From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #599 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, October 19 2003 Volume 06 : Number 599 In this issue: Re: Five Questions Survey - Doubting Thomas/Devil's Advocate Re: Survey re the Firearms Act (no subject) Our troops 'best equipped' High-tech communication creates troubles on campaign trails Registry prevents domestic killings In the Interest of Expanding the Debate We have liftoff Harris good choice to lead the new right? Re: Subject: Why Licensing Is Inherently Evil agreement.pdf (application/pdf Object) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:42:25 -0600 (CST) From: JP Poulin Subject: Re: Five Questions Survey - Doubting Thomas/Devil's Advocate On 10/19/2003 14:01 -0500, Ed Sieb wrote: > Bruce wrote: >> I think it is time for our mystery "benefactor" to reveal >> themselves and provide us with their _bona fides_. I'll >> bet you dollars to donuts that it is some back room >> Lieberal strategist, who is trying to milk us for all we're worth. > Maybe yes, maybe no, but one thing is for sure: as much as I want to help > Linda and respond to this "survey", I have never in my life responded to > anonymous surveys, or questionnaires from undisclosed parties. Whenever I'm > asked my opinion, I like to know who is asking these questions, and why. > And besides, it's also simple, common courtesy to identify oneself, when > asking strangers personal questions. This is why I think Linda's survey is a crock of crap. Why do people waste their time with anonymous frivolity. JP Poulin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:45:40 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Re: Survey re the Firearms Act JP Poulin wrote: > Do you believe women are now far more logical and less emotional than men > Bruce? If so Bruce, there's no discussion. I did not say that, and I will thank you to not put your words into my mouth. There is no discussion because *you* have already made up your mind. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:34:34 -0400 From: Bruce Mills Subject: (no subject) From: Bruce Mills Subject: National Citizens' Coalition wins again http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/jacobs.html October 19, 2003 National Citizens' Coalition wins again By MINDELLE JACOBS -- Edmonton Sun If Ottawa was truly concerned about voter apathy, you'd think it would welcome free-wheeling citizen participation in politics. Alas, the federal government has repeatedly made it clear that it would rather Canadians shut up and leave political debate up to those on Parliament Hill. Our political parties want your votes on election day, certainly. The rest of the time, they couldn't care less about you. And they especially don't want to hear from you during election campaigns. That's just too messy, you understand. Publicly expressed opinions might lead to a more vibrant democracy, greater interest in politics and wider discussions on public policy matters, and who wants that? I am referring, of course, to Ottawa's nefarious election gag law that imposes ridiculously harsh restrictions on what private citizens or groups can spend on advertising during federal elections. Like a dog with a bone, Ottawa just won't drop the issue, although courts have repeatedly said that particular section of the federal election law is unconstitutional and violates freedom of expression. The most recent admonition came last week when an Ontario judge struck down the provision that requires third parties that spend more than $500 on advertising during election campaigns to register with Elections Canada. It was another victory for the feisty National Citizens' Coalition, which has been battling Ottawa's election gag law for years. The media-savvy, independent, non-profit group has been nipping at the federal government's heels for a long time. Its arsenal includes the eye-popping Tales from the Tax Trough, which gives examples of what the NCC considers wasteful government spending. The NCC, whose motto is "more freedom through less government," survives solely on citizen donations, by the way. The Ontario judge didn't think much of the requirement that third parties spending more than $500 on advertising register with elections officials. In dismissing the charge against the NCC, Justice Paul Bentley concluded the law "amounts to an almost complete ban on freedom of expression." He also criticized the $3,000-per-constituency limit for election advertising for non-political parties. "The spending limit was so low, it amounted to a total ban on expression," the judge wrote. Ironically, the NCC ad that got Ottawa's shorts in a knot wasn't even an election ad. The 15-second spot the organization ran during the 2000 election campaign was simply an ad to raise funds for its court challenge to the gag law. The ad wasn't promoting any particular candidate or party but the feds charged the NCC anyway. Ottawa refuses to concede its gag law is bad legislation. The NCC won the first round in the case in June when Bentley ruled that the law's registration requirements infringed freedom of speech. But Ottawa persisted in pressing the issue in court again, arguing such an infringement is justified. Again, the government lost. In fact, as jubilant NCC vice-president Gerry Nicholls pointed out last week, this is the seventh time in 20 years that the group has defeated election gag laws in the courts. You'd think Ottawa would eventually get the message. There is no place for such restrictive election spending limits on third parties in a democracy. But the government has deep pockets, thanks to taxpayers' money, and it hasn't given up. The Alberta Court of Appeal ruled last year that the law restricting non-party ad spending to $3,000 per constituency and $150,000 nationally was unconstitutional. Now the government is appealing its indefensible stance to the Supreme Court of Canada. Ottawa apparently thinks it's fine to allow candidates and political parties to spend millions of dollars during elections while muzzling ordinary Canadians. The NCC is right. Political parties shouldn't have a monopoly on debate. Mindelle can be reached by e-mail at mindy.jacobs@edm.sunpub.com. Letters to the editor should be sent to letters@edm.sunpub.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:29:07 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Our troops 'best equipped' http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2003/10/19/229969.html Sun, October 19, 2003 Our troops 'best equipped' By STEPHANIE RUBEC, Parliamentary Bureau CAMP JULIEN, Afghanistan -- Prime Minister Jean Chretien defended his track record on military spending yesterday, boasting that the Canadian Forces have the best hardware in Kabul. And Chretien criticized the military for having a neverending wish list and for continually demanding more money. "But it's never enough," he said. "They all need more. And they all have plans for more." Chretien said he's been convinced, after meeting with Canada's top soldier in Afghanistan, Maj.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, that the military equipment at Camp Julien beats any hardware used by the other 30 nations participating in the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Kabul. "I asked them if they had problems with the equipment, but they said they are better equipped than any other country," the PM told reporters during a whistle stop in Kabul. "We have the best equipment, we are better equipped than anybody else in the area." SLASHED FORCES Chretien's government made deep cuts in the military budget after taking power in 1993, and cut the force size by 20%. Among NATO countries, only the tiny country of Luxembourg spends less than Canada on its military. Chretien said he was reassured by Leslie that the Canadian soldiers have all the hardware they need to do their job in Kabul. Chretien defended his government's treatment of the military, pointing out that in the past few years he has started boosting defence spending. "We treat the military very well. They are very well equipped," he said. Chretien also defended the 17-year-old Iltis jeep, pointing out that other forces participating in ISAF also use light vehicles, and that the Canadian troops are doing most of their patrols on foot. The Liberals failure to replace the problem-plagued vehicle has caused an uproar, since two Canadian soldiers were killed Oct. 2 by anti-tank landmines while patrolling in them. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:29:30 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: High-tech communication creates troubles on campaign trails http://www.canoe.com/CNEWS/TechNews/2003/10/19/230737-cp.html Sun, October 19, 2003 High-tech communication creates troubles on campaign trails By GILLIAN LIVINGSTON TORONTO (CP) - Instantaneous communication via e-mail, text messaging and hand-held Blackberrys has been a feature of recent Canadian political campaigns, providing strategists with faster and easier ways to get their message out. But the convenience has come with risks: gaffes like Nazi cartoons and accusations of kitten-eating have been spread much faster and to a much broader audience than back in the days when strategists took time and care before issuing news releases or formulating responses to campaign-trail troubles. "The communication has become faster, where you conduct a campaign in real time, not in the regular news cycles you would have normally seen in a bygone era," said Paul Rhodes, who was the director of media for the Ontario Tories during the province's recent election campaign. Ten days into the campaign, the Conservatives sent an e-mail to reporters calling Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty an "evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet." Many pointed to that bizarre outburst as the gaffe that sealed the party's eventual doom after McGuinty won a commanding majority on Oct. 2. "Communications can more easily go astray, they're more widely spread, they're more likely to wind up with your opposition than they were in the past," Howard Leeson, head of the political science department at the University of Regina, says of the new modes of communication being embraced by political strategists. "It's a double-edged sword." A case in point: an internal cartoon drawn by an employee of Saskatchewan's ruling New Democrats surfaced via e-mail last week. It depicted the leader of the rival Saskatchewan Party as a Nazi-like guard loading NDP sympathizers onto a train boxcar. The cartoon, deemed offensive by many, was released to the media by the Saskatchewan Party, along with related e-mails. NDP Premier Lorne Calvert, who had promised a clean election campaign, quickly apologized. The employee who drew the cartoon resigned and an adviser was fired. The scandal is thought to have cast a pall over the NDP campaign as the party attempts to stay focused on the issues, Leeson said. Voters go to the polls Nov. 5. But in a bid to stay ahead of the competition, election campaigns are increasingly seizing on the latest technology, including e-mail, the Internet, digital recorders, text messaging and hand-held Blackberrys. So when a party sends out a news release via e-mail, it gets everywhere quickly and can result in just as rapid a response from rivals - and attention from the media. Although the Ontario Tories tried to cast the kitten-eater comment as a miguided joke minutes after reporters received it, to voters it "symbolized everything they didn't like about the PCs," said Paul Nesbitt-Larking, a political science professor at the University of Western Ontario in London, Ont. The comment "came at a critically important time for the Progressive Conservatives and put the nail in the coffin of their campaign, reflecting as it did a campaign that was off-the-rails, that was off-message, that was vindictive and unpleasant," he said. Rhodes noted that with information being relayed in real time, "there is the greater likelihood of things getting out that you might, on second thought, not wanted to have gotten out." He added, however, that the kitten-eater e-mail was merely a joke that the media didn't get. Leeson says the key to minimizing the damage of such high-tech campaign gaffes is for leaders to apologize quickly and decisively, something Tory premier Ernie Eves failed to do. But even with the risk of gaffes, there are benefits to the technology. The Internet makes it easy to let the public know a party's platform. And with the proliferation of Blackberry mobile e-mail devices, leaders can quickly plan a response to a rival's attack. In Ontario's election campaign, the Liberals countered a controversy over their education platform by instantly releasing an internal memo they said suggested the Tories were trying to control the testimony at an independent SARS review. The result? "It completely blew the message" away from the education controversy," Nesbitt-Larking said. But he adds that strategists have to manage the new technology carefully to ensure the disasters don't outweigh the benefits. Party leaders have "to read the riot act to (their) campaign workers and say, 'Don't you dare make inappropriate comments'," and warn them that it only takes the touch of a button to let inside information out," Nesbitt-Larking said. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:29:52 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Registry prevents domestic killings http://www.canada.com/victoria/timescolonist/letters/story.asp?id=CB7E9A9E-A8DA-4B37-B71C-5A66AFA48965 Registry prevents domestic killings Times Colonist LETTERS TO THE EDITOR Saturday, October 18, 2003 Recent statistics show first-run results of our costly gun control law. Gun killings are down. The National Rifle Association will be unhappy, but short of shooting a few people to change the stats, what can they say? Their argument against gun registration is that criminals don't register their guns. They overlook the fact that domestic disputes among non-criminals trigger the rage that ends in shooting deaths. The cost of registration resulted in a lot of people not keeping guns in the house any more, so children cannot get them for school shootouts and Ma can't shoot Pa. Ron MacIsaac, Victoria. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:30:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Tom Falls" Subject: In the Interest of Expanding the Debate In this corner... if I may paraphrase: Licensing is inherently anti-democratic and our input as to the form of licensing is the moral equivalent of choosing the type of fence around the concentration camp we live in. And in this corner...again if I may paraphrase: we live in a less than perfect world. Like it or not, we will have to react to whatever form of slavery is chosen for us. We might as well take advantage of any sprig of olive branch the dove of peace offers us under the table in some back room boys deal. Those would appear to be our left and right of arcs (please pardon fire control terminology). Questions: 1. What system do we need to keep firearms from being legally transferred or sold to a. The mentally incapable. b. The criminally prohibited. 2. Will all accept that this registry of proscribed people be on line so you can look up the guy who wants to buy your Galil (without the poster)? Not much good if it isn't. 3. How do we convince the fearful and ignorant that it is far easier and more efficient to register those who shouldn't rather than those who could? You've got to sell the product, and I suspect our marketing and sales department will have to be a lot bigger than it is now if we are going to convince our neighbours of this. 4. Will we be forced to compromise and have a permit system for "unique" firearms such as full autos? If so, what will stop future functionaries from sliding uncle George's duck gun into the "unique" category? 5. If there are as many guns in Canada as there are cars, will we insist that the office down the block that renews our driver's licenses or car registrations can do our graduated FA permits for MG42 s at the same time? Why not? If the computer can tell them that cousin Jeb isn't allowed to drive, can it not also tell them he IS allowed to possess an Austen SMG? I am not proposing such a permit system, only demanding that if we end up with (another) one that it be community sited, customer oriented and NOT designed to fail. 6. The Anti's have been digging at this for a long time. They are very patient. Can we learn from our enemy? They take a little at a time. We are dying the death of a thousand cuts. Would we be happy with such incremental progress on our side? Tom Falls ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:31:16 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce Mills Subject: We have liftoff http://www.canoe.ca/WinnipegNews/ws.ws-10-19-0017.html Sunday, October 19, 2003 We have liftoff Cabinet jet-setters add to air miles before new boss takes over By Bill Rodgers OTTAWA -- The Chretien cabinet's high flyers, who may not get too many more chances before the boss retires, took to the skies last week during the Commons one-week recess, jaunting all over the globe. Heritage Minister Sheila Copps, who seems to always find a reason to visit France, was in Paris again last week and tacked on a quick side trip to Croatia. Pierre Pettigrew jetted off to Geneva and Bangkok. Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Stephane Dion found government business to do in Cardiff, Wales, London and Paris while government House Leader Don Boudria slipped out of the country to visit dignitaries in Cairo. As for the boss himself: he left on Friday for Thailand, China and India, with a quick stopover in Kabul, Afghanistan, to cheer up the troops. - --- A lot of resumes are being dusted off in offices all over Parliament Hill. Nervous staffers in the offices of Tory Leader Peter MacKay and Alliance boss Stephen Harper know a merger between the two conservative parties will mean the high jump for many. One Tory staffer told Cap Chat that the photocopy machines are working overtime as people prepare for the unpleasant job of hunting for work. - --- NDP Leader Jack Layton's communications director Jamey Heath called Capital Chat to say the party's poke at Paul Martin on its website www.flyourflag.ca is getting under the skin of Martin and his loyalists. The site deals with Martin's former CSL shipping empire and the flagging of some of its ships in offshore tax havens like Liberia. Heath said he took calls last week from breathless reporters who believed they had a "juicy tidbit" that the NDP was using an American company to host the website slagging the PM-in-waiting. "But call they did," said Heath, "having received a hot tip that only the most devious mind would think emanated from Martin." "No story has been printed on the charge because it's absolutely baseless ... all three companies involved in the site are Canadian." He calls it, "Classic Martin campaign tactics ... outwardly democratic, but ruthless against those with the gumption to dare to believe he's not perfect." - --- Note to the Ottawa Citizen city desk: Next time a reporter wants to follow Alliance Leader Stephen Harper around unnoticed, leave the bright yellow company car at the office. As Harper rushed from the Ottawa airport to meet Tory Leader Peter MacKay last Wednesday night, he noticed a reporter in one of the paper's not-too-subtle lemon yellow cars was tailing him. When Harper's car reached Parliament Hill and was going through the RCMP security checkpoint, Cap Chat is told he asked the officer on duty to take his time doing the mandatory security check on the reporter's car. "He told the security guy he was being tailed and told him to detain (the reporter) for a bit and he did." Who said Harper doesn't have a sense of humour? - --- That great Canadian conservative Hal Jackman must be a happy man today. Jackman, a former lieutenant-governor of Ontario, has been moaning for some time now about the decade-old split between the PC Party and the Reform/Alliance, even threatening recently to vote for Paul Martin's Liberals if the two parties couldn't hammer together one national conservative alternative to the Grits. "It's the combined party that is my party," whined Jackman. Seems Jackman had already made his decision long before he made those comments last month. When ethics counsellor Howard Wilson revealed the leadership campaign contributions made to Paul Martin's blind trust, guess whose name appeared at the very top of the list? A numbered Ontario company owned by none other than H. Jackman. He contributed a cool 10 G's to the Martin juggernaut. A check of Elections Canada records revealed Jackman has been plumping up federal Liberal Party coffers since at least 1997. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:37:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jordie Fulton Subject: Harris good choice to lead the new right? >You just have to know that if the editors of the Toronto "Red" Star think that >Mike Harris is a bad choice for the leader of the new Conservative Party, that >that is exactly the way to go. That's crazy talk. Were you paying any attention at all to what just happened in ontario? Voters turfed the conservatives resoundingly, largely due to dissatisfaction with a legacy which Harris created. Do you really think that they're likely to turn around and vote for him on a federal level? I though the idea of uniting the right was to _break into_ ontario, not to slam the door. Much as you might wish that voters felt differently about harris's ill-conceived & shortsighted (MHO) agenda, it's pretty clear that they don't. Namecalling won't change that. This merger (and upcoming leadership choice) is probably the most important thing to happen to the firearms community in years, let's hope they don't blow it. While I don't know that I'd like to see this new party form a majority government, this merger seems to make a _minority_ government a likely outcome of the next election. Provided, of course, that they can keep their appeal broad enough to maintain the support of both PC and Alliance voters. (maybe even draw in some dissatisfied liberals? I know they're out there.) A minority govt., whether conservative or liberal, with the balance of power help by the bloc/ndp, would be the healthiest thing to come along in canadian politics for decades. (looking at the returns for the last election, this is exactly what we would have had if PCs and alliance had gotten it together and pooled their votes in 2000) The liberals are having a hard time getting bills related to the firearms acts passed as it is; imagine where we'd be now if they had to go to the opposition every time they wanted more money, etc. Safe to say that the ID card thing would also be going nowhere. Strong leadership with broad appeal is critical -- Harris shuts out Ontario & Quebec at the same time. Sound familiar? This is important, both for firearms owners and the country in general. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:37:58 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: Subject: Why Licensing Is Inherently Evil > I share what Bruce Mills says about licensing (as I did usually with his > many previous notes...). There is even one good excerpt I will cite (on my > web site, mostly in French): "All gun control laws are a sop to the > irrational fears that something might happen. This is based on the > fallacious notion that because some people cannot be trusted to use firearms > properly then nobody can be trusted." Yvon please post the url for your site. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumsit Contract : All Rights Reserved : Without Prejudice __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:38:32 -0600 (CST) From: Gordon Hitchen Subject: agreement.pdf (application/pdf Object) For the information of all interested parties. http://www.canadianalliance.ca/pdf/agreement.pdf ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #599 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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