From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #551 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, October 27 2005 Volume 08 : Number 551 In this issue: HOW DID AN ESCAPED CONVICT GET A HANDGUN? GUNFIRE OVERTURE TO KILLING DAD FEARS GANGS, GUNS SPREADING Letter: Guns an issue, not a tactic Colt 45 seized from car of 25-year-old Re: A gun culture lies behind high rates of gun killings Re: TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN Re: Martin to press Rice to help stop U.S gun smuggling Re: Joe's letter to NP, V8 #547 Re: EDITOR (Just what the world needs -- more litigation) Re: A gun culture lies behind high rates of gun killings Re: TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN Re: Ottawa lobs gun suits to provinces: Re: EDITOR (It's been a boondoggle.) Re: Number of smuggled guns cited by Martin is unsubstantiated quote in Toronto Sun Re: Number of smuggled guns cited by Martin is unsubstantiated ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:34:07 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: HOW DID AN ESCAPED CONVICT GET A HANDGUN? PUBLICATION: Cape Breton Post DATE: 2005.10.27 SECTION: Cape Breton PAGE: A3 BYLINE: steve macinnis DATELINE: sydney ILLUSTRATION: Sheldon Vaughan Leroy of Sydney Mines and Isle Madame, whoescaped from the Cape Breton Correctional Centre Sunday, was recaptured Wednesday. WORD COUNT: 379 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Police recapture last of two escapees from correctional centre - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The offender population inside the Cape Breton Correctional Centre was all present and accounted for Wednesday as the last of two escapees was returned to custody. Sheldon Vaughan Leroy, 36, of Sydney Mines and Isle Madame, was captured shortly before 1 p.m. Wednesday on Peppett Street in North Sydney. Leroy and George Thomas McIsaac, 43, of Glace Bay, made a dash for freedom Sunday morning by wiggling their way under a security fence that surrounded the maximum security wing's recreation yard. McIsaac was recaptured Tuesday as he walked down a residential street in New Waterford. Both men are now being housed in the centre's isolation unit for an indefinite period. Their privileges are severely restricted and they are not permitted to have contact with each other. "There is no question that public assistance aided police in capturing both accused," said Const. Bill Turner of the Cape Breton Regional Police. Turner said tips from the public led police to place a few homes under surveillance which resulted in police observing a man fitting Leroy's description getting into a vehicle. When the vehicle stopped, Leroy bolted and was chased by members of the street crime and canine unit. After a short foot chase, Leroy was stopped in his tracks by one of the dogs who left teeth imprints in the man's neck and left ankle. Leroy was taken to hospital where he was treated and released and then taken before a judge. He is expected back in provincial court today to receive a trial date on charges he was facing prior to his escape. Leroy was originally to make that court appearance earlier this week. In addition to some 13 outstanding charges, Leroy and McIsaac are also charged with escaping custody. Meanwhile, the investigation into the escape is continuing by regional police and members of the provincial Justice Department's correctional services division. The correctional centre has a maximum capacity for 96 offenders and the current population registers 74. Leroy is facing a host of charges, unrelated to the escape, including assault causing bodily harm; assault with a weapon, a screwdriver; possession of a dangerous weapon, a handgun; five counts of uttering threats; a single count of unlawful entry; pointing a firearm; carrying a concealed weapon; and committing an assault while threatening to use a weapon, a handgun. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:34:36 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: GUNFIRE OVERTURE TO KILLING PUBLICATION: The Winnipeg Sun DATE: 2005.10.27 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 4 ILLUSTRATION: photo of PHIL HAIART BYLINE: DEAN PRITCHARD, COURT REPORTER WORD COUNT: 392 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GUNFIRE OVERTURE TO KILLING ERUPTED HOURS BEFORE DEATH - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A gang turf war over the city's lucrative crack trade had been erupting in gunfire for hours before it claimed the life of innocent bystander Phil Haiart, newly available court documents reveal. Police believe Haiart, 17, was killed Oct. 10 after getting caught in the crossfire of two warring street gangs, the Mad Cowz and splinter gang the African Mafia. According to a police affidavit used to secure a search warrant for a suspected McGee Street crack house, gang members questioned in the shooting say they were lured to a shootout near the same house just hours before Haiart was killed. A 14-year-old member of the Mad Cowz told police a 17-year-old member of the African Mafia called his cellphone Oct. 9, saying he wanted to meet "before things get out of hand." Armed himself Wary he was being "set up," the youth armed himself with a sawed-off .22-calibre rifle. The youth and three other gang members arrived at the McGee Street house at 8:30 p.m. to find nobody home. The youth called the African Mafia member on his cellphone and was told he would be right there. Minutes later a car pulled into at a nearby video store parking lot. Three men got out of the car, one of them armed with a "western-style handgun." The man fired two rounds at the Mad Cowz members, who ducked for cover and returned fire. The Mad Cowz members escaped, and no one was injured. A little more than two hours later, gunfire would be heard again, this time with fatal consequences. Shot in arm Abass Jalloh, 25, was walking with Haiart when the gun battle erupted. He suffered a single gunshot wound to his right arm. In a police affidavit, Jalloh said he had just finished work at Polo Park Shopping Centre when he took a bus to Portage Place at about 10:40 p.m. Jalloh walked to a 7-Eleven at Sargent Avenue and Spence Street, withdrew $200 from an ATM and bumped into a man he met once before named Rory or Lori -- a man later identified as Haiart. The men walked together west on Sargent. When they crossed Maryland Street, Jalloh heard two shots and saw two young males on bicycles speeding toward them. Shortly after the cyclists passed, Jalloh heard two more shots, one of which struck his right forearm. Jalloh said he ran back to Sargent and then headed east. At Sherbrook and Sargent, he stopped and saw Haiart running behind him. When Jalloh asked if he was OK, Haiart said he had been shot and collapsed on the sidewalk. Susan Van Dreser, the mother of Haiart's girlfriend Isora, said last night her daughter had never met or heard of Jalloh and she has no idea where the name "Rory" would come from. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:34:50 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: DAD FEARS GANGS, GUNS SPREADING PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2005.10.27 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 5 BYLINE: JONATHAN JENKINS, TORONTO SUN WORD COUNT: 195 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DAD FEARS GANGS, GUNS SPREADING - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The cancer of gun crime and the gangs that drive it are both spreading across the GTA, says a suburban dad whose son was unexpectedly involved in a shooting that left a friend in critical condition. "I used to think these shootings were all over drug deals," said the Whitby father, who didn't want his name used. "But these are good kids; they weren't dealing any drugs." The man's son was with friends at a nightclub in Whitby last weekend when they got into a bar fight with some other young men. They left the club thinking the fight was over but were confronted a short distance away. "Two guys came out from a car with a gun, and started shooting," the father said. "Everybody ran but the the one fellow, he thought maybe he should pretend he was shot and fell on the ground. "The guy walked up to him and apparently shot four shots into him as he lay on the ground." The victim, 22, remains in hospital in critical condition. The man said his son believes the gunmen may come from Rexdale, one of Toronto's most relentlessly violent neighbourhoods. "It's not just the city, it's spreading," he said, adding he's not sure if Tuesday's announcement of a new GTA anti-gang task force will make an impression. "Hopefully, they're working together. I'm surprised they haven't caught these guys." Meanwhile, Det.-Sgt. Doug Quan, the officer in charge of Toronto's soon to be expanded Guns and Gangs Task Force, said the new squad will be taking a robust approach to the problem.0 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:35:16 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Letter: Guns an issue, not a tactic PUBLICATION: Montreal Gazette DATE: 2005.10.27 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial / Op-ed PAGE: A28 SOURCE: The Gazette WORD COUNT: 119 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Guns an issue, not a tactic - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Prime Minister Paul Martin has publicly stated about Americans that there is "an obligation on their side to work with us to prevent the smuggling of guns into Canada." What are we doing to stop smuggling of guns into Canada? Are we increasing border security? Are we training our border guards to address this threat? Are we working at anything other than speech writing? It seems the PM is using the issue of violence in Toronto as a lever in the softwood lumber dispute. His reasons for raising the issue are economic and political, and not in a compassionate context, as he wishes us to believe they are. The lumber dispute might be valid. However, the means to resolve it should not include exploiting the victims of violence without the intention of truly addressing the problem. Chris Conn Fleurimont ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:27:51 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Colt 45 seized from car of 25-year-old http://www.900chml.com/news/news_local.cfm?cat=7428545912&rem=21978&red=801 54523aPBIny&wids=410&gi=1&gm=news_local.cfm Colt 45 seized from car of 25-year-old Oct, 26 2005 - 11:40 AM HAMILTON (AM900 CHML) - One more crime gun is off the streets of Hamilton. A 45 calibre semi-automatic handgun was seized Monday afternoon during a traffic stop on Sanford Avenue North. Police stopped a 25-year-old man after learning he was contravening his release conditions. A search of his Cadillac turned up the gun and small amounts of crack and marijuana. Christopher Roberts is charged with 5 firearm related offences and possession of narcotics. - - Jay McQueen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:28:31 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: A gun culture lies behind high rates of gun killings At 08:23 AM 10/27/05 -0600, you wrote: > > > >PUBLICATION: The Record (Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo) >DATE: 2005.10.27 >EDITION: Final >SECTION: INSIGHT >PAGE: A11 >BYLINE: GWYNNE DYER >SOURCE: FOR THE RECORD >ILLUSTRATION: Photo: GWYNNE DYER >WORD COUNT: 741 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >A gun culture lies behind high rates of gun killings > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Last Sunday in Brazil, a country with the second-highest rate of gun >deaths on the planet, almost two-thirds of Brazilians voted against a >total ban on the sale of firearms. Explain that. > >Brazil loses 38,000 people a year in gun-related killings. That is twice >as bad as the United States, generally regarded as the industry leader >in these matters: The U.S. has one and a half times Brazil's population, >but only 30,000 Americans are shot to death each year. > >In Brazil, just being on the street can be fatal, with thousands of >innocent people killed in the crossfire each year as rival gangs fight >for control of the drug trade. And yet Brazilians voted to keep the sale >of guns legal. It is a sub culture of criminals with no respect for human life that is feeding the high murder rate in Brasil. Not to mention there are rumours that the police are dificult to tell from the criminals at times. Guns are not causing the high crime rate in Brasil. It is a government not willing or able to deal with miscreants who have no respect for the law or human life. Deal with these people and the crime will go away. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:30:17 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun > DATE: 2005.10.26 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: News > PAGE: 3 > BYLINE: MATT CARTER, TORONTO SUN > WORD COUNT: 152 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Even if we get just one gun off the street, it's one less gun that can > commit a crime," Crime Stoppers co-ordinator Det. Larry Straver said. So now guns are committing crime ?? whatever happened to criminals ? If they dont watch out theyll be out of a job with all these guns taking their place? LOL Whatever happened to the real crims ?do they not exist anymore ?The blatant anti-gun sentiment here is quite obvious ! Not only does it vilify guns as being animate but it has to be one of the stoooooopidest thoughts to come out of TO along with all their other Commie leftist BS. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:30:27 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Martin to press Rice to help stop U.S gun smuggling - ----- Original Message ----- > http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=582c92c0-c274-463c-93b1-70be7d > 6e7a5a > > Martin to press Rice to help stop U.S gun smuggling > > Alexander Panetta > Canadian Press > Tuesday, October 25, 2005 > > OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin says the Americans have an obligation > to help stop the smuggling of guns into Canada. The Americans are already doing more than the Kanadian Customs ? The first time in my life I was asked at the ?American border if I had ever been fingerprinted ? I said YES 55 YEARS AGO WHEN I PURCHASED A HANDGUN .DO YOU HAVE ANY HANDGUNS WITH YOU ? No? any alcohol or tobacco ? yes , which I bought on the way up how long you gonna be in the US ? I said it takes about 3 days to get home . Ok have a safe trip Coming back thru the border at Detroit ? How long have you been gone ? 3 days , what is the valuue of the goods your bringing back ...$***.** ok bye. Thats the extent of Canadian border secirity ed/onatrio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:30:41 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Joe's letter to NP, V8 #547 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray" To: Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:35 AM Subject: Joe's letter to NP, V8 #547 > Great letter, Joe. It is maddening to hear a police chief say that > citizens > in a crime-ridden city should be unarmed. What colossal arrogance. > Regrettably, Chief Blair is likely joined in such perverse thinking by > most > big-city chiefs in the country, as well as the RCMP Commissioner. > > Can anyone spell "police state"? > > Regards//jmb They might be out of a job if citizens were legally armed ? the crime rate would drop like stone in a bucket of water and they would have to lay off some officers instead of hiring more ? Anybody say? self serving job security ? since police are NOT obligated to protect the individual ?Just the public at large ? not arming citizens is truly an oxymoron. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:31:21 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: EDITOR (Just what the world needs -- more litigation) - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Ottawa Sun > DATE: 2005.10.27 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: Comment > PAGE: 13 > COLUMN: Letters to the Editor > WORD COUNT: 350 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > LETTERS TO THE EDITOR COLUMN > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > WE HAVE one smart bunch of politicians, don't we! They are trying to sue > law abiding firearms manufacturer for crimes committed by criminals ... > What is next? They will be going after the spoon manufacturers to curb > obesity ... Sorry, but I did not vote for that! > > Michel Trahan > Montreal > > EDITOR (Just what the world needs -- more litigation) Its a great idea ! lets go after auto manufacturers too............ their cars cause accidents and kill and maim people . ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:32:18 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: A gun culture lies behind high rates of gun killings - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Record (Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo) > DATE: 2005.10.27 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: INSIGHT > PAGE: A11 > BYLINE: GWYNNE DYER > SOURCE: FOR THE RECORD > ILLUSTRATION: Photo: GWYNNE DYER > WORD COUNT: 741 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > A gun culture lies behind high rates of gun killings > > > All those steps enjoyed popular support, but the referendum proposal -- > to ban all sales of guns and ammunition in Brazil except to the police > and military -- was clearly a step too far. People don't trust the > Brazilian police to protect them, and they know that the criminals will > always be able to get their hands on guns anyway. Hmmm they dont mention that the police and military forces in the southern climes are corrupt ?Only there it is an acknowledged fact of life , here it is hidden under the guise of innocence. Ive never been to Brazil but I do know that the police there, on an not occasional basis shoot street kids especially in the larger cities like Rio de.JThis has been documented. I know in Mexico, from personal experience ,that the police are crooked as a dogs hind leg and a small bribe will get you off any trumped up" charge " ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:33:21 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN - ----- Original Message ----- From: "10x" <10x@telus.net> To: Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:38 PM Subject: Re: TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN > At 04:19 PM 10/26/05 -0600, you wrote: >> >> >> >>PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun >>DATE: 2005.10.26 >>EDITION: Final >>SECTION: News >>PAGE: 3 >>BYLINE: MATT CARTER, TORONTO SUN >>WORD COUNT: 152 >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>TIPS LEAD POLICE TO ONLY 1 GUN >> ? > > A gun is still an inanimate object that is indiferent to whether it is > used > safely and legally or by an individual bent on harming another human. It > is the human who is dangerous, not the gun. > > Maybe Detective Straver ment "one less gun available to miscreants who are > willing hurt other folk". Nope he mean what he said It just gives you an idea of the intelligence of the "Keystone Kops" ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:01:48 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Ottawa lobs gun suits to provinces: - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: Edmonton Journal > DATE: 2005.10.27 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: News > PAGE: A6 > BYLINE: Kelly Cryderman > SOURCE: The Edmonton Journal > DATELINE: EDMONTON > WORD COUNT: 429 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Ottawa lobs gun suits to provinces: Justice ministers to discuss ways of > holding gun makers liable for smuggling > > The Alberta government will not comment on Cotler's proposal yet. > > A spokesman for provincial Justice Minister Ron Stevens said the > department needs time to study the idea. "In fairness, our minister in > our department will want the time to get all the facts," Justice > spokeswoman Shannon Haggerty said. > > kcryderman@thejournal.canwest.com Now they want to pass the buck to the provinces so they can say its not a federal problem, its provincial , thereby electioneering thru the back door for the next election/ ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:08:18 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: EDITOR (It's been a boondoggle.) - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun > DATE: 2005.10.27 > EDITION: Final > SECTION: Editorial/Opinion > PAGE: 10 > COLUMN: Letters to the Editor > WORD COUNT: 454 > > > RE: "BLAME Canada," editorial, Oct. 27. I agree that the gun registry > has not been successful. Gun violence is on the rise, particularly in > Toronto, and I have not seen any data or studies to tell me that the > registry is doing anything useful. The amount of money spent is > mind-boggling. I think it is time for the Liberals to review their > strategy pertaining to gun crimes and violence. > > Vince Leonty > > EDITOR (It's been a boondoggle.) well its up to TO to vote them out the next election or it will only get worse? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:08:23 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Number of smuggled guns cited by Martin is unsubstantiated - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: GLOBE AND MAIL > DATE: 2005.10.27 > PAGE: A6 > BYLINE: CAMPBELL CLARK > SECTION: National News > EDITION: Metro > DATELINE: Ottawa ONT > WORD COUNT: 551 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Don't blame U.S. for gun crime, Canada told > Number of smuggled guns cited by Martin is unsubstantiated, U.S. > ambassador says > > Aside from the differences of opinion over what constitutes a "crime > gun," serial numbers are usually rubbed out on guns seized, making them > untraceable, he said. Nonsense!!!!!!!! there is technology available to trace serial #s that have been removed .But it costs money. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:08:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Tom Bryant" Subject: quote in Toronto Sun Here is my letter sent to the Sun. Not printed yet. When Crime Stoppers co-ordinator Det. Larry Straver said "Even if we get just one gun off the street, it's one less gun that can commit a crime" it sounded like he thinks guns have little tiny feet and are running through T.O. causing mayhem. This is the same thinking that created the billion dollar soother for the Coalition for Gun Control the Liberals call the Gun Registry. To my certain knowledge guns do not commit crimes. Criminals commit crimes. Don't talk to me about how you can beat up on law abiding gun owners who have nothing to do with gun crime or brag about taking a gun off the streets when I know that gun can be replaced the same day. Tell me about what you are doing to get the Criminals off the streets. Eliminate the criminals attached to them and I think Det. Straver will find that guns will stop committing crimes. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:46:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: Number of smuggled guns cited by Martin is unsubstantiated - ----- Original Message ----- > PUBLICATION: GLOBE AND MAIL > DATE: 2005.10.27 > PAGE: A6 > BYLINE: CAMPBELL CLARK > SECTION: National News > EDITION: Metro > DATELINE: Ottawa ONT > WORD COUNT: 551 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Don't blame U.S. for gun crime, Canada told > Number of smuggled guns cited by Martin is unsubstantiated, U.S. > ambassador says > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The figure, which others have used previously, is not based on any > statistical study that could be traced by The Globe and Mail, and police > forces and other authorities said yesterday it is not verifiable. > > "I know that figure of 50 per cent has been bandied about, but no one > can substantiate that figure," said Staff Sergeant Paul Marsh, a > spokesman for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. > "I think the figure that's been bandied about of 50 per cent has not > been substantiated." Mr. Wilkins told CTV's Canada AM that the Canadians > admitted the figure has no basis. Mr. Wilkins declined to tell The Globe > whether the Prime Minister conceded the figure was not substantiated. > A spokesman for the Prime Minister, Melanie Gruer, said that Mr. > Martin had difficulty recalling the source of the figure in the > meetings, but did not say it was unsubstantiated. > Many police experts say a substantial number of guns from the United > States are used in crimes, but many cannot be traced. Weapons are often > stolen or smuggled, but the RCMP, Justice Canada, and Statistics > Canada's Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics said they have no > figures for their origins. > > Spokesmen for the Canadian Professional Police Association and the > Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police said the statistic did not come > from them. > > Ms. Gruer said yesterday that the source was Toronto Police Chief > William Blair and Toronto Mayor David Miller. A spokesman for Mr. > Miller said that the information came from the Toronto Police Service, > and Chief Blair. > > "It was said by the chief, but to be frank with you, we're not sure it's > a Toronto statistic," said Staff Inspector Bruce Crawford, who oversees > the force's gangs and guns task force. This is a substantial kick in the nuts for the anti-gun crowd - we need to keep putting the boots to them about how they lie and twist statistics around. We need to write copious numbers of letters to the Editor of the Globe and every other newspaper relating the long list of lies. The most prominent one is Wendy trying to use a bogus number of "crime guns" before the Parliamentary Committee that was refuted by the RCMP Commissioner at the time. Others are how they include suicides in their total numbers of "gun deaths", when suicide is "means independant", and how they consistently try to use statistics that include 18-24-year-olds and refer to them as "children". Oh yeah, they still try to use the discredited Kellermann study of "43 times", too. If anyone can come up with some more specific lies and deliberate misrepresentations, please post them here, along with your letter. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #551 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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