall population. The task force complained that many of the studies were inconsistent, too narrow, or poorly done. "When we say we don't know the effect of a law, we don't mean it has no effect. We mean we don't know," said Dr. Jonathan Fielding, chairman of the CDC task force. "We are calling for additional high-quality studies." Among the problems: _ Studies on firearm bans and ammunition bans were inconsistent. Some showed the bans decreased violence; others found the bans actually increased violence. Many firearm bans grant exemptions to people who already owned the weapons, making it hard to tell how well a ban worked. Other evidence showed that firearms sales go up right before bans take effect. _ Studies on background checks were also inconsistent, with some showing decreased firearm injuries and others showing increased injuries. A major problem with those studies, the report said, was that "denial of an application does not always stop applicants from acquiring firearms through other means." _ Only four studies examined the effectiveness of firearm registration on violent outcomes, and all of the findings were again inconsistent. _ Too few studies have been done on child-access gun laws to gauge their effectiveness. _ Study periods often are too narrow to tell whether gun laws work. The task force noted that "rates of violence may affect the passage of firearms laws, and firearms laws may then affect rates of violence." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:13:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: ASSEMBLY OF FIRST NATIONS $100,000 FIREARMS INITIATIVE BREITKREUZ ACCESS TO INFORMATION REQUEST - July 11, 2003 A Question Period Briefing Note prepared for the Minister on November 27, 2002 titled: "FIREARMS AND ABORIGINAL PEOPLE" states: "The Canadian Firearms Centre [exempted section 21(1)(a)] has concluded an agreement with the Assembly of First Nations to provide firearms services to First Nation communities in the western jurisdictions, including Saskatchewan." Please provide a copy of the agreement referred to in the Minister's briefing note including copies of any related financial agreements, grants and contributions, contracts and statements of work. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE RESPONSE - September 29, 2003 Recipient: Assembly of First Nations - - 9-page Project Funding Agreement for $75,000 dated February 20, 2002 - - 2-page Contract Extension dated October 22, 2002: "This letter will serve as notice from the Department of Justice to the Assembly of First Nations that the Project Funding Agreement be amended to include and extension of [ exempted s. 19(1) ] contract for an amount of up to $25,781.25 over the period October 18, 2002 to March 31, 2003." A. Purpose of agreement A.1 The purpose of this agreement is to set out the terms under which the Department will provide funding to the Recipient under the Department of Justice - Firearms Funding Program to cover the costs of professional services and operating costs for the Assembly of First Nations (AFN) associated with the implementation of a first phase of a First Nations Firearms Initiative in the Northwest Region. The CFC/AFN Joint Technical Working Group (JTWG) will oversee the work of the initiative. It is proposed that this initiative will start February 18, 2002 and be completed by October 18, 2002. B. Work plan B.1 The recipient, the Assembly of First Nations (AFN) has proposed the deployment of up to four First nations firearms officers who will provide firearms services to First Nations communities throughout the Northwest Region (the prairie provinces, British Columbia, Yukon and the Northwest Territory. Working out of Edmonton, these officials will provide/and or coordinate administrative, program and service delivery functions among First Nations and their members, both on and off reserves, and within the parameters of the Canadian Firearms Program. - ---------------------------------- RESULTS ACHIEVED Column: Most aboriginals ignore gun registry: Ottawa hired counsellors to help promote registry http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/Article143.htm National Post - Natives refusing to register guns, documents show: http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/Article144.htm LIBERALS UNDER THE GUN AS MAJORITY OF ABORIGINALS BOYCOTT GUN REGISTRY http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/guns89.htm ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #536 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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