From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #592 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, November 5 2005 Volume 08 : Number 592 In this issue: George Jonas Column: First the punishment, then the trial AMNESTY in ON? Re: AMNESTY in ON? RE: Mystery signal blocking Ottawa door devices Police need protection Liberal Eats Crow NEWS RELEASE Re: [Bulk] RE: Mystery signal blocking Ottawa door devices Re: Give up your guns, urges Toronto's top cop Ontario Amnesty Anti-gun Poster Tories take lead in opinion poll Winter election would derail major talks, Martin warns My letter to Ontario newspapers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:00:16 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: George Jonas Column: First the punishment, then the trial PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2005.11.04 EDITION: National SECTION: Issues & Ideas PAGE: A20 COLUMN: George Jonas BYLINE: George Jonas SOURCE: National Post WORD COUNT: 926 - ------------------------------------------------------------ First the punishment, then the trial - ------------------------------------------------------------ The Gomery Inquiry ended the way the poet said the world would end: not with a bang but a whimper -- the latter coming from former prime minister Jean Chretien's throat. The anti-climax was hardly the judge's fault. Most of what there was to know about "Adscam" was known before the inquiry began. The rest was dotting i's and crossing t's, vital for a neat copy but not the stuff of great drama. It was clear the judge would exonerate Prime Minister Paul Martin. He had no other choice. When someone says he did nothing wrong, and no one comes to court to say that he did, the uncontradicted evidence is that he didn't. The finding ought to be a foregone conclusion, and so it was. Nor was it great news that a cozy caucus of Liberals would turn out to be inept and corrupt in the twilight years of Chretien's interminable regime. Cozy caucuses of any political denomination tend to be inept and corrupt in their twilight years (if not long before). Much as one would like to believe that a similar scandal couldn't have happened on a Conservative prime minister's watch, one knows only too well that it could have. None of this is to minimize ineptitude and corruption. The knowledge that graft and lassitude cross party lines doesn't make them more tolerable. The fact that inquires like Judge Gomery's are often anti-climactic doesn't reduce their importance. It's only that while such routine and relatively minor illnesses of government as self-dealing and nepotism continue to generate headlines, its major and most deadly diseases pass virtually unnoticed. Governments, including free and democratic governments, are to some extent hostile to freedom and democracy. They coexist only uneasily with the rule of law, which limits their powers and their penchant for social engineering. Governments are prone to what I call Guantanamo Bay-ism: the gradual transformation of the state into a potential police-state, and the international community into a potential police-community. A gradual shift from the rule of law to the rule of administrative expediency has been evolving for at least the last 50 years. It emerged partly as a defensive response against the burgeoning totalitarian tyrannies of the 20th century, and partly as an adaptation to them. As often happens in history, while fighting the enemy, in this case Nazi- and Communist-type despotism or "offensive" statism, liberal democracies absorbed and internalized many of their enemy's philosophies and methods. The type of "defensive" statism practiced by democracies expresses itself in ever-expanding areas of restrictions, limitations, surveillance and extra-judicial sanctions. Each act of intervention or prohibition, each removal of a legal safeguard, is justified by the need -- often, a valid need -- to protect society against the depredations of criminals and terrorists. The suspension of rights is circumscribed to begin with. Special measures, like forfeiture of property, are aimed only at members of organized crime. Only aliens suspected of terrorism are held without charges. But soon the draconian or the extra-judicial becomes the norm. Emergency procedures become permanent and all-embracing. Today in America, the land of the free, a person's property may be confiscated by the state, not just before he's convicted of a crime, but even accused. No, he need not be a Mafioso, a member of a notorious crime family. He can be an ordinary businessman caught up in a commercial dispute, facing an aggressive prosecutor in an atmosphere of post-Enron hysteria. Ambitious officials can indict people on the basis of Martha Stewart-type offenses, and realistically hope to jail them for saying they're innocent of a crime with which they've never been charged. When this happens, citizens have much more to worry about than cronyism or corruption. Guantanamo Bay-ism threatens to change the nature of democracies to resemble the evil systems they had fought and are still fighting. In Canada, Justice Minister Irwin Cotler seems intent on pushing through at least two pieces of legislation that would make the damage caused by Adscam look like small beer. One bill would allow government to monitor e-mail and internet communications and oblige service providers to share their customers' records with the police when requested. I escaped Communist Eastern Europe 50 years ago because it had laws like this. Now East Europe has thrown them into the garbage, but Mr. Cotler is picking them out for export to Canada. The other bill, called the Proceeds of Crime Act, would allow the authorities to seize anyone's assets obtained through crime -- before convicting them, or presumably even charging them, in court. How do we know their assets are the fruits of crime? Well, the authorities say so. Never mind Eastern Europe 50 years ago. This seems to come directly from Alice in Wonderland: first the punishment, then the trial. A bill like this turns back the clock to before the days of the Magna Carta. Adscam is a picnic compared to Bill C-53 -- yet where are the headlines? One reason they're absent is that draconian laws and obstinate law enforcement are often mistaken for signs of health. Governments are cheered, applauded, and congratulated for them. The fact is, though, such laws and law enforcement don't signal that democracies are finally standing up to terrorists or organized crime. They signal only that the state's officials are standing up to the rule of law. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:03:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Richard A. Fritze" Subject: AMNESTY in ON? I see in the news that another "turn in your firearms" campaign has been announced - this time in Ontario. Manitoba has had one, too, in the past year or so. What I haven't seen for either one is the necessary Order in Council required under the Criminal Code, which reads: Amnesty period 117.14 (1) The Governor in Council may, by order, declare for any purpose referred to in subsection (2) any period as an amnesty period with respect to any weapon, prohibited device, prohibited ammunition, explosive substance or component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm. Purposes of amnesty period (2) An order made under subsection (1) may declare an amnesty period for the purpose of (a) permitting any person in possession of any thing to which the order relates to do anything provided in the order, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, delivering the thing to a peace officer, a firearms officer or a chief firearms officer, registering it, destroying it or otherwise disposing of it; or (b) permitting alterations to be made to any prohibited firearm, prohibited weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition to which the order relates so that it no longer qualifies as a prohibited firearm, a prohibited weapon, a prohibited device or prohibited ammunition, as the case may be. Reliance on amnesty period (3) No person who, during an amnesty period declared by an order made under subsection (1) and for a purpose described in the order, does anything provided for in the order, is, by reason only of the fact that the person did that thing, guilty of an offence under this Part. Proceedings are a nullity (4) Any proceedings taken under this Part against any person for anything done by the person in reliance of this section are a nullity. 1995, c. 39, s. 139. Has anyone on this list seen anything resembling an O in C? Or are these respective provincial Police and Justice Departments ignoring the law? Without the necessary authority from Parliament, the locals must uphold all the laws - not just the ones that suit them. Otherwise, what's next? Temporary suspension of the usual prosecutions for, say, theft of public funds? GUNFIGHTER: "RIDING SHOTGUN FOR YOU" Richard A. Fritze, B.A. [Econ.], L.L.B. Barrister, Solicitor & Notary Toll-free 1 877 79 4GUNS [4867] New Red Deer Office: 2250 Gaetz Avenue Tel. 403 343 2506 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:16:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: AMNESTY in ON? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard A. Fritze To: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:03 PM Subject: AMNESTY in ON? > Has anyone on this list seen anything resembling an O in C? Or are these > respective provincial Police and Justice Departments ignoring the law? > Without the necessary authority from Parliament, the locals must uphold > all the laws - not just the ones that suit them. Otherwise, what's next? > Temporary suspension of the usual prosecutions for, say, theft of public > funds? Sadly, they don't need one. The Provincial Attorney General may use his discretion to determine what sort of "priority" he will set for what criminal charges. In this instance, he has decided to waive prosecution for "illegal guns" (non-registered) but not "crime guns" (guns actually used to commit a crime) for the month of November. This is how Alberta can claim that it won't enforce the Firearms Act, making the Feds use their money and resources to do so. Bruce Hamilton Ontario. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:23:36 -0600 (CST) From: Rod Regier Subject: RE: Mystery signal blocking Ottawa door devices Guess they never heard of radio direction finding... Care to wager that the Canadian Forces (at least) has an equipped signals Intelligence unit that could probably solve the mystery of the transmitter location In about 10 minutes after deployment? I would be surprised if Communications Canada doesn't have such capability too. It's not rocket science. German and other nations counter-intelligence units In WWII were using it to track down clandestine radio operators Who were using much less powerful transmitters. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:25:35 -0600 (CST) From: Len Miller Subject: Police need protection Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 11:59:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: [LETTER] POLICE NEED PROTECTION POLICE NEED PROTECTION As an off-duty officer who took part in the rally on Wednesday, out of uniform, and unarmed, I for one was glad to see a few armed fellow officers in our midst. Why? Because what kept coming to my mind was the very real possibility that a certain criminal element would see this march as a golden opportunity to try and take out some police officers. What better target than unarmed police, without their body armour, walking up the middle of a crowded downtown street? At least we had some protection. Any time a police officer is identifiable in public, they are as much a target for attack as they are a symbol of public order and safety. Kevin Proulx Toronto (We're all for protecting our cops, but that sounds like a weak excuse for those who defied orders) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bruce has something there . .. As opposed to the protest, in Ottawa, by UNARMED law-abiding gun owners who were covered by RCMP snipers, with scoped rifles . . The rally wasn't without results . . two people were arrested with a receiver and jailed . . charges were eventually dropped . . Would that the laws were applied evenly . . Len ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:13:27 -0600 (CST) From: AOB Subject: Liberal Eats Crow So they have not changed their Spots http://gerrynicholls.blogspot.com/2005/11/brison-eats-crow.html "FREEDOM" For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:13:52 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Subject: NEWS RELEASE NEWS RELEASE November 4, 2005 For Immediate Release STILL NO EVIDENCE GUN REGISTRY IS IMPROVING PUBLIC SAFETY "Public Safety Minister's feeble responses show deliberate flaws in system design." Ottawa - Saskatchewan M.P. Garry Breitkreuz, the Conservative Firearms Critic, is disappointed with the Public Safety Minister's lack of answers in her responses to two of his written questions. "If Parliamentarians are going to do a better job of controlling government spending, we need better answers than this," exclaimed Breitkreuz. "From these responses, I can only conclude that the Liberals have deliberately designed the system so that it can't produce the hard data Parliament needs to determine whether or not public safety has been improved and if taxpayers are getting value for their money." As evidence, Breitkreuz provided the government's responses (not answers) to two of his written Order Paper Questions that he introduced on September 26, 2005: Q-177 with respect to the tracing of firearms and Q-178 concerning statistics about the effectiveness of the system (see below for links to Q-177 and Q-178 on Breitkreuz's website). Breitkreuz offered up three examples to prove his point: EXAMPLE #1: Breitkreuz asked: "How many successful firearms traces linked crime scenes to the accused? McLELLAN'S RESPONSE: "The RCMP does not keep statistics on the outcome of a trace." BREITKREUZ'S COMMENT: No wonder the Prime Minister embarrassed himself when he claimed that 50% of crime guns are smuggled into Canada from the U.S.A. - his own Minister doesn't collect the information! EXAMPLE #2: Breitkreuz asked: "How does the program track the addresses of these 13,500 now too-dangerous-to-own-firearms persons once their firearms licences have been refused or revoked? McLELLAN'S RESPONSE: "The Canada Firearms Centre does not track the address information for individuals whose licence has been refused or revoked." BREITKREUZ'S COMMENT: "Instead of tracking the addresses of a few thousand dangerous individuals, the government tracks the addresses of two million law-abiding gun owners. That's Liberal logic for you!" EXAMPLE #3: Breitkreuz asked: "What specific types of information in the system are actually being accessed and accessed most often by police? McLELLAN'S RESPONSE: "CFRO can only provide the total number of queries made by all agencies with access to it." BREITKREUZ'S COMMENT: "More than 5,000 queries a day but the Minister doesn't know who is accessing it, for what purpose or whether they are actually helping police fight crime. The police and the people of Toronto won't be comforted by the Minister's vague responses. "Why would the Liberals deliberately design a system that produces numbers but no results?" asked Breitkreuz. "I challenge Minister McLellan to explain how this paper-pushing exercise is actually making our streets safer and how wasting a $100 million a year on the gun registry is a better value than putting more police on our streets and highways to catch real criminals. Her latest answers are an insult to the intelligence of taxpayers. Stop pouring good money after bad. Scrap the gun registry." BREITKREUZ'S QUESTIONS Q-177 & Q-178 & PUBLIC SAFETY MINISTER'S RESPONSES http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/news/newinfo2005.htm -30- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:14:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert P." Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: Mystery signal blocking Ottawa door devices The CF has the capability (once intercepted) of locating a signal transmitter within 1 minute. However, due to legislation it is illegal to do so within the boundaries of Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:42:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: Give up your guns, urges Toronto's top cop - ----- Original Message ----- > http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/11/04/gunamnesty-051104.html > Give up your guns, urges Toronto's top cop There's a video clip you can download for this story, which is pretty balanced considering it's the Communist Broadcasting Collective: http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/birak_gunamnesty051104.mov You can also leave your feedback on their website via this online form; http://www.cbc.ca/news/feedback/index.html?CBC%20News:%20Give%20up%20your%2 0guns,%20urges%20Toronto's%20top%20cop There don't seem to be any responses on this particular topic, perhaps this is an opportunity for us to flood them with pro-gun comments. Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:01:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Ontario Amnesty Anti-gun Poster I converted the .pdf format of this poster that the Ontario Gun Amnesty program is using into .jpg format, for ease of use. I find the slogan "Either end of a gun is a bad place to be" to be particularly insulting. Ontario gun owners should write to your MPP, and to Squinty and his Gang, and express your displeasure: http://home.cogeco.ca/~akimoya2/anti.gun.poster.JPG ==================================== Premier of Ontario Dalton "Squinty" McGuinty (OTTAWA SOUTH - Liberal) Premier's Office Legislative Bldg Rm 281 Queen's Park Toronto, ON M7A 1A1 Phone: 416-325-1941 Fax: 416-325-7578 Email: webprem@gov.on.ca dalton_mcguinty-mpp@ontla.ola.org Constituency Office/ Bureau de circonscription 1795 Kilborn Ave. Ottawa, ON K1H 6N1 Fax / Téléc. : 613-736-7374 Tel / Tél. : 613-736-9573 ==================================== Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services Monty Kwinter (YORK CENTRE - Liberal) Minister's Office George Drew Bldg 18th Floor 25 Grosvenor Street Toronto, Ontario M7A 1Y6 Phone: (416) 325-0408 Fax: (416) 325-6067 Email: monte_kwinter-mpp@ontla.ola.org mkwinter.mpp@liberal.ola.org Constituency Office/ Bureau de circonscription 539 Wilson Heights Blvd. Downsview, ON M3H 2V7 Fax / Téléc. : 416-630-8828 Tel / Tél. : 416-630-0080 ==================================== Attorney General Michael Bryant (ST. PAUL'S - Liberal) Attorney General Minister Responsible for Native Affairs Minister Responsible for Democratic Renewal Address(es) / Adresse(s) Queen's Park Ministry of the Attorney General 720 Bay St, 11th Flr Toronto ON M5G 2K1 Fax / Téléc : 416-326-4016 Tel / Tél : 416-326-2220 email / courriel: mbryant-mpp@liberal.ola.org Constituency Office/ Bureau de circonscription 803 St. Clair Ave W Toronto ON M6C 1B9 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:11:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Tories take lead in opinion poll http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2005/11/05/poll051105 Tories take lead in opinion poll Last Updated Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:08:31 A new poll conducted after the release of the Gomery report suggests the Conservatives have now pulled ahead of the Liberals in public support. The poll, conducted by the Strategic Counsel and published Saturday, suggests the Tories have the support of 31 per cent of Canadians, an increase of six percentage points from a similar poll carried out three weeks ago. Although Justice John Gomery exonerated Prime Minister Paul Martin in his report on the sponsorship scandal, the poll found the issue has eroded Liberal support across the country. The Liberals have 28 per cent, down 10 percentage points from an Oct. 14 poll. The NDP trails with 20 per cent, and the Bloc Québécois is at 13 per cent. The pollsters interviewed 1,000 people, starting one day after the Gomery report was released. The Oct. 2-3 survey, conducted for the Globe and CTV, is considered accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. With that kind of margin of error, the Liberals and Conservatives could be seen to be in a virtual tie for support. In seat-rich Ontario, the two parties leading in the poll each had 35 per cent of support. The NDP now leads in British Columbia, while the Bloc has 57 per cent of the francophone vote. The results may be just the political ammunition the opposition needs to trigger an election, Strategic Counsel chair Allan Gregg told the Globe. The prime minister promised to call an election 30 days after Gomery's second report, due in February. Martin will talk about the interim report during his two-minute radio address on Sunday. Written by CBC News Online staff ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:15:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Winter election would derail major talks, Martin warns http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2005/11/05/martin-051105 Winter election would derail major talks, Martin warns Last Updated Sat, 05 Nov 2005 19:08:12 Prime Minister Paul Martin is predicting that a winter election would throw a spanner in the works of a number of important government initiatives - including talks on aboriginal issues, climate change and free trade. As a new poll suggests the Conservatives have pulled ahead of the Liberals in public support, Martin acknowledged Saturday that he couldn't control whether Opposition politicians try to bring down his minority Liberal government and force an election. But the prime minister warned that his government is scheduled to take part in a number of important meetings and conferences, making it a bad time for an election. For example, he pointed out that a first ministers meeting set for Nov. 24-25 in Kelowna, B.C., would focus on aboriginal issues. "This is, I believe, our best chance of really making a significant difference," said Martin, at a news conference Saturday afternoon at the end of the Summit of the Americas in Mar del Plata, Argentina. "And I don't think anybody wants to see that first ministers meeting effectively cut off by a premature election." Other upcoming meetings include a United Nations conference on climate change in Montreal and a World Trade Organization meeting in Hong Kong in December. All of them would be put off by a winter election, Martin said. He also warned that an election campaign would come before Mr. Justice John Gomery could deliver his final report on the sponsorship scandal, which is due to be released in February. "I think Canadians want, essentially, to see Mr. Justice Gomery's second report. And I think that Canadians want us to govern until such time as an election is called and that's what we intend to do." Martin said more time is also needed to finish the work undertaken at this Summit of the Americas, where the 34 participating governments failed to reach unanimous agreement on a free trade area extending from North America to South America. While talking at the summit with U.S. President George W. Bush, Martin also wasn't able to wring any concessions from the United States over the softwood lumber dispute. However, he said Canada needs to stick to its guns over the issue, arguing that that's one more reason not to hold an election before Christmas. Written by CBC News Online staff ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 18:53:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: My letter to Ontario newspapers Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mills To: Bruce Mills Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:52 PM Subject: Yet Another Useless Gun Amnesty Yet again, the virulently anti-gun cops and politicians are pushing their agenda to remove guns from the hands of law abiding private citizens. They don't seem to care that WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM - we are the victims! Our guns are securely locked up, as required by law, and are securely locked within our homes. Any "potential" for crime rests solely with the criminal who perpetrates it, not the victims from whom guns are stolen. These bozos seem to have forgotten this particular fact. Actual criminals decide, of their own volition, to break into our houses (a crime), and steal our property from us (another crime). We are not to blame! Chief Blair's comments that we should "reconsider" owning guns because they might get stolen is insulting. Perhaps he should reconsider being a cop. The owners of no other type of legal property are so targeted and demonized as are gun owners. Harassing law abiding gun owners just because they own guns that might get stolen is like saying a rape victim was "asking for it" by dressing provocatively. Law abiding gun owners are fed up with being made the scapegoat for the inefficiencies of leftist governments to control real criminals. It must stop! ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #592 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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