From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #203 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, July 8 2005 Volume 08 : Number 203 In this issue: seized a sawed-off .12-gauge shotgun and a sawed-off .308 rifle. Shots exchanged in Applewood Rifle pointed, man charged Ottawa office bylaws Norinco 305 Gun owner fined for not registering shot gun Re: wild west Re: wild west Stange sense of values? Re: wild west Allan Rock was so sincere - but what a target Re: One of Karla's conditions same for law-abiding gun owner check the registryt Re: wild west Re: wild west Re: wild west Re: wild west Re: check the registryt Activisim and Ottawa lobby Police urge safer gun storage after Nunavut man charged in It's time to retreat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:00:02 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: seized a sawed-off .12-gauge shotgun and a sawed-off .308 rifle. PUBLICATION: The Calgary Sun DATE: 2005.07.08 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 10 ILLUSTRATION: photo by JIM WELLS, Calgary Sun BONUS HAUL ... Staff Sgt. Shaun Gissing holds a sawed-off shotgun seized in a bust. In the background are other weapons and crack cocaine grabbed during arrests. BYLINE: MIKE D'AMOUR, CALGARY SUN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- COPS BUST HOODLUMS IN BEATINGS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Several people have been arrested, facing hundreds of charges for the alleged drug-motivated kidnapping and torture of six crack addicts -- and police say the number of victims could reach into the dozens. District 4 Staff Sgt. Shaun Gissing said the torture ranged from spontaneous assaults to beatings that lasted more than an hour. "In some cases, the people doing the beatings would take a break, have a drink or whatever, and then continue the assaults," he said. "The injuries ranged from bruises all the way to broken bones." The beatings were for uncollected drug debts by Calgary crackheads. "Some of the most severe beatings were over a $35 debt," Gissing said, adding in many cases, females lured victims into waiting vehicles. "The beatings would then happen in various parts of town," he said. Police hope other victims will come forward. "We have six people now who were beaten on numerous occasions, but the number of victims out there could be double or triple that number, we're just not sure," Gissing said. When cops went to arrest the suspects they believed to be responsible for the assaults and kidnappings, they got a bonus. "We seized about a quarter-pound of cocaine, cash and several weapons," Gissing said. Among the realistic looking pellet guns, knives and various clubs, police also seized a sawed-off .12-gauge shotgun and a sawed-off .308 rifle. Nine adults and a teen face a total of more than 250 charges, including those related to drugs, weapons and extortion. Three more suspects are sought. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:00:14 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Shots exchanged in Applewood PUBLICATION: Calgary Herald DATE: 2005.07.08 EDITION: Final SECTION: City & Region PAGE: B5 SOURCE: Calgary Herald - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Shots exchanged in Applewood - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Stray bullets hit at least one house and a fence in a suburban neighbourhood in the city's southeast Wednesday night. There were no reported injuries, and the combatants drove away from the scene before police arrived. Several residents near the intersection of Applewood Drive and Appleglen Park S.E. called police after hearing gunshots at about 10 p.m. "It sounds like two vehicles were parked and (the occupants) were talking to each other when a third one pulled up," Insp. Paul Manuel said. Someone started shooting, and police believe a member of the other group returned fire. Investigators found one bullet lodged in a home south of the intersection and another slug in a fence on the north side. There were also two shell casings on the road. In all, it looked like approximately four or five shots were fired, Manuel said. "It's always a concern," he said. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:00:27 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Rifle pointed, man charged http://www.mykawartha.com/ka/news/peterborough/story/2899839p-3359354c.html Rifle pointed, man charged Jul 8, 2005 An arrest was made last Sunday after Ford Street residents spotted a man pointing a rifle up and down the street. City police say the man was standing in front of his house and didn't appear to be pointing the weapon at anything in particular. There is no indication the weapon was loaded. An investigation led to the seizure of a small number of guns registered to the suspect. Robert Scott Payne, 45, of Ford Street is charged with careless use of a firearm. He appeared in court Wednesday. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:28:58 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: Ottawa office bylaws It appears that this digest cannot handle the large file that encompasses the bylaws that I have drafted. Any suggestions on how to get this "out there" [Moderator's Note: I already recommended putting it up on a website, and posting a link to it. BNM] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:30:01 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: Norinco 305 The 305 has not been a military rifle for almost 40 years. Moreover, hunters have always used old military styles for hunting, such as the legendary Lee Enfield and Winchester lever action before that. The 305 is an inexpensive rifle well-suited to hunting and is hardly an "assault rifle." THE NORINCO 305 has never been a military rifle. it is a civilan copy of the Us made M-14. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:35:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Gun owner fined for not registering shot gun http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/nn/news/story/2899524p-3359238c.html Gun owner fined for not registering shot gun From Northumberland News Jul 7, 2005 COBOURG - Issues concerning gun storage and registration were discussed in two cases in Cobourg Provincial court last Monday, June 27. In the first instance, Crown attorney Brad Kelneck argued in favour of a fine for the accused, who pleaded guilty to two counts of unsafe storage of firearm. In this case, ammunition was found in the vicinity of the weapons. "These are inherently dangerous items that should be kept in a secure position," said Mr. Kelneck, who later added a fine was a good way to get across to the public that some risks are simply too great to accept. Defense counsel Lou Strezos said his client had immediately taken responsibility for owning the firearms, and that the trigger locks had been lost during a hunting expedition. Mr. Strezos argued his client would lose employment over a conviction, and asked Justice Rhys Morgan to consider community service and a discharge. Justice Morgan will give his decision about Peter Davey, 47, of Cobourg, on Aug. 8, 2005. Mr. Davey is the father of Troy Davey who faces a first-degree murder charge in the death of Cobourg police officer Chris Garrett. In the second case, the accused pleaded guilty to failing to register three firearms, one of which was subsequently used in a murder suicide. Mr. Kelneck said the accused was approached on Jan. 30 of this year by a long-time friend from Trent Hills to borrow a 12 gauge shot gun, which he later turned on his wife, and then himself. The accused was questioned by the police in relation to the incidents a few days later, and admitted he had only registered one of his four shot guns. He told police he had borrowed the shot gun from his friend and returned it on the day in question, because the friend said a part of it needed to be re-glued. "He had not the slightest indication that anything was amiss," said defense counsel Brad Halls, who said his client is a keen hunter and had accepted responsibility for the un-registered weapons. Mr. Halls asked Justice Morgan to temper the Crown's request for a two-year firearms' prohibition and a substantial fine. "This is wrong and dangerous," countered Mr. Kelneck. "A lot of people think gun registration is not important." John Kelly, 41, of Roseneath, was fined a total of $1,620, including provincial surcharges, and given six months to pay. Justice Morgan also prohibited him from possessing firearms for two years. The weapons were forfeited, but may be surrendered within 60 days to someone with a proper licence who has the permission of the accused. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:43:13 -0600 (CST) From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: wild west Exactly how many shootings were there in the Wild West!?? Documented rather than hollywoodized! Do not really believe the London blasts were with kitchen made explosives. Probably came in a diplomatic pouch! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:51:47 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: wild west Go to search and find the "Anarchists Cookbook" ou will find plenty of information there.I once saw? in the hands of high school students illustrations and directions on how to make many differnet kinds of explosive devices and incendiarys ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:52:33 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Stange sense of values? Snake coiled around neck of sleeping infant boy London Free Press; 2005-07-08 Two horrified St. Thomas parents awoke early Wednesday to find a snake wrapped around their infant son's neck. The month-old baby boy was asleep in bed with his parents in their Holland Avenue apartment when they awoke about 7 a.m. and saw the half-metre long California King snake around the baby's neck, St. Thomas police said yesterday. The infant had a small bite on his neck left by the non-venomous, black and white snake. He was taken to St. Thomas Elgin General Hospital, where he was treated. His parents called police, who discovered the snake had escaped from a neighbour's apartment. Animal control officials are investigating, police said. In the wild, California King snakes often eat other snakes, including venomous ones. They kill their prey by looping around their victim and squeezing. Although they aren't poisonous, the snakes can be aggressive if provoked. (Apparently the snake was less than 'co-operative' when the terrified parents removed it from the infant. It was shown on the TV news. It has since been returned to the neighbour from whom it had escaped. Huhhh?). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:54:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: wild west - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Farion Subject: Re: wild west > Exactly how many shootings were there in the Wild West!?? > Documented rather than hollywoodized! The antis always use the "Wild West" anaolgy in their "arguments" against concealed carry laws. I was using it against them here, pointing out that the "Wild West" is already here, even with their "strict" gun control laws. Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario - -- "It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - - From The Declaration of Arbroath, 1320. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:59:24 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Allan Rock was so sincere - but what a target Recent tragedies illustrate gun registry's failures St. Thomas Times-Journal Thursday July 07, 2005 Editor: Can London MPs Sue Barnes, Joe Fontana and Pat O'Brien and their caucus colleagues finally comprehend this? A few months ago, four Mounties on the Prairies -- now staid London, where four people were killed and two police officers shot. It shows the federal Liberal's Billion dollar Firearms Act (which was guaranteed to only cost a net of $2 Million) failed again. How could such a heinous act costing four lives occur. I suspect the perpetrator was not licensed and his shotgun was not registered or police would not have barged into a sure death trap. (The owner wasn't at his home address where any such records would apply anyway). In 1995, Allan Rock promised that even those who did not become licensed and register their guns would be identified. In a blaze of convoluted logic Rock even argued, "Criminals will not register and by that act will identify themselves . the criminals will be identified by exception." I ask, "Will they all be wearing orange construction garb emblazoned with fluorescent yellow X's?" Liberal MP Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex) has a Private Members Bill on the House of Commons Order Paper. M-205 states, "That, in the opinion of the House, the government should abandon immediately the registry of non-restricted firearms and divert any resources freed thereby to programs that address the root causes of violent domestic crime." Will Barnes, Fontana and O'Brien be in the House to support Ur? Lee Jasper Aylmer See: Letters at www.stthomastimesjournal.com Addendum: It has been disclosed that the suicide weapon was a sawed-off, double barreled shotgun, a prohibited firearm under the Firearms Act. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:03:34 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: One of Karla's conditions same for law-abiding gun owner > EDITOR: Nobody should pity Karla. I dont think its a matter of pity for her ? as a matter of fact I beleive it was she who actually killed those girls and not Bernardo. This is one reason that the "authorities" wont let Bernardo speak about his wife ..If what he would say has a semblance of truth to it ? it would make the St. Catherine's police chief who made the deal with Karla an accomplice in murder. Another thought or two / ? If she is under all these requirements after serving her time whats to stop the "authorities" from doing the same to any members of the RFC under the ANT-TERRORISM ACT ? Secondly theres many more evil persons on the street that DONT have any conditions attached to their releases ? why pick on Teale ?Isnt the law suposed to be the same for all? Ya in a perfect world it is. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:56:38 -0600 (CST) From: "ross" Subject: check the registryt Guns stolen from Harwich home - - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Three guns are among the items stolen from a home on River Line in the Harwich area Wednesday. Chatham-Kent police said thieves broke into the home sometime between 9 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. Guns, jewelry and electronics worth $5,000 are missing from the home. Anyone with information about this crime is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS. A QUICK CHECK of the gun registry will show that the thieves have re-registered these guns and the culture of safety will still be intact ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:40:24 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: wild west I actually saw Bruces "Wild West " letter printed in that bastion of Lieberal excess ? the Hamilton Spectator , todayJuly8th/05 ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:46:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: wild west - ----- Original Message ----- From: mred Subject: Re: wild west > I actually saw Bruces "Wild West " letter printed in that bastion of > Lieberal excess ? the Hamilton Spectator , todayJuly8th/05 > ed/ontario You actually subscribe to that piece of garbage newspaper? Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario - -- "It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." - - From The Declaration of Arbroath, 1320. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:54:37 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: wild west - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mred > >> I actually saw Bruces "Wild West " letter printed in that bastion of >> Lieberal excess ? the Hamilton Spectator , todayJuly8th/05 >> ed/ontario > > You actually subscribe to that piece of garbage newspaper? No, I never said that!!!!!!! but I was thinking perhaps I should ? My wife bought it for my daughter .I have told her repeatedly NOT TO BUY IT ANYMORE .MIGHT AS WELL TALK TO THE DA*N WALL/ HOWEVER ON SERIUOS SOBER SECOND THOUGHT IT MAY BE WELL TO KEEP MY ENEMIES CLOSE TO ME SO THAT I KNOW WHAT THEYRE UP TO ? I apologize for the caps ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:58:39 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: wild west - ----- Original Message ----- From: mred > No, I never said that!!!!!!! but I was thinking perhaps I should ? My wife > bought it for my daughter .I have told her repeatedly NOT TO BUY IT ANYMORE > .MIGHT AS WELL TALK TO THE DA*N WALL/ > HOWEVER ON SERIUOS SOBER SECOND THOUGHT IT MAY BE WELL TO KEEP MY ENEMIES > CLOSE TO ME SO THAT I KNOW WHAT THEYRE UP TO ? I feel your pain. It is so frigging biased I refuse to read it. The Dundas Star-News and even View Magazine are better than the Expectorator... Yours in Liberty, Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:09:31 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: check the registryt You should send this to all the Commie red liberal papers...ed/ontario - ----- Original Message ----- From: "ross" To: Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: check the registryt > Guns stolen from Harwich home > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- > > Three guns are among the items stolen from a home on River Line in the > Harwich area Wednesday. > > Chatham-Kent police said thieves broke into the home sometime between 9 > a.m. > and 1:30 p.m. > > Guns, jewelry and electronics worth $5,000 are missing from the home. > Anyone > with information about this crime is asked to call Crime Stoppers at > 1-800-222-TIPS. > > > A QUICK CHECK of the gun registry will show that the thieves have > re-registered these guns and the culture of safety will still be intact ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:10:02 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Activisim and Ottawa lobby Joe asked: > How can we get from a JMCK poll which reads 76% of the Canadian population > has had their fill of the registry, to an 86% or 90% or more JMCK poll > against the registry? Firstly, wasn't the JMCK poll a tad localized and slanted? Secondly, do poll results really matter? I would suggest that the RFC has done a huge job of 'educating' the public about the ineptitude of the FA. But the wrong-headed FA issue applies to so much legislation passed by gov't's of all stripes that most voters simply yawn - unless it's their personal ox that's being gored. I say concentrate energies on the surviving court actions and hope the gov't co-operates by playing the litigation game - so at least we get a reading on the strength of some of our fundamental Charter arguments. Rick has suggested a Plan B. But of course, I outlined what a Plan B could have included, going back ten years - and little was done (or ever reported, save what I outlined) about attempting to organize supportive partners. And like I have also said, "Who's John Q going to believe. Some 'gun rights activist' or the Chief's of Police?" So, certainly entertain a Plan B. I say Plan 'B' must include getting 'regime change' in Ottawa. (I acknowledge election of the CPC would not resolve all the legislative issues of the FA - for everyone in the RFC). My suggestion for them is not optimistic. Ross said: > last week it was clearly pointed out why we did not get a firearms office > off the ground. > WILL the RFC suport another kick at the cat to get an Ottawa Office up and > running, or are we going to, back bite and snipe and not co-operate until > the government takes our firearms and property away. > So here we have it RFC. do we try again, or not Is everyone forgetting that we have had one of the most effective lobbies in Ottawa since 1994-95? I speak of the 'terrible eight' Liberals who voted against C-68 on 1st., 2nd. and 3rd reading. (The 9th Liberal supporter was actually far too ill to attend the House for 3rd reading). The eight who largely cast their political futures adrift by Nay votes on 3rd. reading have been reduced to two loyal supporters in gov't - Steckle and Ur). They have lobbied and voted against every succeeding similarly misguided firearm's legislative initiative over the past ten years. (Ur will not stand for re-election). Their activism has been taxpayer funded. We also have an existing lobby in the gun org's and provincial hunt groups across Canada. So are we talking about another lobby group for a small knot of disaffected gun owners? Where's the cash going to come from? The RFC has benefited from, while partisan, I submit the most effective one - two punch, ever, in Parliament. While we complain about the tax dollars spirited off to Cukier and the CGC we don't account for our taxpayer supported counter-lobby. Thankfully, taxpayers across the land also seem oblivious to this fact. We lament about gaining access to the Halls of Power. Garry and Dennis are already IN. You can donate to Garry's cause and your donation becomes largely tax deductible. Oh the beauty of a democracy, where all sides get to have a say. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 17:57:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Police urge safer gun storage after Nunavut man charged in accidental death Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca http://north.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=gun-62005charges080 Police urge safer gun storage after Nunavut man charged in accidental death Last updated Jul 8 2005 07:43 AM MDT CBC News Police in Rankin Inlet have charged a man with the accidental death of a seven-year old boy last month. Norman Ford faces charges related to the unsafe storage of a firearm. The boy was shot while he and a friend were playing with a gun at a cabin near the central Nunavut community. Corporal Mike Lockin says the gun belonged to the owner of the cabin. He says police believe the owner didn't take adequate steps to ensure the gun was stored properly. He says police are asking all gun owners to prevent more gun-related tragedies. "What we're asking is that people make sure that their guns are locked up, safely stored," says Lockin. "If they have any guns that maybe they no longer use they can always give us a call, and we can get rid of them for them." Ford will appear in court on August 15. If convicted, he could face time in jail, a fine, or both. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 21:22:47 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: It's time to retreat from the Letters to the editor. It's time to retreat Friday, July 08, 2005 Prime Minister Tony Blair says England will not back down to terrorism. Just as U.S. President George W. Bush did after 9/11. People died in New York, people died in London. People are dying each and every day in Iraq and Afghanistan. Backing down? What does this mean? We're not talking about the economy, global warming or even world hunger. We are talking about death. The end of the world for all those people yesterday morning in London. The United States and its allies must get out of Iraq and Afghanistan today. Bush says the terrorists won't win. Well, guess what - they are. Until we find a "cure," we must put life first. L'chaim. Ruth Ilyse Westmount ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #203 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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