From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #566 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, October 11 2003 Volume 06 : Number 566 In this issue: Who ordered demerger probe by Surete? Louisville Sluggers, burly friends are effective deterrents, Re: ID Cards Re: BC Firearms License My letter to the Montreal Gazette My letter to the Edmonton Sun RE:BC hunter charged with unauthorized possesion ofa firearm and father Insane Quebecers Re: Gem thief shoots jeweller Re: Insane Quebecers Letters to Canoe.ca "Your View" My letter to Canoe.ca Your View CF ID Cards Ruined Duck Hunt near Davidson, SK (no subject) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:03:21 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Who ordered demerger probe by Surete? ""I said (to the investigator) we're not terrorists. You can't stop people from speaking their minds," Gadbois said yesterday. The officer, she said, told her he was doing "preventive analysis." Though the SQ investigations were not of a criminal nature, Chagnon said they could have the effect of making people afraid to speak their minds." http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id=CA63DD87-9FC2-4F 5B-A5F4-1C6FCB21786D NEWS STORY Who ordered demerger probe by Sûreté? Police not saying. Chagnon orders halt to 'ridiculous' action LINDA GYULAI The Gazette; CP contributed to this report Saturday, October 11, 2003 A former Dollard des Ormeaux city councillor says the provincial police compiled a list of about 25 Montreal Island demerger and English-rights activists and questioned him last week about whether they are a "threat to society." The names, said Bill Spears, included former Westmount mayor Peter Trent; Beaconsfield /Baie d'Urfé borough chairperson Anne Myles; Pointe Claire borough chairperson Bill McMurchie; lawyer Peter Blaikie; and former Equality Party leader Keith Henderson. The revelation followed a storm touched off yesterday by news the Sûreté du Québec questioned demerger activists in Longueuil about their activities. Premier Jean Charest denounced the SQ's actions. Still, Public Security Minister Jacques Chagnon's office confirmed that SQ officers also had meetings outside Longueuil, including "maybe" Quebec City and "maybe" Montreal. However, Sébastien Lachaîne, Chagnon's deputy chief of staff, added he could not confirm or deny Spears's details. "For us, it's closed," Lachaîne said of the SQ checks, which Chagnon ordered to halt yesterday. "It was not the best idea. ... We just wanted an end to it." Questions still loom over who ordered the SQ checks. Lachaîne said Chagnon does not plan to order an inquiry. But that doesn't sit well with demerger activists. McMurchie, for instance, called for an inquiry. "It was not just some policeman who got up from his cup of coffee and said, 'Well, I think I'll go look at the terrorists in Brossard or Pointe Claire.' Somebody gave that order." Others on the list named by Spears also expressed outrage. "I think it's absolutely disgusting," Trent said. "A threat to the state? Oh, my God, I don't know what to say. ... This is beyond Kafkaesque, this is police state." Trent wondered why the SQ investigated in the Montreal police department's jurisdiction. Myles said she was "completely baffled" by the investigation. Henderson called the investigation "a witchhunt." Blaikie did not return calls. Spears said he was phoned Oct. 1 by a detective-sergeant in the information security service of a branch of the SQ called the Direction de la protection de l'état for an immediate meeting. An SQ officer named François Panneton produced a list of names, Spears said. "He asked me, 'Would you consider them a threat to society?' " Spears recounted. He added the question is "ludicrous," because the individuals are fine people. Spears said the detective phoned him back this week to meet another officer Thursday. The meeting was then rescheduled for next Tuesday, he added. Spears said he figures he was contacted by the SQ because he is a former police officer. The director of the information security service is Guy Côté, Lachaîne said. But he said it isn't clear whether Côté authorized investigators to visit friends and foes of demergers. "It was the initiative of investigators," Lachaîne said. The SQ refused to comment. Charest and Longueuil Mayor Jacques Olivier said they knew nothing of the SQ visits to Longueuil demerger activists and to Olivier's chief of staff until a La Presse story yesterday. "I can't see any reason where there would be any security check," Charest said. "It was absolutely not initiated by us." Indeed, Chagnon, in a forceful statement, called the police action "completely ridiculous." Olivier said whoever ordered the investigations "is a dangerous man or woman" because "they don't know what the term 'democracy' means." Christiane Miville-Deschênes, an aide to Montreal Mayor Gérald Tremblay, said he knew nothing of the SQ actions. La Presse identified Daniel Ferland as the SQ officer who visited such demerger activists as Boucherville borough chairperson Francine Gadbois. "I said (to the investigator) we're not terrorists. You can't stop people from speaking their minds," Gadbois said yesterday. The officer, she said, told her he was doing "preventive analysis." Though the SQ investigations were not of a criminal nature, Chagnon said they could have the effect of making people afraid to speak their minds. "Every person who wants to be involved in their community can do so in all confidence without fearing the intervention of the state," Chagnon said. ALLISON HANES of The Gazette contributed to this report © Copyright 2003 Montreal Gazette ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:04:01 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Louisville Sluggers, burly friends are effective deterrents, affirmative action? *** http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id=5B13E90D-4962-4A 35-A5D0-29950A070BB6 NEWS STORY Louisville Sluggers, burly friends are effective deterrents, resident says SIDHARTHA BANERJEE The Gazette Saturday, October 11, 2003 CREDIT: PHIL CARPENTER, THE GAZETTE Fed up: Greg Parent, a long-time Tupper St. resident, is tired of having to clean up drug paraphernalia around his home. Fourteen years ago, he rounded up a group of burly friends in a bid to deal with a similar problem, but police moved in on the dealers before the residents could swing into action. Resident Greg Parent has seen it all before. Fourteen years ago, dealers had overrun a section of Ste. Catherine St. between St. Marc and St. Mathieu Sts. - an obnoxious bunch who yelled at each other, harassed pedestrians and sprinted back and forth across the street to make deals. So Parent put the word out through a local weekly newspaper on Nov. 1, 1989, giving the dealers an ultimatum: Scram by Nov. 15, 1989, or be scrambled. To help, he enlisted the aid of a few burly friends who worked as movers and bouncers. He rounded up a few baseball bats, too. Simply put, a little vigilante justice would be the answer. But before he and his group could swing into action, the Montreal police did their dirty work. Ten arrests and $100,000 worth of crack cocaine later, Parent finally had a little peace of mind. Parent, a soft-spoken Tupper St. resident for 18 years, doesn't look like a vigilante. He's actually a McGill University law professor. But everyone has a boiling point. For Parent in 1989, it was when dealers tried to hawk cocaine to his elderly mother and sister. With a new group of dealers back in his neighbourhood now, he hints it won't be long before the old Louisville Slugger is brought out of retirement. And he's not the only one on the street seriously considering vigilantism as a way of cleaning up the problem on Tupper. "I realize that resources are limited these days, but there are ways of discouraging (dealers) from being in the same place all the time," Parent says. "But the police don't do it. So (the dealers) have become more brazen, and now there are more and more of them." Parent shows little patience for the dealers. He's not looking for trouble, he says, but he is not willing to back down either. He openly photographs deals being made in the middle of the day. In turn, the dealers simply wave back at him and continue with the transaction. "If we wanted to, we could be calling the police every three hours because there's always something going on around here," Parent says. He understands that living downtown means having to put up with the odd vagrant, addict or drunk, but in recent months the situation has gotten out of control. "If you've lived in an area for a long time and you like the area and it wasn't that way when you first moved there, it's a little disillusioning. You expect the neighbourhood to get better and you figure the quality of life will improve. That has not necessarily been the case here." Even police officers are frustrated, but they know they can't go banging down people's doors for no reason. "When the police don't do anything to stop it, the addicts become like gangs, and they start hunting desperately for dealers," Parent says. "And when the dealers aren't there at 4, 5, 6 a.m., they get frantic and go bananas." © Copyright 2003 Montreal Gazette ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:22:19 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: ID Cards hey remember the first firearm registration cards? they also came with a magnetic strip __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract : All Rights Reserved : Without Prejudice __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:22:58 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: BC Firearms License Oh brother, you ain't just whistling Dixie there. Back in 76, my first trip to BC, a clerk in a mountaineering store refused to sell to me because he detected a slight French accent. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract : All Rights Reserved : Without Prejudice __________________________________________________ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JP Poulin" To: Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 9:57 AM Subject: Re: BC Firearms License > > On 10/11/2003 02:36 -0500, paul chicoine wrote: > > > "And then along comes Paul Chicoine, again with the idea that RFOCBC owes > > something to whoever shows up. I'm sorry to disappoint you all but I don't > > think I was put on the planet to inform every Tom, Dick and Paul about > > things they haven't heard about." > > Must be a Western - Quebec/Ontario thing Paul. You know how the West hates > us damn Easteners for allowing the Liberals to reign supreme, so they must > take jabs at us to feel superior in some way. > > Whenever I see this type of resentment, I'm reminded again about why we have > C-68. > > JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:23:55 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Montreal Gazette Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Hunt one another, leave animals alone Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:24:50 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Montreal Gazette If you replace the word "hunter" with the word "gay" or "Jew", you might begin to appreciate the hatred that David Bertrand is really spewing. His tirade betrays his agenda - the elimination of all hunting, and if he had his way, hunters, too. Perhaps he'd like to round them up in cattle cars, and put them into camps for "re-education". If Mr. Bertrand feels that hunting is "barbaric and morally unacceptable", he is entitled to that opinion. However, he can not be allowed to force his narrow and hate filled point of view on others. Advocating that hunters shoot each other is reprehensible behaviour from someone who professes to detest the violence that he believes hunting entails. That is hypocrisy of the highest order. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:42:37 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Edmonton Sun Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: GUN CASE FIRES BLANKS Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:43:02 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Edmonton Sun Let's get one thing straight: defence of self, others or property is not "vigilantism" - it is the sovereign right of the individual, and furthermore, it is their duty and obligation. The Shand King case is a shameful indictment of our Criminal Justice Industry which sees a law abiding citizen, defending his property from the depredations of real criminals, coerced into pleading guilty or face the full wrath of the State. And now it seems that these charges had no substantiation, as Crown prosecutor Bonnie Parker says "there was no reasonable likelihood of getting convictions." No doubt they were laid simply to obtain King's "co-operation". It is a sad day indeed when the victims of real crimes, committed by real criminals, are re-victimized by the very system that is supposed to protect them, for exercising their sovereign rights. Shame! Shame on them all! Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:46:19 -0600 (CST) From: Jaded Junker Subject: RE:BC hunter charged with unauthorized possesion ofa firearm and father "At that point the officer siezed the gun and charged him with unauthorized possesion of a firearm. The officer then met with the father and asked him if he had given his son permissin to use the gun and he told him that his had an under standing with him for years about the gun's use. At that point he charged me with CC 99/1 weapons trafficking. The father told him he thought that was rather extreme and the officer asked why he should give him a break, and that if he did he would have to give every Hell's Angel a break." Well Now! ...maybe our dear justice system should start explaining just who these Hell's Angels really are and exactly what "breaks" are being withheld from this group and the "gangs" (mostly ethenicly oreinted). Why is it the "police" are so willing to intrude on OUR Canadian ways of life & heritage and yet TOTALLY ignore the ongoings of these "new" ethinic societal practices, supposedly based on rights of heritage? This is an outrage and needs direct attention by all those concerned. Should wonder why, PLEASE READ the following: (I apolagize for the length, but what must be said, MUST BE SAID) The West Was Not Won with A Registered Gun By Ron Marr CNSNews.com Commentary October 31, 2002 [Article snipped due to length. It can be found at this link: http://www.sierratimes.com/02/11/01/edrm110102.htm] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:01:46 -0600 (CST) From: rae baker Subject: Insane Quebecers Is it any wonder that the people of Quebec are not people of Canada. They are cruel and Had I been there I might have take that gun and used it on the Jerk farmer. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:01:30 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Gem thief shoots jeweller "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" wrote: > Police describe the robbery as well planned, but the thieves are not the > first to use bogus uniforms. Around the world, UPS uniforms have been > used by robbers. > > For example, a truck with L 250,000 worth of golf clubs was robbed by a > man in a UPS uniform in England this past summer. Last January, the > theft of a UPS uniform was linked to a suspect in the kidnapping of a > Greenwich, Conn., multimillionaire. > > In the past, Toronto bandits have also used bogus uniforms to aid them > in the robberies. > > "We've had people doing all sorts of things," Det. Townley said. "A bank > robber once did a robbery in police uniform." I guess you know what that means - time for a uniform registry! Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:01:55 -0600 (CST) From: JP Poulin Subject: Re: Insane Quebecers On 10/11/2003 13:01 -0500, rae baker wrote: > Is it any wonder that the people of Quebec are not people of Canada. > They are cruel and Had I been there I might have take that gun and used > it on the Jerk farmer. Here we go again. Paint 'em all with a big brush. Tell us what you really mean. Don't hold back. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:02:45 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Letters to Canoe.ca "Your View" http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/yourview.html Letters to Canoe.ca Your View yourview@canoe.ca So murder rates are up and it has little to do with guns. In my opinion, if we spent 2 billion on growing prisons and their staff then we could hand out a 40 year sentence if one is convicted of murder. Prison is meant to punish people, not re-habilitate. I've worked with ex-cons and none of them say they were re-habilitated. They made their choice; murder, not manslaughter, is a crime that should be punishable by sitting in prison for 40 years, not 15, for "good behaviour". Jeff Wright Edmonton, AB You know, I may be not the most '"well read" individual on how the government does things,( I am a blue collar worker and small business owner).... Yet..why do I have all these "red flags" pop up in my head when I see a Statistics Canada report saying something like.."more deaths involved with Knives than Guns"??.. This has to be a push by the liberal government to try to smooth the overspending of our tax dollars on gun control... Statistics can be made out to what ever one wants to decipher. When they first introduced gun registration they gave these "statistics" of people that were killed with Guns....they included accidents, suicides,.... Lord knows what else.....they dug real deep to find absolutely anything that had to do with firearm deaths...even went as far as firearm related crimes that did not include death and added them with there "STATISTICS". (Gave them a fancy word called INCIDENTS) Yet was all thrown into the pot to convince the public that gun control is what we needed..we, the canadian public bought it. ..Now they are simply comparing knives to guns....sounds like a cheap beer parlor trick. ...Why compare knives to guns?...why not compare knives to drunk drivers?......why just guns? They are giving us garbage to try to justify there overspending of the tax dollar on gun control....our prime minister is trying to save his tail and setting up canadian citizens for more tax spending on this dead horse.... I expect a follow up statement by the Senior citizen leader we have to speak out the side of his face and say the gun control is working based on these findings. ( by God knows whose tallying .............and under lord knows what circumstances.) I only hope Canadian citizens can see through this garbage!....knives indeed! I am Done with spending MY money in this bottomless pit the Government calls gun control...ENOUGH!!! Jim Morris Emerald Park Saskatchewan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:03:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to Canoe.ca Your View Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Charest denounces cow killings Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:05:22 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: yourview@canoe.ca How typical of the police state that Canada has become that the jackbooted thugs of the Surete de Quebec are investigating laying firearms charges against a hard-pressed farmer for shooting his own cow! Nothing like kicking someone while they are down - that must be the new Canadian way. It's much easier to pick on destitute farmers than it is to take on real criminals, like the Hells Angels. Score another "victory" for the Criminal Justice Industry! Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:04:23 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: CF ID Cards "Tom Falls" wrote: > Subject: ID Cards > > A few years back, there was a rumour that military I - Cards would have > info put on them on a magnetic strip. "Well " we said, " so much for name, > rank, service number, and date of birth if we get captured" Much hilarity Didn't you get one of those all white plastic jobs with the fancy CF logo across the top, your serial number across the face of it, and a magnetic strip on the back? I think I got mine about... I dunno... 1990 or so. I think the theory was it was supposed to have all our medical info and stuff on it. Can't remember, because once we got them, nobody ever asked to see them after that - or even confirm that we received them in the first place. Or was I part of some short lived and ill conceived pilot project? If so, it would beat being one of the poor bastards they did NBCW tests on out at CFB Suffield a few years back with mustard gas and what. There's still areas out there that the DRES boys still say it is verboten to go into. Canada's very own Area 51! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:05:45 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Ruined Duck Hunt near Davidson, SK To: Premier Calvert Cc: "Garry Breitkreuz, MP" , Firearms Digest Ruined Duck Hunt near Davidson The RCMP ruin another pleasant fall morning duck hunt. Yesterday morning RCMP Corporal John Warren intruded upon the duck hunt of Saskatoon residents Jack Wilson and Ed Hudson as they were hunting on Saskatchewan Wildlife Habitat land just northwest of Davidson, Saskatchewan. Cpl Warren politely asked to see their hunting license, firearms license, and firearms registration certificate. When Dr Hudson only produced his Saskatchewan hunting license and migratory bird permit, Cpl Warren confiscated Dr Hudson’s 16 gauge Stevens pump shotgun. The seizure of the firearm took less than 10 minutes. Cpl Warren asked no questions about their hunting activity, and only obtained the bare minimum of information about Mr Wilson and Dr Hudson. Although Cpl Warren stated that “charges may be laid up to six months after an incidence”, it does not appear that further investigation or charges are likely. When Dr Hudson asked what would happen to his shotgun, Cpl Warren replied that he “would like to get this shotgun out of my evidence room as soon as possible, so I will be asking for a destruction order, probably within the next month.” Dr Hudson would then have to appear before a judge to show cause why the firearm should not be destroyed. “To say I feel raped would probably be an inappropriate use of the term, but I certainly do feel violated,” Dr Hudson replied when asked how he felt. “Perhaps the more appropriate term would be that I feel ‘impotent’. This unconstitutional, unjust law gives these police offices the power just to drive up, interrupt the peaceful practice of our heritage and culture, and steal our firearms. All I have to show for my shotgun is an RCMP calling card and a green and white RCMP paper receipt. I have been stripped of my legally obtained property and left defenseless.” Canadian Unregistered Firearms Owners Association 402 Skeena Crt Saskatoon Saskatchewan S7K 4H2 1-306-242-2379 1-306-249-2359 fax edwardhudson@shaw.ca www.cufoa.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:03:31 -0400 From: Bruce Mills Subject: (no subject) From: Mark L Horstead Subject: Re: ID Cards > From: "Tom Falls" > Date: 2003/10/10 Fri PM 11:35:03 EST > To: undisclosed-recipients: ; > Subject: ID Cards > > > A few years back, there was a rumour that military I - Cards would have > info put on them on a magnetic strip. Actually, most of those strips are blank. Only the ones held by NDHQ have any info on them, as they double as a building pass. Once separate passes are issued to those pers, supposedly happening soon, new I cards will no longer have the strip. Mark ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #566 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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