From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #572 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, October 13 2003 Volume 06 : Number 572 In this issue: Law snafu needs solving RE: Cheekpiece option Re: Musketry as a Pillar of Good Citizenship - The Saga Continues Ottawa man surrenders to police after standoff Hostage-taker tackled LETTER: (... a billion and counting) Mock vote reveals anti-Tory 'poison' Are they ours, or are they theirs and should we still be entitled to Why? 'Suicide by cop' .43 Mauser Loads Return of the Great White Hunter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:01:09 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Law snafu needs solving http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-10-13-0024.html Monday, October 13, 2003 Law snafu needs solving Legal-representation issue comes to a head By DARCY HENTON, THE CANADIAN PRESS Where do you turn when you can't afford a lawyer and don't qualify for legal aid? It's a burning issue across the country as the costs of litigation rise and increasing numbers of lawyerless litigants turn up in court. Some are turning to court agents or paralegals for help but provincial legislation governing what they can and can't do isn't clear. The issue, which has simmered in Ontario for nearly a decade, has come to a head in Medicine Hat. The Alberta Court of Appeal has reserved judgment on a case in which a truck driver, Paul Cummins, 42, hired a paralegal to help fight a $10,500 debt recovery action. There would be an uneven playing field if Cummins, who has limited income and education, was forced to defend himself, ruled a lower court in June 2001. After hearing that Cummins didn't qualify for legal aid and couldn't afford a lawyer, Justice Robert Cairns allowed Ken Montgomery, a retired Edmonton police officer, to act as Cummins' agent at that hearing. "To stack an experienced lawyer against an uneducated man with a Grade 3 education seems unfair," Cairns said in his decision. The Alberta Law Society intervened in the Sept. 8 appeal of that decision, arguing the decision contravenes a section of the Legal Profession Act prohibiting those who aren't active members from practising as a barrister or as a solicitor. Montgomery, who has worked as a self-employed paralegal in Medicine Hat since January 2000, said the justice system can't be only for those who can afford it. "Access to the justice system has got to be cost-effective and fair," he said. "While they say you are covered by legal aid, the reality is most people don't qualify and still can't afford a lawyer. "So what do we do?" Montgomery, who usually appears in provincial, small-claims and family courts, has pursued the case on Cummins' behalf because he believes there's a need to clarify the law. "It's a grey area. We need to know what we can do and what we can't do. My client basically can't afford it, but it's an important issue," said Montgomery. People can hire a lawyer or represent themselves in higher courts but can only have an agent represent them if the court approves. Montgomery had to make that case before Cairns. "I'm the first person to say you should have a lawyer, but what happens if you can't afford a lawyer and you don't qualify for legal aid?" Currently, federal law bars court agents or paralegals from representing clients facing sentences of more than six months. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:01:48 -0600 (CST) From: Rod Regier Subject: RE: Cheekpiece option Beartooth - Comb Raising Kit neoprene sleeve with graduated increment foam inserts. Mix and match to get the right height. Nice system if you decide you need a simple stock-revision solution. Non-permanent so you can change your mind later. Available from Cabela's among others $US19 Various sleeve colors. http://www.cabelas.com search string "Beartooth Comb Raising Kit" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:03:05 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Re: Musketry as a Pillar of Good Citizenship - The Saga Continues "Tom Falls" > Honestly Rick, I just couldn't help myself :-) I know... you guys with black grease stained berets and humungous watches on your hairy arms just can't help yourselves... ... that's why the infantry is there. > On an SSEP course in 1972, we watched a 17 year old female recruit put five > shots from a Rifle, 7.62mm, FN C1A1 into a two inch group at 100 yards. > "How did you do that?" someone asked, "I just did what the Corporals told > me to do." she said. Those who thought it was a fluke thought again when > she grouped another five shots into a THREE inch circle at TWO hundred > yards. I don't think it was an 8L serialed rifle, either. Figure, at the > time, the 11 pound FN was about 12% of her body weight, maybe. That is absolutely phenomenal shooting with Ron Surette or anyone else behind the trigger of a C1 - a standard issue one at that. Three inches at two hundred? The woman was obviously on the right track, but she should have been buying lottery tickets as well. > The tank thing: Golly Rick, haven't you ever driven a tank? Heck, even > my wife has driven a tank. My son rode in a tank when he was about 3 months > old. The car seat fits in the gun basket of the 105. I passed him out to > his mother through the pistol port. No, I haven't driven a tank; given that your wife can drive your tank it can't be that complicated - the question is, has she ever jumped out of a Herky Bird at 0300 in the morning? I have driven M113's and that was degrading enough. God did not invent parachutes so we could crawl about the face of the earth in some noisy, stinking, oily, dusty piece of machinery, attracting the attention of every lethal piece of expensive ordinance on land, air, and sea within range. Just getting close enough to one to use the coinless telephone booth is bad enough... > The Lee Enfield thing. Thanks for all the ideas so far. Keep those cards > and letters coming, folks! I already told you; what you really need is a 40-60 Maynard... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:03:28 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Ottawa man surrenders to police after standoff http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2003/10/13/224640.html Mon, October 13, 2003 Ottawa man surrenders to police after standoff By Sun Staff A standoff with a man in Ottawa's west end ended safely after the man turned himself in early yesterday morning. Ottawa police and the SWAT team responded to a scene at 54C Chesterton Dr. in Nepean and blocked off traffic after receiving reports of a man carrying a rifle. When police arrived at the residence at about 8:30 p.m. on Saturday, the man, who was in his backyard, picked up a rifle and pointed it in the direction of an officer. The officer took cover and the man retreated into the residence and barricaded himself in. Police attempted to make contact with the resident, and the tactical team was called to the scene. "We evacuated residents for safety precautions in an attempt to negotiate with the male," said Staff Sgt. Phil Tennant. The owner of the home is believed to be a man in his 50s who lives alone. Through negotiations, the man turned himself in and was taken into custody by police around 4 a.m. yesterday. The man fired two shots. One was accidental and the other was intentional, police said. Both were fired into the ceiling of the home. No shots were fired by police and no one was hurt in the standoff. "It all ended peacefully," Staff Sgt. Rick Webber said. The man was still in custody last night and will be charged with a number of firearms-related offences. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:03:54 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Hostage-taker tackled http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2003/10/13/224652.html Mon, October 13, 2003 Hostage-taker tackled Police nab suspect, 24 By CP QUEBEC -- A hostage-taking in Quebec City ended in dramatic fashion yesterday as tactical officers subdued a 24-year-old suspect who held a man at gunpoint for 12 hours. TV footage showed six or seven officers dragging a suspect to the ground after he attempted to flee an apartment building during the standoff. The disturbance began early yesterday, when a man wanted by police barricaded himself inside the basement of the building with the hostage. A shot was fired in the direction of officers, prompting police to shut down the street. Fifty officers participated in the operation at the height of the standoff. The suspect attempted to flee the scene after hours of negotiations, but was tackled by officers and led away in handcuffs. "It's possible he may have consumed drugs during the day, but that has yet to be confirmed by the investigation," said provincial police spokesman Richard Gagne. The hostage-taking triggered a case of road rage earlier in the day when a motorist was turned away at a cordoned-off street and proceeded to run down and seriously injure a delivery man. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:04:25 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: LETTER: (... a billion and counting) http://www.canoe.ca/OttawaSun/editorial.html Ottawa Sun LETTER OF THE DAY OCtober 13, 2003 Denis Coderre, in true Liberal fashion, is pressing ahead with his national ID card scheme. The last boondoggle by the Liberals was their $2-million gun registry, which has ballooned to over a billion dollars. The true costs of this have been hidden from the public and it took an investigation by Sheila Fraser, the auditor general, to put together the billion dollar estimate. Even she gave up, stating they had costs hidden in too many departments for her to make the true costs known. Bear this in mind when you consider the ID card, which is estimated to cost $7-billion. We know the Liberals cannot add nor are they competent to give honest estimates on their program costs. They took the registry costs from front-line policing, health care and our military. Where do you think the ID card costs are going to come from? Just think that for multi billions of dollars you can have a card that will enable the government to track your every movement. How long do you think it will be before businesses demand the card as ID for transactions? This entire expense and privacy invasion to have an ID card and for what? So the police can stop you and say, papers please? The firearms licence contains a photo and information of the owner. There is even a magnetic strip on the back and a bar code and we have no idea what information they contain. The laughable part is after all the intrusive questions on the application and the subsequent approval and issuance of the card, it is unacceptable as a form of ID in Canada. Great system for a billion-plus dollars. Jim Hill (... a billion and counting) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:26:52 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Mock vote reveals anti-Tory 'poison' http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2003/10/13/224693.html Mon, October 13, 2003 Mock vote reveals anti-Tory 'poison' Skewed results show teachers pushing agenda on students By MARK BONOKOSKI Judging by the results of a mock provincial election run simultaneously with the one that counted, it would appear Ontario secondary school teachers have tilted our children's heads on their ears and have successfully poured an anti-Tory poison into their collective brains. It is not totally unexpected, of course. Teachers in this province have rarely loved the government of the day. They marginally tolerated Liberal Premier David Peterson until he became too cocky. They got hot under their white collars at NDP Premier Bob Rae for turning his back on trade unionism, and they loathed Tory Premier Mike Harris with a passion that was truly vitriolic. Ditto with Harris successor Ernie Eves who, damn him to hell, was prepared to put students' interests ahead of the interests of their teachers by banning teacher strikes. What was this fascist thinking? We await now to see how the province's teachers will turn on Liberal premier-elect Dalton McGuinty who, once upon a time, also considered the banning of teacher strikes. And this comes from a man who is married to one. The mock election referred to here -- sponsored by the Kids Voting Canada program -- was held for the first time this year at 810 high schools across the province, with more than 300,000 students casting their ballot on Oct. 2 at the same time their parents were trudging to the polls to register their votes for real. What happened -- for real -- saw the Tories bounced from power, of course, with the Liberals given a 72-seat majority and the NDP falling one seat shy of official party status, this coming one day after NDP Leader Howard Hampton was boasting that this party would come a strong second. Second place, however, went to the woebegone Tories, who, much to the chagrin of a liberal-leaning media, managed to somehow hold on to 24 seats. TOTAL REJECTION But this would not have been the case if the vote held at our high schools had been the election that counted. While it is impossible to put an older head on young shoulders, even the most cautious bookie would concede that it would be nigh impossible to believe that not a single Tory would be elected in the province if it were left up to the high school students of Ontario. But this is exactly what happened. Not a single Tory was elected. The students' rejection of the right wing was absolute. In fact, if the students had had their way, Ontario's 103-seat legislature would today be comprised of 93 Liberals, nine NDPers, and one member of the Green Party -- elected in the riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka where the older heads voting for real went with Tory incumbent Norm Miller. Where the kids in the hall would have elected Green Party candidate Glen Hodgson to his party's first-ever seat in Queen's Park, the folks whose ballot counted gave him only 5.9% of the popular vote. It's a generation gap of epic proportions. In Beaches-East York, where NDP incumbent Michael Prue waltzed to another victory with 51% of the popular vote, the students would have turned the riding over to Liberal candidate, Monica Purdy, who managed to garner only 24% of the vote when all was said and done. Trying to figure out Ontario's voting system is a mug's game, of course. The Liberals got 47% of the votes but 70% of the seats. The NDP got 15% of the votes, with more votes in 2003 meaning less seats than in 1999. And then there are the Tories, with 35% of the votes but only 23% of the seats, for an overall situation that left Wayne Smith, director of the Fair Vote Ontario Campaign, figuratively shaking his head in frustration as he whipped off his letter to The Toronto Sun's editor. What makes the Liberal majority even more bogus, of course, is the fact that only 57% of the eligible voters in Ontario turned up to cast a ballot -- meaning the Liberals got their big victory with 47% of the 57% who showed up, and obviously zero from the 43% who stayed home in front of their TV to fret over who would be bounced from Survivor. In the case of the mock elections at high schools throughout Ontario, Taylor Gunn, the 25-year-old founder of the Kids Voting Canada program, indicated he originally had hopes of getting 700,000 to vote from the 1,100 schools who initially expressed interest in participating. Those 700,000, however, turned out to be 300,000, a worse voter turnout than in the adult population. So they're learning early. Considering how the students voted first time out of the box, a low turnout might be a good thing. With not a Tory elected, it is obvious that their teachers got to them -- turned their heads on the ear and poured some poisonous brainwash into their brains. It would be difficult to argue otherwise. DEVIL'S PLAY While the devil may very well be in the details, there was obviously some devil's play in the classroom, considering not a single Tory was elected by the students. Now what would make Ontario's teachers so angry with Ernie Eves that they would brainwash their students with anti-Tory propaganda in advance of their mock election? The banning of teacher strikes? Perhaps the double cohort? Or was it just for being the government of the day? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:28:14 -0600 (CST) From: Ed Tait Subject: Are they ours, or are they theirs and should we still be entitled to Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? ... If our defence be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - -- Patrick Henry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:39:06 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Why? After the thread on the .43 Mauser, safe loads, converted Lee Enfields, etc I got a few private emails asking me "Why" somebody would do such a thing as build a 40-60 Maynard black powder cartridge on a Lee Enfield in these modern times of hyper magnums. The answers are probably worth writing about for anyone with the curiosity bug about rifles. Why? First of all, because it is there, for rifle cranks. Second, for a very small amount of money, one can have a very inexpensive "truck rifle" that will do all kinds of interesting things. And it will do them with black or smokeless powder and with plain cast bullets, even if the supplies of smokeless and jacketed bullets were to get scarce at some time in the future. The .303 British and the 40-60 Maynard share the happy coincidence of having practically the same rim diameter, base diameter, and case length. In essence, when you blow a .303 British (or 30-40 Krag for that matter) case out and remove the shoulder and neck, you now have a 40-60 Maynard. And because of the similarities, the Maynard case will load and feed through Lee Enfield actions (or Model 95 Winchester actions) as though the receiver was designed for it. No modifications to the bolt face, magazine, or receiver necessary. So why would you do that in the first place; what will the Maynard do that the .303 won't? Well, it will shoot 415 grain cast bullets at just under 1800 fps out of a barrel the same length as the original Lee Enfield barrel. What that means, in essence, is you have just turned your Lee Enfield into the equivilent of a ten shot 12 gauge slug gun. Winchester's Platinum Tip 12 gauge slug load, for comparison's sake, is advertised as a 415 grain slug at 1700 fps. And the Maynard bullets will have considerably better sectional density and ballistic coefficient; unlike a shotgun it is quite useable out to 200 yards and still has nearly as much energy remaining at 200 yards as a 30/06 with 180 grain bullets at that distance. Except the Maynard bullets are "pre-expanded"... If you're a modern shooter and the idea of cast bullets makes you nervous, Quickload says you can drive the 300 grain Barnes X bullet at 2125 fps out of your newly converted Lee Enfield. That makes it a 250 yard hunting rifle, with more energy out to 250 yards than a 30/06 with 180 grain bullets. And over 3000 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, compared to 2300 ft/lbs at the muzzle for the Lee Enfield in its' original configuration in .303 British. So for the price of a barrel and a trip to your favorite gunsmith, you can convert an old "junkerized" Lee Enfield into a very handy and effective "big bore" truck gun. No complex gunsmithing is necessary, and these loads are well within the pressure limitations of the Lee Enfield action - over 30% below maximum, most of them. Game uses aside, although the 40-60 Maynard in a Lee Enfield is not an authentic "buffalo gun", it is an original black powder cartridge from that era and one can have more fun than should be legal without a permit shooting those cast bullets at long range, using recycled lead scrap and smokeless or black powder. The original Mk I Lee Enfield rear sight has plenty of elevation to play around with. And that is why converting a ruined Lee Enfield into a 40-60 Maynard is such a sensible thing to do for the person who wants either something different, something cheap, or something with a little more stopping power than the .303 British. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:07:59 -0600 (CST) From: Larry James Fillo Subject: 'Suicide by cop' Suicide by Cop, Digest #570 What are the implications of officer's Parent's Phd Thesis showing most people being shot to death by police are suicidal. Assisiting a person to commit suicide is still a criminal offence? Oh well, it may be difficult to prove. It does seem difficult to argue for police having guns if they are mostly using them to assist suicides. How ironic, as reducing the amount of suicides by means of firearms was a main 'justification'for C-68 authorizing the confiscation of firearms. Peace Officers, due to this study, may be obligated to confiscate their own duty weapons. The quote that 'police killings have also remained steady despite Canada's falling violent crime rate. Is this the net benefit of the ever increasing use of SWAT teams? Someone needs to do follow up on this study. Or perhaps there is something amiss about the stats showing lower rates of violent crime? Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:58:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: .43 Mauser Loads Like I said, give it up and shoot blackpowder. Make someone a present of your Varget. Shiloh (makers of modern Sharps reproduction buffler guns) advises buyers to do just that. If you wanna shoot smokeless out of one of their rifles, their advice is to buy it chambered in a smokeless round. Don't make an historic rifle into something it wasn't intended to be. By shooting paper patched blackpowder rounds in your Mauser, you will experience what it must have been like to be one of the Kaiser's truppen. That's what makes shooting era rifles fun. When I touch off my Sharps .45 2 1/10" (.45-70 to you) launching a 500 grain bullet with 68 grains of FFg, it's like nothing else. Todd Birch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:59:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Return of the Great White Hunter Good for the Brits, Germans and others who can afford to indulge in this level of sport hunting! I wish that I was among them. Granted, greed might lead unscrupulous operators to exceed acceptable levels of culling or harvest, but that is a matter of enforcement by authorities. Poaching and the infringement of humans into habitat continue to be the majors threats to wildlife. That and well heeled buyers willing to pay for rhino horn, ivory and other contraband. Park Rangers go underarmed and underfunded in their efforts to combat this illegal commerce. Lee-Enfield .303's are a poor match for gangs of poachers with AK-47's and nothing to lose. I was never a bear hunter until 'Bear Watch' went on their crusade to establish a moratorium on bear hunting in BC. When I realized what a bogus scheme that was, I became a bear hunter. Anthony Marr, the half-Chinese spokesman for Bear Watch was concerned about poaching bears for their gall bladders ( a Chinese traditional remedy) and paws, a Chinese delicacy. He was attacking the problem from the wrong end and needed to kill the demand amongst the Chinese. What the animal rightists fail to recognize and admit is that properly managed hunting has never yet depleted a species. The wholesale slaughter of the North American bison was not a regulated hunt but a deliberate attempt to wipe out a food source and thereby bring the western tribes into submission without a protracted war. It was protested at the time for the disgraceful waste and travesty that it was, and not just by non-hunters. I have to admit that if I could afford Africa, my instruction to the professional hunter would be not to put me in front of anything that didn't have teeth and claws. I can shoot critters with horns and hooves right here. This would be my perfect reason to justify a .375 H&H, a bit much for mule deer and black bear. Todd Birch ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #572 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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