From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #698 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, December 1 2005 Volume 08 : Number 698 In this issue: My letter to the National Post re: selective policing Re: My letter to Windsor Star Re: Is It Even Possible NDP Policy? Toronto Gun Problem on Election Agenda Letter to Editor Re: Is It Even Possible Fw: Is your head in the sand?/Letter to the Editor Re: NDP Policy? Editorial RE: Ali and COs RE: Tomlinsons Post AMNESTY NETS 245 FIREARMS OFAH Column: Real target in gun crime finally solved VETERAN MOUNTIE RUNNING IN SPRUCE GROVE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:59:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: My letter to the National Post Just submitted, not yet printed. Have you written a letter today? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mills To: Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: Re: Doctor takes aim at U.S. gun lobby Dr. Robert Kurtz proves the old adage that being an expert in one field does not make you an expert in other fields. His own arguments in favour of "suitably restrictive gun control laws" illustrates this. It is all but impossible for a law-abiding citizen to legally own a handgun in NYC, let alone carry it on their person in public. So, all of these people doing the shooting are, by definition, criminals. Someone who illegally buys guns in other jurisdictions and illegaly transport them to others are criminals. Someone who shoots at a cop is a criminal. Kurtz, Cukier, and their ilk just don't "get it". It's not the law abiding gun owners that need to be "curbed" - it's the criminals, stupid! And yet, they continue to try and force their useless and draconian ideas on those who are not, and never have been, "the problem"! The so-called "Assault Weapon Ban" didn't actually ban any new "assault weapons" - it just banned certain combinations of cosmetic features, none of which have anything to do with the way the firearm operates. The Lawful Commerce in Arms Act protects legitimate firearms manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits by the anti-gun lobbyists, intent on draining their bank accounts. This is how the gun grabbers operate - death by a thousand cuts. Far from "relaxing" their gun laws, the United States has strengthened them by protecting the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms. At the same time, they have laws that harshly punish the illegal use of firearms, like Florida's 10-20-Life legislation. Combined with "Shall Issue" concealed carry firearms laws, they have experienced a drop in violent gun crimes of 30% since 1998. I don't know who Steven Edwards is, but his anti-gun bias is quite apparent. Using such "codewords" like "small arms", "weapon of choice", "deluged", "awash", "harbour" all have one intent: to demonize firearms in the minds of your readers, and through them, all gun owners legitimate or otherwise. They prey on the irrational fear of guns in order to advance their agenda of eradicating the right to private ownership of firearms of the very citizens they profess to be protecting. Bruce Hamilton Ontario We don't need gun control, we need Liberal control - Kick The Rascals Out! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:59:33 -0600 (CST) From: Barry Snow Subject: re: selective policing What if police "cherry pick" which crimes to prosecute? They have already been cherry picking on cannabis offenses for over 30 years that I am aware of. I know several "criminals" not charged at the discretion of the cops for possession of small amounts of marijuana or hashish and I know several others with the official criminal record who possessed even smaller amounts of the same substances. Barry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:00:17 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: My letter to Windsor Star On 2005 Nov 29, at 10:38 PM, Joe wrote: > If we focus > on identifying and treating the cause(s) of mental illness, instead of > crassly vilifying whole communities, perhaps our society will improve. > The firearms community has a deep rich cultural history and heritage > in Canada > of which it is very proud. Good points, Joe. Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:00:37 -0600 (CST) From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Is It Even Possible On 2005 Nov 29, at 8:59 PM, avon brown wrote: > Is it possible for the Tories to scrap the Gun Law without a Majority? Good question, but difficult to answer. We certainly do know that it is not possible for the CPC to scrap the Firearms Act with the Liberals in power. If the CPC formed the government as a minority they would at least be able to starve the Firearms Act by not providing money. Our marching orders are clear: Work our buns off to get as many CPC candidates elected as possible. Sincerely, Eduardo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:01:06 -0600 (CST) From: Len Miller Subject: NDP Policy? Sirs, Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:21:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Dan Baron" Subject: NDP Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:28:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: Canadians need to know From: Dan Baron > Anyone have the NDP policy? Are there plans to get a question to Jack > Layton on national level? Time for all gun owners to go to the phone. > NDP Ottawa number 1-866-525-2555. Sadly, I feel that a vote for the NDP, except in ridings where it is certain they will win, is just a vote for the Lieberals, because it takes votes away from the Conservatives. I'm afraid that socialists are anti-gun as a matter of doctrine - it's difficult to steal someone's paycheck if they can shoot back at you. Bruce Hamilton The NDP don't have a gun policy . . Taking a hint from the one- eight-six-six number, I did call the NDP I got a bright young thing who quickly referred to another who recommended the NDP web-site Scrolling down . . . ? NOTHING . . Talk of smoke and mirrors . . no smoke ( except for crazy ciggies) and after reflection . . no mirrors Gun people would be absolutely bonkers to believe an NDP vote would do anything to deal with crime.. You would still lose your gun . . In a war, the first casualty is the truth . . . Len MIller Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:30:41 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Toronto Gun Problem on Election Agenda http://www.mojoradio.com/news/metro.cfm?cat=7428109912&rem=24923&red=801109 23aPBIny&wids=410&gi=1&gm=metro.cfm Toronto Gun Problem on Election Agenda Nov, 30 2005 - 7:40 AM TORONTO/640 TORONTO - NDP leader Jack Layton wants guns in Toronto dealt with by the next federal government. Layton told his supporters at his kick off in the Toronto-Danforth riding that there are far too many guns on the streets and the federal government should be working with the city resolve this. As for Paul Martin and Steven Harper, they're trading barbs over who loves Canada the most. Harper is also looking into reopening the gay marriage debate, which Martin is completely against. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:31:26 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: Letter to Editor Sent to National post. not yet printed: Re.: Doctor takes aim... (Nov 30, 2005) I have to point out a serious error in your article. In your article you state: "U.S. guns smuggled into Canada are blamed in large part for the surge in gun crime in Toronto, where there have been 49 deaths by shooting this year out of a total 72 slayings." Guns are blamed? Guns are inanimate objects. When will Canadians begin to focus on the criminals instead of the objects they use? The useless firearms registry is a prime example of our misdirected efforts. Creating a list of all the firearms owned by law abiding hunters and target shooters has not, and will never result in a reduction in street crime. Newspapers like yours would serve Canadians better if your language reflected the reality of street crime. Criminals are to blame for those 72 deaths, not firearms. Regards, Dave McNeil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:31:41 -0600 (CST) From: Dan Haggarty Subject: Re: Is It Even Possible At 12:00 PM 11/30/05, Edward Hudson wrote: >On 2005 Nov 29, at 8:59 PM, avon brown wrote: > >> Is it possible for the Tories to scrap the Gun Law without a Majority? > >Good question, but difficult to answer. >[...[ The CPC could neuter the Firearms Act by cancelling and/or amending various regulations and/or Orders-In-Council. (In the Firearms Act, "prescribed" means "(a) in the case of a form or the information to be included on a form, prescribed by the federal Minister, and (b) in any other case, prescribed by the regulations", and "regulations" means "regulations made by the Governor in Council under section 117". If you cancel all the forms and regulation, or make them useless, you rip out the guts of the Firearms Act. The Liberals didn't need parliamentary approval to enact them; the Conservatives wouldn't need parliament ary approval to cancel them.) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:59:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Chris Gilmore" Subject: Fw: Is your head in the sand?/Letter to the Editor Sent we will see if it makes print. CG - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Gilmore" To: "National Post" Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:45 AM Subject: Is your head in the sand?/Letter to the Editor > Your printing of the letter from the New York doctor and the statements in > it tend to show your bias. It also shows > that you have not yet come to the conclusion so evident > to people who think things through. Guns don't kill by > themselves, the person holding it does the killing. Focus > on the crime not the tool. Yes it is tragic to have people > killed needlessly but reality says the only way to stop > this from happening is to make the criminals decide it is > not worth it especially if it may cost them their own lives . Yes I am > talking about harsher penalties that cannot be bargained away by Judges and > Prosecutors. > > Thank you, > Chris Gilmore > Logan Lake BC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:36:04 -0600 (CST) From: jwdavies@uniserve.com Subject: Re: NDP Policy? They do, they are rabidly anti-gun although they try hard to avoid stating that because they are afraid of the price to be paid. The Reds, when in power in BC, supported every anti-gun Lieberal initiative to the max, while at the same time pretending to only do what they were forced to do...utter hyprocracy. Any gun owner who votes for these idiots is stabbing themselves in the back...the Reds don't want any guns in the hands of taxpayers. > The NDP don't have a gun policy . . > Taking a hint from the one- eight-six-six number, I did call the NDP > I got a bright young thing who quickly referred to another who > recommended the NDP web-site > Scrolling down . . . ? > NOTHING . . > Talk of smoke and mirrors . . no smoke ( except for crazy ciggies) and > after reflection . . no mirrors > Gun people would be absolutely bonkers to believe an NDP vote > would do anything to deal with crime.. > You would still lose your gun . . > In a war, the first casualty is the truth . . . > > Len MIller > Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:36:55 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: Editorial Linda I read your editorial about Ontario and the Liberals on the Canadian = Firearms Digest - BRAVO! I couldn't have said it better. It's about time we revamped our = out-of-date electoral system that allows Ontario to pre-determine the = outcome of an election with a smattering of votes from Quebec. As it = stands, the west might as well not vote, although some pundits think = that BC might actually influence the outcome this time. We've been tolerating this insanity since 1867. No other western = democratic society governs themselves this way federally, although we = still suffer under it provincially here in BC. How Stephen Harper and the CPC could be any more scary than = Cretin/Martoon and their gang of crooks beats the hell out of me. The = litany of Liberal scandals, boondoggles, mismanagement and criminal = misdeeds over the past 12 years must equal or surpass anything in our = history.=20 The east historically will simply not have a PM from the west. If that = attitude continues, I feel that the only answer is western separation = barring some new ground rules and a revamped electoral system. A CPC = minority government will only result ina return to the polls within two = years. It has never been easier for a criminal to obtain an illegal firearms = after squandering an estimated $2 billion on a useless Firearms = Registry. It was supposed to prevent another tragedy like L'Ecole = Polytechnique but the Mayerthorpe, Alberta shootings of the RCMP members = put the lie to that. Coupled with our revolving door criminal justice system, no wonder = Canada has become a haven for criminals while law-abiding citizens = endure ever increasing encroachments on their rights and freedoms. Todd Birch Quesnel, BC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:37:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Todd Birch" Subject: RE: Ali and COs Muhammed Ali claiming to be a CO because of his Muslim faith - it is to = laugh! He made a mockery of every black soldier serving in Viet Nam. He = wasn't likely to find his ass in a rice paddy carrying an M-16. His = title was rightly stripped from him. The military was good enough for Elvis and the Everley Brothers albeit = there was no shooting war at the time. Elvis was in Germany during the = Cold War which could have turned hot at any time. The Everleys were = Marines in a rifle company. At the same time as we were welcoming US draft dodgers, two of my = buddies took their leave of the Canadian Army and went to Viet Nam along = with many other Canadians. One didn't come back. I got to know a draft dodger and we had some good conversations. He was = a college grad with a degree in chemistry and could have served as a = officer. There was an underground network that helped him get out of the = US and find work in Canada and Australia. He told me that it didn't seem right to him that he should be imprisoned = for not wanting to fight in an illegal, undeclared war and that it would = be damned hard to protest or fight the war from prison. He claimed = willingness to fight and defend the US if attacked. We'll never know if = he was telling the truth. In hindsight, the US was denied the services of a young generation who = fled their country rather than serve in Viet Nam. I can't help thinking = that might have been a better choice than to be shipped home in body = bags in view of the ignominious defeat the US suffered with the fall of = Saigon. Post-Viet nam, they were no more successful in keeping the US out of = future situations than their predecessors as witnessed by the Gulf Wars = and Afghanistan. As in all major conflicts, the dirty work falls to those from = underprivileged groups who lack the wherewithal and knowledge to duck = military duties. This goes back as far as their Revolutionary and Civil = Wars, where servants and "substitutes" were openly sought for a cash = sum. US politics is rife with the sons of influential families that managed = to avoid service in Viet Nam or serve alternatively in some cushy = positions far from the fighting. Somethings never change. TB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:50:57 -0600 (CST) From: "Larry Neufeld" Subject: RE: Tomlinsons Post Dave come clean! So what do you do when you don't have a pit-bull to back you? Hide? >So Dave same logic "SILENCE" as the NFA refusing >to come clean on NFA Finances -Elections & Court >orders is leading to the lingering demise of the NFA. >AOB ex long time NFA member #4882s > >>Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:01:54 -0600 (CST) >>From: Dave Tomlinson >>Subject: SILENCE LED TO SLAYING: >> >>So: Come forward, and be shot? As this witness was? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:55:30 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: AMNESTY NETS 245 FIREARMS PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2005.12.01 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 27 BYLINE: IAN ROBERTSON, TORONTO SUN WORD COUNT: 233 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ AMNESTY NETS 245 FIREARMS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gun owners turned in 245 firearms -- including 33 handguns -- last month, nearly double the number brought in during a similar amnesty program in 2002. People dropped off the weapons at police stations across the city during November, Det.-Sgt. Gary Keys said yesterday. "And that was without offering any incentives," said Keys, the former head of the Guns and Gangs Task Force who is now boss of the Organized Crime Enforcement Unit. During the city's last gun amnesty month, held in 2002 with the offer of free tickets to Raptors' games, 112 firearms were surrendered. REGISTRY LED TO DUMPING The first such event, five years ago, resulted in almost 1,800 firearms of every type and description being turned over to police, but that was on the eve of the deadline for the new federal gun registry "and a lot of people just couldn't be bothered registering," Keys said. The 245 turned in by yesterday morning included 33 handguns and "the rest were shotguns and rifles," he said, plus some pellet guns and replicas. "People understand there is gun violence in the city," Keys said. "We're encouraged that people realize it's the right thing to do, to give up a gun they don't want any more." Many of the weapons being used by criminals, especially handguns, reach Toronto streets from burglaries of gun shops and collectors' homes across Canada. Unless guns are safely stored, Keys said, "they become susceptible to being crime guns. "We're not looking to take guns away from lawful owners," he said. "We want to keep them out of the hands of criminals, and if someone doesn't want one, giving it up to be destroyed disposes of it safely." Keys said he hopes the city will consider another amnesty month. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:56:06 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: OFAH Column: Real target in gun crime finally solved PUBLICATION: The Windsor Star DATE: 2005.12.01 EDITION: Final SECTION: Editorial/Opinion PAGE: A9 BYLINE: Greg Farrent SOURCE: Windsor Star ILLUSTRATION: Cartoon: Paul Lachine, Special to The Windsor Star / (Seehard copy for illustration) WORD COUNT: 430 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Real target in gun crime finally solved - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On behalf of the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, our 81,500 members and 630 member clubs across Ontario, including several outstanding clubs in the Windsor-Essex area, I am writing to congratulate the federal government for finally figuring out who the real target is when it comes to gun crime in Canada. The OFAH has always supported any reasonable initiative that would deal with the increase of gun related crimes on the streets of our communities that threatens the public safety. Unfortunately, the federal government's recently announced strategy to address the threat to public safety posed by the increase of gun crimes could have been adopted years ago, had they not been so intent on pouring hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars into the ill-fated firearms registry for long guns and portraying legal, law-abiding firearms owners as the bad guys. To date, the cost of the firearms registry is rapidly approaching the $2-billion mark, a mere 500 per cent cost overrun for a system that - according to the government's estimates - would cost taxpayers no more than $20 million. For years, we have urged the government to put the money they were pouring into the black hole known as the long gun registry to better use by increasing border security; providing more funding for police officers; introducing mandatory stiff sentences for the use of a gun to commit a crime; and eliminating plea bargains in cases involving gun crime. Instead of listening to our concerns, the government continued to prop up a registry that penalizes long gun owners including trained, legal, law-abiding hunters, farmers and recreational sports shooters. Now that the recent spate of gun crime has reached critical proportions, and the flow of illegal guns across the border has resulted in the carnage we have witnessed in Toronto and elsewhere, the federal government suddenly creates a plan that is hauntingly similar to what we have been urging them to adopt all along. If the federal government is serious about addressing the issue of gun crime on our streets, and responding to the threat posed to public safety by the flow of illegal handguns being smuggled in from the U.S. and bought on street corners solely for the purpose of committing crimes, they should continue to follow the path outlined in their recent announcement and stop wasting time and money in their pursuit of hunters, sports shooters and farmers who are not now, nor have they ever been the problem. Greg Farrent Government Relations Manager Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters Peterborough ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:56:07 -0600 (CST) From: Breitkreuz@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca, Garry - Assistant 1 Subject: VETERAN MOUNTIE RUNNING IN SPRUCE GROVE PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun DATE: 2005.12.01 EDITION: Final SECTION: News PAGE: 36 ILLUSTRATION: photo o BRAD ENGE Knew Roszko BYLINE: DOUG BEAZLEY, EDMONTON SUN WORD COUNT: 348 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ VETERAN MOUNTIE RUNNING IN SPRUCE GROVE - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Blizzards, icy sidewalks, minus-30 windchill, angry dogs and even angrier voters. Bring 'em on. Once you've dealt with James Roszko, running as a federal Liberal in Alberta is a walk in the park. In a deft bit of political casting, the Liberals have recruited a 22-veteran of the RCMP to run against Conservative caucus star Rona Ambrose in Edmonton-Spruce Grove. A YEAR IN MAYERTHORPE Brad Enge, a Metis lawyer originally from Yellowknife, started his career with the RCMP's anti-terrorism task force, and spent a year in the late '70s with the Mayerthorpe detachment keeping a close eye on the infamous cop killer Roszko. "My first encounter with Roszko was a routine traffic stop. His attitude was disdainful, confrontational - he didn't like police very much," said Enge. "You always had to be very calm and professional around him, because he'd try to provoke you." Enge said Roszko, who was in his late teens-early 20s during Enge's short stint in Mayerthorpe, frequently would follow him home from work. "He'd drive really slow behind me at night, just to let me know he knew where I lived. He knew I knew it was him." Once, late in Enge's term in Mayerthorpe, Roszko dumped a bag of sugar into his gas tank in full view of witnesses. "He was convicted of mischief for that one." Roszko's pattern of confronting police was common knowledge in Mayerthorpe. But Enge said he could never have predicted Roszko's deadly March 5 rifle ambush which left four Mayerthorpe Mounties dead at his acreage. "I couldn't believe it. I never thought he'd escalate to the point of actually murdering police," he said. "I knew Const. (Peter) Schiemann through my work as a lawyer. He was the quintessential police officer - a true gentleman." Enge spent 1976 with the RCMP's anti-terrorism unit in Ottawa, analysing intelligence on terrorist groups operating on Canadian soil. He transferred west in 1976. 'YOU CAN'T PREDICT' Despite his personal links with Mayerthorpe, Enge said he disagrees with the thrust of a lobbying campaign launched by the families of the slain officers to press for tougher parole conditions. "This is a very emotional situation. But you can't predict the behaviour of individuals, decide who's likely to kill and who isn't," he said. "The majority of people on federal parole don't commit fresh crimes." Enge does back the Martin government's recent push to impose heavier criminal penalties for gun crimes. He also supports the $2-billion gun registry - although he acknowledges Ottawa could have done a better job of controlling costs. And he endorses the feds' aborted push to decriminalize marijuana. "Too many lives have been ruined by a conviction for small-scale possession," he said. "It's the right thing to do." ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #698 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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