From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #595 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, October 18 2003 Volume 06 : Number 595 In this issue: Police pistol stolen as officers celebrate bust One National gun group. Re: Sheilah Baby on the National on CBC Pam's Boobs Re: Pam's Boobs My letter to the London Free Press Re: Response to Rick Lowe - National gun group. Re: Pam's Boobs A response to Fred et. al. (yes I'm still beating that drum!) Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #591 Proposed changes to "regulations" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:30:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police pistol stolen as officers celebrate bust PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : SAT OCT.18,2003 PAGE : A1 CLASS : City EDITION : - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Police pistol stolen as officers celebrate bust Gun found at home of man tied to gang - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= Bruce Owen and Mike McIntyre A Winnipeg Police Service handgun stolen last week from a gang unit officer's vehicle was found almost four days later at the home of a man connected to a street gang. The theft of the .40-calibre Glock semi-automatic pistol and ammunition happened late last Friday as police gang unit members were in a restaurant celebrating arrests they had made the day before. Police believe those arrests foiled a street-gang murder plot. Last Tuesday, police located the gun during a raid at a Flora Avenue home during which an officer shot a dog. Three men, two with suspected gang connections, have been arrested. Police continue to investigate and say more arrests are possible this weekend. The Winnipeg Police Service said nothing to the media about the missing handgun, the raid and recovery, or the shooting of the dog. The Free Press learned of the incidents through anonymous police and street sources. Police spokesman Const. Bob Johnson said yesterday he couldn't comment on the theft and hunt for the weapon. And he said the ongoing investigation prevented him from discussing whether the officer's gun was safely secured in his vehicle. He also wouldn't say if there will be an internal investigation into the theft of the gun or the shooting of the dog. More information may be released next week, said Johnson. The dog, which is part wolf and goes by the name Shee Shee, survived the Tuesday night shooting and is under medical care at the Pembina Veterinary Hospital. The owner -- who is the mother of one of the suspects -- said yesterday police shot Shee Shee for no reason, explaining that the dog was in her backyard doghouse and posed no threat to the officers. But police say the dog bit a female officer during a search of the Flora Avenue residence, which uncovered the stolen gun hidden under a back porch. Police also found several other weapons, including a sawed-off shotgun and dozens of rounds of ammunition, according to court documents. The incident began last weekend and triggered an intense police manhunt, street sources said yesterday. Members of the city police gang unit were at Earl's restaurant on Main Street late in the evening of Oct. 10 to celebrate their recent work in foiling a suspected murder plot, according to sources. Police had arrested several members of the Indian Posse street gang the previous day. They believed those arrests prevented other gang members from being shot or killed. While police were inside the eatery, a thief broke into one of the officer's vehicles, which was in the parking lot. Sources say the thief grabbed the officer's .40-calibre Glock semi-automatic pistol, ammunition, a gun belt, handcuffs and blue gang unit jacket, which were inside the vehicle. Gang unit members discovered the break-in when they left the restaurant later that night and immediately began searching for the missing firearm. Within hours, the gun and other police items were up for sale on the city's black market, sources said yesterday. But the police service, led by the gang unit, wasn't far behind. Just hours after the theft, officers caught and arrested the alleged thief and began connecting the dots on the gun's location. Police soon identified a man who allegedly bought the gun for $500. He also was arrested and detained in custody. Street sources say the man is connected to LHS -- Loyalty, Honour and Silence, a street gang with ties to the Hells Angels. A Free Press investigation earlier this year revealed the two brothers who run the gang have registered LHS as a legitimate business with the provincial government. They claim to be in the concert promotion industry but are facing numerous criminal charges, including kidnapping and possessing proceeds of crime. With two suspects in custody, the Glock manhunt narrowed. Members of the gang unit finally learned Tuesday evening where the gun had been stashed, sources said yesterday. Police quickly arrived in force at a house on Flora Avenue near Arlington Street. Police took a third man into custody at the front of the house, which was owned by his mother, and located the gun. Witnesses said several uniformed officers were guarding the back of the house when a single shot rang out. The dog's owners said a male officer shot the female cross-breed in its snout. They said the officer's handgun was about six inches away from the dog's face when he fired at it. Dried, matted blood and bits of bone and teeth could be seen yesterday in the bottom of the dog's house at the back of the messy backyard. "The vet says she lost a third of her blood supply and that a lot of her tongue was burned away because of powder burn," said the female owner of the home. "That's how close the gun was. Her jaw is also shattered, and she has to eat her dog food through a tube." Her son was the suspect police took into custody at the front of the home. Another man at the house yesterday said Shee Shee was nursing three puppies and is expected to recover. The dog's owners, who didn't want their names published because of the ongoing investigation, said they may file a lawsuit against police. Jason Lamoureux has been charged with theft under $5,000 and was released by police last weekend on a promise to appear in court. Zyflo Abazi, 24, and Andrew Blyth, 22, are charged with more then a dozen weapons-related offences. They were released on bail Thursday despite opposition from the Crown. A member of the gang unit was called to testify, but a court-ordered ban prevents details of the hearing from being published. Provincial court Judge Murray Howell ordered both men to post $7,000 sureties. They are also restricted from having any contact with the alleged leaders of the LHS gang, the Zeneli's. bruce.owen@freepress.mb.ca mike.mcintyre@freepress.mb.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:31:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: One National gun group. Fred - > The point I tried to make is that each group offers something a little > different that appeals to me. Yes it might be *nice* if there was one group > that could do it all - but there isn't. I was trying to offer an answer to > the seemingly regularly asked question: "Why do we (in the RFC) have so many > groups?" This seems to be the *scapegoat* for why we aren't "united" - and > I disagree with that sentiment. At the risk of throwing gas on the fire, I agree with Fred. I'd also suggest that the strength of the RFC comes from the diversity of the groups opposing the firearms act. Trying to get one voice for all gun owners is like trying for one political party to speak for all voters. Never happened before. Won't happen now. Even the Communist parties of the Soviet Era could not claim to represent everyone. Looking to the south, the NRA in the U.S. is merely the largest pro-firearms group - it is not the only one. When we look at the NRA, we should not assume that they are speaking for all gun owners - otherwise there would be no need for, as examples, the JPFO or the Second Amendment Sisters or the Pink Pistols. The stalwart CUFOA members would have a hard time getting approval for such action under the umbrella of a firearms group that stood for lawful compliance of all laws. We should welcome the diversity, and carry on supporting the various groups as they continue to do their work to undermine this insidious piece of legislation - in their own unique ways. As much as many on this list crave membership in ONE group which speaks for all, this does not correlate to human nature. The Liberals thrived under Jean Chretien because he ruled with an iron fist, and the members held out their hands for goodies which he could dispense. Gun owners are not in the same category. It is our sense of individuality and willingness to NOT follow some political dictate which gives us strength. When one voice speaks for gun owners, it becomes predictable - and the political machine can program against it. When many voices speak for gun owners, they can swarm and attack (perhaps in small bites, but attack effectively) in ways that the political machine cannot predict or counter. I belong to several firearms organizations - and am a member of more than a few shooting ranges. There are many small town ranges in eastern Alberta, and western Saskatchewan, with membership fees at $15.00 to $20.00 per year. The combination of friends and facilities exceeds anything that I could find in one organization - and each group tailors their activitues to the local demand. This is our strength, not our weakness. Jim Szpajcher ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:32:49 -0600 (CST) From: JP Poulin Subject: Re: Sheilah Baby on the National on CBC On 10/18/2003 09:40 -0500, Bruce Mills wrote: > Did anyone else catch the very lengthy "inteview" with Sheilah Copps on the CBC > National "News" last night? I can't take her, so I refuse to watch. I was born and raised in Hamilton and who can forget Sheila. Her father Victor Copps, raised her to be the true Liberal trough feeder that she is and always will be. She has no sense of reality or connection with the people. Only what the trough dictates. Her Tim Horton donut campaign start was typical of her style. Far removed from reality. There are many who love her in Hamilton because of daddy, but I for one will be glad to see her backbenched when Martin is installed. He has no use for her either. Just another spoiled brat to contend with. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:56:13 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Pam's Boobs Hey, great site! Lets face it....if we could get a pro-gun babe that looks like Pamela Anderson posing with bandoliers, pistols, etc., we'd love it! There's gotta be someone like that out there we could recruit......she doesn't have to be cheesey or sleasey - just the opposite. A while back, 'Esprit de Corps' magazine had a cover with a good looking lady in a black bra wearing combat webbing harness. The story was the expenditure of nearly half a million to come up with a "Combat Bra". (I thought Madonna had that sewn up a long time ago.) She wasn't an air headed bimbo and wasn't showing much. She did have an air of "don't mess with me 'cause it would be a mistake", but it was tastefully done. Man, would that rot the socks (and bra of Wendykins & Co.)! Anybody got a volunteer poster girl? Todd Birch ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:09:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Pam's Boobs Todd Birch wrote: > Man, would that rot the socks (and bra of Wendykins & Co.)! Anybody got a > volunteer poster girl? There's always the Swedish Bikini Team... http://www.sportshooter.com/events/swedishbikinis.htm Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:49:50 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: My letter to the London Free Press Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: BEING ON NRA BLACKLIST A BADGE OF HONOUR Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:48:12 -0400 From: Bruce Mills To: Editor - London Free Press Robert Ripley must be related to that other Ripley, of Believe it or Not fame, because I checked the "blacklist" at the NRA web site and I couldn't find his name anywhere. I even conducted a site-wide search for his name, and came up with nothing. My guess is that the NRA has neither heard of, nor cares about, Robert Ripley. I would venture that instead, in true deceitful gun grabbing style, Mr. Ripley simply put his name on the "petition" presented on the web page he touted in his column. What the web site doesn't say is that it is sponsored entirely by that bastion of freedom, the Brady Campaign and Million Mom March, formerly known as the Violence Policy Center, formerly known as Handgun Control Inc., the premier anti-gun-rights organization that still exists. They are known liars, deceivers, and perverters of the truth. Ripley mindlessly regurgitates the misrepresentations provided to him by these miscreants. I'll wager that he has never even read the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" he parrots the gun-control line about. It is not a bill "that would protect negligent gun dealers and gun makers against lawsuits"; it is a bill that would stop frivolous (and costly) lawsuits for damages "resulting from the misuse of their products by others". This bill does nothing to stop a lawsuit if one of these products were found to be flawed through negligence. Such a law will not offer "immunity to the Bull's Eye Shooter Supply" for contravening Federal gun laws for failing to keep track of their inventory properly. This is but one example of the lies they promulgate. They will stop at nothing to strip their fellow citizens of their rights. Ripley only wishes he was in the same league as Mike Myers or Shania Twain. Unfortunately, the best he can do is claim association with the likes of the Brady Bunch. It's sad, really. Believe it or not. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:12:35 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Subject: Re: Response to Rick Lowe - National gun group. Fred Hoenisch wrote: > Rick - your post suggests you missed the point I was aiming for. No, I was pointing out that the BCWF tels its' members that it isn't just about conservation related issues, but also about defending the rights of firearms owners, but that doesn't seem to be happening. And frankly, most members don't appear to care. > I believe ALL the groups I listed are active in "promoting and defending the > rights of all anglers,...". If you disagree, tell me which ones. I didn't I think you meant the rights of firearms owners. In my case, I happen to think the BCWF has become largely inactive since the original efforts to block the Firearms Act failed - an effort the BCWF did put a lot of effort into. I am fairly certain that the Firearms Committee is largely inactive, and there doesn't seem to be any particular objection to that inactivity by anyone. > that could do it all - but there isn't. I was trying to offer an answer to > the seemingly regularly asked question: "Why do we (in the RFC) have so many > groups?" This seems to be the *scapegoat* for why we aren't "united" - and > I disagree with that sentiment. The issue of fighting unjust and senseless legislation is not quite the same as running your own competitive shooting program, working on local wildlife issues, etc and so forth. It is a direct confrontation with a very large and very powerful government. It is also a situation where "divided we fall, united we conquer" applies. > I don't know what groups you are actively involved with/volunteering for > (this is not intended as a challenge), but the reality I keep seeing is that > each group usually has a very small number of really hard workers (ie. the > folks that everyone calls upon to do/organise/coordinate pretty much > everything). It would take many many more volunteers before we could even > begin to see expansion under each group. Yeah, which is why I believe that we will be largely ineffectual until we find a way to band together and pool together those people who are willing to do the work instead of just moan and bitch. Instead of them working in many groups of ones and twos, they can work as a unified force. But that takes the support of the majority of firearms owners and the cooperation of those who have found themselves at the head of various organizations. So far, that support and cooperation hasn't happened. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:13:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Dewey" Subject: Re: Pam's Boobs Hi Todd I've got a poster here in my room,,that is just the ticket for your purpose. It was put out by a Calgary gun store,,now long gone,,, shows a good looking girl with a great pose,with a gun belt on which is holding a Colt Govt in a x draw holster with a matching pair of mags on the other side,,And she is holding a Galil .308 on her hip,muzzel up. She is dressed in a back thong type deal on the lower,,a sports bra ,,rolled up,,just resting on her nips...on top.. And her look is a" AND???????????" It's about 36" x 23" full color poster..Printed in Canada.... Where do you live?? if you don't mind me asking??? I wish I had a Digital camera. I'd send you a copy. I have always liked it,,and people who have seen it,, all comment on it.....Positively !!!! I might add,,even females have ALL commented on it favorably I was told it sold a lot of Galil's for them. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:18:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: A response to Fred et. al. (yes I'm still beating that drum!) Dear Digest, I think it is high time that the RFC face some simple truths about Canada: o No true small c party will ever be elected in Canada -- EVER. There is no white knight. None. Nada. Forget it! o The new "Conservative" party is not going to be any less red than the current PC party -- not one bit if they hope to be elected, and they will throw the RFC to the wolves in order to gain power -- in a heartbeat. No matter what platitudes are given to us by individuals, in the final analysis -- WE are the ones who must change. o Most Canadian voters fall into one of four classes: - criminals who use illegal firearms - responsible firearms owners - people who hate all firearms - people who don't care, as long as crime is controlled, and no careless accidents happen. I will leave the percentage breakdown to those who have such "statistics". Note that "civil libertarians" don't even make the radar screen. As far as Canada is concerned -- they don't exist (except a few rednecks out west). o Canadian voters have not been taught to differentiate between criminals and the RFC -- in fact the government works hard to blur the distinction. o Licensing of automobile drivers and aircraft pilots is expected and desired since each of these activities require a minimum level of training and competence. This is what Canadian voters expect, and desire. o When either hunting, or standing on a range, one would like to know that the people with firearms all around them are neither mentally or criminally irresponsible, and that they have a minimal competency to be responsible for their firearms. It is your opinion that I am somehow diminishing your rights by advocating licensing. It is my opinion that you jeopardize the future of my sport by your unwillingness to compromise. Stalemate. In truth: o Canadians (all of us) need to be protected, or be afforded the ability to protect ourselves from the criminal element. Self defense? Why not?!! o Canadians need to be protected from (or have the reasonable assurance of safety) with respect to RFC firearms (our guns). That is not unreasonable. We all know people who probably should not own firearms. o The RFC needs to be protected from the Anti's and government types who "don't like guns" (Alan Rock, Windy Wendy) -- and to ensure our rights to firearms are not impinged. That's right, OUR rights need protecting. Different, huh? Your reticence to give anything at all effectively removes you from the political process. Compromise is the very essence of politics, and given the truth of Canadian realities (left centrist forever) you must get with the program, or lose ALL OF YOUR RIGHTS. You can't win if you don't play the game, but you can surely lose! Frankly, I think that the RFC can come out of this smelling like a rose if we are prepared to do what is necessary to ensure our rights and that of our children. By putting together a draft legislation which encompasses a small bit of compromise with a whole lot of common sense -- we offer the politicos a chance to get out from under the mess they made, and for the Canadian voters to applaud them for it. I have to continue. It is the only answer that makes any sense. You disagree, fine. I'll do it myself said the little red hen. But I could sure use some help! Think about it! Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:18:44 -0600 (CST) From: rae baker Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #591 Your fearful of the Cretien and Martin, but the Conservatives (If they decide to make Mike Harris their leader) he will sell everything in the country to private hands eg Trans Canada Highway,all the Power companies, close and make all health prgms private and the hospitals as well. He was a disaster to Ontario and would be evn so in all of Canada. the Conservatives still don't know what they are doing and are in a rushing to bring disaster to the rest of us. Rae Baker ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:21:52 -0600 (CST) From: The Jordan's Subject: Proposed changes to "regulations" Many still do not seem to understand some of the finer workings of parliament. I would like to share this bit of information from my mentor (I have permission) - some things you may know about (firearms people are in general more knowledgeable about these things since we have HAD to become more knowledgeable) - but there are other things here that you may NOT know about. The more educated and informed we can ALL become about how the system works, the better prepared we will be to play the system in ways that work. Linda - -------BEGIN message------ "Proposed changes to regulations"... can be read on the Canada Gazette, but the key word is "regulations' not "legislation". When legislation is passed into law, after third reading and a yeah vote, it goes to the Senate for ratification, review, "sober second thought". Then, and only after, they pass it, it is published in the Gazette, it becomes law. (the Senate can change any legislation except money bills, and send it back to the House) Some legislation has been passed, yet not published yet, for political reasons, just sitting there, ready. There are good reasons for that. Since Trudeau, more and more power goes to the ministerial level to "regulate", and that is one big problem with the Firearms Act, it puts all the power with the minister of the day. Combine that with, after second reading, legislation goes automatically to committee for study and maybe revision, you see the backbench MP is out of the loop. When it comes back on the floor for third reading, it is very difficult to get amendments to it. Plus, the incumbent party gets to chair the committee's, and loads them with party members, they are allowed to do that. So, if you do not get a chair, you try to at least get on the committee. More power, more money, more prestige, keeps the wife happy as well, if she is in Ottawa. "my husband is on the Defence Committee" are good bragging rights. One more reason we can get changes, a new minister, plus, changes do not have to go back to the House or Senate for a vote. Easier to get done. No face saving, and I may ask for "no cheering" when and if we get results, no rubbing it in to the Liberals. We will let them take all credit, why not? Martin can say he listened to Western Canadian concerns. Legislation, planned, you have to buy dinners in Ottawa, know the Civil Servants well, and they talk, if they trust you. Otherwise, you have to wait until they go on the order paper, too late. The Government House Leader, (now our friend Don Boudria) (friend?) puts the proposed legislation on the Order Paper, with consultation with the other parties House Leaders. It is a club. For the record, the PC's could have killed C68 in the Senate, they had the majority to do so, and did not, It passed with a huge majority there. So much for PC's and their stance now. Who can we trust? Had they voted to sent it back, it would have died as the House was prorogued, the session ended. - -------END message----- ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #595 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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