From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #747 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, December 12 2003 Volume 06 : Number 747 In this issue: Home invasion penalty argued Teen charged after pellet gun brought to school Slasher Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #739 Re: changed status of '51 Navy Wendy's doing her homework Brazil set to bring in tough gun controls The Five Most Unthankful Nations To The United States THE POST: (Some Westerners even read into this a veiled promise to ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:06:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Home invasion penalty argued PUBLICATION: Windsor Star DATE: 2003.12.11 EDITION: Final SECTION: LOCAL NEWS PAGE: A2 BYLINE: Ellen van Wageningen Star Justice Reporter SOURCE: Windsor Star - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Home invasion penalty argued - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Jonathon Casey should be sentenced to eight years in jail for the gunpoint robbery of a young woman with her baby in their home, a prosecutor said Wednesday. "This offender must understand that when he gets out of jail, if he continues to commit crimes of this type, he will go back to jail for a very long time," said assistant Crown attorney Craig Houle. But Casey's lawyer, Kirk Munroe, told Superior Court Justice Terry Patterson that the 21-year-old Windsor man should be given a five-year sentence to allow for rehabilitation. "You can warehouse Jonathon Casey, but he is a young man. He will come back on the street some day," Munroe said. At the end of a trial in October, Patterson concluded Casey robbed Charlene Knapp while pointing a loaded sawed-off semi-automatic shotgun at her and her baby daughter. He also found Casey guilty of wearing a face mask while committing the holdup and possessing a prohibited weapon. Freedom stolen Casey pleaded guilty to possessing jewelry, electronics and cameras from Knapp's George Avenue home. He claimed he found three bags containing the stolen goods on a nearby railway track the night of the robbery. Knapp, 24, who testified at Casey's trial, moved to another province with her two-year-old after the robbery and wasn't in court Wednesday. "I wasn't just robbed of my possessions. I was robbed of my security, freedom and peace of mind," she wrote in a statement read by Houle. She suffers from depression, anxiety and a panic disorder since the robbery, she wrote. She has trouble sleeping because when she closes her eyes she sees Casey and hears her daughter's screams. Her daughter is "extremely clingy and hides from strangers," she said. Patterson said he will sentence Casey on Friday. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:17:38 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Teen charged after pellet gun brought to school PUBLICATION: The Chronicle-Herald DATE: 2003.12.11 SECTION: Metro PAGE: A8 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Teen charged after pellet gun brought to school - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- A 16-year-old boy was arrested Wednesday after showing up at a Dartmouth school with a pellet gun. A student inside Caledonia Junior High School spotted the boy standing outside with the gun at about 2:40 p.m., said Sgt. Don Spicer of Halifax Regional Police. "He was at the school to watch a basketball game but was refused entry," Sgt. Spicer said. "And then he was seen with the BB gun in his hand." The student told a staff member, who called police. The boy, from Dartmouth but not a student at the school, didn't fire the pellet gun, point it at anyone or threaten anyone with it, Sgt. Spicer said. No one else was near him when he was arrested. "There's nothing to suggest what his intention was but the investigation is in the early stages," Sgt. Spicer said. Police don't believe the boy went home to get the gun because he was spotted with it so soon after being turned away. The force's community liaison officers will visit the school, talk to students and "deal with any concerns they might have," Sgt. Spicer said. The teen was charged with possession of a weapon dangerous to the public and released Wednesday evening. He is expected in court next month. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:21:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Slasher PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2003.12.11 EDITION: FINAL C SECTION: News PAGE: A17 BYLINE: Lena Sin SOURCE: The Province - ------- Slasher, 13, sentenced to support, supervision - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- A 13-year-old boy who slashed another teen's throat in West Vancouver pleaded guilty to aggravated assault yesterday. He was sentenced to two years of intensive support and supervision and two years of probation -- but he won't be locked up. "I think it was an appropriate sentence given what the law states," said defence lawyer David Walsoff. "Essentially, it was an agreed upon sentence at the end of the day." A slew of conditions was also imposed on the boy, including counselling, reporting to a youth court worker, not to be in West Van and not have a weapon. He is allowed to use a knife only for eating. The Children's Ministry will find a new school for him. A charge of assault with a weapon was stayed. The Grade 8 student from Rockridge Secondary was charged after attacking a 16-year old, also from Rockridge, on Oct. 21 across the street from the West Van high school. The victim's mother said her son lost three litres of blood and had a 13-centimetre gash to his throat. Walsoff said the 13-year-old was relieved to have the case behind him. "He has a troubled background," he said. "He is not emotionally and developmentally where a 13-year-old should be. "I think he's anxious to move on to the next phase of his life. Surprisingly, he's holding up pretty well." The Young Offenders Act was changed to the Youth Criminal Justice Act last April 1. It emphasizes rehabilitation and reintegration, making it more difficult for judges to put teens in custody. lsin@png.canwest.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:45:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Thacker" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #739 Rick Lowe wrote > Subject: Re: The Five Most Unthankful Nations To The United States - In response to Rick...... Well so much for my thoughts on what Ryan wrote regarding Canada. I did send Ryan a note indicating that in many respects what he sees is what the media portrays and it tends to be ultra left and that most out west have values and beliefs more in line with the American west than we do with Toronto. What Rick talks about is history and I do not denigrate what he says but rather suggest we talk about now. I am for building a strong relationship with our friend and economic engine that drives our economy not belittle it. In fact in response to my note Ryan responded that he did actually like Canada and wished we could be better friends, and hopes it can still happen. I gave him this web site to visit as proof of what I said. I see that may have been a mistake. Not that what Rick said was wrong, but as usual with many of us on this page it is the way he says it. We seem unable to disagree without pissing on the other person. In any event below is an exerpt of what I had sent Ryan..... for better or worse ....You tend to hear what the media wants you to hear. The booing of the US national anthem in Montreal was big news. But did you hear about the following weeks game in Toronto. When the US went to play in Toronto the crowd cheered wildly at the US national anthem. Then in coaches corner (broadcast in the US as well) Don Cherry took on the government and Montreal railing against them. His point, which was that Toronto is more representative of Canadians than is Montreal, makes sense. Montreal is really not Canada, it is France, so should we be surprised. As he put it real Canadians are in Toronto and you can hear how they feel. Given the CBC is government subsidized he knew he was going out on a limb expressing these views and sure enough CBC called him on the carpet saying hockey was no place for this discussion. But he represents real Canada. A few days later I was listening to the Rich Albom show (from Detroit) and some Canadian called saying he supported the US and hoped that Americans knew that. Rich said he had saw Don Cherry on TV the other night and felt that Cherry really was the epitome of what a Canadian is, and more accurately reflects their feelings and beliefs; and Americans know that. Finally today in the Windsor star there was a poll out that showed that 45 percent of Canadians say we should have joined the military conflict. Believe it or not that is incredible. Now realize we have 30 million in Canada and 7 million of those are from Quebec (yes we do count them as Canadians but only because they did not ask me what to do). So about 25 percent of the 55 percent who say they are glad we stayed out of the war are not real Canadians... they are French.... well not really as there are a few million anglos in Quebec. In any event it is clear that the majority of English speaking Canadians would like us to be in the war with our good neighbor. This is not generally the word you hear from the media, or from our great leaders (who are perhaps the greatest jerks in this). ..... I wrote an article in the Windsor Star about this issue of support for the US and the response I got from fellow Windsorites was unbelievable. Before I wrote the article I was not sure of this but since then, the message seems clear. We do support our good neighbor......... this could be another letter to the editor James W. Thacker Professor Area Coordinator Management and Labour Studies ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:45:58 -0600 (CST) From: Jordie Fulton Subject: Re: changed status of '51 Navy Hey Todd, Did the CFC provide specific reasoning for their decision? As I understood it, the thing about the new production of Navies was that they were still manufactured by Colt, and they picked up the serialization where they left off; therefore, they are "a handgun manufactured before 1898." Colt manufactured 1851 Navies before 1898, (duh) this is a Colt 1851 Navy, ergo, Todd's Colt is an antique. If the CFC is saying that this is not the case, it seems that they are saying one of two things: 1. Todd's Colt is somehow a distinct model from the earlier production ones, and therefore doesn't count. (like winchester's "new model" 1886) 2. The definition of "antique" means that that particular handgun needs to have been physically created before midnight of Dec. 31, 1898 in order to be an antique. If their reasoning is (2), they are creating many new problems, as lots of non-serialized firearms were produced both before and after 1898, making it impossible to prove whether or not a given gun is an antique or not. In either case, I think their logic is debatable (surprise surprise) and I'd be tempted to fight 'em. I don't know if you've got time for such shenanigans, but I think it would be worthwhile to at least make them clarify their reasoning. If they're trying to say (1), I guess the thing to do would be to compare it to a pre-1898 production Navy, and challenge them to tell the difference. (I don't know, are there differences?) If they can't tell the difference, then they must be saying (2), and they may not want to open that can of worms. Just some thoughts, remember that just because some bureaucrat says something doesn't mean it's the law, much as they wish it were. Good Luck, jordie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:45:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Jason Hayes" Subject: Wendy's doing her homework Just had an interesting hit on my blog archives - see the details below. Note the Visitor IP; must be Wendy doing her homework. Probably too much to expect that reading "Missing Guns: Are the Canada Firearms Centre Estimates Off-Target?" (http://www.saf.org/JFPP14ch3.htm) will change her mind though, although she cannot claim ignorance of the facts now. - ------------------------ Jason Hayes - Principal Hayes Holdings Consulting hh@hayz.ws / www.hayz.ws Blog: www.hayz.ws/blog #1936 - 246 Stewart Green SW Calgary, AB, Canada T3H 3C8 - ------------------------ Visitor IP: 141.117.86.253 Date - Time: 11/Dec/2003 - 15:05:18 File Size: 62462 Bytes Page Accessed: http://www.hayz.ws/weblog/blogger.htm Referring URL: http://www.google.ca/search?q=+Are+the+Canada+Firearms+Centre+Estimates+ Off-Target%3F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta= For those who are wondering, the IP # 141.117.86.253 belongs to none other than OrgName: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute OrgID: RPI-3 Address: 350 Victoria St. Address: AB48 City: Toronto StateProv: ON PostalCode: M5B-2K3 Country: CA NetRange: 141.117.0.0 - 141.117.255.255 CIDR: 141.117.0.0/16 NetName: RYERSON NetHandle: NET-141-117-0-0-1 Parent: NET-141-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Assignment NameServer: NS1.RYERSON.CA NameServer: NS2.RYERSON.CA Comment: RegDate: 1990-06-26 Updated: 1998-05-12 TechHandle: KW111-ARIN TechName: Woo, Ken K TechPhone: +1-416-979-5000 TechEmail: kwoo@ryerson.ca OrgTechHandle: KW111-ARIN OrgTechName: Woo, Ken K OrgTechPhone: +1-416-979-5000 OrgTechEmail: kwoo@ryerson.ca # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2003-12-10 19:15 # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. Bingo!!! wonderful Jason. Gordon Moderator1@hitchen.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:53:48 -0600 (CST) From: "alan" Subject: Brazil set to bring in tough gun controls I hope that Brazil is also going to close all it's firearms manufacturers, i.e Taurus, this would be unjust if they supply affordable firearms and make money from supplying other countries, and their citizens cannot protect themselves. Tough on those who lose there jobs, it's for a "Good cause", the economy will gain from the high drop in murders, like England, Australia, South Africa great gun control success stories. Alan, Whitby Please turn off the html. moderator1@hitchen.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:03:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Hill" Subject: The Five Most Unthankful Nations To The United States I thought the article by Ryan Thompson deserved an answer. I was seeing red as I was writing so I sent it to my computer at work and finished it on night shift. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS Ryan You can trash Canada all you like. That is your prerogative but at least know what you are talking about. The masters of the destruction on 9/11 all entered the USA on papers issued by that Country. It was your own immigration policies that allowed them to stay and your own pilot schools that trained them to fly. It was your own airports that failed miserably in their security measures that allowed the persons onboard with weapons. This is something that continues to date with persons getting on board with loaded handguns and shipping persons via Cargo from one point to another. It is convenient to blame someone else when your own fail to take the proper measures to ensure security of your people. Some of the most sophisticated intelligence gathering organizations in the world all located in one place but too hung up on their own egos to share the information that would have prevented this disaster. It was Canada that took all your flights and any danger they may have incurred because your own were afraid their may be more terrorists enroute on international flights. The Maritime Provinces took the most of these in Halifax and Gander and in the following days while George Bush was thanking various countries for their assistance he as usual failed to mention Canada. You might want to check you history before you start throwing stones at anyone. Canada was fighting WW1 in 1914 while the USA got rich supplying equipment to both sides before realizing the position they would be in on the world stage and they jumped in late in 1917. We got a lot of back up from you on that one. The same scenario followed in WW2 until Japan forced you into the war that Canada had been in since 1939. You were quite content to follow the same pattern you did in the first war. The Japanese ruined that one for you though as they were allies of the Germans so at the end of 1941 you had to make ready to come over to assist in 1942. The first Gulf war which Canada assisted showed just how dangerous the USA could be for its allies, as more people were killed through "friendly fire" than by the enemy. We were there in Afghanistan while you dropped bombs on our heads but you did appreciate our snipers who could outshoot anyone you or the enemy put forth. The second Gulf war in the beginning was more of the same although we and many others did not get involved in what a lot of people looked upon as George Jr. trying to finish what George Sr. did not. The reasons for not getting involved were not ones put forth by the population who for the most part supported the war. Blame Canada seems to be the attitude in the USA today and it likely stems from the episode of the Simpson's by the same name. The first words from the Whitehouse when the power went out this year was "it was Canada's fault. This was picked up by the media and played for days even though we knew otherwise. Ohio, as far as I know did not secede from the USA and join Canada. I do not understand the concern over the gay rights thing. You never know it could act in your favor and a large part of San Francisco may decide to move north, Nah, too cold. The drug war drives your economy, after all if it was to go legit, what would you do with all the people now employed to try to stop it. Make it legal and tax the hell out of it! After all, that is what was done with alcohol, when you lost that battle after prohibition ended. People are still dying as a result of that but at least the government is getting its share first. You make the comment that if 20,000 Chinese troops landed in Canada tomorrow, the US would have to kick them out of the nation. You might be surprised at what would happen if this country were invaded. You see, the same spirit that existed when we kicked the Americans out of Canada and drove them all the way back to the other side of DC, and then burnt the Whitehouse down, just because you would not hang around to fight, still exists today! You might also be surprised to learn that we are not as dependant on you as you would like to think. I would check on your water situation and the power that runs your cities and find out where they come from. All those rivers do not flow north! Our great trading partner to the south devastated our beef industry because of one case of Mad Cow in the West. This has nothing to do with the industry in the East but we got hit anyway. The beef producers in your country are now enjoying a heyday with no competition and the longer it goes on the more they will protest when the ban is finally lifted. On the issues of the other countries you have targeted, remember that most of the allies had reached their destinations and beyond before you got off the beach on D-Day. As far as your liberating France, I think the other allies, including my two uncles who were with the First Canadian Paratroop Battalion, might have other opinions. As far as having anything to say about France supplying arms to anyone, remember who chose him to lead the country and supplied him with arms to do it then sat back and did nothing while he committed genocide. On Germany, you talk of rebuilding and feel that they should owe you something. Remember the lesson after the First World War when the allies decided to make Germany pay restitution for the war and that this was what led to the next war. Maybe you stayed in Germany too long or maybe it was the superior attitude that the Germans came to dislike. On Mexico, blame the people from a poor country who look across a border and see the riches there and try to partake of them. These people who come to your country at the behest of businessmen who pay them slave wages which is more than what they would get at home. Why not blame the businessmen who are not patriotic to Hire American? How about the politicians who have these same people working in their homes while others in their constituency go jobless? I realize you are only a young man yet but it might do you good to occasionally read history not written by an American. You might just learn something, you might not be happy with it but you will see there is great benefit in knowing your topic before you put it out there where more than just Americans are going to read it. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, NS, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:05:49 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: THE POST: (Some Westerners even read into this a veiled promise to shut down the gun registry.) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2003.12.12 EDITION: National SECTION: Editorials PAGE: A23 SOURCE: National PostPARTIES - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Martin's priorities - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- This is a historic day: For the first time since Kim Campbell's Conservatives were defeated in 1993, this country has a leader other than Jean Chretien. But what will Paul Martin's Canada look like? It's impossible to say, because until now Mr. Martin has presented himself as all things to all people. Most Canadians, giddy at the thought of something new, have given him the benefit of the doubt -- reading their policy wish lists into his sundry vagaries. Mr. Martin's approach was epitomized by his speech at Tuesday night's $700-a-plate fundraising dinner in Toronto. Most of the address was comprised of bland generalizations -- "Canada's evolving needs," "come together in common purpose for the common good," "we have to listen better to Canadians," and so forth. But by poking through the porridge, every constituency found something to treasure. Conservatives, for instance, had their hearts warmed by Mr. Martin's claim to review "every single existing government expenditure" and "shut down what doesn't work." (Some Westerners even read into this a veiled promise to shut down the gun registry.) The Toronto Star crowd cheered Mr. Martin's promise of a "new deal" for cities and more money for foreign aid. And for provincial-rights advocates, he pledged to usher in a new era of federal-provincial co-operation -- a clear slap at Mr. Chretien's often rocky relations with the premiers. Our greatest worry is that Mr. Martin will continue his quest to be loved by one and all now that he has taken office -- cutting obvious boondoggles, perhaps, but making up the difference and then some with expensive new programs. Before Mr. Martin starts writing cheques, we would urge him to listen to the International Monetary Fund. On Tuesday, the IMF released its annual evaluation of Canada's finances and prospects. In general, the document was "broadly favourable" toward our economy's performance, particularly given the many emergency draws on the public purse in 2003 (including SARS, mad cow and the summer power outage). But it also found that Ottawa has hit a ceiling: It is already spending all it should. "Departmental outlays have ... increased rapidly," the report noted. "In view of the more difficult fiscal environment and the new policy priorities that are emerging, further efforts to cut existing programs may be necessary...[B]old rather than piecemeal steps are most likely to be effective." In an apparently unintended bout of self-irony, Mr. Martin told his Toronto audience on Tuesday that "if you have 40 priorities, you don't have any." We couldn't have summed it up better ourselves. And as we see it, Mr. Martin's stripped down priority list should be this: Avoid ambitious new programs and make the government as lean as possible. Welcome, Mr. Martin. And good luck. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V6 #747 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:moderator@hitchen.org List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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