From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #634 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Wednesday, November 16 2005 Volume 08 : Number 634 In this issue: A crumby tale of Liberal generosity Lawyers Re: Lawyers BREITKREUZ MOTION FOR 12(6.1) HANDGUNS DEFEATED Why a Drop in "Gun Deaths" Cannot Justify the Gun Registry Re: Gun registry poll... Cop gets wrist slap for his part in stakeout Martin adviser under attack over $8,000 of sponsorship money Re: Gun registry poll... A little Humour Liberals' policy change linked to gun survey: Online Poll ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:44:01 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Glasgow Subject: A crumby tale of Liberal generosity [please feel free to distribute in whole or in part without obligation] So, our Liberal government is ready to play Mommy. It's nearly Christmas and Mommy's offering us a few crumbs from the cookie jar. We've been working so hard that we have lots of cookies. People have been filling our lunch boxes with coolies for cutting their grass, delivering their papers and taking out their garbage. But Mommy's been taking half of them to put in the cookie jar. She says that it's for our own good and that we'll get other goodies in return... someday. We think, "OK, we'd only trade them for things we don't really need anyway". "But wouldn't a new bike be nice?" Dad says that he caught Mommy with her hand in the cookie jar. She says it isn't true. She says that some other kids came over to cut our grass and must have took some after she invited them into the kitchen for cookies and soda. Geez! I already cut the grass and I don't get anything for it. And soda!?. Heck, I'm not even allowed in the kitchen! What's going on? Now that I think about it, Mom always seems to have a few cookie crumbs around her mouth. And she's put on quite a bit of weight. She's also been buying a lot of clothes and perfume and stuff lately. Dad says she can afford it becaUse she's been giving away our cookies. With all that's been going on lately, people have started asking me who I'd rather choose, Mom or Dad. Some say that I have it pretty good - now that Mom has started giving out a few more cookie crumbs. I guess I'd sort of have to forget about all the strange things she's been up to. Others say that I can't trust either of them and that I should think about staying with my Mom's brothers, my uncles Jack and Gilles. Trouble is, Uncle Jack told me he wants more of my cookies to hand out to other kids who don't want to cut grass or take out the garbage. Same goes for Uncle Gilles. Plus, Uncle Gilles swears that if he doesn't get what he wants he'll take half the cookies and leave. Dad, on the other hand, always said that he'd take fewer cookies out of my lunch box for the cookie jar. Mostly, he promised never to give any of them to strangers. ====================== Barry Glasgow RR#2, Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:02:55 -0600 (CST) From: Bill Subject: Lawyers DRGJ wrote "What do you call a hundred lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start! - - -DRGJ" Hey!! It seems No one likes lawyer jokes!! Lawyers don't think their funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes ;=) Bill... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:02:24 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Lawyers - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" > DRGJ wrote "What do you call a hundred lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? > A good start! > - -DRGJ" > > Hey!! It seems No one likes lawyer jokes!! > Lawyers don't think their funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes ;=) > > Bill... I beg to differ - most lawyers I know know and tell lots of lawyer jokes and arent offended. How can they be ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:24:13 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: BREITKREUZ MOTION FOR 12(6.1) HANDGUNS DEFEATED On Tuesday, November 15, 2005, the two Bloc MPs voted with the four Liberals to defeat Garry Breitkreuz's motion supporting the law-abiding owners of 12(6.1) handguns. NDP Joe Comartin voted with the Conservative MPs in support of Garry's motion. The full transcript of today's Justice Committee debate will be posted on Garry's website as soon as it becomes available. October 27, 2005 - BREITKREUZ'S SECOND MOTION TO JUSTICE COMMITTEE ON 12(6.1) HANDGUNS http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/inthehouse/misc/2005_ltr_oct27.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:24:41 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Why a Drop in "Gun Deaths" Cannot Justify the Gun Registry NOVEMBER 2005 - FRASER FORUM: Why a Drop in "Gun Deaths" Cannot Justify the Gun Registry by Gary Mauser, PhD, Professor at Simon Fraser University. Gun laws are supposed to stop gun misuse, so an obvious measure of success would be a drop in "gun deaths." But, it is false to imagine that fewer "gun deaths" means that any lives have been saved. [READ MORE] http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/chapterfiles/Nov05ffmauser.pdf # SEPTEMBER 2005 - FRASER FORUM: Suicides and the "Gun Deaths" Fraud by Gary Mauser, PhD, Professor at Simon Fraser University. http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/chapterfiles/Sept05ffmauser.pd f# ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:25:32 -0600 (CST) From: freefallcrusader Subject: Re: Gun registry poll... At 1:57 am PT - November 15, 2005, the results were 80% yes and 20% no. Seems the folks in Toronto may have gotten to the poll though earlier today, with their confused mindset that it's okay to have criminals who kill and steal but it's not okay for us law-abiders to enjoy our sports. The poll is still active as I write, so if you haven't voted yet, go to: http://www.canada.com/vancouver/theprovince/index.html Is it time for Ottawa to scrap the national gun registry? 66.74 % - Yes 33.26 % - No (results at 9:21 am PT November 15, 2005) Is it time for Ottawa to scrap the national gun registry? 78.84 % - Yes 21.16 % - No (results at 2:15 pm PT November 15, 2005) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:30:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Cop gets wrist slap for his part in stakeout http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=ec8062ec- 8479-461f-af39-c124cb851c2a Cop gets wrist slap for his part in stakeout Officer didn't target city journalist, internal police hearing finds Charles Rusnell The Edmonton Journal Tuesday, November 15, 2005 EDMONTON - A senior Edmonton police officer received a minor reprimand Monday for his role in the Overtime drunk-driving stakeout that targeted a newspaper columnist. Staff Sgt. Bill Newton was found guilty of insubordination for improperly accessing the personal information of Sun columnist Kerry Diotte in a restricted police database. But the presiding officer at the internal disciplinary hearing, RCMP Assistant Commissioner Ian Atkins, said there was insufficient evidence to find Newton guilty on the much more serious charge that he unlawfully exercised his authority to target Diotte. Atkins characterized Newton's breach on the privacy issue as "technical." He accepted the submissions of police department lawyer Don Wilson and Newton's lawyer, Mona Duckett, that Newton had an exemplary service record and that he should receive the minimum sanction -- a written reprimand. Wilson said he will find out later this week if the police department intends to appeal the ruling. Outside the hearing, Newton said he had learned from the process. "Discipline within the EPS is a learning process. We're not talking about the criminal courts here. We all come away at the end of the day having learned something and we move on, and today we learned a great deal about the public's acceptance of our access to information." Diotte and former police commission chairman Martin Ignasiak were targeted in a drunk-driving stakeout at the Overtime Taproom and Grill on Nov. 18, 2004. They were attending a social function sponsored by the Canadian Association of Journalists. Both men took taxis home. Newton testified that he did not direct his officers to target Diotte. He said he told the officers that if they saw Diotte's vehicle leaving a bar and he was driving, they should stop him and he see if he had been drinking. It was the officers who took it upon themselves to call in a surveillance team, including plainclothes officers, and conduct a surveillance operation that went on for several hours. While Atkins said he found insufficient evidence, based on the balance of probabilities, that Newton had ordered the targeting of Diotte, he questioned the appropriateness of the stakeout. "As a senior police manager I would not have authorized such an elaborate expenditure of scarce patrol resources for such an activity," Atkins said in his written judgment. "In fact, I would expect a reasonably informed member of the public would be outraged at such use." Atkins questioned why a surveillance unit would be necessary. "I found that the decision itself to employ static surveillance for four to five hours perplexing and troublesome and an inefficient and ineffective utilization of police resources," Atkins said. "What other high-risk driving activities around the city were missed during that surveillance time?" Newton's interest in Diotte started in April 2004 when the columnist published a column about photo radar that Newton thought was misleading. He said he ran Diotte's name through police computers in the hope of finding some information, such as a traffic conviction, that could be used for a media relations strategy to counter Diotte's columns. But he found nothing. Newton testified he got a tip from a journalist in May 2004 that Diotte had a well-known propensity to drink and drive. Based on this information, Newton issued a bulletin to all officers to be on the lookout for Diotte and reissued that warning to his officers in November. But when questioned about his journalist tipster, Newton testified that he took no notes of their conversation, produced no memos and could not remember the gender of the journalist. Newton said he didn't want to discuss the possible gender of the journalist because he or she may be a confidential informant. In his ruling, Atkins said the police department had the right to know, and could have found out, who the informant was. "I was troubled by the evidence," Atkins told reporters after the hearing. "It was unclear whether in fact Staff Sgt. Newton -- and I think I reflected this in my decision -- could not recall the gender of the informant or whether by disclosing the gender of the informant it would have somehow led to the identification of the informant. "I was left with the evidence I had," Atkins said. The legal proceedings related to the Overtime matter are far from over. The Law Enforcement Review Board will hold a hearing sometime next year based on a complaint from the Criminal Trial Lawyers' Association. Lawyer Tom Engel, a member of the association, saw some irony in Newton's successful defence against his most serious charge of unlawful exercise of authority. He pointed out that former chief Fred Rayner found none of the officers directly involved in the Overtime incident had exercised unlawful authority in targeting Diotte and Ignasiak because they were simply following orders. But Newton's defence was that the officers mounted the surveillance operation of their own accord. "Which was it? I guess we will find out during the LERB hearing," Engel said. Diotte has also sued the police department for $1.5 million. Discovery in those proceedings is to begin in December. Diotte declined to comment on Monday, but his lawyer, Norm Pollock, said the outcome of the hearing was irrelevant. "We believe the police will be held accountable in the civil action," Pollock said. The hearing for another officer charged in the Overtime matter, Const. Jim Smyth, begins this morning. Smyth is charged with using inappropriate language on a police radio. crusnell@thejournal.canwest.com © The Edmonton Journal 2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:30:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Martin adviser under attack over $8,000 of sponsorship money http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=1fa31b63- 1ecd-4237-81df-11455aac9ff3 Martin adviser under attack over $8,000 of sponsorship money ELIZABETH THOMPSON The Gazette Tuesday, November 15, 2005 One of Prime Minister Paul Martin's top advisers came under attack yesterday when deputy Conservative leader Peter MacKay said $8,000 from the scandal-plagued federal sponsorship program was used to pay election expenses for Helene Chalifour-Scherrer. "Her reward for being a losing Liberal candidate was that she was entitled to one of the highest paid positions in the PMO (Prime Minister's Office)," MacKay told the House of Commons during question period. "Why is Madame Scherrer still in this position in the Prime Minister's Office? When will the Prime Minister take action to punish those who used dirty money to win elections in Canada?" However, Chalifour-Scherrer, who now serves as principal secretary to Martin, denied all knowledge of the payment. "I never received money from anybody during any of my campaigns and (Justice) Gomery doesn't talk about it either in his report," she said. The controversy centres on testimony last spring at Justice John Gomery's inquiry into the sponsorship program from Michel Beliveau, a former director general of the Liberal Party of Canada's Quebec wing. In his testimony, Beliveau recounted how $8,000 of the money he got from Jacques Corriveau was used to pay a businessman who had provided services for the 1997 campaign in Scherrer's Quebec City riding of Louis-Hebert. The businessman visited Beliveau in Montreal to complain that Scherrer's campaign organizers had not paid him. However, Scherrer knew nothing of the deal, Beliveau added. "I need to point out, and it's very important, very important, and that is that Ms. Scherrer - I never told her that this had been arranged." In his fact-finding report, Gomery questioned Beliveau's testimony, suggesting he did not tell everything that he knew, but did not call into question his testimony concerning the payment for services provided to Scherrer's campaign. In his report, Gomery found that Corriveau had been at the centre of an elaborate kickback scheme that saw money from the sponsorship program funnelled into the coffers of the Liberal Party. Regardless of whether or not Scherrer personally knew about the payment, cash from the sponsorship program was used to pay for her election campaign, Mac-Kay said, adding if she was a Conservative she wouldn't be employed in the leader's office. "I think that there should be accountability for people who did this, for people who used dirty money to fund their campaigns. I think somebody should be made an example, somebody should be investigated, somebody should be arrested if it was illegal." However, Scherrer can't be prosecuted for any possible election financing violations because the period in which charges can be laid has expired, MacKay acknowledged. Steve MacKinnon, national director of the Liberal Party, defended Scherrer. "It is pretty clear and a matter of public record that Madame Scherrer was unaware of that, and if it, indeed, was money that Beliveau allegedly passed on, then we have repaid that sum in full." Nor is there any question of blocking Scherrer from once again running for the Liberal Party in Louis-Hebert, he said. "She's a woman of incredible integrity and will serve that riding well." ethompson@thegazette.canwest.com © The Gazette (Montreal) 2005 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:31:04 -0600 (CST) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Gun registry poll... POLL Is it time for Ottawa to scrap the national gun registry? 82.45 % Yes 17.55 % No at 7:25 pm Eastern ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:42:29 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Hill" Subject: A little Humour Bruce, This was sent to me by a friend for a laugh. I was particularly struck by the second one and wondered how long you would be detained if you were to give that answer? Anyway a little humour for the Digest, should you deem it appropriate. Jim Hill Fletchers Lake, N.S. Always keep several get well cards on the mantel. If unexpected guests arrive, they'll think you've been sick and unable to clean. When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, "What do you need?" NASA reports that galaxies are speeding away from earth at 90,000 miles a second. What do you suppose they know that we don't? I asked my mailman why my letters were all wet... he said "postage dew". Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up. The only thing that wakes you up faster than coffee is spilled coffee. A good time to keep your mouth shut is when you're in deep water. Odd that when a house burns down, the only things left standing are the chimney and the fireplace. Only in America do we shop at places with limited parking, overpriced items, and long lines and insultingly, call them convenience stores. We"re going to have a terrorist attack, but we don't know where or when. I think you could say the same thing about tornadoes. I went to see Pavarotti once and I'll tell you this much, he doesn't like it when you join in. How dangerous could a fax be, if the pen is mightier than the sword and a picture is worth a thousand words. A perfect summer day is when the sun is shining, the breeze is blowing, the birds are singing and the lawn mower is broken. There are two types of roads in our country. One is under construction and the other is under repair. The president has said that inflation has been arrested. He should check . . . I think it's out on bail. The next time you pay your property taxes, remember every local politician who went to Hawaii on your dime. You know times are tough when the school system is recruiting school bus drivers in the lobby of traffic court. Yesterday is experience, tomorrow is hope, today is getting from one to the other. When life seems like an uphill climb, take comfort in the fact that you're mooning everyone behind you. People with true character show it when nobody else is present. Anything worth taking seriously is worth making fun of. When you get older, lack of pep is often mistaken for patience. What will today's younger generation tell their children they had to do "without"? The one item you want is never the one on sale. Gas now costs more than milk! As a child, I was the kind my mother wouldn't let me play with. If you're doing the speed limit, you're in the way. People never grow up; they just learn how to act in public. No matter how bad it gets, I'm rich at the dollar store. My country invaded Iraq, and all I got was this expensive gasoline.... You've got to spend money to lose money. Hermits have no peer pressure Never trust a story that has been told more than twice. It could be worse: there could be 35 teachers for every student. A promise is a debt. It is not the lofty sails but the unseen wind that moves the ship. A clean tie attracts the soup of the day. If something is confidential, it will be left in the copier machine. Ditch the driving test for an I.Q. test. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:17:43 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Liberals' policy change linked to gun survey: PUBLICATION: National Post DATE: 2005.11.16 EDITION: All but Toronto SECTION: Canada PAGE: A5 BYLINE: Janice Tibbetts SOURCE: CanWest News Service DATELINE: OTTAWACRIME ILLUSTRATION: Black & White Photo: Sergio Moraes, Reuters / Critics saymandatory sentencing for gun crimes are not the answer, and worry the Liberals are considering them for political reasons. WORD COUNT: 515 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Liberals' policy change linked to gun survey: 'Political expediency' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OTTAWA - The federal government's pledge to impose automatic jail terms for gun crimes comes in the wake of a survey conducted for the Justice Department indicating that a strong majority of Canadians favour minimum mandatory sentences for certain weapons offences. The survey, conducted last March by Decima Research, showed as many as 82% of Canadians think people who use guns to commit crimes should go to jail. Justice Minister Irwin Cotler, who previously balked at minimum mandatory jail terms, said last week he wanted to introduce Criminal Code changes as soon as possible. His about-face on minimum sentences -- which came with an admission he is not convinced that automatic jail terms work -- has sparked accusations that the Liberals are using mandatory sentences for political gain as they try to appeal to law-and-order-minded voters heading into a federal election. Mr. Cotler balked at implementing automatic jail terms in the past because he said they eliminate flexibility for judges to impose the sentences they see fit. "It all points to political expediency, unfortunately," said Neil Boyd, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. University of Toronto criminologist Anthony Doob said the Liberal plan would do more harm than good because studies have repeatedly shown that minimum mandatory sentences do not deter crime. "It's worse than useless because if this is a real problem, and gun crimes clearly are a real problem, what it does is distracts people and makes them feel that the problem is addressed," Mr. Doob said. "It's like saying you're going to address cancer by telling people to eat leafy vegetables. It's not going to solve your cancer, but if [you] believe that it will, then maybe you don't do other kinds of treatment." The Liberals, under pressure from several provinces, particularly Ontario, say they want to propose new minimum penalties for firearms smuggling, trafficking and illegal possession of handguns in a public place. Minimum sentences are rare in Canada, existing only for murder and several crimes involving firearms. The Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, an advocacy group for women prisoners, wrote Mr. Cotler last week reminding him that several U.S. jurisdictions are backing away from minimum mandatory sentences because they have failed. A crackdown on gun violence vaulted onto the Liberal agenda this summer, when violence on Toronto streets began to make Liberal MPs in the party's long-time stronghold nervous that Prime Minister Paul Martin's fragile minority government was not doing enough. The Justice Department survey is also fodder for the Liberal plan. The polling firm found that an overwhelming majority of Canadians support minimum mandatory jail terms for two gun crimes: robbery with a firearm and criminal negligence causing death with a firearm. Support for mandatory jail terms for robbery with a firearm was as high as 82%, compared with 14% who opposed the prospect. Support was higher among a group of respondents who were asked the question after hearing about an anecdotal case of robbery with a firearm. Conditional sentences are only available to offenders sentenced to less than two years for a crime that does not carry a minimum mandatory sentence. The survey of 2,343 Canadians has a margin of error of plus or minus two percentage points, 95% of the time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:17:56 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Online Poll PUBLICATION: The Province DATE: 2005.11.16 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial PAGE: A21 SOURCE: The Province WORD COUNT: 33 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Online Poll - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wednesday's question: Do you agree with the tax cuts promised by the federal Liberals? Results in Thursday's Province Tuesday's question: Is it time for Ottawa to scrap the national gun registry? Yes: 82% No: 18% ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #634 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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