From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #599 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, November 7 2005 Volume 08 : Number 599 In this issue: My letter to Peter Kent "UTAG-United Toronto Against Guns" Florida takes lead in push for gun ownership rights Paris police fear rioters' heavy arms Re: Province adds crimefighting tool Re: My letter to Peter Kent Re: "UTAG-United Toronto Against Guns" Re: Paris police fear rioters' heavy arms Re: My letter to Peter Kent Re: My letter to Peter Kent UTAG Objectives..long form and short UTAG rally, what do you think? What is the Conservative Party of Canada's Position on Gun ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:58:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: My letter to Peter Kent Have you written a letter yet? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mills To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Uniting Toronto Against Guns Dear Mr. Kent: I have just recently been appraised of the fact that you are one of the Chairs of the "Uniting Toronto Against Guns" committee. My first question must be: why wasn't it called "Uniting Toronto Against GANGS"? That is where the real focus should be placed. The targeting of inanimate objects does nothing to quell the demand for those objects. That should be readily apparent from the failure of the Prohibition of alcohol in the 1920's, and the Prohibitions on (some) drugs in the United States. Responsibility must be placed squarely where it belongs: on the criminal thugs who misuse firearms for criminal purposes - not law abiding gun owners. As a Conservative Party of Canada candidate for the next Federal election, I trust that you are conversant with, and fully supportive of, the CPC's Policy on Firearms, #81: 81. Firearms A Conservative Government will repeal Canada's costly gun registry legislation and work with the provinces and territories on cost-effective gun control programs designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding Canadians to own and use firearms responsibly. Measures will include: mandatory minimum sentences for the criminal use of firearms; strict monitoring of high-risk individuals; crackdown on the smuggling; safe storage provisions; firearms safety training; a certification screening system for all those wishing to acquire firearms legally; and putting more law enforcement officers on our streets. This policy recognizes that attempts by liberals at so-called "gun control" laws are fatally flawed, and doomed to failure. Far too much time, effort and money have arlready been squandered on these boondoggles. It would be a shame for you and this Committee to indulge in a repitition of these misguided actions. I hope that you will be a stalwart defender of our rights, and will vociferously and vehemently fight against any attempts to turn this into a witch hunt against law-abiding gun owners. If you stand up for us, we will stand up for you and your Party at election time. Sincerely, Bruce N. Mills Dundas, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 12:14:37 -0600 (CST) From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "UTAG-United Toronto Against Guns" UTAG- "United Toronto Against Guns" note this rally isn't against criminal violence but guns themselves. (It includes prominent Conservatives, John Tory prov. leader and national P.C. Candidate Peter Kent.) They'll call for mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes and confiscation of the property of those convicted of "gun" crimes. The numerous ethnic based gangs, where the Liberals depend upon those ethnic communities for staying in power, will not be targeted so who will be the poster boy to crack down on. Rural western Ontario gunsmith, gun law protester Bruce Montague and his family. Well are there any politicians in Ontario, (or anywhere else) protesting the OPP's + Ministry of Justice's treatment of him and his family? Oh of course those stabbed or beaten to death by criminals in Toronto, and by implication elsewhere, are to be treated more leniently in effect. It's a sort of Holocaust denial being gassed to death in a concentration camp (Auschwitz) or hacked to death by a long knife(machete) Rwanda are not covered by this policy but the few hundred who participated in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising (with stolen guns) would be. In this week, leading up to Remembrance Day, commemorating those brave Canadians wielding guns who helped to liberate Europe from from the dictatorship of Nazi Germany, who sees the irony? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 12:33:43 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Subject: Florida takes lead in push for gun ownership rights http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051026&Category=N EWS&ArtNo=510260358&SectionCat=POLITICS0601&Template=printartArticle published Oct 26, 2005Florida takes lead in push for gun ownership rightsBy Cory ReissWASHINGTON BUREAUWASHINGTON -- One night a few years ago, Ginny Brown-Waite pulled into aparking lot in Chiefland around midnight to rest her drowsy eyes beforecontinuing her drive to a state legislative session in Tallahassee.She says she awoke to four or five young men rocking h er car and demandingshe open up."I said, 'No, I've got a gun in the glove compartment,'" recalledBrown-Waite, 62, who was then a state senator and now is a member ofCongress. "'You'd better leave.'"She was bluffing, but the men fled. And Brown-Waite later got a concealedweapon permit after training on a .357 magnum.The experience may help explain why Brown-Waite, who owns a .38 and a .45,gets riled when the Second Amendment comes up, as it did last week whenCongress passed landmark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 12:36:15 -0600 (CST) From: Joe Subject: Paris police fear rioters' heavy arms http://www.washtimes.com/world/20051107-122439-9658r.htm Paris police fear rioters' heavy arms By Jennifer Joan Lee THE WASHINGTON TIMES November 7, 2005 PARIS -- Police officers, exhausted and dispirited after 11 nights of street battles, say their mainly young African and Arab adversaries have access to sophisticated weapons including grenades and could soon begin using them. A dozen officers were injured, two of them seriously, after being shot with hunting rifles fitted with lead pellets during rioting last night in the suburb of Grigny, south of Paris, police said. Jean-Christophe Carne, president of a police trade union, told The Washington Times before last night's outbreak that police officers were increasingly pessimistic that civic order would be restored anytime soon. "Most of these kids are being coached by professional petty criminals and gang leaders in the suburbs," said Mr. Carne, president of Action Police CFTC. "In the past, when we have cracked down on these criminals in their homes, we found drugs, grenades and heavy weapons such as guns. While they haven't started using these arms yet, there's also no reason to think they wouldn't." About 200 rioters took part in last night's rioting in Grigny, pelting police with stones and bottles and shooting shotgun pellets. "The pellets will not kill a person if fired from a distance, but in some circumstances, they can do serious harm, such as blind someone," said a police spokesman. In other areas ringing the French capital, as well as in cities and towns across the country, arsonists continued to attack cars, buses, schools, social centers and day care centers as well as other public buildings using homemade gasoline bombs. In St. Etienne, an old industrial city in the center of France, vandals set a bus on fire, injuring two persons. While in Colombes, a suburb west of Paris, a baby was injured by stones ricocheting off a bus under attack. President Jacques Chirac declared earlier yesterday that restoring security and public order was an "absolute priority." Speaking publicly for the first time since the rioting began Oct. 27, Mr. Chirac said, "The law must have the last word. The republic is quite determined, by definition, to be stronger than those who want to sow violence or fear." Mr. Chirac, who had been criticized for his silence at a time of crisis, issued his statement after meeting top ministers on domestic security. Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who attended the meeting, said security throughout the country will be reinforced and court procedures accelerated so that those arrested can be tried immediately. Later in the evening, Muslim leaders also called for an end to violence, issuing a religious edict, or fatwa, against rioting. French authorities have hinted that Islamic militants may be manipulating angry teenagers to defy the government, using the Internet to organize the unrest. Despite the tough talk from government and community leaders, there has been no mention yet of whether the army would be called in, or whether a curfew would be imposed to suppress the rioting, the worst in France since the 1968 student riots. Overtaxed police officers, however, are hoping to see such reinforcements. "With every passing day, the violence gets worse and we are incapable of dealing with it," Mr. Carne said. "Morale within the police is at zero, and I am very pessimistic that the situation can be resolved without a major reinforcement of security." Mr. Carne said three policewomen assaulted in the Normandy town of Evreux on Saturday night were likely targeted because they were outnumbered by attackers, adding that it took two hours before additional officers were able to reach the scene. Arsonists destroyed more than 3,300 vehicles and dozens of buildings since the unrest began. In an unprecedented show of hostility, gangs of youths yesterday also began increasing their attacks on police, hitting them with everything from rocks to Molotov cocktails. More than 800 people have been arrested, of which 20 have been convicted and sentenced to at least one year in prison. Over the weekend, police also found a gasoline bomb-making workshop in a derelict building in Evry, south of Paris, with more than 100 bottles ready to be turned into Molotov cocktails, 50 more ready to use, as well as fuel stocks and hoods for hiding rioters' faces. Speaking to the Associated Press, Justice Ministry official Jean-Marie Huet said the discovery shows that gasoline bombs "are not being improvised by kids in their bathrooms." Mr. Hamon told AP that the rioters were also coordinating attacks through cell phone text messages as they gradually become better organized. Reuters news agency quoted authorities saying drug traffickers and Islamist militants were also using the Internet to organize the unrest. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:18:31 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Province adds crimefighting tool - ----- Original Message ----- > Province adds crimefighting tool > Saskatchewan News Network; Regina Leader-Post > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > *"It is then up to the alleged criminal to prove the property isn't more > likely than not the result of crime." > > Interesting on how "the state" is manipulating the law-AGAIN by placing > the > onus on the "alleged" to prove their innocence. > > *He said it won't, however, be used on a regular basis. > "There would be a lengthy investigation done before we would even > contemplate using this so it would only be a few times in a year," he > said. > > If you believe that, I've got some "Ocean-front property in Arizona" that > I'd just LOVE to sell you! > > This IS exactly the same carbon copy crackpot law that Bruce Montague has > had his house forfeited to the state under! > See: http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/0169.html > http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/index.html > > Another sad day and another chink in the state's ever continuing erosion > of > our democracy and freedoms. > > Sieg Heil! I agree strictly BS ;to misappropriate your property on trumped up charges like Bruce Montague,not that they couldnt take it in any case? as it doesnt belong to anybody but the government anyhow. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:18:58 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: My letter to Peter Kent You have done exceedingly well Bruce . Any further opus would just be gilding the lily. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:19:50 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: "UTAG-United Toronto Against Guns" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry James Fillo" > UTAG- "United Toronto Against Guns" note this rally isn't against criminal > violence but guns themselves. (It includes prominent Conservatives, John > Tory prov. leader and national P.C. Candidate Peter Kent.) > > They'll call for mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes and > confiscation of the property of those convicted of "gun" crimes. The > numerous ethnic based gangs, where the Liberals depend upon those > ethnic communities for staying in power, will not be targeted so who > will be the poster boy to crack down on. > > Rural western Ontario gunsmith, gun law protester Bruce Montague and > his family. > > Well are there any politicians in Ontario, (or anywhere else) > protesting the OPP's + Ministry of Justice's treatment of him and his > family? > > Oh of course those stabbed or beaten to death by criminals in Toronto, > and by implication elsewhere, are to be treated more leniently in > effect. > > It's a sort of Holocaust denial being gassed to death in a > concentration camp (Auschwitz) or hacked to death by a long > knife(machete) Rwanda are not covered by this policy but the > few hundred who participated in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising (with stolen > guns) would be. > > In this week, leading up to Remembrance Day, commemorating those brave > Canadians wielding guns who helped to liberate Europe from from the > dictatorship of Nazi Germany, who sees the irony? Larry its the same all over too much government and control , the new world order. The last two generations have been brainwashed to accept complete government control over their lives including ,but not limited to the rape of their bank accounts, property, and freedom. ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:20:03 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Paris police fear rioters' heavy arms - ----- Original Message ----- > http://www.washtimes.com/world/20051107-122439-9658r.htm > > Paris police fear rioters' heavy arms > > By Jennifer Joan Lee > THE WASHINGTON TIMES > November 7, 2005 > > PARIS -- Police officers, exhausted and dispirited after 11 nights of > street > battles, say their mainly young African and Arab adversaries have access > to > sophisticated weapons including grenades and could soon begin using them. > > A dozen officers were injured, two of them seriously, after being shot > with hunting rifles fitted with lead pellets during rioting last night in > the suburb of Grigny, south of Paris, police said. Nonsense ! they were shot with birdshot from shotgun(s). > Jean-Christophe Carne, president of a police trade union, told The > Washington Times before last night's outbreak that police officers were > increasingly pessimistic that civic order would be restored anytime soon. Time to declare martial law if they REALLY want to stop the rebellion ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:26:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: My letter to Peter Kent - ----- Original Message ----- From: mred > You have done exceedingly well Bruce . Any further opus would just be > gilding the lily. > ed/ontario I must disagree with you, Ed. We need *every* gun owner in Ontario, and even further afield, to write letters to all of these guys. One guy, no matter how good, is just one guy, and can be dismissed. Twenty or 50 or a hundred guys - that's much harder to ignore. There is absolutely no reason why we can't have at least 100 letters to Kent and the rest by November 13th. If we don't stand up for ourselves, nobody else is going to do it for us. So, write a letter, dammit! Bruce Hamilton Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:38:48 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: My letter to Peter Kent - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mred > >> You have done exceedingly well Bruce . Any further opus would just be >> gilding the lily. >> ed/ontario > > I must disagree with you, Ed. We need *every* gun owner in Ontario, and > even further afield, to write letters to all of these guys. One guy, no > matter how good, is just one guy, and can be dismissed. Twenty or 50 or a > hundred guys - that's much harder to ignore. > > There is absolutely no reason why we can't have at least 100 letters to > Kent and the rest by November 13th. If we don't stand up for ourselves, > nobody else is going to do it for us. > > So, write a letter, dammit! Ok no problemo/Ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 15:14:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: UTAG Objectives..long form and short The response I received from Peter Kent. He seems to be saying the right things, but I think it kinda falls short of saying "This is really all about gangs" or "I will fight for law abiding gun owners tooth and nail"... Bruce Hamilton Ontario - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kent, Peter To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: UTAG Objectives..long form and short Hi Bruce.. Thanks for taking the time to write..and yes, I'm fully aware of the Conservative Party's position on legal firearms and their use. The UTAG rally is focussed on stiffer penalties for the criminal posession and use of firearms -- cracking down on guns and gangs..in the interest of safer streets and stronger communities. The UTAG rally is not in any way intended to attack/stigmatize legitimate sports weapon owners. Our acronym should be viewed as a short-form response to the current wave of criminal gun. At the same time, I also recognize the need to deal with the sources of gun/gang activity..through intensified prevention/education programs in troubled communities. Thanks again for taking the time to write. cheers..peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 15:14:59 -0600 (CST) From: Strashko@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Vladyslav@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: UTAG rally, what do you think? Hi, I know it's a short notice, but something have to be done to save our future. I'm going to come on Sunday, November 13th, 2005 on Yonge-Dundas Square for their rally and protest "Target gangs, not guns", "Law-abiding gun owners are not the criminals". I'll try to bring as many people as I can. In fact I think we HAVE to steal this rally and make a clear statement. This rally is going to have huge media coverage and it's up to us how it's used - against gun owners or against criminals... Join me if you can or even organize and join. Thank you, Vladyslav Strashko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 15:40:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: What is the Conservative Party of Canada's Position on Gun Control? Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca http://www.clintondesveaux.com/ What is the Conservative Party of Canada's Position on Gun Control? Wednesday, November 02, 2005 Clinton P. Desveaux Let me begin this column acknowledging that yes prior to the last general federal election I wrote extensively and passionately in support of the Conservative Party of Canada. At that time, I truly believed that with Stephen Harper at the helm, that perhaps just once in Canada's most boring history of statism that we would at last be provided a legitimate alternative to the ever boring game of state expansionism. I was provided an advance copy of the Conservative election platform which was called, "Demanding Better" back in 2004. Now unlike most people, I actually knew Stephen Harper from a personal perspective, back when he was the President of the National Citizens Coalition. That was the Harper with one of the most exciting vinyl collections in Canada. Oh the stories I could tell about his LP collection. That was a Harper who could quote Beatle and Rolling Stone lyrics as if he wrote them himself. That was the Harper who could quote and defend the ideas of Ludwig von Mises and Stephen's personal hero and student of Mises, Fredrick von Hayek. When the advance copy of the election platform was provided to me, I immediately skipped to the section of gun control. After all any legitimate Conservative endorses the right to bear arms as it stems from the notion of private property ownership rights which are another basic human right associated with freedom. At first, I was excited, the election platform read, "A Conservative Government will repeal Canada's costly gun registry legislation." It was amazing for the 1st time in Conservative party politics, Canada had a party which was going to do the opposite of the former Progressive Conservative Party of creating the hand gun registry (Bill C-5Cool back in the 1930's, and gun control (Bill C-17) back in 1990. I smiled, I truly smiled, at last Stephen had followed through on those ideas which so many of us held dear. We had found a fellow traveler on the road to liberty. Someone to act as a beacon in the cold foggy haze of statism, shining down on the village to warm us all. Then something strange happened, the excitement began to drain out of me, as I continued to read, I stumbled upon the following: "Will work with the provinces on cost effective gun control programs", I immediately began to talk out loud as my wife looked on in puzzlement, 'why would we want to work with the provinces in creating cost effective gun control?' If one believes in the inherent right to bear arms as a basic building block for living in a freedom based society which respects human rights, why on earth would we want "cost effective gun control"? I mean, sure, the Liberal registry was a total blow out of taxes, but then again all gun control is a total blow out of taxes. Then my heart really began to sink all the way down to my toes. You see, there was a time, a long long while ago where I was a mover and shaker as they say, in helping to organize and eventually build what I thought would be a liberty based party or at least grounded in some basic ideas of freedom. I understand that advocating purity isn't tolerated, in fact in some cases it's treated with outright disdain. We had this thing that we called the United Alternative. A place where like minded individuals met, smoked cigars and drank scotch, we planned, and we worked to spread the gospel as they say. An old friend of mine named Ian Berg from Saskatchewan was in fact MP Gary Breitkreuz's nephew, or family member as I recall sometime back in the days of the old Reform Party. Gary can quote Ayn Rand as if she was his sister. Gary was the Reform stalwart when it came to the right to bear arms. He still is in fact with the Conservative party. Now I know when asked these question about, "Will work with the provinces on cost effective gun control programs" Gary gets very ill, as if someone has just punched him in the stomach or something. He personally would never support such nonsense, yet for some strange reason it made its way into the election platform. Gary would say things like, 'ya but its designed to keep guns out of the hands of criminals' at which point if you asked Gary, 'well Gary, who are the criminals, and how are we going to prevent them from owning firearms?' He would sort of look at you and say, 'good question'. And Gary would also say things like, 'respecting the rights of law-abiding Canadians to own and use firearms responsibly is our goal guys.' And whenever any of us asked him, 'What is responsibly?' or 'Can we use them to defend our family or private property from criminals and thieves?' At which point old MP Myron Thompson or Gary would sort of look around the room and say 'we can't really go down that path now guys' and they sort of look around the room for some reason. The part of platform that really upset me however was the following jewel: "Crackdown on the smuggling; safe storage provisions; firearms safety training; a certification screening system for all those wishing to acquire firearms legally" Now surely most gun owners will be the first to tell you that it has become almost impossible to purchase a hand gun through legal means in this country, which is one of many reasons why the smuggling issue exists. The entire safe storage issues is another, if you are home sleeping and some criminal walks in your home and rapes your wife and daughter and you have your firearms legally stored as per legal requirements and the bullets stored the same way, the chances of you being able to protect and defend your family is nil. The last thing gun owners need is a state enforced Conservative "crackdown" as Conservatives are calling for on the safe storage issue. To top it all off, the Conservative platform calls for the "certification screening system for all those wishing to acquire firearms legally", which is really code words for FAC, which is also really code words for gun control. The other issue I began to pick up on when watching the news during the last federal election was that many conservative stars from Mackay to Harper to Belinda and so on would speak about guns in strange terms; whenever the issue of gun control came up, it was immediately turned into some sort of strange debate around a "long gun registry" instead of defending the right to bear arms to protect ones family and property. The right to bear arms is a natural right, one which stems from living in a freedom based society which respects and values individual sovereign human rights and liberties. So yes, I know that most conservative activists within the party find my sniping annoying, but to be honest I was just as fierce with the Liberals before and during the last federal election. However I can no longer find myself trusting or wanting a conservative party in power which is willing to scrap the current Liberal mess that has become a long gun registry and replace it with another mess. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #599 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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