From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #829 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, December 27 2005 Volume 08 : Number 829 In this issue: Global national "handgun backfire" segment [EDITORIAL] Gun control save lives Editorial PMs aren't required to defer to judges Re: Million gun march Re: [EDITORIAL] Gun control save lives [2002] Gun Control Laws Cutting Suicide Rate: Re: Million gun march Antoon Leenaars - Background Info Lester+Leenaars - Google Search Re: [EDITORIAL] Gun control save lives Help with old-fashioned scope mounts!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:52:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Global national "handgun backfire" segment Global National out of Toronto just ran a segment on how Big Paulie's handgun ban has backfired on him, by increasing handgun sales dramatically. It's surprisingly almost "pro-gun", at least as pro-gun s the liberal biased media can ever get. Very good interviews with The Shooter's Edge and another gun shop owner, and a shooting club member. Talked about how handguns are just flying off the shelves and how orders are backed up with suppliers and manufacturers. Talked about how the handgun "ban" won't have the desired effect. No sign of Windy Wendy! You should be able to download an .mp3 format version of the audio portion of the whole broadcast at: http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/podcast/index.html Click on the "Pod" icon, and then find the link to today's broadcast, which should be in the fomat "GN051227.mp3". You'll have to copy and past this into your browser's 'download manager' if you have one: You might be able to just point at this link and click "save as" (once the program itself is uploaded to their site): http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/podcastbeta/GN051227.mp3 Either way, it's worth a listen. Yours under Tyranny in Lieberal Occupied Kanuckistan, Bruce Hamilton Ontario Ban Liberals, Not Guns! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:05:50 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: [EDITORIAL] Gun control save lives http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=8d533643- 51db-427c-8cfe-009344fa8dee Gun control save lives Jeff White National Post Tuesday, December 27, 2005 Mothers shielded children outside a Toronto daycare on Dec. 23 as bullets flew -- and as father Cordell Skinner, 25, was shot dead in front of his family. Mr. Cordell is the 51st gun-related homicide in Toronto this year. The liberal Toronto Star immediately published the police's description of suspects -- deleting, as per that paper's policy, any reference to their skin colour. While the left keeps labouring to reconcile the doctrine of human equality with reality, the right struggles to maintain its own myth. I refer to the oft-repeated dogma that the population can be divided into "criminals" and "law-abiding citizens" who choose their respective fates of their own free will. In this vein, right-wing editorialists confidently assert that crime can be stopped by jailing said criminals, presumably for life, while leaving guns safely in the hands of law-abiding hunters and home defenders. But those regular guys regularly supply several hundred homicides a year -- not to mention a far greater number of suicides. The damned are not all in Toronto's Jane-Finch area -- some are on your block, perhaps in your house. Some are as ordinary as the men who got away with vehicular murder before the mother of a dead 13-year-old made DUI socially unacceptable by starting Mothers Against Drunk Driving. One of the key lobbyists behind the much-derided gun registry, Heidi Rathjen, learned that lesson the hard way at the age of 22. On Dec. 6, 1989, her Montreal engineering school was visited by a man whose only distinction was a talent for target shooting. She cowered in a classroom for 45 minutes while Marc Lepine used his Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic rifle on 14 of her classmates and himself. He had a gun permit, but no criminal record. Ordinary guys who snap are, of course, the stuff of cliches and jokes. In June, 2002, Milwaukee tow-truck driver Peter Kiss bought a 45-calibre Glock semi-automatic pistol, delayed slightly by a two-day "cooling-off" period. He then smuggled it across the border at the Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls and used it to kill his former girlfriend in Grimsby, Ont. At a house down the street, he found her six-year-old daughter in bed with her grandmother. He killed them and the grandfather, then himself. It could be argued Kiss was determined to bring the American right to bear arms to Canada and nothing could stop him. Even if Glock founder Gaston Glock, National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre and arms-industry protector George W. Bush all were seized by a simultaneous epiphany of remorse, Kiss would still have found a gun somehow. Maybe. But over millions of people, if we make dealing out death more difficult and time-consuming, some desperate souls may find themselves still alive when their sense of crisis dissipates. If only death had been a little more difficult for the Coaldale, Alta., 17-year-old who in 2002 argued with a teacher, went home, pried his stepfather's shotgun out of a locked cabinet and killed himself with it. Confirmation of this hypothesis would be pretty important, given that 80% of Canadian gun deaths are classed as suicide -- and are often accompanied by murders that no prison sentence can deter. So take note that Canadian suicide expert Antoon Leenaars, working with U.S. and Hungarian colleagues, has indeed confirmed it. They found in 2003 that Canada's landmark 1977 gun-control law significantly reduced total suicide rates, both when compared with a projection of the previous upward trend and, in an independent analysis, when six social factors were controlled for. Separately, Leenaars and U.S. psychologist David Lester have found that the 1977 law also cut into total homicide rates, even after controlling for the six social influences. And in 2004, Stephen Bridges of the University of West Florida published evidence that Canada's 1991 and 1995 gun-control laws, passed in the wake of Marc Lepine's 1989 Montreal massacre and suicide, have had a further impact on both homicide and suicide. Not long after the Montreal tragedy, the president of the Quebec Wildlife Federation told Rathjen he didn't give a damn about any gun victims -- he just wanted to stop her stupid controls. What incenses hunters such as him to this day is not the paperwork they now have to do, or the billion-dollar cost of Rathjen's gun registry. It is the implication that homicide is not the sole province of "criminals" but of you, me -- and them. An annoyed handgun target shooter asked the Post this month why Martin was targeting "a law-abiding Canadian such as myself?" Because no less than 40% of Canadian homicides are carried out by law-abiding citizens with no criminal record. Because no less than 76% of homicides are carried out by family members, boyfriends or non-criminal acquaintances of the victim. Because a law-abiding, mild-mannered accountant belonging to the Barnet Rifle Club in Port Moody, B.C., used his .40-calibre semi-automatic handgun and .38-calibre revolver to shoot his wife and eight in-laws. Because a law-abiding hunter shot four former co-workers with his Remington .30-06 hunting rifle in Ottawa. Rathjen could have looked away -- as do so many of us -- after she escaped the Montreal massacre. But she chose to spend years enduring harassment and threats, and gunshots left on her voicemail. The hatred has only intensified since she and her friends managed to push through the gun registry. And the regular guys who opposed it have turned out to be absolutely right -- thus far, men from their law-abiding ranks have seen 16,000 gun licences revoked or refused. The reasons include past violence, mental illness, posing a risk to oneself or others, unsafe gun use or storage, drug use, etc. All the stuff millions of regular guys are famous for. They aren't all caught. Two weeks ago, a hunter in Laval, Que., allegedly used a .338 hunting rifle to send a bullet through a wall -- and into the late Constable Valerie Gignac. With up to 11 million guns lying around this country, the wonder is that crimes like that don't happen more often. But when an Ottawa man threatened to kill his co-workers, the gun registry was there to warn police he had a high-powered military weapon, also able to pierce walls. When another man threatened to shoot up his workplace in Atlantic Canada, the registry warned police he had nine guns. Tragedies may have been prevented in these cases -- and thousands of others like them. That's part of the reason Canada's gun death rate is half what it was in 1979. No wonder Canada's chiefs of police, like most Canadians, support both gun control and tougher violent-crime sentences. In a failure of democracy, that combo isn't even on the menu come Jan. 23. © National Post 2005 jwhite@nationalpost.com Jeff White is a National Post editor who has written on criminal justice issues since 1999. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:06:27 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Editorial PMs aren't required to defer to judges PMs aren't required to defer to judges The Gazette Tuesday, December 27, 2005 What can you call the attitude that leads Prime Minister Paul Martin to say anyone who disagrees with him about same-sex marriage is not fit to lead the country? That's the eye-opening claim Martin made 10 days ago, in a speech in Vancouver: " ... if the Charter of Rights is there to protect us, then we look to the prime minister of the country to protect the charter. And in my view, if you won't protect the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, then you have no business trying to become prime minister." Before we start enumerating the things wrong with this claim, let's be clear: In The Gazette's view, the Civil Marriage Act, passed last summer legitimizing same-sex marriage, is sound policy for Canada and should be maintained. That said, it's not easy to understand Martin's position here. He seems to be saying the Charter trumps all argument and, therefore, any debate about this is now wrong. Rights are rights are rights and no would-be prime minister has the moral authority to challenge or question such rights. But it was courts, not legislatures, that declared same-sex marriage to be a Charter right. As recently as 1999, Parliament voted 216-55 for the traditional definition of marriage. The text of the Charter is mute on sexual orientation. The Supreme Court, in the reference-case decision of December 2004, endorsed lower-court rulings: Same-sex marriage is now a Charter right. Supreme Court justices are appointed by the prime minister. So Martin seems to be saying you're not fit to be prime minister, running the legislative branch of government, unless you are prepared to defer unquestioningly to judges appointed by prime ministers. We're getting dizzy. There's more: Martin was attacking Harper's carefully limited campaign promise to allow a free vote on repeal of the Liberals' Civil Marriage Act. Martin charged bluntly that repealing this law - ending same-sex marriage - would violate the Charter of Rights. But would it? In the reference case, the high court prudently declined to rule on the legality, under the Charter, of traditional marriage law. So perhaps repeal of same-sex marriage, in the utterly unlikely event that such a measure got through Parliament, would violate the Charter. Perhaps not. Only the Supremes, including the ones named by Martin, could say. Harper's free-vote plan brings to mind the fact no party caucus has been unanimous on this issue. Reminded that 34 inconvenient Liberal MPs voted against the Civil Marriage Act, Martin clarified his position: only party leaders must pass the litmus test of fidelity to the judges' opinions of what the Charter means. He forgets Liberal MP Joe Comuzzi, who actually quit cabinet rather than vote for the bill, as Martin insisted ministers do. So, apparently, you're unfit for cabinet office, as well as the prime ministry, if you won't defer to the courts. The point is the country remains quite divided on the issue. Even with a just and sensible law now in place, trying to stifle discussion is unhealthy. Harper kept his cool through all this, saying only the right to disagree on issues is fundamental to democracy. This, at least, seems like something reasonable people should all be able to agree on. © The Gazette (Montreal) 2005 Copyright © 2005 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:44:00 -0600 (CST) From: br8boss@xcelco.on.ca Subject: Re: Million gun march > Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:25:45 -0600 (CST) > From: "Ross" > Subject: Million gun march > Any takers, or as usual will this be a lobne voice in the universe I am interested.. Hugh Evers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:43:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: Re: [EDITORIAL] Gun control save lives - ----- Original Message ----- > Confirmation of this hypothesis would be pretty important, given that 80% > of Canadian gun deaths are classed as suicide -- and are often accompanied > by murders that no prison sentence can deter. So take note that Canadian > suicide expert Antoon Leenaars, working with U.S. and Hungarian colleagues, > has indeed confirmed it. They found in 2003 that Canada's landmark 1977 > gun-control law significantly reduced total suicide rates, both when > compared with a projection of the previous upward trend and, in an > independent analysis, when six social factors were controlled for. > > Separately, Leenaars and U.S. psychologist David Lester have found that the > 1977 law also cut into total homicide rates, even after controlling for the > six social influences. And in 2004, Stephen Bridges of the University of > West Florida published evidence that Canada's 1991 and 1995 gun-control > laws, passed in the wake of Marc Lepine's 1989 Montreal massacre and > suicide, have had a further impact on both homicide and suicide. Anyone heard of this "Antoon Leenaars" guy, or either of his "studies"? Has anyone taken a look at his work to determine how biased it is? I don't recall ever hearing about him before now. I think that if his work were any good, the gun grabbers would have been shouting it from the rooftops long before now. > Not long after the Montreal tragedy, the president of the Quebec Wildlife > Federation told Rathjen he didn't give a damn about any gun victims -- he > just wanted to stop her stupid controls. What incenses hunters such as him > to this day is not the paperwork they now have to do, or the billion-dollar > cost of Rathjen's gun registry. It is the implication that homicide is not > the sole province of "criminals" but of you, me -- and them. Can anyone confirm that this statement was indeed made? What an asshole this guy is. Yours under Tyranny in Lieberal Occupied Kanuckistan, Bruce Hamilton Ontario From My Cold, Dead Hands! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:00:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Bruce Mills" Subject: [2002] Gun Control Laws Cutting Suicide Rate: Here's a news article from 2002, when this study was first announced: http://www.galleryofguns.com/Shootingtimes/Articles/displayarticles.asp?id= 2962 Gun Control Laws Cutting Suicide Rate: Study Factored in Effects of Divorce, Unemployment Edmonton Journal (Canada); Final Edition; Credit: Ottawa Citizen; Pg. A6 Category: News Center September 15, 2002 Ottawa - Canadian gun control laws are effective in curbing suicide, according to a new study to be presented today in Britain. The study, led by an internationally-recognized suicide prevention expert, is being offered as the best evidence yet that restrictions on guns lead to a decline in suicides. Although past studies have also demonstrated declines with gun control, the results are often criticized by researchers and anti-gun control lobbyists for ignoring other influences that could be responsible for the drop. The latest study headed by Canadian psychologist Antoon Leenaars examines those influences and still concludes that gun laws clearly push suicide deaths and rates down. "It is the first time anybody has ever done it," Leenaars said in an interview. "What we have found in this study is that regardless of all these socioeconomic factors, the gun control laws still hold effect," he said. "Gun control is making the means less available." Leenaars, a Windsor, Ont. psychologist and a former president of suicide prevention associations in both Canada and the United States, presents the findings today at the Ninth European Symposium on Suicide and Suicidal Behaviour. The study compared suicide deaths and rates in Canada in the years before and after gun control came into effect with Bill C-51 in 1978. The new law required permits for guns, set out regulations for safe handling and storage, and strengthened penalties for firearms offences. "After the passage and enforcement of Bill C-51, the firearm suicide rate in Canada and the percentage of suicides using firearms both showed a significant decreasing trend," the study says. "If individuals did switch from firearms to other methods for suicide after 1977, this tendency did not increase from 1978 to 1985. Indeed, by 1985 both the firearm suicide rate and the suicide rate by all other methods were at the lowest values since 1977." The study factored in other influences beyond the law like unemployment, divorce, and income and concludes that suicides with guns still decreased. The study found that gun control has had more of an influence on suicidal women than men -- males are more likely to kill themselves another way if a gun is not available. It also showed that gun control is more effective in keeping young people from taking their own lives than it is for those over age 55. "The young people are very impulsive in their act," Leenaars said. "The elderly tend to be more determined." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:00:47 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: Million gun march I expect this will all depend on the outcome of the election. The Liberals have already written us off. To this end a large demonstration, any demonstration, will not actually achieve anything unless everyone is willing to file past the steps of parliament and tear up their credit cards. Yup, that's right credit cards. That will get the attention of the financial institutions and that might get the attention of the Liberals. If the Tories form the government perhaps a demonstration is in order. To keep their feet to the fire if they should begin to stray. Either that or one hell of a write in campaign to make sure they keep the faith. Don't forget the Tory balance sheet is nice and fat thanks to the duckets of the little guys. just a thought. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumpsit Contract - All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:28:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Pook" Subject: Antoon Leenaars - Background Info http://www.aeschiconference.unibe.ch/A.A.Leenaars.htm Antoon A. Leenaars, Ph.D. Dr. Leenaars is a registered psychologist in private practice in Windsor, Canada, and is a member of the Faculty (Dept. of Public Health Sciences) at the Karolinska Institutet, Sweden and was a member of the Faculty at the University of Leiden, The Netherlands. He was the first Past President of the Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention (CASP), and is a past President of the American Association of Suicidology (AAS), the only non-American to date. He has collaborated with 100 colleagues in over 20 nations, and has published over 100 professional articles/chapters on violence, trauma, suicide, homicide, genocide, and related topics. He has published 11 books, including the forthcoming, Psychotherapy with Suicidal People (Wiley), and is Editor-in-Chief of Archives of Suicide Research. Dr. Leenaars is a recipient of The International Association for Suicide Prevention's Stengel Award, CASP's Research Award and AAS's Shneidman Award for outstanding contribution in research in suicidology. He is recognized for his international efforts in suicide prevention, and has served as an expert witness in legal cases dealing with wrongful death, suicide and homicide. SUICIDE: A MULTIDIMENSIONAL MALAISE Psychotherapy with Suicidal People: A Person-Centred Approach Antoon A. Leenaars JOHN WILEY & SONS, LTD, Chichester 2004 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.google.ca/search?q=%22Antoon+Leenaars%22&hl=en&lr=&start=20&sa=N http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&id=1363 http://lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=113027&x=articles&s=societe http://www.uke.uni-hamburg.de/extern/tzs/congress/webpages/sunday_text2.htm l http://www.cpa.ca/factsheets/suicide.htm - ----------------------------------------- http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2000/Sep/Review.asp Background: Suicide and suicidal behaviour are multifaceted events requiring complex solutions. Controlling the environment is a neglected solution, despite strong support for this approach from the World Health Organization (WHO). Methods: To discuss this approach from a global view, this review is written by authors from various cultures: American, Australian, Canadian, Chinese, Cuban, Dutch, Indian, Irish, Japanese, Lithuanian, Native North American, Russian, and South African. Results: We examine gun control to illustrate the environmental control approach; however, the worldwide diversity of suicide methods calls for diverse responses. Further, controlling the environment encompasses more than restricting the means of suicide, which we illustrate with examples of toned-down media reports and restricted medicine availability. Conclusions: Controlling the environment may be a viable strategy for preventing suicide, although research shows that few clinicians implement such approaches. (Can J Psychiatry 2000;45:639-644) Key Words: environment, gun control, international, means restriction, suicide - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:28:41 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Lester+Leenaars - Google Search a load here. http://www.google.com/search?q=Lester%2bLeenaars A. Leenaars, PhD., Ouellette Ave., Suite 7-806, Windsor, Ontario N9A 1c7, Canada Maybe Jim Thacker has heard of him. Have you Jim? __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumpsit Contract - All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:29:29 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: [EDITORIAL] Gun control save lives > >Not long after the Montreal tragedy, the president of the Quebec Wildlife > > Federation told Rathjen he didn't give a damn about any gun victims -- he > > just wanted to stop her stupid controls. What incenses hunters such as > him > > to this day is not the paperwork they now have to do, or the > billion-dollar > > cost of Rathjen's gun registry. It is the implication that homicide is > not > > the sole province of "criminals" but of you, me -- and them. > > Can anyone confirm that this statement was indeed made? > > What an asshole this guy is. This reaction must be related to a comment which was made at the time of the Montreal mess. I saw the interview but I cannot say who the woman was. In essence she blamed men, all men for the killing of the students. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:29:51 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Help with old-fashioned scope mounts!!! Well, if it shoots that good, I would not take it apart. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Get the toothbrush out for cleaning those hard to get at parts, and leave it at that. Alan Harper alan__harper@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #829 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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