From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #458 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, October 1 2005 Volume 08 : Number 458 In this issue: BRITAIN: Animal rights group targets game shoots All Canadians have right to silence against the state, Supreme [LETTER] (If our governments truly cared about our health, Const John Burke Re: We need this Chief electoral officer 'prepared' to break law Fake gun registry ran with Ottawa's knowledge Re: OFFICER FAVOURS REGISTRY Dingwall ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:20:27 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: BRITAIN: Animal rights group targets game shoots PUBLICATION: The Daily Telegraph DATE: 2005.10.01 PAGE: 01 SECTION: News BYLINE: Charles Clover, Environment Editor WORD COUNT: 417 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Animal rights group targets game shoots - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- THE League Against Cruel Sports launched a campaign against shooting yesterday, attacking the intensive rearing of game birds and snaring which make commercial shoots possible. In a DVD to be sent to MPs to coincide with the start of the shooting season today, the league attacks what it claims is the "factory farming'' of about 30 million game birds a year and the use of snares to trap foxes. The undercover footage focuses on the use of battery cages, which the industry calls "raised laying units'', in which pheasants are kept for up to three years. The main shooting organisation, the British Association of Shooting and Conservation, is opposed to the practice. John Cooper, the league chairman, who narrates the film, said the Government had shown its commitment to animal welfare by banning hunting. "Now it is time to deal with animal cruelty in the shooting industry,'' he said. Shooting groups regard the film as an attempt by the league to maximise donations after the ban on hunting and to open up a new front against shooting before this autumn's Animal Welfare Bill. The Bill will contain a "duty of care'' to look after all animals. This is expected to be followed within two years by codes of practice, which will effectively have the force of law. Some shooting bodies are concerned that the Bill and the codes could be used to tighten the law on commercial shooting to the extent that it becomes impossible, without actually banning the sport, as has happened in Holland. The league's campaign came as the Hunt Saboteurs Association said it would target more shoots over the next few years. Jim Knight, the rural affairs minister, reaffirmed the Government's manifesto promise to protect shooting and angling yesterday on BBC Radio 4's Today programme. But he conceded that rules on game rearing might change. "The last rural manifesto in the last general election said that we will work with the relevant bodies to ensure that country sports are protected while ensuring high standards of environmental protection, animal welfare and safety,'' he said. "I make a very clear difference in my own mind between rearing animals, birds for food and sport that is just cruel. I don't consider the sport of shooting to be cruel.'' Mr Knight confirmed at the Labour Party conference this week that he was in favour of "responsible snaring''. Charles Nodder, of the National Game Farmers Association, said: "The Government has made clear that it wants to leave detail out of the Bill and if it is sabotaged by backbenchers it will be shelved.'' Not everyone is convinced, however. Tim Bonner, of the Countryside Alliance, said: "The league is mounting a progressive attack on all country sports.'' cclover@telegraph.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:20:59 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: All Canadians have right to silence against the state, Supreme Court Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Citizen DATE: 2005.10.01 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: A3 BYLINE: Cristin Schmitz SOURCE: The Ottawa Citizen WORD COUNT: 446 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- All Canadians have right to silence against the state, Supreme Court judges rule: New trial for convicted triple axe-murderer hinges on high court's clarification - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- The right to silence entitles Canadians to refuse to answer police questions without it being used against them by the prosecution, the Supreme Court has ruled in granting a new trial for a convicted triple axe-murderer. The top court affirmed 9-0 yesterday a British Columbia Court of Appeal decision last year that ordered a new trial for Thomas Turcotte. The 47-year-old was sentenced to life in prison in 2001 after a jury convicted him of three counts of second-degree murder. The high court clarified for the first time that people who are neither arrested nor detained do not have to answer police questions and their refusal to do so can't be held against them in a subsequent criminal trial. Mr. Turcotte walked into the Vanderhoof, B.C., RCMP detachment in May 2000 and repeatedly suggested that police go to nearby Erhorn Ranch where he lived and did odd jobs for the owner Robert Erhorn. Mr. Turcotte refused to explain his demands, but investigators later found the bodies of ranch hands Terry Price, 50, and Kim Martindale, 29. Aale Heikkila, a 70-year-old trapper and wildlife photographer was comatose and died three weeks later. All three were killed by blows to the head with an axe. Mr. Turcotte testified he was innocent. The right to silence has traditionally protected people who are under arrest or in police detention. But the Supreme Court ruled that the right is much broader and extended to Mr. Turcotte, who was neither arrested nor detained when he approached police. The Crown argued the right to silence should be confined to people in detention or under arrest. Justice Rosalie Abella explained that "everyone has the right to be silent in the face of police questioning" in the absence of specific laws to the contrary. "It would be an illusory right if the decision not to speak to the police could be used by the Crown as evidence of guilt," she ruled. She held that a person's "right to silence against the state" exists at all times, whether the person is in police custody, and even if the person initiates the contact with police. Moreover, even if someone opts to answer some, but not all, police questions, their silence cannot be used as evidence of guilt by the prosecution, said the court. "It's a decision of enormous significance," said Turcotte's Vancouver lawyer Gregory DelBigio. "The court has made clear that people have the right to remain silent whether or not they are in custody." He said Mr. Turcotte remains in custody in the B.C. lower mainland, but is now eligible for a bail review. The Crown confirmed it will proceed with a new trial. "I would anticipate it at this time," said Oleh Kuzma, regional Crown counsel in Prince George. B.C. The prosecution's case against Mr. Turcotte was built solely on circumstantial evidence, but the Crown told the jury that his unusual behaviour and silence when he came to the police detachment should be viewed as evidence of a "guilty mind." Mr. Turcotte testified that he was too shocked and panicked after he came upon the blood-soaked murder scene to behave rationally. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:21:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: [LETTER] (If our governments truly cared about our health, http://www.ottawasun.com/Comment/Letters/2005/10/01/1243502.html RE "Smoking gun for suits," (Sept. 30): Oh, how I miss the days of individual responsibility, when Canadians didn't pathetically expect the nanny state to save them from themselves. I don't happen to smoke, but the fashionable jihad against smoking by the politically correct establishment makes me want to start. If a Canadian citizen chooses to do something unhealthy to himself, that shouldn't be anyone else's business. With victory against Big Tobacco imminent, the legions of liberal lawyers are already licking their chops for the next battle in the war against freedom of choice: Junk food! Unfortunately, our hysterical commitment to the sacred cow of socialist health care has joined us together in bondage. What's unhealthy for one Canadian physically is now unhealthy for all Canadians financially. This rationale is used as justification for the state to strip away more and more of our individual rights. National health care is a monumentally bad idea that has been shielded from debate by Liberals and other socialists by draping it in the flag and calling anyone who questions it "un-Canadian." I wish Canadians would tell the nanny state to butt out! Shaun Palmer Ottawa (If our governments truly cared about our health, cigarettes would have been banned years ago) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 15:12:21 -0600 (CST) From: Len Miller Subject: Const John Burke Ross. Re Cdn Firearms digest # 441 "in their skeptical sights"? Ross, Unregistered cars are not seized. You may own as many as you can store on your property. Should you fail to licence your licensed and registered car, . . park it upon the streets of Vancouver, you will be placed on IGNORE. Damaged, unlicenced, and abandoned cars remain for weeks, attracting little attention. Now, even though the 'gun control' legislation has been proven to be a fraud, a lie, the 'gun police' which Const John Burke seems to be a part of, continues the canard that "Registry helps curb the gun problem" "We are training everybody slowly"? Duh! Ross, quite correctly, questions this. Did this reasoning apply in the case of Jack Gentles, Quarry Road, Coquitlam, whose stolen handgun was recovered by CALGARY PD, in a gang bangers car? Not on your 'bippy'. Armed with a search warrant (believed to be) issued by the 'gun police' they KNEW who owned the gun because it was REGISTERED, a tactical team attended at Quarry Road, which frightened Gentles into suiciding. Immediate 'tire burns' leaving the scene by NWEST. . . and Coquitlam Tac Team . . Sealing the warrant and NO inquest. ("We know how he died . . .) Attempts to unseal the warrant .. learn why no one called Gentles and told him of the recovery . . . were stymied. An application, under 'freedom' of information, was pursued, and denied. Though ALL proper procedures were followed, ALL information concerning the reasons for a tactical team approach was rebuffed and the detachment went into silent mode. Latest from 'A' Division contained the phrase: WE ARE EXPERIENCING A DELAY! ! ! ( and if you don't like it . . . complain . . Gee, I thought it was ME who was experiencing the delay.) Seizing guns from known gun owners, gun owners who have committed no crime, does nothing, Const Burke, to make the community safer. Case in Point Constable Burke . . ( I spoke to the farmer) Saanich , 28 July 05 a propane crop cannon was 'booming' out its little heart . . A 'nervous Nellie' called in a 'shots fired' and Saanich PD responded. WHILE THEY WERE ATTENDING THE CALL, THE CROP CANNON WAS STILL BOOMING . . the cops still went into a farmer's house, and seized his WW2 rifles, AND his bows and arrows, charging him with careless storage. (A CYA phony charge) knowing that the farmer HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 'SHOTS FIRED'. The farmer, now in jeopardy, foolishly hired lawyer. He will pay thousands of dollars for the inability of our present day police, to properly investigate. An avoidable consequence . . We don't expect the farmer to have his day in court, it would make Saanich PD look like a bunch of thugs. Is this what the firearms act was intended to do? Most of us don't think so . . . Evidently, there are many Constable Burkes, seconded to the NWEST bully team, to pick on the soft targets. Ross is right. Bring down this phony piece of legislation . . Len Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 15:13:05 -0600 (CST) From: Alfred Hovdestad Subject: Re: We need this >>Well, if the BATF can open an office (or three?) in Canada, why not the >>NRA? >> >>Alfred > > > Pardon me ??? > ed/ontario - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GUN RUNNING U.S. AND CANADIAN OFFICERS ARE CO-OPERATING IN THE EFFORT TO STEM GUNS CROSSING THE BORDER. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The illegal gun trade between Canada and the U.S. has caught the attention of the U.S. administration. The American government is operating Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms offices in Ottawa, Toronto and Vancouver and there may be further expansion on the horizon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 15:42:53 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Jordan Subject: Chief electoral officer 'prepared' to break law The new paradigm for "Neo-McCarthyism" in Kanuckistan? "Remember- If it saves just one life!" [It's worth violating everybody's rights, except politicians of course!] To nauseated to make anymore comments. L-DRGJ Chief electoral officer 'prepared' to break law Kingsley would share data on voters in interest of security Ref: http://www.canada.com/saskatoon/starphoenix/news/national/story.html?id=206 65f02-5758-42b7-9dbe-5f4c59303e95 [Subscriber Content only] Tim Naumetz For CanWest News Service September 30, 2005 CREDIT: Canadian Press Chief electoral officer Jean-Pierre Kingsley says breaking the privacy law might help public safety OTTAWA -- Chief electoral officer Jean-Pierre Kingsley says he is prepared to "break the law" and release information about millions of Canadians on the permanent voter list to Canada's spy service and other agencies even though Elections Canada policy jealously guards its database. Kingsley made the statement Thursday after he asked Parliament to grant him sweeping new powers, including authority to release information from the voter registry to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and other authorities in the interest of national security or public safety. "I can understand why that may raise some alarms, but I also understand that CSIS is a legal entity in this country," Kingsley explained to a news conference. "I also understand that they have a job to do to protect us and if they are the ones asking me for something and I find it reasonable I'll go along with it, if the statute is changed. "What I don't like is facing the fact that right now if anybody comes to see me and asks me for information where I could save lives, potentially, I can't give it. I would have to break the law. It might even be possible that I would break the law if those were the circumstances, if it could save lives." Asked how the information could be used in the interest of national security, Kingsley said authorities might one day have to evacuate a district in Ottawa and they could use the voter list information to target residents. "With the register of electors, the authorities could know where the electors who reside in particular segments of the city, and it occurred to me that I had no authority to provide them with that information," Kingsley told reporters after tabling a report in the Commons calling for Elections Act changes. He would have to report to Parliament any release of records from the registry and explain why he disclosed the information. The voter registry currently contains the name, address, gender and date of birth for 22.5 million electors. Landed immigrants who are not citizens cannot vote and are not on the registry. Kingsley also asked Parliament for the authority to release the year of birth of voters to Elections Canada polling station workers to help detect voter fraud. Kingsley said the idea came to him after he visited Manitoba during the Red River flooding in the 1997 election campaign and witnessed flood workers considering the evacuation of Winnipeg areas. Acknowledging the notion of handing protected information about ordinary citizens to CSIS could alarm citizens, he insisted repeatedly he was proposing the idea only in the interest of public safety and did not intend to establish a "net" beyond the information sources on Canadians that already exist. The national register of electors was introduced for the 2000 federal election. Elections Canada's own website declares that the protection of information on the registry is paramount. "Information in the National Register of Electors can be used only for electoral purposes," the agency says. "Improper use of the information is an offence." The site notes information about voters is protected by the Canada Elections Act as well as the federal Privacy Act. © The StarPhoenix (Saskatoon) 2005 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:18:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Fake gun registry ran with Ottawa's knowledge http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051001.wfakegun1001/BN Story/National/ Fake gun registry ran with Ottawa's knowledge By NICK PETTER Saturday, October 1, 2005 Posted at 12:44 PM EDT Canadian Press Ottawa - A website that generated fake Canadian gun registrations continued to operate for more than a year after federal officials tried to shut it down. A file from the website, registered in the United States, allowed visitors to fill in and print reproductions of Canadian firearms registration certificates. Documents obtained through the Access to Information Act show that the government agency responsible for gun control knew about the website early last year. Though real certificates are printed on a special watermark paper, the web versions "have the look of official documents," David Pimm of the Canadian Firearms Centre said in an internal e-mail. The centre learned of the Internet site April 15 last year, and immediately faxed a letter to the California-based company that hosts the web page. A lawyer for the centre warned that by hosting the site, Homestead Technologies Inc. was "counselling as well as aiding and abetting a criminal offence." "Given the severity of the conduct, we would appreciate the site being taken down immediately," the letter said. But Homestead's vice-president of marketing, Manvinder Saraon, said in an interview that the company has no record of that fax, and first learned of the problem when contacted recently by a reporter. The company has since shut the site down. "There was no follow-up from the firearms centre, as far as we know," Mr. Saraon said. A spokeswoman for the centre, Irene Arseneau, said the agency believed the site had been taken down before Mr. Saraon was alerted by the media to the problem. Details on the Homestead site suggested it was created partly to poke fun at the firearms centre. Under gun type, the drop-down menu included "nail gun," "hair dryer," and "pointy stick." The form also had a note that it was "Not a CFC (Canadian Firearms Centre) Document" and "Education purpose only." The firearms centre regulates the possession, transport, use and storage of firearms. Since 2003, every gun in Canada requires a registration certificate, and about 5.5 million have been issued. In 2001, anticipating a mass registration before the 2003 deadline, the centre decided to switch from plastic registration cards to paper certificates, which are cheaper to print and easier to mail. There were concerns, however, that they would also be easier to counterfeit. The first look-a-like - found on a different website - appeared in 2003. A link to it was posted on the Canadian Firearms Digest, an Internet discussion forum for gun enthusiasts. Just over a week later, the centre faxed a letter - the same one that would be sent to Homestead six months later - to Yahoo Inc., the company in California hosting the website. The page was taken down soon after. Despite evidence that counterfeit versions of their paper certificates were available on the Internet, the centre decided not to re-introduce plastic registration cards. "They (plastic cards) would be harder to forge but we will have to see if the increased cost is warranted by the risks," reads an internal e-mail sent in October 2003 by Bill Baker, who heads the firearms centre. Plastic cards are six times more expensive than paper certificates to process and mail, according to the centre's internal estimates. As much $5-million may have been saved by the switch to paper. The centre has long been under pressure to cut costs. Originally slated to cost only $2-million, the registry has spent over $1-billion according to Auditor General Sheila Fraser. Mark Horstead, a retired Canadian Forces pilot living in Newmarket, Ont., was one of the first to warn the centre about the Homestead website. An opponent of the gun registry, Mr. Horstead said he drew attention to the problem because not only was a blank certificate available to print, but the paper on which the real certificates appear was also available. "They were on a sort of ivory-coloured paper with two-toned lines. You can find almost exactly the same paper in any stationery store, except that the lines go in the opposite direction. Otherwise, it matches the firearms certificate perfectly." Greg Muller, a communications officer for the centre, disagreed. He said the paper stock for the certificates is unique and includes a Government of Canada logo. "The certificates themselves are produced on a special watermark paper that makes fraud difficult if not impossible," he said. "And anybody who is (forging certificates), obviously, would be subject to some kind of criminal charge for duplicating a federal government document." The website had been "fairly inactive," Mr. Saraon said before it was shut down. "It's not like there's a ton of people going on it or anything like that." Asked whether any bogus certificates had turned up, Mr. Arseneau said "not to my knowledge." "But that doesn't mean it could not have happened, just that the (police) officers wouldn't necessarily call us." The RCMP did not respond to a request for comment on whether they had found any fakes. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:23:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: OFFICER FAVOURS REGISTRY - ----- Original Message ----- > He doesn't say that pace will be stepped up even though Ottawa has just > begun supplying police with lists of unregistered firearms that are also > sent to the same gun owners. Does anyone know what this means? How can Ottawa send out notices about unregistered firearms if they're unregistered? How would they know who owns them? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:50:26 -0600 (CST) From: Len Miller Subject: Dingwall To All, Unless I am badly mistaken, the resignation by Mr. Dingwall, in law, constitutes a breach of contract, in a sense, failing to carry out his contract. His hand was caught in the cookie jar, folks . . he should be charged . . . In civil law, this negates any condition which might apply to the contract. We have learned, through Brian Palliser, that there WAS NO CONDITION, should Dingwall resign . . . . he would qualify for a severance package . . . Severance, historically, only applies when a person is job terminated, against HIS will . . . So, children, it appears that the ignoring of a law, any law, whether criminal or civil seems to be the normal state, business as usual, in the Liberal continuum . . But , of course, you are getting this through Liberal media. Liberals may be criminals, liars, thieves, but fail to meet the descriptor: SCARY ! Len Miller See 2307 85 Street Edmonton Alberta T6K 3H1 Saturday, October 01, 2005 Attn Hon P Martin Prime Minister. Subject: Mr. Dingwall & Severance package Sir, We must oppose in the strongest of terms any “Severance Package” being contemplated for this ex minister. Consider he resigned of his own free will the people of Canada have no obligation to pay him compensation for anything at all he has his indexed parliamentary pension to live on. Compare his state financially with that of Canada’s pensioners on OAS who just received the most generous adjustment of 0.6%. Now Sir do you feel that you should approve a “Severance package” for this ex minister who misused public money to further his own life style. As taxpaying voters we await with interest your decision on this matter. Sincerely, Mr. Mrs. A W Parsons. Cc Hon S Harper Hon J Layton Hon G Duceppe Hon D Kilgour Hon A McLellan ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #458 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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