From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #689 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, November 28 2005 Volume 08 : Number 689 In this issue: RE: Help needed to convert the skeptics!! Research my letter to to the Toronto Sun Bono 'crushed' by PM's failure on foreign aid Travelling has become hazardous re: Ontario gets 1,000 police officers: 'These are not new... Letter to Globe and Mail (unpub) ... CFD 688 Tomlinson New Police officers Le Soleil Column: Cows... CONSERVATIVE PARTY POLICY DECLARATION - MARCH 19, 2005 Commons Justice Committee Approves Bill C-215 Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #686 Re: my letter to to the Toronto Sun ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:18:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: RE: Help needed to convert the skeptics!! Shari, Obtain a copy of "Freakonomics" by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner Frekonomics Harper Collins 2005 ISBN 0-06-073132-X Chapter 4 (where have all the criminals gone) explains the crime rate dropping in the US through the 1990s by various factors. Specific sections dealing with (PP 130-134) Gun laws ... see also: PP 220-221 (citations). "More guns/less crime" might be a red herring ... though we might like to believe otherwise ... Levitt seems to hold water, and Roe V. Wade might have had more influence than CCW. Particularly noteworthy is the section on: Swimming Pools 100 times more dangerous to children than firearms. This book is not particularly PRO firearm, but it does seem fairly well balanced -- which is all one can really ask for in a subject area fraught with "made up statistics". Hope this helps ... Cheers, Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:33:19 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Thacker" Subject: Research Although I am not able to provide you with the stats you ask I do want to provide you with some problems methodologically speaking re the comparison she is attempting. The question posed is "Are there differences between Gerogia and Toronto in regards to crime." And presumably, if there are it is a function of the more liberal gun laws in the US...no matter which is higher. This is like comparing apples and oranges. Suppose for example you find that Atlanta has a higher rate of crime than Toronto. Is this a function of their more liberal gun laws.... in fact what are the gun laws in Atlanta......... as both federal and state have some level of jurisdiction over gun laws it could be that the laws there are even more restrictive... or at least as restrictive as Canada. Or is it higher because in the past few months a bunch of the bad guys from New Orleans have moved to Atlanta and have taken up their crime sprees there. An interesting aside here is that if you were to compare Toronto with New Orleans (whitch a few months ago was one of the highest crime rate cities in America)..... as New Orleans is presently, and has been for the past few months New Orleans would beat Toronto hands down........... because even thought there are lots of people back living there most of the bad guyys have left to find greener pastures......Some going to Atlanta....... So when comparing two different cities, even in Canada there are a lot of factors such as poverty level, gang predominance, demographics etc that may be the cause of the higher or lower crime rate. Now if you can find a good study then the researchers may have partialled out the variance accounted for by theese other factors and the only difference is the right to bear arms but I doubt that is true........ What she needs to do is look at the two places over time. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges............ Look at Toronto over time (apples to apples) ..compared to some town in Michigan or some town in Florida (apples to apples).. What has been the trend in each city and what has gone on to have perhaps led to the change..apples and oranges, but the important comparison is within the same city ... Lets look at crime stats for violent crime each year say from 1990 to 2005 ....and indicate when the C-68 legislation took effect.........according to the powers that be violent crime should have dropped off after that legislation. So in Toronto Has there been sufficient drops in violent crime since the inception of C-68, the registration of firearms act. During the same time period in Florida and/or Michigan what happened ...see when the CCW law was enacted in each state...... were there drops or increases when the CCW letislation in those states was brought in..... (CCW is the right of a citizen to carry a concealed weapon and I bet the teacher would say it led to higher violent crime......when it likely led to lower viloent crime). So by looking at the trend in Toronto and during the same period looking at the trend in Florida (or Michigan) for example what is the trend........ and what has been going on during that time.......... thenyou can say that it is likely that because crime kept climbing in toronto it is unlikely that C-68 had aby impact and if during the same time crime went down in Michigan and during that time the right to carry was legislated............then it is more likely the CCW caused that........note I say more likely as you are never 100 percent sure Also look over time at Australia and Britian.......what happened before and after the incredible restrictions imposted on firearms (they were banned outright) did crime go up or down..... Look at the crime rate and gun ownership rate in Switzerland and ownership is highest and cirme is likely the lowesst what does that prove................. As a professor I do tend to ramble on and I may be confusing her and you by all this but if you want to discuss this further or she needs any speicfic help re the methodology tell her to contact me. But as I said earlier the idea that crime rate in Toronto vs Crime Rate in Atlanta and making any conclusion about attitude via gun rights is almost impossible...... I hav attached a few articles that may help her in some way....... James W Thacker Professor Odette School of Business University of Windsor Windsor Ont ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:34:26 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: my letter to to the Toronto Sun Kudos for Wendy Cukier, December must be right around the corner. On the 6th the grief industry will once again trot out the tragic tail of Gamil Ghardi's (AKA Mark Lepine) rampage at a Montreal University. This is the foundation of Cukier's fame and infamy. Traction for her anti-gun policies stem from this offence along with the collusion of former Minister of Justice Alan Rock, the same who came to Ottawa with "the firm belief that only the police and military should have firearms." Cukier helped sell gun control based on either misleading or flawed stastics and biased public opinion polls. Every statement ever since on the effectiveness of the gun laws are skewed by the same spirit of misdirection. Cukier is an important cog shilling the firearm registry myth. Not unlike the Liberals themselves who ingratiate themselves with the gullible public with grand promises that never see fruition. The Mini 14 is still legally, readable available. Some sections of Toronto are awash in the blood of young black men in what should be categorized for what it is, acts of terrorism. Another university slaughter could happen tomorrow. $2 billion dollars of public money is gone. If capitalizing on the blood of young university women to sell a flawed policy is something to celebrate, as the Sun seems to believe, then this country is in bigger trouble than I thought. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumpsit Contract - All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:42:03 -0600 (CST) From: Bill Subject: Bono 'crushed' by PM's failure on foreign aid MrEd Said"He wouldbe more believable if he touted for the 20% of Canadian children living in poverty!To rehash a well worn phrase? "Charity begins at home | ". ed/iontario" Gee Didn't the liberals make 'this very thing' a plank in a previous election? I believe they said they were going to 'eliminate' child poverty in Canada with-in ten years.. Ahh but I guess it's my fault for misunderstanding! They never mentioned 'which' ten years... Maybe it will be the 'next' ten years, or maybe the ten years after that.. I guess we'll never know, unless of course, the urban moron keeps voting liberal, and the poor trusting Mr.Bono gets 'crushed' again by the liberal lies 'we' as Canadians are finally ignoring.. Bill... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:16:13 -0600 (CST) From: Len Miller Subject: Travelling has become hazardous Editor Travelling has become hazardous . . to the passengers . . The sun Sir, The Star-Phoenix (Saskatoon) reports "travellers still packing 'forbidden' objects . . .. Security officers discouraged (that) people (are) still not getting message" Dear readers, it is the Travel Nazis (CATSA-ACTSA-NOTARY SOJAC-LSMFT) who are not getting the message. 9/11 did not occur in Canada, NO Canadians were involved . . It was Bush League all the way . . . It was organized by PNAC to have another Pearl Harbour! It was permitted, allowed, arranged, caused, to happen. Each and every suspect was a Saudi, for which Saddam Hussein has taken the fall, and the real Saudi . . Bin Laden has been forgotten. It was a casus belli . . the reason for war . . . (any lie will do) NO veterans, travelling to a RCAF 2 (F) Wing reunion, were involved. folding scissors such as in first aid kits were not used, why? not dangerous No grandmother, going to Saskatoon to visit her grandchildren and being purse stripped, shoes removed, in public , was involved with the Trade Towers organized event. Granny can't finish the warm bootees and knitted hat for the latest grandchild, on a flight . . . Finally, the terror fomenters suggest to take only what's needed on the flight ! ! ! They need no more proof than: No flight has been hi-jacked SINCE by a knitting needle wielding grannie . . . or before, oops . . . Papers please , Und, Vy are you going to Saskatoon , Trenton, anywhere ? Len Miller Veteran ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:16:39 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: re: Ontario gets 1,000 police officers: 'These are not new... > > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:30:41 -0600 (CST) > From: Dave Tomlinson > > Smoke and mirrors... write a letter to the editor to complain about > this... call a talk show to complain about this... > Ummm ... are you talking to me? Dave, did you mean that all the readers of the CFD should write a letter, or was this just a memo to the numerous NFA staff, who are supposed to represent Canadian firearms owners, to write a letter on our behalf -- on NFA masthead, and it just leaked out onto the digest by mistake? Surely that must be the case ... > Our federal Liberal government and Ontario's provincial Liberal government > have both failed us. Their ideas have resulted in rapidly-increasing > violent crime. Thanks for the update. I would never have guessed. However it seems that the government are not the only ones to have let us down. By the way, have you seen what CSSA/CILA is up to lately -- they have started a CLASS ACTION suit against the government on behalf of ALL 12(x) owners getting screwed out of their property. Moreover, it seems that they will have obtained an injunction preventing the immediate loss of property. Have you offered them any financial assistance? Have you offered any verbal encouragement? Congratulated them perhaps? So, what other useful stuff is the NFA doing these days, other than urging us to write letters in our own name? I suggest that it is good from time to time to refer to those immortal words, "Lead, follow or just get the fuck out of the way!" Thanks for the suggestion, though Dave. I'll get right on that letter! ... any minute now ... Cheers, Rob Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:19:17 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Letter to Globe and Mail (unpub) ... Liberals miffed by Ignatieff's candidacy ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Michael Ignatieff is a star, there can be no doubt of that. Bright, articulate and well connected he could bring much to the Liberal party that they are so sadly lacking. Funny though that while he was "acclaimed" in his brand new riding, and surely a sweet patronage plumb awaits MP Jean Augustine for graciously stepping aside, there are a number of allegations of a "fix" -- even from within the Liberal party. Surely, given that Prime Minister Martin has given assurances that addressing the "democratic deficit" was his top priority, one might be a little surprised that anyone could cast doubts upon the Liberal party's own nomination procedures. It appears that a number of issues are "top priority" for Mr. Martin. Just for fun, I Googled "Paul Martin top priority", and came up with 5,760,000 hits. Sampling the first page only, I compiled the following list of top priorities: Tax cuts, Health care (three times) National security and military, and Human rights. Quite laudable, but as the "Democratic deficit" does not appear in the first page, it must have been already addressed, and therefore completely eliminated as a problem, and thus it no longer need be termed a "top priority". If anyone has further concerns about the democratic deficit, please just make them known to Mr. Martin, and I'm sure he will make that a "top priority". Oh, and welcome aboard Michael. Now lets see about that cabinet spot, somewhere between Belinda and Ken Dryden, hmmm ... don't worry, we'll get it right, after all, it is a "top priority". Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk Oshawa, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:19:33 -0600 (CST) From: AOB Subject: CFD 688 Tomlinson New Police officers > From: Dave Tomlinson > Subject: Ontario gets 1,000 police officers: 'These are not new... Just like your NFA's claim of rapidly growing membership, just the same old smoke and mirrors you use Dave just the same as you & Hinter failed the NFA members, No wonder you have empathy with liberal tactics. AW Parsons Ex long time NFA #4882s "FREEDOM" For those who Fought, Bled and Died For It " FREEDOM " has a FLAVOR THE PROTECTED will Never Know or Savor. Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:45:09 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Le Soleil Column: Cows... TRANSLATION FROM FRENCH TO ENGLISH PUBLICATION: Le Soleil DATE: 2005.11.26 SECTION: Sports PAGE:S7 COLUMN: Hunting and Fishing BYLINE: Bellemare, André-A. WORD COUNT: 1087 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Cows... - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Under the Access to Information Act, Conservative MP Garry Breitkreuz learned that the government of the Liberal Party of Canada has spent $527 million since 1995 to pay the private computer companies that provided their services to register just over six million firearms. That means it cost close to $100 to register each firearm, even though the crime and violence committed with such weapons are still occurring in Canada. During this time, the government of the Liberal Party of Canada registered 40 million cows at a cost of $8 million, or $0.25 per cow. So it cost 400 times more to register a gun or rifle than a cow. For the last ten years or so, the millions of hunters in Canada have been the real cash cows for the computer companies friendly with the Liberal Party of Canada! Theft large and small With respect to the ridiculous and useless firearms registry system, MP Breitkreuz said it "is starting to make the sponsorship scandal look like a corner store robbery compared to a bank heist." The Gomery Commission was created to shed light on the tens of millions of dollars wasted under the federal sponsorship program. All the while, the Liberal Party of Canada is sweeping under the carpet the more than one billion dollars wasted on the registry of hunters' firearms. People tried in vain to get rid of the Liberals. But soon the millions of hunters in Canada will have the opportunity to strike a nasty blow to the Liberal Party of Canada. Changes to the Criminal Code Yesterday afternoon in the House of Commons, in a desperate attempt to convince people that the Liberal Party of Canada is truly addressing the crimes and violence committed with firearms, Minister of Justice and Attorney General Irwin Cotler introduced 12 amendments to the Criminal Code relating to the possession and use of firearms. The federal government says it wants to increase the minimum sentences imposed on offenders for firearms smuggling, trafficking and illegal possession of unregistered restricted weapons, and for the illegal possession of loaded handguns in public places. Two new offences will be created: break and enter to steal a firearm and robbery where a firearm has been stolen. The bill would also increase the number of cases in which the courts could issue prohibition orders on the possession of firearms, restrict parole and facilitate witness testimony. What the Liberal Party of Canada proposed yesterday before it was run out of the House of Commons is something that hunters suggested long before 1995, that is, long before the ridiculous and costly registry system was created for guns and hunting rifles! If Ottawa had simply listened to hunters instead of bowing to pressure to eliminate the possession and use of firearms in the country, it would not have thrown away close to $2 billion on what has become the firearms registry process. That means of course that some of those opposed to Canadians owning guns and hunting rifles would not have reaped hundreds of thousands of dollars travelling the country to promote the firearms registry, which has been happening since 1995! IN MY BASKET 25,362 moose already On Tuesday, the Quebec ministry of natural resources and wildlife(MRNF) published its latest figures on the moose hunt this year: 25,362 moose, including 12,108 adult males and 13,254 adult females and calves (9,531 females and 3,723 calves). In 2005, with the "liberal" moose hunting regulations - males and females of any age may be shot - , adult females and calves account for 52.25% of the harvest, which many consider too high. There is a reason why the moose harvest in 2005 sets a record in Quebec. There will be hundreds more moose killed, once all the records of animals killed are turned in by the private outfitters accredited by the MRNF to register them. Of course it is impossible to know exactly how many moose were shot illegally by poachers and unregistered hunters. It is still not known exactly how many moose hunting licenses were sold in 2005 in Quebec in each provincial hunting zone. Nor is it known how many moose there are in all of Quebec - 80,000, 100,000, 125,000 or more? - or in each zone. 50,200 stag registered As of Tuesday, the outfitters accredited by the MRNF to register the large game harvested by hunters reported that 50,200 stag had been shot, including 28,965 adult males and 21,235 females and calves (14,345 does and 6,890 fawns); the does and fawn account for 42.3% of this year's harvest thus far. There are still thousands of records for stags killed to be received and compiled by the MRNF. But it can no longer be claimed that last year's all-time record for stags harvested will be surpassed: 67,692 stags registered by close to 150,000 dear hunters. The dear of Anticosti As of Tuesday, dear hunters visiting Anticosti Island had killed 6,251 Menier cervids, including 2,967 males, 2,300 does and 984 fawns. The does and fawns represent 52.5 % of the harvest thus far. But there is still almost a month of big game hunting left on the island. In 2004, 8,469 Menier dear were killed on the island, including 4,328 males, 2,781 does and 1,360 fawns. AABellemare@lesoleil.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:00:05 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: CONSERVATIVE PARTY POLICY DECLARATION - MARCH 19, 2005 CONSERVATIVE PARTY POLICY DECLARATION - MARCH 19, 2005 http://www.conservative-cfc.ca/20050319-policy-declaration.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:00:47 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: Commons Justice Committee Approves Bill C-215 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Attn: News Editors Commons Justice Committee Approves Bill C-215 Kramp private members bill to strengthen federal gun laws November 28, 2005 OTTAWA - The House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice, Human Rights, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness passed Bill C-215, standing in the name of Daryl Kramp, MP Prince Edward-Hastings, earlier this afternoon. The bill would introduce mandatory minimum prison sentences on violent gun offences. "I commend the Justice committee on their decision to support the mandatory minimum gun sentences outlined in this private members' bill," Kramp stated. "The one-year mandatory minimums currently in place are simply not strong enough to send a message of effective deterrence. I believe the provisions in this bill, if properly promoted, would reduce the disturbing increase of gun violence across Canada." The Liberal government has opposed Bill C-215 since it was introduced in October, 2004 and even removed two sitting Members of the committee who voted in favour of the Bill at second reading for today's vote. However the committee was able to pass the legislation with minor amendments. "While I am pleased to see this legislation successfully endorsed by the all-party committee, it is unfortunate that the prime minister did not accept the opposition's proposal to hold an election in February so this and other Bills could be passed," Kramp noted. "Moreover had the government not delayed C-215 at the committee stage, there would have been enough time to receive Senate approval and Royal Assent. It is quite obvious the Liberal government has no intention of increasing the penalties on violent gun offenders." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler tabled a bill last Friday which failed to increase most mandatory minimum sentences on indictable gun offences despite repeated calls to do so by the Canadian Professional Police Association and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police. - -30- For further information, please contact: Andrew Walasek Legislative Assistant MP Daryl Kramp 613.992.5321 www.darylkramp.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:01:06 -0600 (CST) From: "M.J. Ackermann" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #686 > > Bono is a waste of skin and rations - a pox on his house. Rick, I agree 100% It is sooo easy to be charitable with OTHER peoples' money! - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS Secretary, St. Mary's Shooters Association President, Guysborough County Horse and Pony Association Member All For Horses Association, Nova Scotia Equestrian Federation Box 13, 120 Cameron Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 My email: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca My Bio: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/mikeack/mikeack.htm SMSA URL: www.smsa.ca "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:01:31 -0600 (CST) From: jwdavies@uniserve.com Subject: Re: my letter to to the Toronto Sun Quoting paul chicoine : > > Kudos for Wendy Cukier, December must be right around the corner. On the > 6th > the grief industry will once again trot out the tragic tail of Gamil > Ghardi's (AKA Mark Lepine) rampage at a Montreal University. One can look for a long time without finding examples of Canada being on the leading edge of anything, yet here is an exception. The rise of Muslim extremist terror is well known after 9/11, but here we have a concrete example of the same type of atrocity, occuring years earlier, and in Canada. It is both reprehensible, and sadly characteristic of the appeasement mindset that the Lieberals have built an entire multi-billion dollar dysfunctional industry, the harassment of white male taxpayers on something so clearly an act of Islamic terror. That it is both cowardly and an utter waste of tax dollars is just the first of many sins. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #689 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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