From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V7 #681 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, January 5 2005 Volume 07 : Number 681 In this issue: RE: [chat] OPP and their handguns Re: Long guns and hand guns two different species "Liberty" and Justice for All Re: Long guns and hand guns two different species re: Rock's salary is within the range ($180,500 - $212,300); Re: "Liberty" and Justice for All And this is a 'real' nasty gun What about Jerry? Re: OPP and their handguns Re: OPP and their handguns Re: Ex-cop guilty of weapons charges. Re: OPP and their handguns LETTER OF THE DAY COLUMN 134 Firearm/weapons offences: (Includes weapons turned in to RCMP Man charged in shooting will undergo exam USA - Accord Reached on Bill to Make It Easier to Sue Gun Makers Handgun stolen gunsmith in February 2002. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:41:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Pook" Subject: RE: [chat] OPP and their handguns I think that you are thinking of Glasser Safety Slugs, which I believe are a police only issue in the US. They are designed not to penetrate walls or people, so as not to hit "innocent" by-standers. Jim Pook Jim's Fishing Charters Box 326, Tahsis, BC V0P 1X0 (250) 934-7665 jim@tahsisbc.com Toll Free: 1 (888) 617-FISH (3474) www.jimsfishing.com www.tahsisbc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:42:51 -0600 (CST) From: wrpa Subject: Re: Long guns and hand guns two different species Letter: Long guns and hand guns two different species PUBLICATION: Cape Breton Post DATE: 2005.01.04 COLUMN: Letters Frank R. Sutherland PC party of Nova Scotia District Vice-Presidents dsuth@ns.sympatico.ca Maybe you should send him a note on his incorrect facts and do anything to the bad guns but leave me alone opinion. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:50:19 -0600 (CST) From: Phil Cottrell Subject: "Liberty" and Justice for All Just as a suggestion, I think more letters to the editor would be published if they did not conclude with: "Yours in Liberty" This (wrongly or not) often marks the author as either an American (eek!) or an (ahem) libertarian. Either way, the person vetting the letters is more likely to place those emails in the "furriner" or "looney" baskets. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:51:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: Long guns and hand guns two different species - ----- Original Message ----- From: wrpa To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Long guns and hand guns two different species > Frank R. Sutherland > PC party of Nova Scotia > District Vice-Presidents > dsuth@ns.sympatico.ca http://www.gov.ns.ca/legislature/hansard/comm/hr/hr011127.htm "The other person I would just point out is the President of the Richmond Tory Association. Mr. Frank Sutherland ran for the NDP in 1993 and ran again for the Tories in 1998. I am a little bit disappointed that he hasn't seen his way clear to run for the Liberals. (Laughter)" Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:53:32 -0600 (CST) From: dorm Subject: re: Rock's salary is within the range ($180,500 - $212,300); Obviously this doesn't include the billion he has cost taxpayers so far with his failed registry. As the man said,"Thank goodness we don't get all the government we pay for!" dorm NWT The old days are dead, and the old men are dying, and the young ones don't know what it means to be free. Gabriel Dumont (1885) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:00:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: "Liberty" and Justice for All - ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Cottrell To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:50 PM Subject: "Liberty" and Justice for All > Just as a suggestion, I think more letters to the editor would be published > if they did not conclude with: > > "Yours in Liberty" > > This (wrongly or not) often marks the author as either an American (eek!) > or an (ahem) libertarian. Either way, the person vetting the letters is more > likely to place those emails in the "furriner" or "looney" baskets. That is the signature that I use for my postings to the CFD. Most newspapers require that you supply your full name, phone number and address, which I do. I don't normally publish my, or anyone else's, address on the CFD without permission. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:42:17 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: And this is a 'real' nasty gun > Defence giant General Dynamics Corp.'s European Land Combat Systems > unit said yesterday it had formed a U.S.-based joint venture with > German contractor Heckler & Koch GmbH to make lightweight rifles for > the U.S. government. The 5.56-mm XM8 light-weight modular carbine > system is designed to be used by U.S. infantry soldiers and replaces > the current standard M16 > rifle and M4 carbine. I'm sure the hard working folks at the Gen Dyn - Strikker light armoured vehicle plant in Liberal London will cheer for this deal. It's my recollection the employees (of former GM, Diesel Division) are CAW members. No doubt, a bit of a hiccup for gun busting CAW Pres. Buzz Hargrove. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 22:11:34 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: What about Jerry? George said: > DART Team Transport - Off normal topic but interesting > > George Soininen Oshawa Ont the place where they keep electing Lieberals. But,,, what about Jerry Ouellette, former Minister of Natural Resources in the Mike Harris Ontario PC government. Best known for being asleep at the switch over C-68. He never did own up to accepting that it was the province that was responsible for gun owner licensing. In one conversation, he even insisted that Ontario had never 'grandfathered' some 160,000 'experienced' gun owners into FACs. He also insisted that the feds had not provided the opportunity for Ontario to do the same under Ch 39. Stood right proud in front of the throng on the Hill at Fed Up II. Must have a short memory. Many loyal PC Party supporters will also not easily forget how he was 'absent from his watch' when Iron Mike, in cahoots with the Schad Foundation, quashed the Spring bear hunt in Ontario. This chap could take a cue from Paul Steckle and Rose-Marie Ur. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 22:56:05 -0600 (CST) From: Keith de Solla Subject: Re: OPP and their handguns I'm pretty sure the OPP are issued ammunition with regular hollowpoint bullets. Pistol calibre hollowpoints are intended to expand on impact and stay in the target. - -keith mred wrote: > BlankRecently chatting with an OPP officer and he said they use mushroom > bullets in their .40 cal.Sig-Sauers..The reason he was given was that the > bullets FRAGMENT on impact AND PENETRATION,and therefore cannot pass thru a > perps body to do damage to an innocent bystander or whatever . > > Having used .22 cal.,mushroom bullets on groundhogs in Ontario in my youth? > I never saw one that would shatter in a dead animal. > > On the contrary , what apeared to be a pinhole on entry was a massive > hemhorrage in the internals of the said dead animal > (I did rough autopsies to see what damage they did) > > They did NOT shatter , but expanded exponentially in the internal organs to > bring on a quick kill....... > > All I have read about mushroom bullets, including their forbidden use in > time of war indicates that this was the intended and desired effect on > living tissue. > > Now my question is this: > > Are the bullets the OPP are using of a different material, > and construction and ability to expand and shatter as I was told or is this > just more government BS? > > As far as I`m concerned a Dum-Dum bullet has massive stopping and > destructive powere as the energy of the bullet is transformed by the rate > opf expansion into a deadly tissue imobilizer, and destroyer. > > Anybody got any answers for this question or any input at all is > appreciated. > Thanks > ed/ontario > > > > - -- Keith P. de Solla kdesolla@austin.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:14:39 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher di Armani Subject: Re: OPP and their handguns >I think the OPP officer is misinformed. "Mushroom" bullets are designed = >to expand, not fragment. There _is_ a bullet designed to come to = >pieces, partly for the reason the cop gave you. The name escapes me at = >the moment. If memory serves, the term is "frangible", the type of bullets hyped for use aboard aircrafts, etc. The bullet is designed to do what the OPP officer said, break apart and not exit the body. The theory is that shooting a terrorist with this type of bullet will not cause the entire aircraft to come down due to cabin pressure loss. Yours In Liberty, Christopher di Armani christopher@diArmani.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Order the pro-firearms documentary "Good Men vs. Bad Law", chronicling the formation of CUFOA and their January 1, 2003 Firearms Act Protest on Ottawa's Parliament Hill from http://diArmani.com. Available January 1, 2005: "Shootout At Rock Creek" covers the Gordon Hitchen Memorial Skeet Shoot at Rock Creek, BC, with interviews with participants, including Conservative MP Jim Gouk. "Illegal Acts" follows the CUFOA executive across Canada as they attempt to get arrested in every provincial capital for violating the Firearms Act. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 01:05:30 -0600 (CST) From: KELLY VENAAS Subject: Re: Ex-cop guilty of weapons charges. Do you think that this is what Lieberials and others bent on enslaving society had in mind when they said that "we are working towards a society where only the police and the military have guns"? - --- Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, January 4 2005 > Volume 07 : Number 679 > > > > In this issue: > Ex-cop guilty of weapons charges: 96 weapons > stored at at his house > "Had this house been broken into, can you > imagine... > California Bans a Large-Caliber Gun, and the > Battle Is On > Police seek help identifying suspect in > nightclub shooting > GANG LINK ALLEGED > Letter: Rifle doesn't equal murder > MAN ARRESTED AFTER PARKING LOT GUNFIRE > DEFENCE FIRM INKS RIFLE DEAL > North Korea sold $2.2M in arms to extremist > group in Philippines > SHOTGUN BLASTS > DEAD TEEN LINKED TO CRIMES IN DURHAM [Moderator's Note: Please do not attach the entire contents of the Digest to which you are responding. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:23:26 -0600 (CST) From: R_LaCasse Subject: Re: OPP and their handguns I think they are referring to the standard ERT/SWAT/etc. Hydra Shock or Glaser rounds that cause extensive "Shotgun" damage and a good sit down and kill. They do not go through much than a thick winter wear leather coat in .45 caliber, causing almost no penetration. They are those bullets that are full of bb's, like an ordinary shotshell shotgun round. We tested some .22 viper HP, and I fired a test round through a 2.5ft thick log diagonally at point blank, and the guys measured the exit as .22000, no expansion at all. Maybe it needed some arc distance to develop a spin to mushroom properly. ciao Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:25:14 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: LETTER OF THE DAY COLUMN PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2005.01.05 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: 18 COLUMN: Letter of the Day - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ LETTER OF THE DAY COLUMN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A 17-YEAR-OLD child lies dead, shot by police in the act of an armed robbery ("Cop kills store bandit," Jan. 1). Why would a young boy pick up a deadly weapon to rob a clothing store? Simply because he thought he could get away with it! Even if, by chance, he were caught, he would be protected by the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Mandatory sentencing, which is supposed to be imposed for firearms violence, is seldom, if ever, applied to a sentence in Canada, even in the case of adults. What the youth didn't count on was the presence of a well-trained and dedicated peace officer, whose life and career also now lay in tatters. If children are taking up arms then there is a reason for it. While the Liberal justice ministry quacks on about the Canadian Firearms Act and its useless gun registry, one can't help but feel that we might be better served by putting some teeth into the sentencing for firearms violence rather than spending all the money and effort registering uncle Bud's duck gun. That the young offender is a victim here goes without saying. But a victim of what? It seems to me that it is our lax justice system that is killing children. In the meanwhile, our condolences to the police officer who must forever live with the knowledge that he was forced by dire circumstances arising from the very justice system he is sworn to uphold, to snuff out the life of a mere child. Tragic. Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa EDITOR (If that 'child' had lived, however, we'd be calling for him to get an 'adult' sentence) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:26:26 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: 134 Firearm/weapons offences: (Includes weapons turned in to RCMP offices) Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: The Daily News (Halifax) DATE: 2005.01.05 SECTION: Local News PAGE: 4 BYLINE: Boomer, Rachel ILLUSTRATION: Keeping an eye out: Craig Condon of West Porters Lake headsup a neighbourhood watch program. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your neighbours are watching - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ About a year ago, Craig Condon looked out his window to see a group of men trying to steal a brand-new snowblower from his garden shed. "As soon as they saw me in the window, they took off," Condon said yesterday. In the late 1990s, frustrated with break-ins at garden sheds and houses, Condon's West Porters Lake neighbourhood organized a neighbourhood watch program, which Condon now leads. Condon said break-ins have been an ongoing problem in the area. A few years ago, one home was all but cleaned out by thieves, but, usually, it's just a shed or garage that gets robbed. "They're looking for things like snowblowers and ATVs, but they pick up cellphones." Condon doesn't know if the posted signs that advertise the program do anything to deter thieves, but figures it can't hurt. "Everybody is aware, and keeps an eye out." In 2004, the RCMP reported a slight increase in crimes such as assault, break and enter and firearms offences. Assaults were up to 1,378 across the Halifax detachment, from 1,329 last year, while break and enters were up to 1,219 from 1,127. RCMP spokesman Const. Joe Taplin says groups like Condon's have helped drive that increase, because they're reporting more crimes to police. "The community is starting to take a lot of ownership of their own communities back," Taplin said yesterday. 'Can't be everywhere' "As a police force, we can't be everywhere. We need the public's assistance, and I think this is a good sign that people are starting to come forward." Taplin said urban detachments such as Lower Sackville and Cole Harbour post higher crime numbers than rural offices like Sheet Harbour or Musquodoboit simply because of population. Lower Sackville showed 352 vehicle thefts in 2004, for example, compared to Sheet Harbour's four. "You're going to have higher crime statistics inside the city core. That's just due to population," Tap-lin said. Motor vehicles Robberies and thefts of motor vehicles seemed to have the highest increases in 2004; there were 66 robberies across all RCMP metro offices in 2004, compared to 44 in 2003. The RCMP reported thefts of motor vehicles were up to 763 from 583. Taplin said it's hard to predict crimes like theft, because they're often crimes of opportunity and can be tied to a criminal's own financial need. Sexual assaults declined slightly, to 160 in 2004 from 174 in 2003, while motor vehicle accidents involving property damage declined to 1,403 from 1,751. rboomer@hfxnews.ca CRIME STATISTICS Here are selected 2003 and 2004 crime statistics from across the five offices of the RCMP's Halifax detachment: 2004 Assaults: 1,378 Break and enters: 1,219 Motor vehicle accidents involving property damage: 1,403 MVAs with injuries: 506 Robberies: 66 Sexual assaults: 160 Thefts of vehicles: 763 Firearm/weapons offences: 134 (Includes weapons turned in to RCMP offices) 2003 Assaults: 1,329 Break and enters: 1,127 Motor vehicle accidents involving property damage: 1,751 MVAs with injuries: 476 Robberies: 44 Sexual assaults: 174 Thefts of vehicles: 583 Firearm/weapons offences: 118 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:27:25 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Man charged in shooting will undergo exam PUBLICATION: The Saint John Telegraph-Journal DATE: 2005.01.05 SECTION: News PAGE: A5 COLUMN: Courts/Crime BYLINE: Telegraph-Journal - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ River Glade man charged in shooting will undergo exam - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The River Glade man charged with the attempted murder of a police officer will undergo a 30-day psychiatric evaluation before returning to court. Michael R. Holt, 49, of River Glade, appeared in Moncton provincial court for his bail hearing on Tuesday, but waived his right to bail until he returns from being examined at the Restigouche Hospital Centre in Campbellton. He faces charges after a man fired a shot at the windshield of a police car in Salisbury on Sunday. Mr. Holt is also charged with unlawfully having a 12-gauge shotgun, discharging a firearm with attempt to kill, possession of loaded firearms, and unlawfully storing a firearm. He is also accused of uttering a threat to "kill all police officers." The balding man, dressed in a grey T-shirt and blue jeans, appeared in court in leg shackles. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:27:48 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: USA - Accord Reached on Bill to Make It Easier to Sue Gun Makers PUBLICATION: The New York Times SECTION: Metropolitan EDITION: Late Edition - Final DATE: 2005.01.05 PAGE: 2 BYLINE: WINNIE HU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Accord Reached on Bill to Make It Easier to Sue Gun Makers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Bloomberg administration has reached agreement with City Council leaders on a bill that would make it easier for crime victims to sue gun manufacturers and dealers who do not adhere to strict guidelines for selling and distributing their firearms. The bill, which is expected to pass the Council today, would allow civil suits to be filed against the manufacturers and dealers unless they voluntarily adopt a "code of conduct." That code would include restrictions like selling no more than one handgun to a particular person within a 30-day period and requiring background checks of all prospective buyers at gun shows. If a gun manufacturer or dealer chooses not to adhere to these guidelines, the bill seeks to hold those businesses legally responsible if their firearms result in death or injury to people in New York City. While the gun liability bill would be the first passed in New York, similar laws have been adopted in San Francisco and Washington. The San Francisco law seeks to hold gun manufacturers, importers and dealers responsible for injuries or deaths caused by their firearms unless they equip those firearms with certain kinds of safety devices. In Washington, they would be held liable if they sold an assault weapon or machine gun. In New York City, which already has some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation, the gun liability bill is part of a broader package of proposals intended to reduce illegal gun trafficking. The proposals also include ratcheting up penalties for people who violate the city's assault weapons ban and increasing the minimum age for permits for rifles or shotguns to 21 from 18. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who appeared yesterday at a news conference at Middle School 88 in Park Slope, Brooklyn, said his administration had been working closely with the Council on the gun control bills and pledged to sign them into law. "They make a lot of sense," he said. Councilman David Yassky, the main sponsor of the gun liability bill, said the gun industry had knowingly engaged in lax sales practices that allowed their products to fall into criminal hands. He said that holding manufacturers and dealers responsible was "the first big step toward shutting down the handgun highway that continues to flood New York City with illegal crime guns." Mr. Yassky had initially proposed an even stricter version of the code of conduct that included a provision prohibiting manufacturers from selling guns to retailers that had provided 20 or more guns traced to crimes in one year. But Council Speaker Gifford Miller said yesterday that the provision was dropped after national gun control groups expressed concerns that it would make the bill harder to defend against critics. Lawrence G. Keane, general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade association for the gun industry, said the code of conduct was unconstitutional and would be impractical and burdensome on manufacturers and dealers. "It's an attempt to regulate the interstate commerce in firearms by using the threat of lawsuits and monetary damages to coerce manufacturers and dealers to change their sales and distribution practices, which are lawful under federal and state law," Mr. Keane said. Patrick W. Brophy, a director of the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, which represents about 40,000 gun owners, said the code of conduct would only inconvenience gun collectors while doing little to reduce crime. He said that most gun dealers already perform background checks. "The means don't achieve the end," he said. Mr. Brophy said that his association is considering several options, including filing a lawsuit to challenge the new law. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:28:07 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Handgun stolen gunsmith in February 2002. PUBLICATION: The Windsor Star DATE: 2005.01.05 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A3 BYLINE: Sarah Sacheli SOURCE: Windsor Star - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Witness unsure of gun, trial told - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Duke Bracaj is on trial in Superior Court on eight charges related to pointing a restricted handgun at a man in an Albanian cafe on Erie Street. But the man, taking the witness stand Tuesday, testified he may have seen a bottle of beer or sugar container in Bracaj's hand, not a military-style handgun. "I thought it was a gun for a moment, but I wasn't sure," said Kola Bajraktari, testifying with the help of an Albanian interpreter. Bajraktari said Bracaj had called him on his cellphone Sept. 23, 2003, and asked him to meet at the cafe. Bracaj and four other men he knew were there when he arrived. One of the men, who is currently serving time at the Kingston penitentiary for drug trafficking, accused Bracaj of having called the police on him. Bracaj and Bajraktari then exchanged angry words. "People yelled, 'Gun!'" Bajraktari testified. Bajraktari grabbed a glass sugar container off a nearby table and threw it at Bracaj before running out of the building. WENT TO POLICE Bajraktari said he went to the back of the building, then returned to the front where his car was parked and went to the police. Bracaj, 34, was charged after a search by police and firefighters using high-powered lighting found a .45-calibre Glock handgun in the flower bed of a Forest Glade home. The silver and black weapon had been among firearms reported stolen from a Leamington gunsmith shop in February 2002. In addition to being charged with pointing a firearm at Bajraktari, Bracaj is charged with possessing a gun that was stolen, unlicensed, loaded and restricted. He is also charged with carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a handgun for a purpose dangerous to the public peace, careless use of a firearm and assault with a weapon. Bracaj was the victim of a shooting in the Lumberjack Restaurant a year ago. David Thibert, 21, pleaded guilty to shooting Bracaj and will be sentenced later this month. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V7 #681 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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