From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #581 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, October 16 2003 Volume 06 : Number 581 In this issue: Re; Gun Show Re: lieberals My letter to the Ottawa Sun Re: bears Re: bears Overboard with Gear & Ladies Hunting Re-HUMANS TO BLAME for WANDERING CUB re high powered magazines Slain pair's case in court Suzuki: choke urban sprawl Editor: (Don't count on it) Editor: (See Letter of the Day) RE: Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project RFC-Ottawa Office Project Termination Re: hi powered magazines Hunting is Our Heritage Fw: Weapons cache to be returned Re: Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project RFC Termination, CFDv6n577 REVIEW - Innocents Betrayed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:55:24 -0600 (CST) From: "dmwright" Subject: Re; Gun Show GUN SHOW This Sunday Oct 19th 2003, to be held at Pickering Recreation Centre, Pickering Ont. from HWY 401 go north on Brock Road then turn left (west) on HWY 2, go to the next lights which is Valley Farm Road and make a left, you will see the Recreation Centre just a little ways down on the left hand side, watch for gun show signs. The show runs from 8 a.m. till 1 p.m.for more information please call 905-679-8812 before 9 p.m. please. You can pick up the new 2004 gun show schedule there. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:55:24 -0600 (CST) From: B Farion Subject: Re: lieberals Hi; Did you hear the latest from the BC lieberals! They want you to register to buy a light bulb or a water pump! All in the failed War on Drugs! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:55:47 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the Ottawa Sun Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: SMILE FOR THE RETINAL SCANNER Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:57:35 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - Ottawa Sun Corderre's comments do not surprise me at all - this is the same arrogant Federal Liberal government attitude which is still being evidenced in their continued support of their failed firearms fiasco. They feign an interest in "public input", when they have already made up their minds. They then try to use this "input" as justification for what they wanted to do in the first place, no matter how much dissent there is. Any day now I expect him to parrot the infamous last words of former Minister of Just Us Anne McLellan: "The Debate Is Over". Sorry, Denis, the debate isn't over until we, the people, say it is. And we say "NO"! Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:58:53 -0600 (CST) From: B Farion Subject: Re: bears >ALEXANDRA GILL talks to a young environmentalist who is working with an >ex-Disney VP and Backstreet Boy Kevin Richardson to produce a major animated >film they hope will save British Columbia's rare white bear > >By ALEXANDRA GILL >Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - Page R1 Hi; Well, how come there are white bears accross N. BC??? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:13:28 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: bears B Farion wrote: > Hi; > Well, how come there are white bears accross N. BC??? Aren't those called "polar bears"? Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:23:27 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Overboard with Gear & Ladies Hunting Holy Crap, Batman! If I carried all that stuff with me, I wouldn't be able to move! I admit to being a 'bare-assed' hunter. I prefer the term minimalist. I can carry everything I need to survive a night out in the side pockets of my hunting pants and pockets of my insulated camo vest. This varies with the terrain and the conditions. How do I know? I'm also a member of the local Search & Rescue group and I've spent the night out on exercises a couple of times with this minimal gear and it wasn't mid-July either. I know my area, carry a compass (I've yet to find a GPS 'user-friendly' enough for me), always read the country as I move along and have the uncanny ability to walk out where I need to. The sun is my best guide and intuitively, I know where I am in relation to the terrain as it moves in it's arc across the southern sky. When it's not there, I rely on the compass and leave tape markers as necessary. My knife is Kershaw folder with a 3" blade. I also carry a pet custom drop-point knife with a 4" blade (just because I like it) and a Stanley folding saw, again with a 3" blade. A spare magazine for my Remington 788, paper towel, fire starter kit and a nylon drag sling round it out. I'm beginning to carry some 'wet ones' in a ziplock bag as well. I want someone to demonstrate being able to catch a fish with a tangle of monofilament line and the lures packed into a 'survival kit'. Same for feeding yourself with snare wire. I say this having grown up in the bush of northwestern Ontario and spending most of my adult life in rural BC. At best this will give you something to do while SAR people are looking for you. New topic..... Yesterday a lady guest wanted to go for a hike. I agreed but since I know there is game in the area, went in my hunting clothes carrying my 4x-scoped .308. Not 15 minutes into our hike, I spotted a deer at about 75 yards. With hand signals I motioned her to ground and communicated that while it was a deer, I was as yet uncertain as to it's legality. When it became apparent that it was a legal four point mule deer, I fired. Heart shot, he dropped almost in his tracks. Another victory for Winchester run-of-the-mill 150 grain PSP ammo. She was shedding a few tears after I went through my ritual of placing a sprig in the mouth of the deer and praying over it, a custom adopted from a friend. He also burns sweetgrass as part of his ceremony. Neither of us claims native heritage. She asked me if all hunters did this and I said that the men I hunted with had this attitude or I didn't hunt with them. She watched, fascinated as I went about the business of gutting it out, even tying the knots around the anus and urethra so that they would come out with the gut bag and not contaminate the meat. We had a drag of several hundred yards and she assisted, wearing my vest and packing my .308 across her back(!) as I was doing the bulk of the dragging. Game girl.....all of 5'2", eyes of blue, but I digress..... Then we lifted the carcass into the back of my truck after I backed it up to a bank. We discussed the ethics of hunting on the way out. She was impressed with mine and the care put into skinning and trimming it after it was hung at home. This city gal now has an appreciation for hunting she never had before and fully understands that meat on her plate means an animal died. She also commented that when I offer her or anyone game meat, it is a meaningful gift representing time, work and effort, not to mention money. When anyone balks, I offer to replace it with meat laced with steroids, red dye and antibiotics; good old beef on a Styrofoam tray covered with plastic wrap. They get the point. Take a woman hunting. Todd Birch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:37:56 -0600 (CST) From: DAVEa1a80807 Subject: Re-HUMANS TO BLAME for WANDERING CUB Police detachments do not have any funds for tranquilizer guns and darts, and as for introducing a bear into any container that is DESIGNED FOR DOMESTIC animals, you would never get a domestic animal in again until it was cleaned and disenfected; and then it still might not be useable, and if the BEAR WOKE UP! then no telling what the condition the movable container would be in. Dave L. Worfolk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:38:50 -0600 (CST) From: "TONY KATZ" Subject: re high powered magazines If we are to assume that these high powered magazines are of a salacious nature and have explicit pornographic content then we have another more serious charge to consider. possession of weapons of mass-turbation. with tounge in cheek, tony ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:01:03 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Slain pair's case in court http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2003/10/15/226225.html Wed, October 15, 2003 Slain pair's case in court 18 witnesses to testify on teachers' deaths By TOBI COHEN, Ottawa Sun LESS than a year since Bob and Bonnie Dagenais were gunned down in their Val-des-Monts cottage, one of the two accused of murdering them is set to stand trial. After a lengthy selection process that saw some 64 potential jurors interviewed, yesterday a panel of five men and seven women were finally assigned the task of deciding the fate of 27-year-old Rene Michaud, charged with first- and second-degree murder. The trial starts today and is expected to last about three weeks. Crown and defence lawyers intend to call about 18 witnesses, including police and crime scene investigators as well as the 16-year-old co-accused who cannot be named under the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Defence lawyer Marino Mendo would not discuss his strategy but noted his client would be the only witness to testify for the defence. The young co-accused will also be called to testify against Michaud for the Crown despite an attempt by his lawyer to have him removed from the witness list. A hearing to have the youth transferred to adult court also wrapped up yesterday. Justice Pierre Seguin is expected to make a decision on his transfer on Tuesday. The Crown prosecutor in the youth's case, Nadine Piche, wouldn't comment on the expected outcome but noted transferring a youth to adult court in Quebec is rare. 'PRETTY HORRIBLE' "It's certain the expertise was not in favour of a transfer," she said, noting she couldn't elaborate as the proceedings are under a publication ban. "It's a crime that's severe enough; the circumstances are pretty horrible. Just based on those factors alone for the Crown it was important to ask for the transfer." Defence lawyer Ginette Ross maintained justice would not be compromised by proceeding with the case in youth court. "I'm convinced the juvenile system would serve justice very well and protect society very well," she said. While family of the slain couple were present for the youth's hearing, they did not wish to comment on either case until after the trial. The bodies of the recently retired school teachers, Bob, 51, and Bonnie, 52, were found in their cottage Nov. 23, 2002 following what's believed to have been a botched burglary. Michaud and the youth were arrested shortly after while asleep in a pickup truck. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:01:56 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Suzuki: choke urban sprawl As I have been saying for years, the doctrine of "need", as well as using "public health" and "the environment" as a distraction, will be the excuses used by the hand-wringing, do-gooder, statists to round us all up and force us into inner city tenements - for our own good, of course. http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2003/10/15/226163.html Wed, October 15, 2003 Suzuki: choke urban sprawl Suburban lifestyle unhealthy: Report By ANTONELLA ARTUSO, QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU CHIEF Highrises located at Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401 are obscured by morning fog yesterday as commuters pack the thoroughfare. A report from the David Suzuki Foundation calls for higher-density communities that encourage walking and transit use. -- Zoran Bozicevic, SUN People need to understand the unhealthy connection between their car-dependent, suburban lifestyles and emergency rooms full of children and seniors suffering from asthma, environmentalist David Suzuki says. The David Suzuki Foundation has released a report on urban sprawl that calls on the new Dalton McGuinty government to take steps to build higher-density communities that encourage walking and public transit use. The report includes a "citizen's tool kit" and provides guidance to people who want to stop sprawl, including tips on how to seek political change and media attention. The rapid growth of urban sprawl around cities outpaces the population growth and is a major factor in climate change, the report says. Suzuki said people need to understand the true environmental cost of this lifestyle. "I think that we're living in a fool's paradise ... when we bitch like mad when gasoline goes up by 5 cents a litre," he said. "And, unfortunately, any politician would be crazy to advocate costing it where it should be, but that's what's needed, that people have got to start paying the real cost of their lifestyles," he added. - --- STEPS TO ERASING SPRAWL Suzuki's recommendations for checking urban sprawl in Ontario include: - - Preserving parks, ravines, natural areas and watercourses; - - Intensifying town centres and promoting mixed use development; - - Redeveloping strip malls, reinvesting along empty corridors and brownfields; - - Doing regional planning; - - Protecting downtowns; - - Establishing a legislated urban growth boundary to protect agricultural and rural areas; - - Promoting alternative transportation to cars. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:02:20 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Editor: (Don't count on it) http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html Toronto Sun Letter to the Editor October 15, 2003 RE RECENT bear shootings: I hope the urban bear-huggers who helped force the Ontario PC government to close the spring hunt are happy. It seems the bears have come home to roost - literally! These poor, innocent wild animals have now become a "public safety" issue for some of the very people who wanted to see the hunt ended. Ontario's black bear population has soared since the government decision in 1999 to cancel the spring bear hunt in an effort to protect mother bears and reduce the number of orphaned cubs. Instead of allowing hunters to keep the bear population under control in a responsible manner, the ban's supporters have opted to endanger lives in the name of emotional and political ideology. One can only hope the Liberals have the smarts the PCs lacked. Stop endangering lives! Reinstate the spring bear hunt. Bruce N. Mills Dundas (Don't count on it) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:04:32 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Editor: (See Letter of the Day) http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html Toronto Sun Letter to the Editor October 15, 2003 RE MARK Bonokoski's "Mock vote (Oct. 13):" We live near an elementary school around which we walk our dogs every day. During the "dark" days of the Mike Harris regime, a number of the school's classroom windows sported anti-Harris posters. At the time, tired of seeing teachers walk off the job every few months, I suggested to a teacher that his profession should not be allowed to strike. He suggested people like me should be shot. The students from those classes are old enough now to have taken part in the mock vote where no Tories were elected. Wow, talk about your coincidences. Wayne Hitchcock Hamilton (See Letter of the Day) WHEN I went to school, many years ago, teachers were not allowed to take political sides during history or current affairs. Political opinions were not allowed into the subject matter of any course by either student or teacher. Today it seems that brain washing of students by teachers is the norm. When did partisan politics become a part of the school curriculum? Russ Berry Niagara On The Lake (Officially, it didn't. Unofficially, however ... ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:05:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Frank Cochrane" Subject: RE: Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project I too want to thank all the people that supported the RFC Office and dedicated countless time, money, and effort to see it get off the ground, I feel that despite the best intentions of some very dedicated individuals, in the end even their efforts can not save us from the Liberals or ourselves. Hold your heads high for at least you tried. As for the rest that sat back yet again, unfortunately you deserve whatever happens to our loss of rights and priviledges. Frank Cochrane Secretary Musquodoboit Valley Rifle & Revolver Club Nova Scotia frank.cochrane@ns.sympatico.ca 902-673-2059 (home) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:12:29 -0600 (CST) From: Fred Hoenisch Subject: RFC-Ottawa Office Project Termination With this Notice of Termination, it is quite clear that Canadian firearm owners, in general, weren't ready to accept this conceptual idea as presented. Factors which probably led to its demise include: social and geographic diversity issues, lack of trust (due to unfortunate affiliations with previous groups), and lack of a detailed plan. Especially for those (like me) who didn't buy into RFC-Ottawa campaign - we must remember that Al Dorans is on our side and finding people willing to work on or volunteer for this cause is truly a daunting task. Just consider the relatively small number of posters to this digest relative to the number of those who subscribe to it. I suspect it is so, but I sincerely hope Al Dorans (and the others involved) isn't too disheartened with this outcome and haven't given up. Many opportunities continue to exist such as: building and liasing with already established firearms groups as well as political parties. Another opportunity would be to reform the RFC of Ontario, which is needed now more than ever with the provincial Liberals winning the election. Regardless of my previous commentary on the Ottawa initiative - I believe it is a sad day for firearm owners (because it confirmed my suspicions). Fred in Victoria. Director, RFOCBC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:13:13 -0600 (CST) From: wrpa Subject: Re: hi powered magazines >WOWWEE GOLLY GEE WILLICKERS..a room full of military equipment and >hi powered magazines. probably the playboy or Hustler type no doubt. You guys just are not collectors. Currently my favorite magazine is "Hi-Power Magazine". All you ever wanted to know about the Browning Hi-Power. I particularly liked last months feature "9mm or 40 S&W - is bigger better?" I also like "Nazi vs Inglis Hi-Power shoot out" from the August issue (although I think the author is biased). And don't forget the monthly centerfold "Classic Hi-Power of the Month". I'm surprised the Judge ordered them returned. I would have kept them and said they were destroyed. I guess the Judge was a Glock fan, Uhg! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:14:08 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Hunting is Our Heritage "Hunting is our heritage, it is our poetry, it is our art, it is our pleasure. It is where many of our best friendships are made. It is our community. It is our whole way of life." Baroness Anne Mallalieu http://www.wfsa.net/Image_Index.htm Liberty and Justice Week kicked off in Winchester on June 9, (2002) where a speech from pro-hunting Labour peer Baroness Anne Mallalieu drew rapturous applause, covered by local TV and other media. Other events in London, Kent and Worcestershire received similar local coverage, but the initiative clearly failed to capture the attention of the national press. http://www.chronofhorse.com/inc/02/jul12_inc.html Hunting is also a significant part of our Canadian heritage. Now might be a good time to reflect upon what is important to us. Our heritage is worth protecting. We still have a very good opportunity to prevent what happened in Great Britain from happening here in Canada. All we need is the will to resist. Sincerely, Eduardo http://www.cufoa.ca "Never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:14:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Hill" Subject: Fw: Weapons cache to be returned To the Winnipeg Sun today, Does anyone know if Lyn Cockburn is still the editor? Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hill" To: "The Editor Winnipeg Sun" Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 11:48 PM Subject: Weapons cache to be returned > To the editor, > > Perhaps you might do the public a favour and enlighten them on the > definition of a high-powered magazine. (Weapons cache to be returned, Wpg. > Sun, 15-10-2003) > > Could this mean that the round from the magazine is delivered to the chamber > with enough force to be a hazard in and of itself? > Somehow I doubt it, for if that were the case, the force of that delivery > may be enough to actually take the gun right out of a persons hands, thereby > rendering it ineffective and likely to cause injury to the holder, not to > mention the fact one would not be able to depress the spring in the magazine > in order to get one round in it much less four or five. > > I know the newspapers have different definitions for things related to > firearms, a fully automatic revolver comes to mind along with Smith and > Wesson 9mm automatic pistiols (Aug 10 2000, Gunning for Greg), but this is > the first time I have heard of the magazines as high-powered. > > Would this also mean that the cardboard box the ammunition was in when > purchased is also high-powered? After all there is little difference for > one delivers the ammunition to the magazine and the other to the firearm. > > Jim Hill > Fletchers Lake, NS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:04:43 -0600 (CST) From: Mark L Horstead Subject: Re: Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project > From: "John Perocchio" > Date: 2003/10/15 Wed AM 12:04:30 EST > To: undisclosed-recipients: ; > Subject: Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project > > > Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project > > OTTAWA, Tuesday, October 07, 2003: Trustees of the RFC-Ottawa Office Fund > held a meeting to review the RFC-Ottawa Office Project and it's progress. > Trustees received both a financial and status report at that time. Two > guests were present to act as official Observers. > > Following discussions, it was determined that seven months of fund raising > had not reached a sufficient donation level to establish a fully staffed > RFC-Ottawa Office in the Capitol Region. How much are we short and can we try a bit longer? I for one can probably kick in another couple of hundred in the next couple of weeks. If this is definitely dead then that which gets returned to me will go to support one of several firearms owners currently engaged in legal battles. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:05:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Tom Falls" Subject: RFC Termination, CFDv6n577 >"John Perocchio" paracorp@magma.ca >"Subject: Notice of Termination of RFC-Ottawa Office Project..." John, Very sad. Thanks to all concerned. Please use the funds I had sent for the RFC Office to assist in the folding - up of the project. There will no doubt be many postage costs and similar. Buy yourself and the trustees each a beer out of it, first Thanks again for your efforts. Regards, Tom Falls ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:18:45 -0600 (CST) From: unlisted@icrossroads.com Subject: REVIEW - Innocents Betrayed I've just received my DVD Innocents Betrayed from the JPFO. I was pleasantly surprised to see they included some free samples of their Gran'pa Jack series. Bonus! They're very good! and cheap enough to buy in discounted bulk to distibute to friends and other thinking people capable of having an open mind to facts. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ This documentary, Innocents Betrayed, is very disturbing to view. I don't think too many people could view it and not be moved. The underlying theme throughout: that Firearm Licenses to identify Firearms Owners are followed by Firearms Registration to make a list of guns owned, followed by Firearms Confiscation's from these lists creating a defenseless population that's easy to massacre or otherwise abuse by a Police State, if so inclined. After watching it, this fact can't be ignored. It has been repeated too many times during the last 100 years to be ignored. That those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it has NEVER been made clearer, in my opinion. I would place this documentary into a MUST VIEW category, for anyone interested in obtaining an overall view of this strategy from a Global perspective. I think it has the promise to influence voters without Firearms that this is their problem too. I would rate it a 4 out of 5. The only thing missing from this Documentary to make it a 5 out of 5, is that this exact scenario is being played out in Canada right now. The push for National ID Cards was mentioned throughout as the way to limit travel so defenseless victims couldn't run anywhere to escape. Kind of gives me a VERY uncomfortable feeling that the current Canadian LIEberal Government is pushing so hard for just such an ID card. Just what is this Liberal Government afraid of? A bankrupt Canadian Pension Plan just when the Middle Class Boomers retire and find there's no money for them, even though they've been FORCED to contribute all their working lives? A Tax Revolt? It's these Middle Class people who have the vast majority of long guns in this country. This is just my opinion, but watching this documentary has multiplied my feeling that this government is in great fear for SOME reason of otherwise law-abiding Canadians owning Firearms and they want these people DISARMED. NO other reasonable explanation makes sense. I hope this review will help others desire to watch Innocents Betrayed. Anyone in Edmonton, with the exception of government agents or other Quislings, are welcome to contact me off-line and maybe get together to view it. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #581 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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