From: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #884 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-can-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, January 3 2006 Volume 08 : Number 884 In this issue: Letter Re: Tougher penalties 'don't affect crime level'; Gun Crimes? Check this out on Wendy Sharpen the message Letter not helpfull 12/6 Hearing Flags ... Ex-DC mayor Barry robbed in his home Re: Check this out on Wendy Letter: Ex-Conservative leader should know Re: Flags ... Re: My letter to the Globe and Mail New York Observer Article: NYO - Wise Guys crossing the border Re: Flags ... Re: Check this out on Wendy Re: crossing the border Re: [Bulk] crossing the border ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:12:03 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Letter Re: Tougher penalties 'don't affect crime level'; Letter sent to Hamilton Spectator Jim Bronskill writes "that the reverse-onus measure would require justification under the Charter of Rights, since it appears to run contrary to the presumption of innocence." Give me a break with this high anxiety. Anne McLellan is quoted as saying " "Keep in mind that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not suggest for a minute that any of the rights therein are absolute." As in the case of gay marriage and long gun registration, the Liberal government was very quick to defer to the Supreme Court's decision because it supported the Liberal ideal of Canadian society. Paul Martin's talk of defending all rights is just so much hot air. The Liberals defend the policies that appeal to their view of the world be it gay marriage or gun control. If the Toronto situation is indeed a crisis then it is up to the government to deal with it. The people elect governments, we have no say in the appointment of Supreme Court judges. That is why the Charter agreement was predicated on the existence of the not-withstanding clause. Not-withstanding is not some dirty habit, its a powerful tool that keeps decision making in the hands elected officials who govern at their peril of public opinion. When Liberal appointed judges are too liberal oriented in their approach to a given problem then action is called for either by legislation or the not-withstanding clause. This society belongs to its citizens not Liberal appointment judges. __________ Paul Chicoine Non Assumpsit Contract - All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice ___________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:12:49 -0600 (CST) From: Jaded Junker Subject: Gun Crimes? To: CTV News , I will not do your online survey today ("Should people who are charged with gun crimes face tougher legal penalties?")because the way it is worded. It should be "violent" gun crimes - you see there are a lot of "decent" Canadians, due to improperly worded "surveys" - which are now being charged with _/gun crimes/_ - simply because they will never buy into the Kanadian gun laws as they now are written. Maybe once you Lieberal "academics" who control the mainstream media (as sick as it is!) realize that history does repeat itself and on a fairly regular basis too; then the realization of properly armed citizenry is a mandate for future freedoms - for proper reference - please study "unrevised" history of Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein amongst others. You people in the media ought to be ashamed of yourselves for the way you manipulate the population with your snake charming politically correct reporting (or lack of) of the facts concerning not only my freedoms, but ultimately yours as well. mel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:13:15 -0600 (CST) From: "Ross" Subject: Check this out on Wendy read the portion wher it asks if the client received any government funding...check the answer. http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/ec/lrrs/registrationSummary.do;jsessionid=000 0 sZ2fyCyExg2BpUJIpCQ5MEu:vdd1k0er?browse=1&language=eng®Id=2904 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:48:46 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Sharpen the message From the Jan. 3rd Hamilton Spectator: > As for minimum sentences, several offences committed with a firearm, > including robbery, kidnapping and manslaughter, already carry a > four-year minimum sentence, the result of a Liberal overhaul of > federal gun legislation in the mid-1990s. Experts remain skeptical > that so-called mandatory minimums are an effective deterrent. > > "The fact is that mandatory minimums have been studied and they don't > affect crime levels," said Tony Doob, a University of Toronto > criminologist. > > Doob has not seen evidence, or even heard arguments, that the Ontario > courts are too lenient when it comes to granting bail. Instead, > political leaders should be addressing the circumstances that breed > the conditions for gun violence, such as cuts to social services, he > said. "But that's not as flashy as changing bail laws and mandatory > minimums." From the Jan. 3rd N. Post: > OTTAWA - The federal election campaign restarted in full yesterday > with the Conservatives and Liberals duelling over which party is best > suited to tackle the country's growing gun violence. > > Conservative leader Stephen Harper began the campaign's unofficial > second half with a rally in Ottawa. Mr. Harper's tough-on-crime pitch > was clearly aimed at wooing urban and suburban voters upset over a > spate of gun violence in Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and elsewhere. > > He said the federal Liberals' refusal to implement tougher sentencing > was largely to blame for the rise in violence, and vowed a > Conservative government would move swiftly to require mandatory > sentences for repeat serious offenders. Errrrrr, it's already in the C.C.C. Stephen. I wish CFD folk up on this stuff would send it along to Stephen. Bruce, you had a neat listing of what's in the code and sentences that should have been applied to a Toronto perp. The CPC research staff seem unaware. And if the CPC did some research it'd find that it's the certainty of being captured and the rapidity of being tried and sentenced that is the best deterrent. These malcontents and social deviants are reactors, not reflectors. If you don't 'chain' the punishment closely with the offense it simply has no effect. It's similar to young children or animals. You give these punks a big 'punishment' too distant from the criminal act and they don't connect the reward/punishment with the offense. Elementary learning theory. Research also demonstrates that the most effective 'prevention' program is the age or maturity of the offender which acts against committing more crimes. Have you noted that the born-again-after types that are into counselling offenders are 'experienced' cons who've had 10, 20 or more years in the system - before they wise up to the fact that the negative cost-benefit sinks in? And isn't it like all the parties pushing for reverse-onus bail for gun offenders. Sure to face a Charter challenge. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 12:49:14 -0600 (CST) From: Lee Jasper Subject: Letter not helpfull In the London freeps: > How many more of our innocent children, like beautiful young Jane > Creba, must die before action is taken to strike back at these > murderers? > > This young girl was killed by a gang, not a gun. Don't think the author swayed many voters over to 'our' side. From the newscasts I saw - she was killed with a gun in the possession of a gang member. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:04:17 -0600 (CST) From: Margus Jukkum Subject: 12/6 Hearing On Dec. 28, 2005 I filed for a Section 74 Hearing at the Ontario Provincial Court at 444 Yonge St. on behalf of my wife Marika who is a member of the CSSA using the form downloaded from their twelve/six web page. Since it was Dec. 28 I was getting a little anxious as no letter of refusal had arrived so I also printed out the relevant sections of the criminal code and made copies of the preliminary registered letter from the Firearms Centre stating we had until Dec. 31 to dispose of the handgun in question. The clerk at the court accepted the documents and after a short conference with colleagues at the back of the office handed me a dated and stamped copy of the downloaded form asking for a hearing. He also took my phone number and gave me the phone number of another clerk and told me to call in a couple of days. Shortly after I got home a postman knocked on the door with a registered letter. It was the official Notice of Refusal. I called the number I had on my stamped copy of the downloaded form and talked to a clerk at the court. I asked if they wanted me to re-file for a hearing now that my wife's official Notice of Refusal had arrived. The clerk said that wasn't necessary. She sounded a little stressed and confessed to me that they weren't quite sure how to deal with these applications for a hearing as mine wasn't the only one they had received. She told me she would phone me back after a meeting with her superior. Later that afternoon I received a call from the clerk. She said that there had been a meeting and it had been decided that hearings would only be scheduled for this matter if a formal Motion For A Hearing was presented to the trial coordiantor. She stated that she has no idea how such a motion was to be drawn up and stated that she was not allowed to give out legal advice as the court clerks are a biased party. She told me I should contact a lawyer to get some advice on how to compose a motion. As I work professionally as a sound recordist in the film and television industry both of these conversations were recorded so there is no doubt as to what had transpired. Does anyone on this list know how to draft a formal Motion For A Hearing concerning this matter or is this something I would need a lawyer to do on my behalf on an individual basis? I have until the end of the month of January to submit this motion. Margus Jukkum, Toronto, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:04:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert S. Sciuk" Subject: Flags ... Thus far, I've gotten about 3 positive responses on the inverted flag discussion (all considered responses from respected individuals). While the responses I got were positive, 4 guys flying a flag upside down in Canada will have minimal impact. I guess if this proposal did not resonate very widely on the CFD, it might not in pedestrian land -- and so I'm inclined to drop it. Any others? Positive? Negative? Neutral? Cheers, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:04:43 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: Ex-DC mayor Barry robbed in his home Ex-DC mayor Barry robbed in his home DERRILL HOLLY, ASSOCIATED PRESS, 3 January 2006 WASHINGTON - Former District of Columbia mayor Marion Barry was robbed at gunpoint at his apartment by some youths who had helped him carry his groceries. Barry, who wasn't injured in the Monday night robbery, said he gave the youths a couple of dollars for helping unload groceries from his car and they left. They returned, however, and after Barry let them into his Southeast apartment, they pointed a gun at his head and took his wallet, which contained cash and credit cards, Barry told WRC-TV. "Obviously, I'm traumatized. To have a pistol cocked in your face is not something you cannot feel emotional about," Barry said. Barry, 69, is a member of the city council and served four terms as mayor. In his third term, he was videotaped in 1990 in a hotel room smoking crack cocaine in an FBI sting. The following year, he served a six-month prison sentence. He is awaiting sentencing later this month in federal court on his guilty plea to two misdemeanour counts stemming from his failure to file income tax returns in 2000. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:15:56 -0600 (CST) From: paul chicoine Subject: Re: Check this out on Wendy re Rodier http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2005/week20/ A Rose By 50 Other Names "Did Public Works fund Paul Martin's election campaign?" David Rodier and Irčne Marcheterre both worked at a company called Communication et Strategie (C&S). The listed address and phone number for C&S is the phone number and address for Gosselin Public Relations (a division of Groupaction). Presumably, C&S grew out of Gosselin Public Relations. Both Rodier and Marcheterre were employed by and had email addresses at C&S (drodier@comstrategie.com and imarcheterre@comstrategie.com) and Irčne Marcheterre has been accussed of receiving "dirty" money through the sponsorship scandal. C&S received millions in government contracts for public relations and "events". Both Rodier and Marcheterre have done considerable public relations work for Paul Martin... [...] C&S attempted to obsfucate its tight relationship to Paul Martin and the Liberals by operating under numerous (50+) different company and individual names. Here is an abbreviated listing... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Check this out on Wendy > > read the portion wher it asks if the client received any government > funding...check the answer. > > http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/ec/lrrs/registrationSummary.do;jsessionid=000 > 0 > sZ2fyCyExg2BpUJIpCQ5MEu:vdd1k0er?browse=1&language=eng®Id=2904 > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.11/219 - Release Date: 02/01/06 > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:34:50 -0600 (CST) From: owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Majordomo User) Subject: Letter: Ex-Conservative leader should know PUBLICATION: The Whitehorse Star DATE: 2005.12.27 SECTION: Opinion PAGE: 8 COLUMN: Letters to the editor WORD COUNT: 33 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ex-Conservative leader should know - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: No credible leaders. Joe Who (former prime minister Joe Clark) claims that there are "no credible leaders" amongst the three opposition parties. Since it would take one to know one, I guess that would make him an expert on the subject. Bruce N. Mills Dundas, Ont. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:38:19 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: Flags ... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert S. Sciuk" > Thus far, I've gotten about 3 positive responses on the inverted flag > discussion (all considered responses from respected individuals). While > the responses I got were positive, 4 guys flying a flag upside down in > Canada will have minimal impact. > > I guess if this proposal did not resonate very widely on the CFD, it might > not in pedestrian land -- and so I'm inclined to drop it. Any others? > Positive? Negative? Neutral? On the surface its a good idea.But most peons in Kanuckistan would consider it an insult to the flag , in my opinion, and therefore an insult to them ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:39:07 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: My letter to the Globe and Mail - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Mills" > Then again, according to liberal doctrine, the rights of law abiding gun > owners don't matter, just those of criminals. The rights of no one lese but criminals matters in la la Kanuckistan. I heard on CHML900, this after noon that 35,000 criminals in Fed prisons have already stated that they will vote Liberal ? Primarily they said, they dont want to lose their Club Feds,golf courses,tv ,and other perks like day passes. Remember it was the Liberal appointed SCC who gave these bottom feeders the right to vote .. This is something that should be brought to the attention of Harper as ammunition, and the harworking little guy, so they can really see what the Lieberals are all about/ ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:39:34 -0600 (CST) From: Cap'n ECO Subject: New York Observer Article: NYO - Wise Guys Sounds familiar to me............... http://www.observer.com/opinions_wiseguys.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:16:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: crossing the border A friend recently crossed the border to the US. He got searched pretty thoroughly and treated much like he was a criminal, although he has no criminal record. Then, they let him proceed, after an hour of searching him and his car, without any explanation. They were polite, however. One of the questions asked was "Have you ever been arrested?" He was annoyed at having to explain, in detail, some peccadillo, which was over 30 years ago. What rights does a Canadian citizen have at the US border? He understands that the border personnel have a job to do, but is a search lasting an hour reasonable? And what about that question, "Have you ever been arrested?" Just how much detail is required from a person? Alan Harper Life National Firearms Association Life Canadian Shooting Sports Association triggermortis@cogeco.ca SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM (if you seek peace, prepare for war) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:17:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim S." Subject: Re: Flags ... Robert/ mred - Trying to choose symbols is always a chancy business. Don't give up. If people fly the Maple Leaf upside down because THEY feel distressed, then that is there business. On the other hand, something more positive might come along which would emphasize the positive aspects of firearms ownership rather than the negative aspect of Government. For myself, wearing something which is associated with a shooting association - CSSA, OFAH, the various provincial associations or NFA is another way of making a statement about where I stand. I've got a number of nice NFA shirts that I enjoy wearing. The looks that people give me when they see "firearms" in the logo is always worth the time and effort. Invariably, they tend to treat me with more courtesy, and I'm always careful to be very courteous in return, as I'm well aware that one becomes an ambassador of the shooting sports when wearing this kind of clothing. Heck, if someone put together something promoting the CFD, I'd be proud to wear it everywhere. Has anyone thought of that? Jim Szpajcher St. Paul, AB. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:28:50 -0600 (CST) From: 10x <10x@telus.net> Subject: Re: Check this out on Wendy At 01:15 PM 1/3/06 -0600, you wrote: > > >re Rodier >http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2005/week20/ >A Rose By 50 Other Names > >"Did Public Works fund Paul Martin's election campaign?" > > >David Rodier and Ir=E8ne Marcheterre both worked at a company called >Communication et Strategie (C&S). The listed address and phone number for >C&S is the phone number and address for Gosselin Public Relations (a >David Rodier> and even more... http://705blue.blogspot.com/2005/05/martins-election-organizer_27.html Friday, May 27, 2005 Martin's Election Organizer--Groupaction's Rodier David Rodier, directly connected to the disgraced "sponsorship fraud" firm Groupaction, organized the entire leg of Paul Martin's Quebec campaign tour last year. David Rodier worked at a central company in the sponsorship fraud--Gosselin Public Relations (a division of Groupaction). Rodier went with the company when it was sold and did business under the name "C&S". Serge Pacquette, former federal Liberal candidate, and current Director at Foreign Affairs led "C&S". Paquette's C&S has two listings on the National Lobby Registry--one for "C&S" and the other for "C ET S". If anyone thinks it's a simple mistake, the "error" is carried over to Public Works--where the same company was awarded government contracts under two different legal names--C&S and C ET S! A recent audit found companies under the C&S umbrella funnelled hundreds of thousands of dollars into the Liberal Party and it's candidates--including Paul Martin's Liberal leadership race. Another of Paquette's C&S former employees was Irene Marcheterre, currently aid to our Federal Transport Minister, who worked closely with Rodier--even on the same client file. Marcheterre was recently named in the news as one of the Liberal campaign workers who accepted dirty sponsorship money under the table according to the testimony of a Liberal whistle-blower. The Martin government has set Gomery's frame of reference to investigate the sponsorship program and the government's advertising activities--not election fraud. Gomery will end up simply making recommendations about the Sponsorship Program, a program that has already been cancelled. The Government refuses to answer questions until Gomery is finished, saying Gomery "needs to do his work". By the time Gomery's work is done, the criminal trials of Liberals charged in the scandal will have begun. Liberals refusing to answer questions now because of Gomery will refuse to answer them in the future because of the criminal proceedings. The Liberals will point to the Gomery report for absolution when Gomery never had the scope to find to the truth. The RCMP needs to investigate--not just fraud in the sponsorship scandal, but Election Fraud perpetrated by the Liberal Party. They need to investigate before the parties involved stall until the statute of limitations has expired and justice will never be served. We need to ensure no one; no group of people; and no political party can ever do this again. Canadians constitutional right to a free and fair election was systematically violated and there needs to be an accounting in the name of democracy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:39:22 -0600 (CST) From: "mred" Subject: Re: crossing the border - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trigger Mortis" >A friend recently crossed the border to the US. He got searched pretty > thoroughly and treated much like he was a criminal, although he has no > criminal record. Then, they let him proceed, after an hour of searching > him > and his car, without any explanation. They were polite, however. > > One of the questions asked was "Have you ever been arrested?" He was > annoyed at having to explain, in detail, some peccadillo, which was over > 30 > years ago.> Alan Harper > Life National Firearms Association > Life Canadian Shooting Sports Association You are a foriegn national with no rights under the antiterrorism act same as any US citizen. I was asked if I had ever been fingerprinted in September in International Falls Minnesota? and I told them yes about 50 years ago when I bought a handgun?Thats when they took your finger prints , sent them ionto the Mounties and when they came back ok you got your hand gun/ He wanted to know if I had any guns with me and I said no .Then he wanted to know if I had any alcohol with me (going into the US) I said yes bought 2 bottles in Minn on the way up to Ontario. He checked the trunk for about 15 seconds and we were on our way. What amazed me last summer was the INS was checking cars leaving the US at Niagara Falls NY.Only US plated cars though ? ed/ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:39:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert P." Subject: Re: [Bulk] crossing the border The same thing happened to me when I went stateside this summer. Spent 20 minutes explaining to them about an incident from 10 years ago. From now on I guess I will have to bring a copy of the letter stating no conviction, no fine, all clear, no record. I don't dare bring a rifle with me any more. I have carried a rifle in my vehicle since I was old enough to drive. I have taken it across the Canada-US boarder lots of times. However with the growing paranoia I don't know if I want to take the chance any more. However I will continue to do so in Canada. Always have - always will. Ahhh but for the good old days of inter-border travel. Screw C-68 Gun control is at the end of my hand. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V8 #884 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:akimoya@cogeco.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v04.n192 end (192 is the digest issue number and 04 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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