From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #101 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, June 2 2005 Volume 08 : Number 101 In this issue: 375,000 FOREIGN FIREARMS NEVER ENTERED IN GUN REGISTRY Re: Blog -- Where did they all go? Len Miller RE: Blog -- Where did they all go? letter to various papers (unpub) ... Critics seeing red over Mounties Crown Blocks Prosecution of Police Officers, Bloc helps Grits beat motion when rights are surrendered to the state Re: Letter, Self-defense is our right Committee prevents budget split Senseless Violence Martin admits wooing Grewal Yeah Right chief Pissot wants to see Parks Canada and CP Rail eliminate Grewal tapes altered: audio expert ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:29:58 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: 375,000 FOREIGN FIREARMS NEVER ENTERED IN GUN REGISTRY PUBLIC SAFETY MINISTER ADMITS 375,000 FOREIGN FIREARMS NEVER ENTERED IN GUN REGISTRY http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/inthehouse/misc/orderpaper_Q136_2005_05_30.do c ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:30:39 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Re: Blog -- Where did they all go? - --- Lorne Gunter wrote: > From my blog at Lorne, thanks for the info and thanks again to Garry/Dennis for their continued efforts. Finally, some solid proof of the level of deceit. I could spend weeks going through my files to get examples where Rock, McLellan, Cauchon etc. heaped scorn on critics who were "parrotting gun lobby statistics" by our use of the 18-21 million estimate of firearms. Consider this for a moment; even the governments own estimates put gun ownership at about 25% of the population. Maybe people were much more prone to answer surveys about gun ownership honestly back in the day when gun ownership wasn't being attacked by the government and treated by the media and non-gun-owning public as some sort of mental disease. There were 20 million people in Canada in 1966. Even if we give them the assumption that gun owners will admit to strangers over the phone that they own guns and that only 25% of the population owns guns, the latest information shows that at least 5 million Candians owned at least one gun prior to the importation of 11 million firearms into Canada post-1966. I thought I read somewhere that the typical gun owner owned between two and three guns. If the number were two, then the number of guns in Canada would be 21 million. If it were three, then that jumps to 26 million. Oh, and keep in mind that soldiers returning from both world wars brought back countless unaccounted firearms. Regards, Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:30:57 -0600 (CST) From: rbaker Subject: Len Miller You missed the tongue in check post Len. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:32:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1"@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: RE: Blog -- Where did they all go? Thanks Lorne and Barry for your analysis if these new data. As of May 2, 2005: 1,569,451 individuals had registered 7,029,163 guns - an average of 4.5 guns per gun owner. MAY 2005 - 7,029,163 FIREARMS REGISTERED SO FAR http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/issues/guninfo/newguninfo/FirearmsRegistered_ 2005_05_02.xls ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:42:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: letter to various papers (unpub) ... Dear Sir/Madame, It is entirely obvious that if gunplay is to be a regular part of urban life in Canada's cities, then innocent people are going to get hurt. The government's Firearms Act seems to have badly missed the target with respect to the criminal use of firearms, although it does a remarkable job of regulating those who need no regulation. Typical! Until politicians decide to send a clear message to criminals that violence will not be tolerated in a civil society, then we must resign ourselves to the collateral damage that we see in our streets. While Justice Minister Irwin Cotler steadfastly refuses to mandate tough minimum sentences as they "are not a deterrent to crime", I can only wonder at how he feels that our current "catch and release" justice system in any way serves as a deterrence? Fine, if we can't deter crime, let's try attrition. By putting violent thugs away for twenty years, I'm sure the crime rates will ultimately decrease, and recividism will also be greatly reduced, if only through old age. In the meanwhile, perhaps kevlar vests will become the next must-have fashion accessory for Canada's urban commuters. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:54:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Critics seeing red over Mounties http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2005/06/02/1067251-sun.html Thu, June 2, 2005 Critics seeing red over Mounties By MARIA McCLINTOCK, Parliamentary Bureau The RCMP is coming under fire for providing four officers in their famous red serge to attend Justin Trudeau's swank Montreal wedding, a move critics say is an inappropriate use of staff. The Mounties defended the assignment yesterday, stating the officers volunteered for the job and no public funds were used. A former Mountie, however, said it looks bad on the RCMP to provide such a service for a member of one of Canada's elite families. "I can't help but wonder the appropriateness of being essentially mascots at the social events of the rich and famous," said Ken Azzopardi, who retired from the RCMP in 1988 after more than 20 years of service. "It's a former prime minister's son, but so what? It's completely inappropriate. I'm just concerned that the force just cosies up to the governing party." Azzopardi, now CEO of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, said he has also posted a note of complaint to the RCMP's website. "You can't help but think this is the crown prince of the Liberal machine and ... there was some pressure applied to have somebody there. The RCMP should have said no." maria.mcclintock@tor.sunpub.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:03:53 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Gingrich Subject: Crown Blocks Prosecution of Police Officers, May 30, 2005 Press Release - For Immediate Release, May 30, 2005 Crown Blocks Prosecution of Police Officers, But Senior Citizen Victim Not Giving Up VANCOUVER - Crown Prosecutor Terry Shultes has given no reason for halting a criminal prosecution against two city police officers charged with assaulting a senior citizen. The decision was made in spite of an earlier ruling by a Provincial Court Judge that there was sufficient evidence to proceed with criminal charges. Despite the setback, Robert Woodward, the 71-year old victim of the police assault, is not giving up on his quest for justice. What made this case special is that a private citizen began the prosecution, rather than the Crown, and received judicial approval to do so. Under the Criminal Code, individual citizens can initiate criminal proceedings without the assistance of either the police or the Crown. Howard Rubin, a former Crown prosecutor, took up Woodward's case on the request of Pivot Legal Society, an organization dedicated to improving the lives of marginalized persons. The private prosecution stemmed from an incident on September 4, 2004. Robert Woodward, a senior citizen from Surrey who collects toys to give to women's shelters in the Downtown Eastside, was in his car taking Tylenol 3. Woodward has a subscription for the pills because of chronic pain, due to an industrial accident that paralyzed him for 12 years. "I had put the Tylenols in my mouth when someone grabbed my throat and shoulder and literally dragged me out of the car," said Woodward. "There were two officers. One slammed me into a wall face first, and yelled 'Spit it out!' When I spit out the pills, my teeth came out as well." Woodward suffered serious cuts to his left hand and right shoulder, and his stomach started to bleed from old injuries that split open. Lawyer Howard Rubin requested that an outside, objective police agency be brought in to conduct the investigation. However, Crown Counsel refused, and instead asked the Vancouver Police Department conduct its own investigation against the officers. Crown Counsel has not disclosed the results of that investigation to Mr. Woodward or his lawyer, nor has it released the reasons for its decision to halt the prosecution. Woodward isn't waiting to find out, however. He has started a petition, gathering signatures from people opposed to police investigating themselves. Woodward plans to present the petition to the Vancouver Police Board, and ask them to support external investigations. "It's ridiculous that they are going to let the police decide for themselves if they assaulted me or not" said Woodward. "They took on the wrong man, if they think I'm going to let them get away with that." Woodward has already gathered more than 100 signatures from people opposed to police investigating themselves. __________ Further Comment: Robert Woodward (604) 581-3925 Howard Rubin (604) 984-2030 - ---------------------- About Pivot Legal Society Founded in 2000, Pivot Legal Society is a non-profit organization and leading advocate for marginalized people such as drug users, sex workers, and homeless people. Pivot's mandate is to advance the interests of marginalized persons through the use of law reform, legal education and strategic legal action. - ---------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Pivot Newswire, just send a note with that subject line to newswire@pivotlegal.org. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:12:19 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Bloc helps Grits beat motion http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/News/2005/06/02/1067253-sun.html Thu, June 2, 2005 Bloc helps Grits beat motion By CP The Liberals, aided by the NDP and Bloc Quebecois, successfully fought off a Conservative motion yesterday that would have called on Justice John Gomery to name names in the sponsorship scandal. The vote was 192-92 against the Tory motion. Public Works Minister Scott Brison, the lead minister in the Commons on questions dealing with Gomery, had called the motion "useless." He said the commission can already name names and assign responsibility. Justice Minister Irwin Cotler said that had the motion passed, it could have derailed the inquiry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:15:00 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: when rights are surrendered to the state I would like to commend you on your response to Bob Weitz's letter (Target criminals instead, May 30): "Meanwhile, further disarming law-abiding citizens will make crime that much easier." Yours is one of the few news media that actually seems to understand this concept. "Gun-control" laws do no such thing; they only control the law-abiding gun owners, who already observe the laws against the criminal misuse of guns. Criminals simply ignore these laws, like they do all the others. Criminals are cowards -- they prefer to prey on the weak and unsuspecting. In U.S. states that pass "shall issue"concealed carry laws, there is an average drop in confrontational crimes of 24%. There are no "shootouts in the streets" as anti-gun rights extremists always screech. If we were allowed by our benevolent governments the freedom to exercise our right to self-defence, the criminals wouldn't know who was armed. They wouldn't know who to victimize. Therefore, even those who would deny that right would accrue the benefit from it. It's not just an idea -- it is our right. Bruce N. Mills Dundas, Ont. (Not when we surrender it to the state.) BRUCE AS USUAL has written a clear and concise letter , right to the point. what is more telling is the editors comment in brackets above. So what is it that must be done to remove the surrender of those rights from the state. Clearly the government doesnt listen...at least the Liberal government. The conservative sort of listen. The NDP sees, hears and speaks no evil unless there is something in it for them. This bears some thought, and it is from thought that ideas form and from there action and to material happenings. Perhaps these thoughts could take the form of clear expectations from the various parties if they want our vote. I am not taLKING about the lame one where the CP says we will scrap the registry..empty jesture, as they know it doesnt work and will cost them nothing to do it. his is opur time. it is now that we can effect a change because of the precarious position that all parties find themselves in. it is now that we would exasct our pound of flesh from these feather merchants. Think about it...what sort of gun control if any do you want in Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:41:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Al Muir" Subject: Re: Letter, Self-defense is our right > Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:25:52 -0600 (CST) > From: "Bruce Mills" > Subject: [LETTER] Self-defence is our right > > Winnipeg Sun > Bruce N. Mills > Dundas, Ont. > > (Not when we surrender it to the state.) They just keep getting better and better. Now that's what you call responding well to praise. Others of us would do well to heed their advice. PS Well done Bruce! Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:53:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Committee prevents budget split http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=cd295bf6-7b42-4839-a9c8-813fbf2 67a21 Committee prevents budget split Canadian Press Thursday, June 02, 2005 OTTAWA -- Liberal and Bloc Quebecois MP's have defeated a Conservative attempt to split the budget bill into smaller components for a final vote in the Commons. The Conservative motion was put by Tory Peter MacKay to the Commons finance committee. It would have allowed an immediate vote in Parliament on budget provisions for increased payments to Atlantic provinces for offshore oil resources. The motion would have stopped committee study of all budget legislation, including measures to win the NDP's ongoing support of the minority Liberal government, until after a final Commons vote on the Atlantic Accord. Bloc MP Yvan Loubier says he couldn't support the Conservative attempt because he won't indulge in motions that unnecessarily slow the budget process. © Canadian Press 2005 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:04:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Senseless Violence http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050601-021/page.asp Senseless Violence CITY-TV June 2, 2005 Two double shootings less than five hours apart wrapped an ominous aura around an otherwise beautiful day in Toronto on Wednesday. The first incident took place in broad daylight just outside the Yorkdale Mall subway station. Two females suffered non-life-threatening leg injuries in what frighteningly appears to be a random act of violence. The women didn 't know each other, but both fell victim when gunmen opened fire from a parked car. The victims, aged 27 and 23, were both gunned down while stunned pedestrians scattered and took cover. Jenn Chu was one of them. "There were three gunshots being fired and everyone started running," she explained. "So I ran through the tunnel and came back down just to make sure my dad was okay." "I got to the scene and there was a woman at the bottom of the steps and she had been shot through her left thigh, and.there was blood everywhere and she was on the floor like screaming." Police say the bold attack happened just before 6:00pm. "Late model 2004/2005 Toyota Tercel, probably silver coloured, that had three male black occupants in it, we believe, and one of the occupants fired several shots," relayed Inspector Tom Fitzgerald. Police say both the driver and passenger were armed with handguns. The suspects got away and were last seen heading east down Yorkdale Road. "Clearly this is gang related and we believe it to be drug related," outlines Chief Bill Blair, who vows to bring the suspects to justice. Detectives are reviewing T.T.C. security video in the hopes of spotting the wanted car. "Those tapes are being reveiwed by investigators ... and we are pursuing every investigative lead to find the persons responsible for this act," Blair promises. Another double shooting took place just hours later in the Humber College area of Etobicoke. One victim was rushed to Sunnybrook Hospital, the other to Etobicoke General. Police believe robbery may have been the motive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:28:20 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Martin admits wooing Grewal http://www.canada.com/regina/leaderpost/news/story.html?id=cf9f122e-fcb4-47b a-b9f2-02c49cacf2fd Martin admits wooing Grewal Anne Dawson and Allan Woods, with files from James Gordon CanWest News Service Thursday, June 02, 2005 Prime Minister Paul Martin said he told staff they could "pursue discussions" with Gurmant Grewal, but not make an offer. OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin said Wednesday he condoned the secret talks between top Liberals and Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal to join the Grits and was prepared to meet the Tory MP to complete a deal. But the prime minister maintained he did not authorize an offer to be made to entice Grewal to change parties on the eve of a crucial confidence vote. "I essentially said to members of the government and my staff that they could pursue discussions, but that under no circumstances could any offer be made and no offer was made," Martin told a raucous House of Commons. Conservative Leader Stephen Harper pounced on the shift in Martin's story. "Now he admits he did authorize his senior people to engage in discussions," he said. RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli and Ethics Commissioner Bernard Shapiro are considering investigations into the vote-buying allegations stemming from the secretly taped conversations between Martin's chief of staff Tim Murphy, Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh and Grewal. Harper, however, threw his support behind Grewal, contrary to skeptical caucus colleagues, and said he was aware of the negotiations. But he told his B.C. MP not to meet with the prime minister for further discussions. After meeting on Wednesday with his caucus, Harper explained he first learned Grewal had made audiotapes in a May 17 telephone conversation with the MP. Grewal told Harper the tapes had "damaging" information that could hurt the Prime Minister's Office, the Tory leader recounted in his first public comments about the tape. Harper said he trusts his MP's stated intentions -- to expose the Grits -- because Grewal was "always clear" he had no plan to abandon the party. "What the tapes of Mr. Grewal show is exactly the process they use. I think the only issue now is why they (the Liberals) continue to lie about what they've done," Harper said. Other Conservatives were not so trusting of Grewal's motives, questioning why he had four hours of discussions with Murphy and Dosanjh if he had no intention of leaving the Tories. Some said they think he had every intention of defecting to the Liberals if he could have secured a diplomatic or cabinet post for him and his wife Nina -- a fellow Tory MP. "I don't trust him. He's had shady dealings -- we'll leave it at that," said one MP. Another Tory source said Grewal was rebuked by several of his B.C. caucus colleagues in a closed-door meeting Wednesday for "embarrassing" and "unprofessional" conduct. "I thought it was ridiculous. I don't think he's a hero," said the source. One MP also harshly criticized Harper for condoning Grewal's use of secret tapes during a caucus meeting. "He was essentially saying it's OK if we use unethical processes to out the Liberals' unethical behaviour," said an MP. "We're not setting any kind of ethical standards here either. We all look bad on this." Bloc Quebecois Leader Duceppe, who has called on Dosanjh to resign and Murphy to step aside until an investigation is carried out, said Martin should have called in the RCMP immediately upon learning Grewal may have attempted to sell his vote. NDP Leader Jack Layton took the high road, refusing to say whether the Liberals or the Tories are more to blame. "I think everyone in this process has plenty to answer for," he said. Dosanjh accused the Tories of omitting more than two hours of conversation as well as doctoring the tapes, cutting out some material and splicing other parts to make the recordings more incriminating. "I can tell you that the translation is inaccurate in places from my knowledge of my own mother tongue, Punjabi, and from my recollection of the conversation in English and in Punjabi. Any reasonable person could come to a conclusion, a strong conclusion that these tapes may have been altered," he said. Zaccardelli confirmed he received a formal complaint from Duceppe asking him to investigate the matter for a possible breach of the Criminal Code and he intends to "talk to the people involved, and then we'll decide what to do." Shapiro's spokesperson Jonathan Choquette also confirmed the matter is under "consideration" after receiving an official request to investigate from the NDP, but made clear the commissioner was not impressed with the portion of the tapes in which Murphy refers to the ethics commissioner. During one of the taped conversations, Murphy tells Grewal he could get Shapiro to write an "interim report" that would lift the "cloud" over his head about an immigration matter unrelated to the tapes for which the MP is under investigation. "Dr. Shapiro has been clear on that. He would consider it unacceptable to receive such a request because we're an independent body," said Choquette, who added no request of that nature was actually received. © The Leader-Post (Regina) 2005 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:28:44 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: Yeah Right chief Torontos cheif of Polices says "If you are not involved in gangs, drug activity, prostitution or an abusive relationship, the likelihood of being a ... victim is very low." RIGHTO CHIEF..head Keystoner for the Toronto or should I say Dodge City the chance of being a victim is low...tell that to the lady shot in a restaurant now confined to a wheel chair and the dozen or so other victims who had nothing to do with the Toronto Shooting gallery, but caught stray rounds anyway.. The Chief is being disingenuous at best, and diseminating falsehoods at worst....Nothing to worry about my ass! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:29:23 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: Pissot wants to see Parks Canada and CP Rail eliminate Pissot wants bear deaths on train tracks stopped. he wants human caused bear accidents to stop. First off, it was not human caused. It was bear caused. The bear has complete mobility, the train only travels in one of two directions, back or front. In a perfect world, all bears would be stealing picnic baskets, or dipping their paws into jars of honey. fact is, this is reality. bears on tracks, runways, roads, even in their own habittat get killed. when perhaps we are able to teach bears to read no tresapassing signs, or to not walk on tracks, hang around runways etc then we will have no more bear suicides like the one recently when grizzly meets train....like how do we know the bear was not despondent over a lost opportunity to mate and decided the shame of it was sooooo much that he waited on the tracks to be smote by CN. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:37:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Grewal tapes altered: audio expert http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=6217a514-ed81 - -4a98-97c4-e5747d83c340 Grewal tapes altered: audio expert Canadian Press June 2, 2005 OTTAWA -- One of Canada's top audio experts says controversial taped conversations involving Tory MP Gurmant Grewal appear to have been altered. Stevan Pausak analysed a 46-second segment of the recordings and says there's a break in it that indicates a portion may have been cut out. He says the abnormality occurs in a recorded phone chat between Grewal and Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh in which they discuss future job prospects for the MP in exchange for crossing the floor. He says there is a discontinuity in the audio file, what he calls a ``zero-signal gap'' of about 0.3 seconds. The signal goes abruptly to zero in that interval, and afterward it continues. Grewal denies tampering with the tapes, which have been turned over to the RCMP. Pausak is a physicist and forensic scientist who once worked for the Ontario government and now testifies in court trials. © Canadian Press 2005 ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #101 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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